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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:34:04 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You already did that when you bought the gun at any dealer. 
Really? |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:37:57 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I left (california) for greener pastures. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:40:19 PM EST
[#3]
My pistol can go across state lines without extra "Mother may I" B.S.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:43:09 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not unfortunate for me. I'm not concerned, but you're overly sensitive because you're making a big deal about me voicing my opinion. Ironically, that's what you're accusing me of. In my experience, as well as those that I know who have shot the Blade, it's not uncomfortable. I go off that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Unfortunately for you it still is true being uncomfortable to shoot. You may not feel that way but it still doesn't change how I feel and neither does it make it any less true or not. If a person says it's uncomfortable, then it's true. Why are you so concerned about how another person relates their experience about it? In my experience, as well as those that I know who have shot the Blade, it's not uncomfortable. I go off that. 
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:43:55 PM EST
[#5]
I am enjoying reading all the differing opinions, and it seems about 50/50 with a lot of posters not mattering to them one way or another. It also seems like what state you live in could be a deciding factor too.
Keep it coming...it is interesting stuff. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:46:45 PM EST
[#6]
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You've never bought an AR (or any gun for that matter) that you didn't have to fill out a 4473 for??? https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif Really?
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Posted: 2/11/2018 4:56:16 PM EST
[#7]
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I’m not worried about that. I have a passport and global entry etc along with quite a few NFA items. They know who I am and there’s nothing to stop them from really wanting to know you if they think there is justification. Here’s the bottom line: current braces are designed to skirt the SBR law. I’m all for that and want millions of people to enjoy short ARs as that is their right. The NFA should be repealed but as of right now we have rules to play by. However, one day the ATF could wake up and change their mind on braces just as they’ve done so many times before. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Which is why I do not trust them with my personal firearm information. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif Here’s the bottom line: current braces are designed to skirt the SBR law. I’m all for that and want millions of people to enjoy short ARs as that is their right. The NFA should be repealed but as of right now we have rules to play by. However, one day the ATF could wake up and change their mind on braces just as they’ve done so many times before. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 5:09:03 PM EST
[#8]
To me to only benefit of having a pistol is that it allows me to still use my rifle until the tax stamp gets here, but I only do one at a time. After the stamp comes in I SBR my current setup and then start to build a new pistol using my old pistol receiver extension and brace.
I can afford to pay the $200 every time and to me a stock looks and feels better, most of the braces look cheap and feel flimsy (to me). |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 5:58:12 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question. I have SBR's, Pistols, and a few Carbine lengths. What keeps them from making ANY of those a "nogo" just by their ruling. What protections do we have that they have you not '94 AWB style all of it, and not make it retroactive? |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 6:08:39 PM EST
[#10]
I choose sbr, had there been options of braces like there is today I may have just built pistols.
My only gripe about doing Nfa items is the wait. I have become more patient though after acquiring 6 stamps. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 6:33:00 PM EST
[#11]
I have both. IMO an SBR is relegated to a range toy. I don't want my NFA item that I jumped through hoops for sitting in an evidence locker in the event of a defensive shooting and who knows when (if) I would get it back.
I run the shockwave brace on my pistol. Other than being slightly less comfortable, there is no difference in shootability or operation and I have the benefit of not having to jump through hoops or carry paperwork around. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 6:34:43 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imo you need both. The SBR lower(s) should be like any other lower you own so switching between your other lowers is seamless, and an SBR lower isn't an SBR with a 16"+ barreled upper. One pistol lower for loaded/concealed/vehicle use and crossing state lines without sufficient notice to file a 5320.20. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 6:39:47 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is how I went. After the first change of mind by ATF, I Form 1'ed my pistol as insurance, $200 cheaper than a lawyer and I wasn't as worried about LEO involvement as I was an altercation with range nazi. When they reversed their opinion, I bought another $50 lower that I built into a pistol for the above reasons. There is piece of mind owning a legal SBR |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 6:52:09 PM EST
[#14]
These days, there is little difference between a properly configured AR Pistol and an AR SBR.
SBR: 
Pistol: 
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Posted: 2/11/2018 7:03:21 PM EST
[#15]
There's still a major difference. I don't like those PDW stocks and an SBR let's me legally use a VFG.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 7:04:40 PM EST
[#16]
playing with stamps is a silly silly game
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Posted: 2/11/2018 7:20:03 PM EST
[#17]
I have SBRs but a braced pistol lower would be pretty handy for me to have. Since I live very close to the Alabama state line and go there often to shoot, being able to take my shorty ARs into another state without asking permission would be nice.
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Posted: 2/11/2018 8:21:11 PM EST
[#18]
When I first got the NFA bug ten years ago I bought a Phase5 pistol tube (padded receiver extension) so that I could legally test out the lower and store the upper while I waited for the stamps to be approved. I never considered keeping it in that configuration. Made 6 sbr’s and didn’t look back.
