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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:12:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: odiedodi]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FennRx: Post war consensus is cracking |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:26:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JAD762]
[#2]
What’s going on is people rightly lost confidence in traditional news sources and instead of doing the hard work of seeking out unbiased sources, uncritically hitched their wagons to legitimate shitheads.
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:29:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: What’s going on is people rightly lost confidence in traditional news sources and instead of doing the hard work of seeking out unbiased sources, uncritically hitched their wagons to legitimate shitheads. There's literally no such thing as an unbiased source. The trick is to spot the bias and to always keep it in mind. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:35:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: What’s going on is people rightly lost confidence in traditional news sources and instead of doing the hard work of seeking out unbiased sources, uncritically hitched their wagons to legitimate shitheads. Not only that, they've lost faith in most "experts" to the point they don't trust anything. People don't seem to want to do the work themselves so they end up believing whatever crackpot fits their worldview. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:36:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: The "ww2 wasn't Hitler's fault" narrative is retarded. But it totally plays into the modern political realism narrative. It's Polands fault for being "unreasonable" and not giving up Danzig to the real player, Germany. It's Britain's fault that Germany had to set up all those death camps. Absolute fucking retardation.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By FivespeedF150: The expression "break the internet" has been bandied about forever, usually as an attempt to convince people soemthing is already viral. But Darryl's stance on Churchill / Hitler, communicated on Tucker's show, has sent the rightwing twitterverse into a bit of a circular firing squad. The "ww2 wasn't Hitler's fault" narrative is retarded. But it totally plays into the modern political realism narrative. It's Polands fault for being "unreasonable" and not giving up Danzig to the real player, Germany. It's Britain's fault that Germany had to set up all those death camps. Absolute fucking retardation. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:36:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SkullFarmer: There's literally no such thing as an unbiased source. The trick is to spot the bias and to always keep it in mind. The beautiful thing about the internet, you have access to loads of source material so you can check stuff yourself. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:38:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By benbob: Kind of hard to do that when two countries declare war on you. We didn't declare war on Germany, Hitler thought Japan would attack Russia if Germany declared war on the US. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By benbob: Originally Posted By firedog51d: The west should have stayed out of it. Churchill and Roosevelt both are guilty. Kind of hard to do that when two countries declare war on you. We didn't declare war on Germany, Hitler thought Japan would attack Russia if Germany declared war on the US. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:42:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: What’s going on is people rightly lost confidence in traditional news sources and instead of doing the hard work of seeking out unbiased sources, uncritically hitched their wagons to legitimate shitheads. Were traditional news sources worthy of our confidence during WW2? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:44:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SkullFarmer: There's literally no such thing as an unbiased source. The trick is to spot the bias and to always keep it in mind. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SkullFarmer: Originally Posted By JAD762: What’s going on is people rightly lost confidence in traditional news sources and instead of doing the hard work of seeking out unbiased sources, uncritically hitched their wagons to legitimate shitheads. There's literally no such thing as an unbiased source. The trick is to spot the bias and to always keep it in mind. People who embrace epistemological relativism like to say that, but they always lack the discernment needed to do it. It’s almost like they’re using it as a smokescreen to justify listening to shitheads. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:46:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Hitler had two goals. Eliminate European Jews. Conquer and colonize the east. If Poland had knuckled under and surrendered Danzig, Germany would have manufactured a reason to attack it anyways. Because they had already agreed on how they were going to split it up with the Soviets in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Moreover, Nazi ideology literally saw the dilution of "Aryan blood" as a crisis of national survival. They were no more going to allow Jews to live in Poland than they were Vichy France. Moreover, those Poles were taking up valuable living space that proper Aryans were meant to colonize, later. All this stuff is widely documented. Hitlers aims were no secret. The "warmonger Churchill" stuff is lame. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By ras_al_ghul: I had no idea he was a member here. Very interesting. I listened to the Tucker interview. Didn't completely agree with everything, did not think it was nearly as contro as everyone is making it out to be. I think it's possible that both sides were kinda bad in WW2. One was worse. After the appeasement failures, where Hitler promised not to attack Poland but did anyway, Britain had every right to assume Hitler was lying about everything when he was trying to allegedly make peace with Britain. You can't do business or have relationship with someone you can't trust, and Britain had no leverage to force him to keep any agreement. That's 100 percent on Hitler and the German government. Doesn't make Churchill a saint, but I wouldn't call him the villain either. Hitler had two goals. Eliminate European Jews. Conquer and colonize the east. If Poland had knuckled under and surrendered Danzig, Germany would have manufactured a reason to attack it anyways. Because they had already agreed on how they were going to split it up with the Soviets in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Moreover, Nazi ideology literally saw the dilution of "Aryan blood" as a crisis of national survival. They were no more going to allow Jews to live in Poland than they were Vichy France. Moreover, those Poles were taking up valuable living space that proper Aryans were meant to colonize, later. All this stuff is widely documented. Hitlers aims were no secret. The "warmonger Churchill" stuff is lame. Those Polish areas in dispute had been Prussian for hundreds of years. Hitler would still have attacked Poland to use as a staging area to attack the USSR. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 3:51:33 PM EDT
[#11]
I find it alarming that there are people who believe the steaming pile of dog shit coming out of that guy's mouth.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:01:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Hitler didn't want war with the Uk or France. Even after taking France he tried for peace with the uk.
