Bushmaster MOE 308, DPMS 308 bolt odd wear, is this normal?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bushmaster MOE 308, DPMS 308 bolt odd wear, is this normal? (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 2/15/2012 10:10:04 AM EDT

Fellow Members,

I have a Bushmaster MOE 308 Mid-length 1/10 7.62x51mm rifle, it has seen less than 1000 rounds. Ive mostly used Federal American Eagle 150gr FMJBT AE308D(400 rds), (200) rounds of Winchester 7.62mm 147 gr. FMJ Q3130, (200) rounds of AB22 7.62mm DM 111 Weichken German DAG... Without any problems, No FTF or FTE, BUT I did notice some odd wear in my bolt when cleaning my rifle. Is this normal wear on a DPMS pattern 308 bolt?

Note this is my first DPMS pattern 308 and look forward for your input, thanks.

ETA: I'm using Pmags and Bushmaster steel mag.

Posted: 2/15/2012 11:01:08 AM EDT

[#1]

I'm going to say no. Shouldn't damage the lugs like that.

My guess is that it is a camming or gas issue.

Posted: 2/15/2012 11:19:27 AM EDT

[#2]

It almost looks like the rifle is trying to cycle too quickly after the round goes off before case swelling subsides. Upgrade to a Slash buffer to slow it down and clean that rifle sir!

Posted: 2/15/2012 11:27:32 AM EDT

[#3]

No, call dpms and have them fix the rifle before it kabooms.

DPMS has had a problem with the bolts before, maybe you have one of them

call dpms

Posted: 2/15/2012 11:49:37 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
No, call dpms and have them fix the rifle before it kabooms.

DPMS has had a problem with the bolts before, maybe you have one of them

call dpms

thanks for the input guys, i had a felling this was off. I contacted Bushmaster via email lets see what they have to say about this, if it's a potential kaboom I'm sure they will know about it and fix it.

Posted: 2/15/2012 11:53:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
It almost looks like the rifle is trying to cycle too quickly after the round goes off before case swelling subsides. Upgrade to a Slash buffer to slow it down and clean that rifle sir!

LOL! ya this prior to me cleaning the rifle, it's now clean

here is a pic of the brass

Posted: 2/15/2012 12:09:57 PM EDT

[#6]

I got in contact with Bushmaster Customer Service! they are on top of this and sending me a RMA.

thanks guys for your input

Posted: 2/15/2012 9:47:38 PM EDT

[#7]

Let us know what they say and do!!!

Posted: 2/17/2012 7:00:53 PM EDT

[#8]

defently looks like abnormal wear.
imo...to tight of tolerance from bolt to barrel?...but then again....Im not a g-smith.

good move on calling bushmaster...but I have to ask...why a dpms bolt on a bushy

Posted: 2/18/2012 10:35:43 AM EDT

[#9]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your bolt from what I can see in the pics you posted. My bolts have looked the same way, and I just checked mine. It has the exact same marks. It's called normal wear of the manganese phosphate surface (Parkerization).

Sending it to Bushmaster will be a total waste of your and their time, unless there are some other issues not mentioned.

Also, your gun doesn't need to be cleaned. It looks well-lubed to me. Continue to shoot it as such and enjoy.

Brass looks fine too.

Not sure why the comments about this appearing to be jacked up, other than the high resolution of modern digital cameras, and large screen computers making something out of nothing.

Posted: 2/18/2012 12:18:38 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your bolt from what I can see in the pics you posted. My bolts have looked the same way, and I just checked mine. It has the exact same marks. It's called normal wear of the manganese phosphate surface (Parkerization).

Sending it to Bushmaster will be a total waste of your and their time, unless there are some other issues not mentioned.

Also, your gun doesn't need to be cleaned. It looks well-lubed to me. Continue to shoot it as such and enjoy.

Brass looks fine too.

Not sure why the comments about this appearing to be jacked up, other than the high resolution of modern digital cameras, and large screen computers making something out of nothing.

yet the missing corners on the lugs, nothing to worry about here.

Posted: 2/18/2012 12:47:25 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your bolt from what I can see in the pics you posted. My bolts have looked the same way, and I just checked mine. It has the exact same marks. It's called normal wear of the manganese phosphate surface (Parkerization).

Sending it to Bushmaster will be a total waste of your and their time, unless there are some other issues not mentioned.

Also, your gun doesn't need to be cleaned. It looks well-lubed to me. Continue to shoot it as such and enjoy.

Brass looks fine too.