Then when the braces became a thing my thought was “no way is the ATF gonna go for that”. And I was right. But then they reversed their opinion re the Sig letter. All that said I still think the SBR route is better for me because it’s more comfortable/stable, looks better (I’m vain), and ultimately when I look at the “brace” posted above I can’t help but think the ATF is gonna wake up one day (maybe at the behest of a future Dem has president) and go, “that’s not a brace, it’s a stock”. One other element not yet discussed in this thread is that braces are probably tolerable for .223, .22lr and 9mm but when it comes to 12ga, .308, or even x39 it’s going to be much less comfortable to “shoulder” with so little surface area against your body. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 9:16:19 PM EST
[#19]
I was just at a machine gun shoot in Manatee County today with SilencerCo as a vendor. Of course they were showing off the new items from the shot show. Now my issue is (same with SBR too) if I were to purchase a top of the line brand new design silencer, and would not see for at least 7months. NFA Tracker has the average times at 200-250 days. By then they will be teasing us with the 2019'upgrades.
I do not agree with the NFA, but even if we have to live with them they in the vary least create an undue burden on us exercising our 2A. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 9:23:10 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's still a major difference. I don't like those PDW stocks and an SBR let's me legally use a VFG. I have 3 AR pistols, an 11.5'', a 10.5'' and a 7.5'' and only my 7.5'' uses an AFG. My 10.5'' and 11.5' are over 26'' and use a vertical front grip. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 9:41:26 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With an arm brace on a pistol you will likely be over 26'' and can use a vertical front grip. An AR with a barrel over 8.5'' in length can reach 26'' OAL and use a front grip. I have 3 AR pistols, an 11.5'', a 10.5'' and a 7.5'' and only my 7.5'' uses an AFG. My 10.5'' and 11.5' are over 26'' and use a vertical front grip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's still a major difference. I don't like those PDW stocks and an SBR let's me legally use a VFG. I have 3 AR pistols, an 11.5'', a 10.5'' and a 7.5'' and only my 7.5'' uses an AFG. My 10.5'' and 11.5' are over 26'' and use a vertical front grip. I'm not sure what is going on here but it sure isn't winning my heart and mind over this. In fact, it strengthened my position on SBR's being the best for short barrels even more. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 9:44:47 PM EST
[#22]
Everybody has their own idea of what is best.
The problem is, everybody thinks what is best for them, is best for others. It is not. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 9:56:05 PM EST
[#23]
Get both.
I have 2 SBR lowers and 2 pistol lowers (and 4 shorty uppers). I have family property relatively close by (but out of state) that I go to pretty frequently which is where the pistol lowers come in. I can take my HD upper and .300BLK hunting upper with me without dicking around with paperwork. When I’m in state, any of those uppers I shoot is done so on one of the SBR lowers. Best of both worlds. ETA: Agreed on pretty much any stock being better than pretty much any brace, though, even if marginally so. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 10:01:31 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everybody has their own idea of what is best. The problem is, everybody thinks what is best for them, is best for others. It is not. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 10:03:37 PM EST
[#25]
Being in the military, I go where my order tells me to go. When an inclement weather evacuation order drops, I need to go. I don't have time to ask the ATF permission to go to a different state. an evacuation order is LEAVE RIGHT NOW. I refuse to be ATF's little b......
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Posted: 2/11/2018 10:21:08 PM EST
[#26]
ARFcom tradition, GET BOTH
I like both and have both. I can should an SBR at matches and other events that I might be seen doing so. I can travel across state lines with an easy form 5320.20. I get the 5320.20's for all the local states good for the whole year. I like pistols for the reasons said above. I can carry it with my pistol permit and if it is stolen out of the truck, I don't lose a registered lower. If money is tight, get a pistol lower. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 10:36:56 PM EST
[#27]
I've got a 10" 9mm SBR and 7" 5.56 pistol as range toys. One is obnoxious and raucous. The other not.