Doesn't make him some sort of peace maker. His diplomat and the uk diplomat were not very clear to each other on Poland. Big mistake. Just like napoleon, Europe was not going to accept him. And for good reason. He had his chance for peace. He proved he wanted resources and powerand would use war to get it. Fuck him and fuck Stalin. Both were pure evil. And fuck Roosevelt too for giving the soviets more than the bare minimum. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:09:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: It's not exactly new information that Stalin was a shitbag and that lots of people saw the threat he in particular and the Soviet government in general posed to the rest of the world. But none of that makes Hitler the fucking good guy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: Originally Posted By fishbit: http://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED275/6218598e898db.jpeg It's not exactly new information that Stalin was a shitbag and that lots of people saw the threat he in particular and the Soviet government in general posed to the rest of the world. But none of that makes Hitler the fucking good guy. Exactly. That Patton quote doesn't somehow = "Hitler wasn't really that bad." They were both maniacal shitbags who wanted half the world to burn to achieve their goals. Stop listening to dumbasses like Darryl Cooper talk out of his ass. Even an amateur historian could shredd his retarded claims. |
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SGP
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:14:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayfaerer320: I find it alarming that there are people who believe the steaming pile of dog shit coming out of that guy's mouth. 
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:18:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madcap3k: Hitler didn't want war with the Uk or France. Even after taking France he tried for peace with the uk. Doesn't make him some sort of peace maker. That's why Darryl Cooper is an idiot. Hitler wanted peace with the UK quite simply so they'd stay out of his fucking way (so he could go about liquidating Eastern Europe of "undesirables" and making room for the expansion of the Reich). |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:22:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By firedog51d: If France and Great Britain had stayed out of the invasion of Poland, Hitler would not have gone to war with the west. We could have sat back and supplied both sides while Nazis and Commies killed each other. The ultimate win/win. I think you're missing what Hitler thought he was doing. He wasn't fighting to "save Germany." He was fighting to save the Aryan race from being diluted by international Jewry. Capitalism and Communism were both Jewish schemes to destroy the Aryans in Hitlers mind. "Oh but Hitler wanted to ally Britain! He wouldn't have gone after them!" I hear you say. Yeah...just like he totally didn't backstab the Soviets. The Nazis absolutely would have attacked the west. The failure of the west was not that it helped crush the Nazis but that it didn't then crush the Communists in turn. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:24:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayfaerer320: That's why Darryl Cooper is an idiot. Hitler wanted peace with the UK quite simply so they'd stay out of his fucking way (so he could go about liquidating Eastern Europe of "undesirables" and making room for the expansion of the Reich). Yep. Hard to buy oil from Venezuela or the USA unless the British Royal Navy allows it, too. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:24:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By odiedodi: I only listened to a small portion of it, and otherwise have never heard of him, but I didn't hear anything that immediately jumped out as untrue. I think he may be soft balling Hitler too much, but Winston Churchill was not a good guy himself. I don't see why I should have to kiss his ass, while rightfully shitting on FDR is socially acceptable on the right. If you really want to have a fun time we can talk about all of the good things Mussolini did, like abolishing slavery in Ethiopia and refusing to turn Jews over to Hitler. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By odiedodi: Originally Posted By wayfaerer320: I find it alarming that there are people who believe the steaming pile of dog shit coming out of that guy's mouth. Winston Churchill wasn't some sort of saint - he was human and had his flaws - absolutely. I just find it bizarre that people try to use that and then spin Hitler as "not that bad" because Churchill wasn't perfect. Because that's just retarded. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:26:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Yep. Hard to buy oil from Venezuela or the USA unless the British Royal Navy allows it, too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By wayfaerer320: That's why Darryl Cooper is an idiot. Hitler wanted peace with the UK quite simply so they'd stay out of his fucking way (so he could go about liquidating Eastern Europe of "undesirables" and making room for the expansion of the Reich). Yep. Hard to buy oil from Venezuela or the USA unless the British Royal Navy allows it, too. Absolutely. That's exactly why Hitler wanted peace with England - the Royal Navy getting in his way. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:29:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FuriousYachtsman: Were traditional news sources worthy of our confidence during WW2? In between today and the Spanish American war news sources were impeccable. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:30:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By firedog51d: If France and Great Britain had stayed out of the invasion of Poland, Hitler would not have gone to war with the west. We could have sat back and supplied both sides while Nazis and Commies killed each other. The ultimate win/win. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By firedog51d: Originally Posted By benbob: Originally Posted By firedog51d: The west should have stayed out of it. Churchill and Roosevelt both are guilty. Kind of hard to do that when two countries declare war on you. We didn't declare war on Germany, Hitler thought Japan would attack Russia if Germany declared war on the US. Big If True. Too bad all the available evidence says the opposite. I also enjoy imagining a fantasy alternative to real history sometimes. I just don't tell everybody ACTUALLY that's what really happened. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 4:38:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: It's not exactly new information that Stalin was a shitbag and that lots of people saw the threat he in particular and the Soviet government in general posed to the rest of the world. But none of that makes Hitler the fucking good guy. History is full of shitbag leaders who murdered their own people or others for one reason or another. The consensus that is changing is what makes mustache man any different? Ghengis Khan killed like, 2/3rds of the world's population at the time, Stalin and Mao starved and murdered millions...but somehow this one guy is the most evil? Darryl Cooper never says Hitler was good. He insinuate that great Britain had an axe to grind, and after being run off the continent, had to do something to get the united states involved. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 5:00:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fulminate: Darryl Cooper never says Hitler was good. He insinuate that great Britain had an axe to grind, and after being run off the continent, had to do something to get the united states involved. Hitler's axe to grind is the reason any of this shit happened at all in the first place. In fact, his axe to grind was so large that he had a train car pulled out of a fucking museum to humiliate the piss out of the French during the surrender formalization. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 5:07:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fulminate: History is full of shitbag leaders who murdered their own people or others for one reason or another. The consensus that is changing is what makes mustache man any different? Ghengis Khan killed like, 2/3rds of the world's population at the time, Stalin and Mao starved and murdered millions...but somehow this one guy is the most evil? They were all terrible human beings. We could argue all day about who was the worst, but this insinuation that "maybe Hitler wasn't that bad afterall" is beyond retarded. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 5:18:22 PM EDT
[#25]
sheeeeeesseeee..
hitler was pure evil. if left alone he would have systematically run 10s of millions of folks thru the ovens. churchill was an interesting person, the tail end of the victorian era british upper class, and the perfect foil for hitler. left alone hitler would have eventually got nukes, and with his other advanced weaponry would have been a lot worse to deal with. he had 'plans' for the united states. his 'plans' for britain involved occupying the country, enslaving the population, bringing them to europe as slaves and replacing them with germans. churchill had his flaws, hitler and the nazis were about as evil as an entire nation could get. i guess its somewhat in vogue now and again, to look at the nazis and say they should have been left alone because they would have taken care of the russians. i guess would have left the japanese alone too as long as the only raped asia and the philippines. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 5:26:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Churchill was a great man. Great men have flaws. Churchill's policies were responsible for the deaths of around three million people in india during the 1943 bengal famine. The policies removed grain from india for the war effort elsewhere, and when they started to experience shortages he refused to send wheat that he wanted to stockpile in case it was needed for the balkans. He is reported to have said that the indians were of little use to the war effort and besides they breed like rats.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 6:49:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayfaerer320: They were all terrible human beings. We could argue all day about who was the worst, but this insinuation that "maybe Hitler wasn't that bad afterall" is beyond retarded. It's a narrative that often relies upon Nazi propaganda as it's primary source. I find it incredibly depressing how normal this take is becoming with self-styled conservatives. 