Not sure why the comments about this appearing to be jacked up, other than the high resolution of modern digital cameras, and large screen computers making something out of nothing.

yet the missing corners on the lugs, nothing to worry about here.

I stand corrected. I was looking at the normal wear on the engagement surfaces of the lugs, plus I'm sick and ornery. Sorry gents. Those "dents" do in fact look pretty bad.

Posted: 2/18/2012 1:15:12 PM EDT

[#12]

Nevermind,.........I agree bolt needs attention!

Posted: 2/24/2012 11:34:35 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Let us know what they say and do!!!

So far the Bushmaster/Remington Arms/Cyberus Group etc

Customer Service has been good. They received my Bushmaster MOE 308 on Weds and emailed me a link for up to date 24/7 status updates, to this date they haven't worked on my rifle yet, so will see what they say.

Posted: 2/29/2012 3:29:25 PM EDT

[#14]

I also have a Bushmaster .308 Moe. Mine has less than 500 rounds fired. All ammo cycled thru the rifle has been either Federal Lake City or named brand soft point hunting ammo. The the leading edges of the bolt on my rifle has similar wear pattern. Will follow this thread to see what Bushmaster has to say.

Posted: 3/1/2012 12:37:00 PM EDT

[#15]

To this date Bushmaster has not looked at my rifle. I called to see what's going on, spoke to a CS rep, he inform me that it should be 8-10 weeks not including travel time

.The initial ETA they gave me was 1 week once it got to the repair facility.

Kinda seems like they are back paddling....

So will wait and see when a qualified GS diagnoses the problem.

Posted: 3/1/2012 1:40:51 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

To this date Bushmaster has not looked at my rifle. I called to see what's going on, spoke to a CS rep, he inform me that it should be 8-10 weeks not including travel time

.The initial ETA they gave me was 1 week once it got to the repair facility.

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Posted: 3/7/2012 3:46:23 PM EDT

[#17]

Finally got around to inspecting the bolt on my Bushmaster 308.
Mine has a similar wear pattern as the one in the photo.
But not as much wear on my bolt since I've only put around 350 rounds down the pipe.
I'm thinking normal wear.

Posted: 3/7/2012 9:04:31 PM EDT

[#18]

Has anyone noticed this type of wear on DPMS bolts?

Posted: 3/7/2012 9:30:43 PM EDT

[#19]

I can.put a pic up tomorrow but mine has faint marks just like the OP. I only have about 200 rounds down the tube though.

Posted: 3/7/2012 9:31:38 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Finally got around to inspecting the bolt on my Bushmaster 308.
Mine has a similar wear pattern as the one in the photo.
But not as much wear on my bolt since I've only put around 350 rounds down the pipe.
I'm thinking normal wear.

I don't know- I have near 1800 rounds thru my BM 308 ORC. The bolt lugs are pretty clean, no chines getting cut into them. Save the old bolt and look to them after shooting for wear comparisons.

Posted: 3/7/2012 9:41:39 PM EDT

[#21]

I have examined a couple of rifles... 2k+ rounds... no cuts in the lugs... some polishing.

Posted: 3/7/2012 10:22:42 PM EDT

[#22]

Mine is the .308 Moe. I would post pics if I could figure out how to do.
Just to be clear, we are concerned with the wear pattern at the tip of leading edge of the lug?
I take it the polishing of the on backside of the lug in normal.
Mine has a limited amount of polishing but tip is shaved off as in the OP's pics.
I've always heard these rifles are over gassed. But not sure if that is a factor.

Posted: 3/8/2012 12:38:58 AM EDT

[#23]

This is out of my Maten build. DPMS barrel extension and bolt. like i said before only about 200 rounds down the barrel.

Posted: 3/8/2012 2:53:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Kind of looks like they are unlocking early ? Maybe an adjustable gas block would stop it ? I'm wondering if the gas port size is causing this and or soft bolts?

Posted: 3/8/2012 9:56:35 AM EDT

[#25]

That's what my bolt looks like.
Cut on the edge with slight polishing on the flat surface of the lug.

Posted: 3/8/2012 9:57:14 AM EDT

[#26]

That's what my bolt looks like.
Cut on the edge with slight polishing on the flat surface of the lug.

Posted: 3/8/2012 10:11:02 AM EDT

[#27]

looks to me like a taper on the bolt lugs for smoother disengagment from the extenshion.
some not as pretty as others, but thats what it looks like.
would have to look at a new unfired bolt to be sure.

i just dont see it taking a chunk out like that on extraction. looks to uniform.

