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Posted: 6/10/2024 5:46:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Number0neGun: Do you have a thread about this gun? Curious about the barrel length, and optic. No thread. However, everything is period correct from parts, not a parts kit or rifle. Only 3 things not period correct is the AE M4 suppressor, AE collar and the 80% lower I finished. It has a Colt 14.5 pencil barrel, Colt C7 upper, Aimpoint 5000 (I attached the packing slip dated 1-13-93) that came with the original rings & a Colt marked carry handle mount. Surefire 660.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 5:58:29 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:35:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Would a Smith Enterprises carry handle rail be correct for these guns, or just the ARMS #02?
Does anybody have a lead on an ARMS #02? |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:53:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Subpar]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Number0neGun: Would a Smith Enterprises carry handle rail be correct for these guns, or just the ARMS #02? Does anybody have a lead on an ARMS #02? Not sure either would be correct. Most of the photos from that time look like it’s an MGW carry handle mount or maybe a Leupold if they made them then. Look at the front, squared off edge on the Somalia pics:   MGW:  ARMS:  Eta: delta appeared to continue using the MGW mount into the early 2000s:  
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Posted: 6/11/2024 8:58:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Okay, just ordered the MGW mount. Thanks!
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Posted: 6/11/2024 9:45:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: ARMS: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/IMG_9686-3238032.jpg Eta: delta appeared to continue using the MGW mount into the early 2000s: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/IMG_2367-3238033.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/IMG_5119-3238034.jpg So the Colt marked is Calt branded ARMS? |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 10:07:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Subpar]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AirborneCIB: So the Colt marked is Calt branded ARMS? Correct. Just an ARMS #2 with colt branding. They came on those old Colt Delta Elite HBARs:  Not sure if they were ever sold separately or just cannibalized from the Colt rifles. Here's the other side with the rudimentary ARMS marking: 
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Posted: 6/11/2024 10:14:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AirborneCIB: So the Colt marked is Calt branded ARMS? Notice the roll pin in the Colt branded mount that the ARMS mounts don't have. Colt may have contracted multiple companies for them over the years. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 12:50:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Number0neGun: Okay, just ordered the MGW mount. Thanks! Where did you order the mount from? |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 3:23:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jon_Moy: Where did you order the mount from? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jon_Moy: Originally Posted By Number0neGun: Okay, just ordered the MGW mount. Thanks! Where did you order the mount from? Straight from MGW. Call them up and order it over the phone. https://www.mgwshifters.com/ |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 4:16:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Straight from MGW. Call them up and order it over the phone. https://www.mgwshifters.com/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Originally Posted By Jon_Moy: Originally Posted By Number0neGun: Okay, just ordered the MGW mount. Thanks! Where did you order the mount from? Straight from MGW. Call them up and order it over the phone. https://www.mgwshifters.com/ That’s how I got my two last year. I don’t think they sell to distributors. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 4:19:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Straight from MGW. Call them up and order it over the phone. https://www.mgwshifters.com/ how much was it? |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 4:35:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ttushooter: how much was it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ttushooter: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Straight from MGW. Call them up and order it over the phone. https://www.mgwshifters.com/ how much was it? It was like $35 shipped for one I believe. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 4:35:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ttushooter: how much was it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ttushooter: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Straight from MGW. Call them up and order it over the phone. https://www.mgwshifters.com/ how much was it? Mine were $25 each in May of 2023. Think shipping was another $8 |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 6:49:26 PM EDT
[#15]
I paid $39.50 total.
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Posted: 6/13/2024 6:42:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Which are the most correct looking rings for a 9000SC?
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USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 7:44:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jon_Moy]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Number0neGun: Which are the most correct looking rings for a 9000SC? Leupold 30mm vertical split rings. They’ve become quite hard to find recently. ETA: I forgot about the Springfield rings. Same as the Leupold ones. This is where I got mine. FYI they are sold individually, not as a pair. Rings |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 7:46:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Subpar]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Number0neGun: Which are the most correct looking rings for a 9000SC? This is what you want. They’ll come in Leupold packaging, not Spingfield, and are the exact same rings that came with 5000s in the early 90s and used on Delta rifles pictured. People recently said you have to buy 2 packages to get 2 rings so something changed. These were unobtainable for years, but Leupold must have started making them again. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/GP5220S This is what you’ll get: 
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Posted: 6/13/2024 8:58:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks! I thought that was right, but I didn't know if there was a new consensus. Appreciate you.