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:23:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FlashMan-7k]
[#28]
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: I'm not familiar with this dude, but Tucker gave him a 2 hour long interview.
He did the best history podcast of the actual goings on of zionism (not the conspiracy lunatic bs) and the people living in the region of what is now israel. Than he did some more ... and more, and more ... on other topics. Not light stuff. His "thing" such as it may be, is "This is a human. Let's understand how they thought and why they did it." Which really REALLY makes people mad when you apply it to something that's accepted as unquestionable truth. Re: what he said about churchill: He basically pointed up the facts of what churchhill and the brits did and how that kept escalating and escalating and escalating things - even when escalation was not the best route. Cue people outraged and stupid. Also, if you ever dare to say "hitler yelled and picked his foot up because he stepped on a nail and it hurt" people will call a nazi for not saying he's literally satan and that's a lie. This is because most of society at large in the west has thrown out the idea of true pure evil and sin and God's law, and replaced evil with "hitler/nazis and anything we say they did." This has the consequence of making anything more evil than that impossible, and anyone being equally evil who isn't a nazi impossible (think how the left refuses to say the socialists and communists aren't as bad as hitler, when they are reasonably arguably worse). His long series on zionism and the founding of the modern state of israel is 1000% worth the investment in time: https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/Fear_and_Loathing_ep_1.mp3?download=true https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/Fear_and_Loathing_ep_2.mp3?download=true https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/Fear_and_Loathing_ep_3.mp3?download=true https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/Fear_and_Loathing_ep_4.mp3?download=true https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/Episode_5.mp3?download=true https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/Fear_and_Loathing_ep_6.mp3?download=true https://content.blubrry.com/martyrmade_podcast/War_All_the_Time.mp3?download=true |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:26:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 96Ag: If nothing else this shows what you can and can't talk about. I'm a MartyrMade Substack subscriber and I listened to the entire interview with Tucker. The absolute histrionics over this have been amusing. @96Ag Not subbed, on the filthy poor side so I have more pressing stuff to spend on (and frankly I detest giving anyone any personal info to get anything now) - has he said anything at all about when the slavery series will be released on the public side for free? I also listened to the entire tucker interview. It was just pedestrian stuff. People get mad about things they shouldn't even be noticing. "Oh look he treated churchill and the brits as humans. Shocking!" |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:28:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: The "ww2 wasn't Hitler's fault" narrative is retarded. But it totally plays into the modern political realism narrative. It's Polands fault for being "unreasonable" and not giving up Danzig to the real player, Germany. It's Britain's fault that Germany had to set up all those death camps. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By FivespeedF150: The expression “break the internet” has been bandied about forever, usually as an attempt to convince people soemthing is already viral. But Darryl’s stance on Churchill / Hitler, communicated on Tucker’s show, has sent the rightwing twitterverse into a bit of a circular firing squad. The "ww2 wasn't Hitler's fault" narrative is retarded. But it totally plays into the modern political realism narrative. It's Polands fault for being "unreasonable" and not giving up Danzig to the real player, Germany. It's Britain's fault that Germany had to set up all those death camps. He didn't say any of those things. He didn't say anything that could mean those things. The only thing you have done is told everyone that you ... didn't listen to or watch the video ... or you did but your preconceptions made it impossible for you to understand the words you were hearing. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:38:21 PM EDT
[#31]
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:45:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By odiedodi: That's probably the most concise summary. I've thought Churchill was a shitbag drunk for years. It's fun to finally watch others start flinging shit over it. Indeed. Just sitting with my popcorn |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:46:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FlashMan-7k: He didn't say any of those things. He didn't say anything that could mean those things. The only thing you have done is told everyone that you ... didn't listen to or watch the video ... or you did but your preconceptions made it impossible for you to understand the words you were hearing. Par for the course with old Andy. He knows what he is doing |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:51:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FivespeedF150: "Official Response" is out. Working through it now. To the Perplexed (w/audio) @Notcalifornialegal maybe add to OP |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:51:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayfaerer320: They were all terrible human beings. We could argue all day about who was the worst, but this insinuation that "maybe Hitler wasn't that bad afterall" is beyond retarded. You're the one reading "hitler wasn't so bad afterall". That's not what Cooper said, nor is it what I wrote. What I did state was "with all of these other people who did all of these other things, why should I look at mustache man any differently?" |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:54:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FivespeedF150: @Notcalifornialegal maybe add to OP Added. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 7:56:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FlashMan-7k: He didn't say any of those things. He didn't say anything that could mean those things. The only thing you have done is told everyone that you ... didn't listen to or watch the video ... or you did but your preconceptions made it impossible for you to understand the words you were hearing. Uh huh. He just blamed the Brits for escalating things to the point Germany had to get it on. Totally not rehashing tired 40s German propaganda apologetics for launching an unprovoked war of conquest. The war was not "over" after Germany conquered France. Britain did not escalate things by refusing Hitlers "peace" and they certainly weren't warmongers for refusing it when he tried to bomb them into it. Germany offered peace because Germany absolutely NEEDED Britain out of the war because they desoerately needed oil. Germany was in an oil crisis and was on the verge of having to DEmotorize many infantry units. With Britain still fighting them, and more importantly the RN choking their access to VZ or US oil, they had no choice but to attack the Soviets despite not having secured oil elsewhere. It was then or never. Britain didn't "escalate" the war. They held firm and refused to let Hitler have his way. They forced Hitler to launch Operation Barbarossa under time constraints that would basically preclude it from winning. More to the point, they refused to be suckered by a regime that had broken its word at every turn. No peace with Germany was worth the paper it was printed on. I don't think Cooper is stupid. I think he's malicious. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:01:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FennRx: Par for the course with old Andy. He knows what he is doing Indeed, I do. Pointing out obvious bullshit is a hobby of mine. I love how he paints the Brits as villains for the hunger of civilians in the reich...even though it was mostly felt in places like the Netherlands as the Germans looted all the food to send back to Germany. What a fucking tool. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:04:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayfaerer320: Hitler's axe to grind is the reason any of this shit happened at all in the first place. Hitler's axe to grind was the treaty of versailles. the british axe to grind is that Russia assisted the united states in both the revolutionary war and the civil war. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:05:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FivespeedF150: "Official Response" is out. Working through it now. To the Perplexed (w/audio) Thanks for the link. With silences compressed out (silence is anything -45db or less) it comes out to about 42 minutes. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:09:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fulminate: Hitler's axe to grind was the treaty of versailles. the british axe to grind is that Russia assisted the united states in both the revolutionary war and the civil war. When did Russia "assist" us during the Revolutionary War? That's pretty misleading. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:13:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Uh huh. He just blamed the Brits for escalating things to the point Germany had to get it on. Totally not rehashing tired 40s German propaganda apologetics for launching an unprovoked war of conquest. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By FlashMan-7k: He didn't say any of those things. He didn't say anything that could mean those things. The only thing you have done is told everyone that you ... didn't listen to or watch the video ... or you did but your preconceptions made it impossible for you to understand the words you were hearing. Uh huh. He just blamed the Brits for escalating things to the point Germany had to get it on. Totally not rehashing tired 40s German propaganda apologetics for launching an unprovoked war of conquest. Oh, you were just a tiny shred shamed and ran off to find a one sentence mention of what's supposedly in the video. How nice! Nope, he didn't do that. You would know all of this if you had listened/watched an done so to understand what was being said. You're not even arguing with what the guy said in the video. You are shadowboxing your own ignorance and trying to pass that off as being informed and a worthwhile argument. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:15:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Indeed, I do. Pointing out obvious bullshit is a hobby of mine. I love how he paints the Brits as villains for the hunger of civilians in the reich...even though it was mostly felt in places like the Netherlands as the Germans looted all the food to send back to Germany. What a fucking tool. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By FennRx: Par for the course with old Andy. He knows what he is doing Indeed, I do. Pointing out obvious bullshit is a hobby of mine. I love how he paints the Brits as villains for the hunger of civilians in the reich...even though it was mostly felt in places like the Netherlands as the Germans looted all the food to send back to Germany. What a fucking tool. Love those lies, don't you? Clearly the allied / british blockaide of germany didn't happen, wasn't real, and is wholly made up. It also defintely didn't happen after the war was over either. You're not interested in the truth, you just want to punch a strawman to make yourself feel virtuous. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:28:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: I'm not familiar with this dude, but Tucker gave him a 2 hour long interview.