Posted: 3/8/2012 11:47:46 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
This is out of my Maten build. DPMS barrel extension and bolt. like i said before only about 200 rounds down the barrel.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/Brian_Bunch/IMG_0103.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/Brian_Bunch/IMG_0102.jpg

This is what my friends MOE 308 looks like after 200 rounds. Keep in mind that my indentations on my lugs.. are in every single one 360 all around.

Posted: 3/8/2012 1:29:38 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is out of my Maten build. DPMS barrel extension and bolt. like i said before only about 200 rounds down the barrel.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/Brian_Bunch/IMG_0103.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/Brian_Bunch/IMG_0102.jpg

This is what my friends MOE 308 looks like after 200 rounds. Keep in mind that my indentations on my lugs.. are in every single one 360 all around.

Mine are as well

Posted: 3/8/2012 2:28:22 PM EDT

[#30]

Just for comparison my DPMS bolt has some wear on the same edges but not any 'cuts' or grooves" like the pictures are showing. It has at least 2500 rounds on the bolt and about 1000 on the barrel extension. This barrel extension is carbine gas length and the 2500 count is on a rifle length. I do not remember any wear when I swapped the barrels. So I am assuming it started with the carbine gas system. I do not know If it matters any. Food for thought.

Posted: 3/8/2012 2:57:44 PM EDT

[#31]

I checked my new LR with only one clip through from DPMS test firing and it has what looks like a slight machined 45* chamfer edge in the same area with some wear on it and some partial phosphate, so the chamfer is machined. I'd like to see a new Bushy bolt to see how it's machined and where theres phosphate on the edge. I think CMT makes DPMS BCGs but I'm not sure who machines Bushy's BCG?

Posted: 3/8/2012 10:25:36 PM EDT

[#32]

Hopefully I will be picking up my new Bushy ORC next week, so I will check it prior to shooting it, and report back!!!

Posted: 3/9/2012 6:15:27 PM EDT

[#33]

Take pictures and upload.

Posted: 3/9/2012 7:42:23 PM EDT

[#34]

Here is a picture of my friends Bushmaster MOE 308 rifle Bolt Carrier and Lug wear after 200 rounds.

His rifle is in the BRD0006XX range mine is in the BRD0005XX range made in Illion, NY Factory and not in the BM Windham, MD Factory.

Before you guys send your rifle in to Bushmaster/Remington Arms....

Quoted:
To this date Bushmaster has not looked at my rifle. I called to see what's going on, spoke to a CS rep, he inform me that it should be 8-10 weeks not including travel time

.The initial ETA they gave me was 1 week once it got to the repair facility.

.

Posted: 3/9/2012 9:17:32 PM EDT

[#35]

Looks just like mine. I doubt this is abnormal.

Posted: 3/10/2012 12:03:01 PM EDT

[#36]

Agreed. Mine looks similar and has around 350 round through it.
Must be machined in.

Posted: 3/10/2012 12:39:39 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Agreed. Mine looks similar and has around 350 round through it.
Must be machined in.

Did any of you guys notice your bolt carrier group new?

I did and it was nothing like it was when I took the picture... It was new without any missing corners or angles on the Bolt lugs. You do know the MOE 308 has a DPMS bolt carrier group right?

After researching and looking at my fellow shooters DPMS rifles personally, they have no missing corners on the Bolt lugs.

Some of you saying its machine, I can tell you it's positively not from the factory. Also why whould Bushmaster issue a RMA if it was normal?

Posted: 3/10/2012 1:11:26 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Agreed. Mine looks similar and has around 350 round through it.
Must be machined in.

Did any of you guys notice your bolt carrier group new?

I did and it was nothing like it was when I took the picture... It was new without any missing corners or angles on the Bolt lugs. You do know the MOE 308 has a DPMS bolt carrier group right?

After researching and looking at my fellow shooters DPMS rifles personally, they have no missing corners on the Bolt lugs.

Some of you saying its machine, I can tell you it's positively not from the factory. Also why whould Bushmaster issue a RMA if it was normal?

because a company with good customer service WILL take in their product to look it over even if they know theres nothing wrong.
makes the customer feel better.

Posted: 3/10/2012 1:16:17 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Agreed. Mine looks similar and has around 350 round through it.
Must be machined in.

Did any of you guys notice your bolt carrier group new?

I did and it was nothing like it was when I took the picture... It was new without any missing corners or angles on the Bolt lugs. You do know the MOE 308 has a DPMS bolt carrier group right?

After researching and looking at my fellow shooters DPMS rifles personally, they have no missing corners on the Bolt lugs.