I have an AR pistol kept in "firearm" configuration that I consider a fairly serious tool. The only thing I'm missing is an AR-15 AOW...but that's kinda stupid. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 11:27:16 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I could say the same with you. It concerned you enough that it compelled you to try and discredit what I wrote about my experience with it and that's what I'm basing this on. So in my experience and with another who owns one, and he has agreed that it's not as comfortable as an actual stock. I'm going with what my experience is and not with someone else's experiences. It's as simple as that. |
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Posted: 2/11/2018 11:36:59 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The difference is you chose to attack my opinion directly by quoting me, I didn't come after you specifically and say your opinion was flawed nor did I ever try to discredit you personally. Not sure where you cam up with that. Sadly, you have a chip on your shoulder. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:02:48 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it? What if I told you that I can legally conceal a rifle locked and loaded in my front seat that is also an SBR? It's not an advantage then. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:04:53 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People live in other states you know... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is it? What if I told you that I can legally conceal a rifle locked and loaded in my front seat that is also an SBR? It's not an advantage then. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:07:21 AM EST
[#32]
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Totally understand that. But people speak as if their state laws apply to everyone else. Not true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is it? What if I told you that I can legally conceal a rifle locked and loaded in my front seat that is also an SBR? It's not an advantage then. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:14:33 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm just saying your blanket statement of "It's not an advantage then" is wrong based on your logic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is it? What if I told you that I can legally conceal a rifle locked and loaded in my front seat that is also an SBR? It's not an advantage then. This is getting us nowhere. Just a back an forth. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:28:07 AM EST
[#34]
I would get both if I could. Some of the current brace options are extremely....effective.
You can't deny the pistol route has the crossing state line advantage. In some states you can legally have a pistol loaded in your vehicle but not a rifle, and in some states SBRs aren't legal at all. You can't deny an SBR has the comfortable/perfectly shoulderable advantage. Your situation is what makes one or the other better, and my vote is get both. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:29:56 AM EST
[#35]
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:34:54 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the often overlooked advantages of pistols. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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SBRs no longer makes sense with the very solid braces on the market. Here in Washington St I can have a loaded pistol in my vehicle not so much with a rifle. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:47:16 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep... no "if"s or "then"s about it. So there is an if and a then after all. We all don't use our rifles the same. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:51:11 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No such thing. If I cross state lines then I want a pinned and welded 14.5 and not a shorter than 14.5 barrel. Better ballistics at longer distances across open spaces and a shorter barrel is best for me at CQB distances. And both gives me a stock, an actual stock. So there is an if and a then after all. We all don't use our rifles the same. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:52:34 AM EST
[#39]
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:52:34 AM EST
[#40]
The new adjustable pistol braces that mount on a standard mil-spec buffer tube make owning a pistol just as good as an sbr. Maybe better, considering the $200, the permission slip, the waiting, and being on a list.
I have an sbr, but wouldn't if these had been an option 2 years ago. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 12:54:14 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No such thing. If I cross state lines then I want a pinned and welded 14.5 and not a shorter than 14.5 barrel. Better ballistics at longer distances across open spaces and a shorter barrel is best for me at CQB distances. And both gives me a stock, an actual stock. So there is an if and a then after all. We all don't use our rifles the same. the reverse can be said for that as well. This is getting us nowhere. Just a back an forth. We should stop. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:00:57 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: oh I forgot to say the reverse can be said for that as well. This is getting us nowhere. Just a back an forth. We should stop. Good job. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:02:54 AM EST
[#43]
Stockshaming
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:08:12 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clearly you're in the pistol camp and you've got nothing to add to this but mockery because you cannot change my opinion here. Good job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: oh I forgot to say the reverse can be said for that as well. This is getting us nowhere. Just a back an forth. We should stop. Good job. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:12:46 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wasn't trying to change your opinion. I was stating a fact. If you want me to state it again, I'll do it. It's like a gun grabber saying gun control saves lives and ending with the word fact as if it's the end all be all when we both know that it creates more violence. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:23:31 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stockshaming
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:26:45 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a,subjective opinion at best, not an absolute fact. It's like a gun grabber saying gun control saves lives and ending with the word fact as if it's the end all be all when we both know that it creates more violence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I wasn't trying to change your opinion. I was stating a fact. If you want me to state it again, I'll do it. It's like a gun grabber saying gun control saves lives and ending with the word fact as if it's the end all be all when we both know that it creates more violence. Quoted:
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SBRs no longer makes sense with the very solid braces on the market. Here in Washington St I can have a loaded pistol in my vehicle not so much with a rifle. Quoted:
No such thing. If I cross state lines then I want a pinned and welded 14.5 and not a shorter than 14.5 barrel. Better ballistics at longer distances across open spaces and a shorter barrel is best for me at CQB distances. And both gives me a stock, an actual stock. So there is an if and a then after all. We all don't use our rifles the same. and hey this is all just my opinion so it doesn't even matter what other people think. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:30:23 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: """"""""""""""" wrong there is such a thing and hey this is all just my opinion so it doesn't even matter what other people think. But you're right, in the end it's just our opinions. And it's at an impasse. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 1:35:25 AM EST
[#49]
Boy this turned in a silly conversation!
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Posted: 2/12/2018 9:32:52 AM EST
[#50]
Okay boys, I've had enough "Reports" about this thread. This is a Technical Forum. State your opinion and leave it at that. Quit this silly arguing and back and forth, or I will lock this thread and hand out Warnings" to all involved. Last chance. - Old_Painless
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