Cooper's response https://subscribe.martyrmade.com/p/to-the-perplexed-waudio The guy is still an idiot. - WWII in Europe was NOT the worst possible outcome. The hyperbolic premise is flawed. Hitler having full control over Europe, Russia and quite probably England over time would have been the worst possible outcome. Tens of millions more would have died. - Negotiating with Hitler would have been fruitless. "But wait, he only broke every treaty that he ever signed, why shouldn't we continue to negotiate with him?" is ridiculous. - "I'm not saying that Hitler was a good guy", but Churchill was THE villain, therefore worse than Hitler. Idiot. - "I usually don't do interviews because they make me nervous" says the guy making $6M a year off of 120K paying subscribers to his PODCAST. - The Germans weren't expecting the millions of prisoners, so they murdered them. The alternative might have been too slow down the imperialism until the could handle them. Nope, murder was the only alternative. Nonsense. BTW, France had an army of over a million when they surrendered. What happened to them? Enslaved or murdered. - Like the US, when the war was over and they won, the UK returned to their homeland. This is the opposite of Hitler's goals. - He cherry picked some like minded professors in academia. That must have taken a 10 second search. - "Germany wouldn't have committed atrocities if there wasn't a war." Total BS. He was killing Jews on an industrial scale even before the camps were open. He killed thousands of Polish prisoners before Barbarossa ever started. Murdering prisoners was the norm, not an exception. The good news is that saying absolutely idiotic things on Tucker can send your obscure podcast to the top of Tik Tok for a few weeks and make you an extra million or two. What a country. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:35:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wayfaerer320]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fulminate: What I did state was "with all of these other people who did all of these other things, why should I look at mustache man any differently?" What is your point exactly? Does it bother you that people think Hitler was more horrible than another horrible person? Who cares? It's obvious you're getting a little defensive. I think your problem (a lot of people have this problem) is that the left likes to call out Hitler a lot more than Stalin and Mao and you're bothered by it. The cool thing about history and facts is that they don't give a shit about anyone's feelings - the left or the right. Hitler's objective was to vaporize human beings - to wipe an entire people from the face of the Earth to make room for a master race of Germanic peoples. Stalin and Mao simply didn't care if people were vaporized in the process of their goals. And yes, I'm aware that Stalin and Mao literally had people murdered, but Hitler was on a different level - he ate, slept, and shit genocide. It was the very foundation of what made him tick. That's probably why Hitler is often cited as "most evil." His goal was genocide. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:37:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Far from absolving the Germans, my point - and I did get to this by the end - was that even if one accepts all of the revisionist excuses and rationalizations for German behavior on the Eastern Front, even if you take them all at face value, Germany still launched an invasion with no plan to feed or care for the millions of people taken under its power. That is murder. Maybe your supply lines hampered food distribution, maybe the fighting had stopped crop cultivation, maybe you had no choice but to decide which people would eat, and which would starve. You launched the war, you took those people captive, they were your responsibility, and it was murder. Tucker knew what I was saying, and again I did actually say that in the interview, but what many people heard was “the Holocaust was an accident,” or the result of logistical problems. That is not what I said, but to those people I would still add: Even if the deaths were largely the result of resource deficiencies and poor planning, it doesn’t change the fact that Jews were targeted for death. Under circumstances that forced a choice between who would eat and who would starve, the built-in antisemitism of the Third Reich guaranteed that Jews would be among the last in line. That is not to say that Jews were not massacred. Of course Jews were massacred. Peoples of all ethnicities were massacred, and it would have been quite a mystery if the Jews were an exception - doubly so, given the Third Reich’s unique antipathy toward them. It is simply to say that even the most generous interpretation of Germany’s actions toward civilians on the Eastern Front is still a description of murder. From "to the perplexed." |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:40:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SkullFarmer: Watching Ed Driscoll incessantly flog this shit over at Instapundit for the last several days has been instructive. This is essentially an attempted political hit. I listened to the interview