Some of you saying its machine, I can tell you it's positively not from the factory. Also why whould Bushmaster issue a RMA if it was normal?

because a company with good customer service WILL take in their product to look it over even if they know theres nothing wrong.
makes the customer feel better.

Oh ok, that's real sweet.

Posted: 3/10/2012 2:53:54 PM EDT

[#40]

My DPMS LR bolt has slight 45* radius cuts on the leadging edge of the lugs that are faint and hard to see without magnification. Also some are shiney worn in and some still have partial phosphate showing which leads me to believe they are machined with a slight radius. Mine are nothing like the picture of your(Prolific) bolt lugs, your has something going on that needs correction. I'm sure Bushy will make it right. Good Luck

Posted: 3/10/2012 2:58:45 PM EDT

[#41]

i am not concerned at the moment. I will be shooting a significant amount tomorrow. If i see a significant difference then ill get concerned.

Posted: 3/10/2012 7:33:54 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Agreed. Mine looks similar and has around 350 round through it.

Must be machined in.

Did any of you guys notice your bolt carrier group new?

I did and it was nothing like it was when I took the picture... It was new without any missing corners or angles on the Bolt lugs. You do know the MOE 308 has a DPMS bolt carrier group right?

After researching and looking at my fellow shooters DPMS rifles personally, they have no missing corners on the Bolt lugs.

Some of you saying its machine, I can tell you it's positively not from the factory. Also why whould Bushmaster issue a RMA if it was normal?

because a company with good customer service WILL take in their product to look it over even if they know theres nothing wrong.

makes the customer feel better.

Bushmaster doesn't fall into that category.

Posted: 3/10/2012 7:48:25 PM EDT

[#43]

I sold my DPMS 308 a few years ago, but didn't notice anything like that on the lugs at all. In fact, other than the surface coloring wearing away, it had no noticeable rounding or wear of any kind after close to 5000 rounds, Surplus, Match, and Hand Loads.
If it isn't a machined in design, is it possible that it is a heat treat issue, in addition to unlocking early?
That type of battery on a softer than normal surface would tend to look like that.

Posted: 3/12/2012 11:30:29 AM EDT

[#44]

Well this has been a PITA, looks like Bushmaster/Remington has a back log of repairs 8-10 weeks

.

Time line:

02/15/12 RMA issued from Bushamster, initial ETA was 1 week to diagnose/repair firearm.

02/22/12 Firearm received at Illion, NY factory

03/01/12 Called to see whats going on, Spoke to CS Rep, was told 8-10 weeks to get to firearm and not including travel time

03/02/12 Called back to ask to return firearm and I told them I was going to have my Gunsmith look at it, I offered to pay shipping but they said don't worry about it. If the initial ETA would have been 8-10 weeks i would have took care of the problem myself.

03/12/12 No firearm, no email, no call... So i called again to see what happen to my firearm?.....(I tracked my firearm via Remington.com website said "Repairman is in the process of servicing the firearm/part." sweet

I didn't ask for that but ok cool

).... Spoke with CS Rep said no we haven't looked at the firearm, note says return, should have it out the door within the end of the week(apparently Inventory was done and nothing shipped out from the factory).

If you want us to keep it, it's still 4-6 weeks just for a smith to Diagnose the problem. Ok please send out firearm.

this is my opinion from a Bushmaster MOE 308 owner:

The rifle shoots good and reliable but the Illion,NY factory needs some growing to do as far as building rifles and efficiency of repairs. The first signs that should had made me run away was:

CONS
1) A2 flash hider was not timed properly and loose. I was able to take off flash hider with my hands only.
2) Castle and end plate was not stack. With minimal force i was able to take off stock assembly with my hands only.
3) Rear take down receiver pin was WAY TOO LOOSE and started walking after a few rounds. (found rear detent spring was bent and broken due to improperly installation of MOE grip)

I would recommend anyone thinking of buying the MOE to consider it, check all the "potential problems (ie. llion,NY Factory made check extra close) if none are found buy it and enjoy. The Bolt lug problem is still up in the air and I wont know till I take it to a Smith. I'll be very happy when I get my rifle back

from my review: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_28/204089_Bushmaster__308_ORC___308_MOE__etc_.html

Quoted:
I have a Bushmaster MOE edition 308, when I got it first impressions was good, it was packed neatly in a hard plastic Bushmaster case with a 10 round mag(Cali

), sling, MBUS, RVG, Manual, Warranty card.
After taking it home I started to notice some novice building mistakes yet simple solutions to correct said mistakes.

CONS
1) A2 flash hider was not timed properly and loose. I was able to take off flash hider with my hands only.
2) Castle and end plate was not stack. With minimal force i was able to take off stock assembly with my hands only.
3) Rear take down receiver pin was WAY TOO LOOSE and started walking after a few rounds. (found rear detent spring was bent and broken due to improperly installation of MOE grip)

NEUTRAL
1) BCG extractor spring had no black insert or Mil Spec O-Ring... Note I fired (100) rounds of American Eagle 308 150 gr. FMJBT AE308D, (100) rounds of Winchester 7.62mm 147 gr. FMJ Q3130, (100) rounds of AB22 7.62mm DM 111 Weichken German DAG just as it came from the factory without ANY problems. I then installed a black insert and a Mil Spec O-Ring in the extractor fired the same amount of Ammo of the same kind without ANY problems had slight noticeable increase launch of my brass casings.

PROS
1) $1290.00 shipped for a 308 with Magpul goodies

2) Nice finish.
3) Accurate and reliable.... sorry I forgot to take a pic of my target

4) A big company like Bushmaster should not overlook the minor problems like stacking the end plate and castle nut, poor installation of flash hider and MOE grip... however I was going to replace those parts anyways and I sold them off almost new and intact Thank you for not stacking

...UBR founds.
5) I'm happy with my Bushmaster Performance.

Parts I upgraded:
1) Magpul UBR stock.... Balances the rifle just right.
2) Magpul MIAD grip... Make sure to add a piece of plastic to hold the rear take down detent pin spring.
3) Ambidextrous safety selector.
4) AAC BlackOut Flash Hider.
5) Daniel Defense BUIS.
6) Badger Ordnance Tac Latch.
7) Installed Mil Spec O-ring in the extractor.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-76.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-77.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-81.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-80.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-79.jpg

Posted: 3/12/2012 3:08:04 PM EDT

[#45]

This is why I prefer to start from scratch with any product I'm looking at if I can. The AR design is probably the most user-friendly when it comes to assembling something yourself, outside of Legos and sandwiches.

If you take the time to learn the nuances and logical/solid assembly and trouble-shooting procedures, and have the brains to select quality parts, you can avoid a lot of BS that someone's else's mistakes might cause you. I've seen simple mistakes made on $3000-$4000 rifles, so why should I bother spending my cash on a product that I have questions about.

When I am in control of part selection, inspection, assembly, and trouble-shooting, I have a warm and fuzzy about my blasters. So far, I've had excellent results with my projects. I also like being able to take my stripped parts, and Cerakote them before assembly.

If I see indications of a part failure, I can replace the part with another, without waiting on someone's "customer service department".

How many times have we heard about shooters who sent in a clear problem gun, only to receive it back with no evidence of any changes, the same problem still occurring, and a note from the manufacturer claiming nothing is wrong with their product?

Who serviced the weapon? What is their experience? Have they had a urinalysis in the past 24 hours? With me, I know the answers to all those questions, and have always been able to diagnose any issues with friends' or my guns.

While I may know a lot about the AR platform, I'm always open to learning more, and frequently ask those with solid armorer or gunsmithing backgrounds about questions that I have.

OP, I hope your issue is resolved. I agree that it appears to be early unlocking and or a heat-treatment issue with the steel. That wouldn't surprise me, because Bushmaster discontinued manufacture of the BAR-10 .308 several years ago after steel quality issues with the bolts.

Posted: 3/12/2012 5:14:29 PM EDT

[#46]

Could it be possible that the chamber is a little tight, and the bolt is not fully locking in the extention when the round is being fired?
OR I had noticed that the cam pin looked like it was hitting inside of the relief area on a receiver I just picked this weekend, and that might restrict the bolt movement.

This got me thinking, when I get home I'll assemble a barrel extention to the upper with the barrel nut, then close the bolt into it and look from the barrel end of the extention to see how much the bolt lugs are engaged with the extention lugs.

It will be a few days, but I'll post back

Posted: 3/15/2012 4:55:39 PM EDT

[#47]

Any updates?

Posted: 3/15/2012 9:41:15 PM EDT

[#48]

Here is mine, same exact rifle, same problem with the castle nut being loose. This is unfired. There is a angle cut on each of the lugs. I am supposed to get a magazine under warranty from the factory in the next day or so. Problem is its extremely tight in the magwell, only stuck it in once and it took the park off the mag, and definitely won't drop, you have to pull it out with force. I called and reported this problem when I bought this rifle, the first week of Feb..... Hopefully its a out of spec mag and not out of spec mag well. Hope these pics help.