in its entirety. Cooper was not saying that the Holocaust was an accident. The point he was trying to make is that the Germans were wholly unprepared for the number of Soviet POWs they ended up with. That should hardly be controversial given that Stalin completely dropped the ball in terms of being prepared to defend the Soviet Union from an invasion. Darryl Cooper clearly has a beef with Churchill. Whatever. But his larger point is a fair one: World War 2 has taken on its own mythology and is now basically a matter of religious dogma. As time passes, that will be less and less the case. Dan Carlin has made a similar point with respect to Nazi Germany and the Mongol Empire. I don't see anyone claiming that he is a Hitler (or Genghis Khan) apologist, but then again, this is not actually about Darryl Cooper. Part of it is an attempt to take Tucker Carlson down. Another part of it is to try to use it to tar Trump and J.D. Vance by association given their relationship with Carlson. Your point on the religious dogma was primus_pilum's point, about a year ago, and it both stuck with me incredibly + was absolutely right. Pointing out the Allies might've fucked up things in the Winter of 45 and 46, as well as the plight of the Jews having 0.0 to do with Allied decision-making, and capping it off with, why is nobody ever talking about the Bengal famine during this period that whacked anywhere between 1 and 3 million Indians: all of this should be looked into. Not to satisfy dumbfuck mouthbreathers that the Holocaust didn't happen, or that Hitler was somehow a good guy, but to ultimately ask several questions like: Were US decision-makers making decisions on what's best for the US long-term, or were/are loyalties divided? If one of two evil dictatorships was going to run Europe afterwards, is it best for US if Nazi Germany does it, or Communist USSR? Etc. None of this can be looked into without a whole lot of Reeeeee!-ing and name-calling to stop debate before it begins. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:40:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FlashMan-7k]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wayfaerer320: What is your point exactly? Does it bother you that people think Hitler was more horrible than another horrible person? What's bothersome is when people say (eta: or function as if) the stupid art school reject was the worst person ever, and use him and those who followed him as the worst ever - when they were not, which distorts what evil actually is and lets us off the hook for doing things that are wrong. It also makes it such that you cannot say things that are true about him and the nazis if they don't fit that idiotic truth-ignoring idea people have in their heads. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:52:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By broken_reticle: Cooper is a member here, maybe he will chime in. His podcasts tend to run way deeper than can be summarized in a couple of tweets. Anyone claiming to explain Cooper's position in a couple of sound bites is wrong. Let's not forget FDR was a socialist himself. Oh, I haven't forgotten. Again, we don't make serious moves to ensure that one of the Axis will declare war on us (the oil and scrap moratorium) until after Hitler starts kicking the shit seriously out of the Soviet Union. Nanking, absorbing French Indochina, the rest of the numerous Chinese atrocities: Damn. That sucks for you. Hope the Flying Tigers help... Chiang's brother-in-law or whatever. And then Barbarossa starts, and we get serious about pushing the Axis to start shit. Ask the questions, is all I'm saying. Fuck those idiots who think that places like Majdanek and Chelmno or Maly Trostenets didn't exist, or couldn't have killed so many. (They burned them on railroad tie pyres, you fucking retarded execution method specialist. Yep, the crematoria couldn't go at that pace. That fact doesn't mean the killings didn't happen.) Another tough part is that most of the killings, the Reinhardt extermination camps, occured in what would eventually be Soviet territory. It wasn't like Patton kicking in the door to Dachau. That evidence, we have. (Even if it looks like the soldiers took extra judicial vengeance on the wrong fucking guys. A lot of the SS cleared out beforehand. Oops.) |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2024 8:55:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By firedog51d: France and Great Britain had no possible way of aiding Poland when they declared war on Germany.....not on the Soviet Union though. That says a lot. They should have sat it out and let Nazis and Commies kill each other. Those Polish areas in dispute had been Prussian for hundreds of years. Hitler would still have attacked Poland to use as a staging area to attack the USSR. Oh please. France could have easily attacked into the Rhineland if they wanted. Wouldn't have taken the Brits too long to show up either. No one really wanted to start shit with Germany, was the problem. "It's a red line!" Sure. But that might've cost a few thousand Frenchman. And brought back the specter of WW1. |
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