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2024 5:21:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: This is what you want. They’ll come in Leupold packaging, not Spingfield, and are the exact same rings that came with 5000s in the early 90s and used on Delta rifles pictured. People recently said you have to buy 2 packages to get 2 rings so something changed. These were unobtainable for years, but Leupold must have started making them again. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/GP5220S This is what you’ll get: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/IMG_5139-3240136.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: Originally Posted By Number0neGun: Which are the most correct looking rings for a 9000SC? This is what you want. They’ll come in Leupold packaging, not Spingfield, and are the exact same rings that came with 5000s in the early 90s and used on Delta rifles pictured. People recently said you have to buy 2 packages to get 2 rings so something changed. These were unobtainable for years, but Leupold must have started making them again. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/GP5220S This is what you’ll get: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/IMG_5139-3240136.jpg Is one of those beefy enough to use with an Aimpoint PRO? |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 5:59:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sputnik556: Is one of those beefy enough to use with an Aimpoint PRO? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sputnik556: Originally Posted By Subpar: Originally Posted By Number0neGun: Which are the most correct looking rings for a 9000SC? This is what you want. They’ll come in Leupold packaging, not Spingfield, and are the exact same rings that came with 5000s in the early 90s and used on Delta rifles pictured. People recently said you have to buy 2 packages to get 2 rings so something changed. These were unobtainable for years, but Leupold must have started making them again. https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/GP5220S This is what you’ll get: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/IMG_5139-3240136.jpg Is one of those beefy enough to use with an Aimpoint PRO? Yeah. Like most of this clone stuff it's inferior to modern options, but it'll work fine. If I was gonna do that I'd just use 2 rings in that space. There's a guy with a great Blood Diamond clone that did just that. The original Aimpoint Comp M (The first of the "Pro" style bodies) was packaged with a "double wide" Leupold vertical split ring. The wide rings are impossible to find now, but using 2 regular split rings would basically recreate that. This is the wide ring: 
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Posted: 6/15/2024 1:05:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Subpar: Yeah. Like most of this clone stuff it's inferior to modern options, but it'll work fine. If I was gonna do that I'd just use 2 rings in that space. There's a guy with a great Blood Diamond clone that did just that. The original Aimpoint Comp M (The first of the "Pro" style bodies) was packaged with a "double wide" Leupold vertical split ring. The wide rings are impossible to find now, but using 2 regular split rings would basically recreate that. This is the wide ring: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/147863/tempImagexndmX1-3240893.jpg |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 2:23:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HaveBlue83]
[#23]
- just ordered from last batch Sai leupy rings. Came in a plastic bag
-colt marked weaver mount, opposing side just says m16a1/m16a2, engraved in, not arms -og 5000 (Cmmg 22lr kit for backyard fun with CCI clean-22's)  |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 5:08:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83: - just ordered from last batch Sai leupy rings. Came in a plastic bag -colt marked weaver mount, opposing side just says m16a1/m16a2, engraved in, not arms -og 5000 (Cmmg 22lr kit for backyard fun with CCI clean-22's) https://i.postimg.cc/mrbWCJ9S/IMG-20240602-162024920.jpg Very nice. Now update your lower and your castle nut to a lock ring. 
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Posted: 6/18/2024 4:38:49 PM EDT
[#25]
 Attached File"The book and movie “Blackhawk Down” were based on a horrific incident in Mogadishu, Somalia, in 1993 where Army Special Operations Forces were ambushed while carrying out a raid against warlord Mohmed Farrah Aidid. This display shows actual equipment worn during the operation. The weapon is a Colt XM177E2 submachine gun topped with an AimPoint sight. (Robert Bruce Military Photos)" Someone needs to clone this rifle too. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 6:18:39 AM EDT
[#26]
I don't believe that XM177E2s were used in Somalia
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Posted: 6/19/2024 7:11:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wes15a2: I don't believe that XM177E2s were used in Somalia There were no XM-177’s in Somalia. 18Z50 |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:16:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: There were no XM-177’s in Somalia. 18Z50 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: Originally Posted By wes15a2: I don't believe that XM177E2s were used in Somalia There were no XM-177’s in Somalia. 18Z50 I wonder why the JFK SF museum used it then. Maybe the just borrowed it from the Vietnam section. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 6:02:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: I wonder why the JFK SF museum used it then. Maybe the just borrowed it from the Vietnam section. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Originally Posted By 18B30: Originally Posted By wes15a2: I don't believe that XM177E2s were used in Somalia There were no XM-177’s in Somalia. 18Z50 I wonder why the JFK SF museum used it then. Maybe the just borrowed it from the Vietnam section. Muesum Director treated the exhibit Like a WW2 movie and used a Sherman with an Iron cross on it to be a German tank. |
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Posted: 6/20/2024 8:23:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harv24: Muesum Director treated the exhibit Like a WW2 movie and used a Sherman with an Iron cross on it to be a German tank. Funnily enough, that's why a lot of critics hate the documentary Kelly''s Heroes: The props department did such a good job with accurate procurements, they had actual German tanks and didn't have to dress up others to look the part. As for whether or not E2s were used in Mogadishu, if someone had told me that, I'd have believed it. This wasn't that far removed from Desert Storm, and we know E1s and E2s saw action in that AO. Doesn't seem impossible for that to be the case, but I believe @18B30 when he says there weren't any '177s in the Mog.  |
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Posted: 6/20/2024 9:44:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 18B30]
[#31]
The XM-177 type carbines seen in DS in 1991 were GAU5 from the Airforce security forces and canine handlers.
18Z50 |
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Posted: 6/20/2024 2:19:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: I wonder why the JFK SF museum used it then. Maybe the just borrowed it from the Vietnam section. The curator was doing the best with what he has. In the same exhibit the optic is mounted to the M14 with a zip tied carry handle mount. 
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Posted: 6/20/2024 7:01:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: The XM-177 type carbines seen in DS in 1991 were GAU5 from the Airforce security forces and canine handlers. 18Z50 The Air Force loaned these rifles to them for PSD?  
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Posted: 6/20/2024 7:28:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: The curator was doing the best with what he has. In the same exhibit the optic is mounted to the M14 with a zip tied carry handle mount. https://i.imgur.com/fQnxtCO.jpeg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: Originally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: I wonder why the JFK SF museum used it then. Maybe the just borrowed it from the Vietnam section. The curator was doing the best with what he has. In the same exhibit the optic is mounted to the M14 with a zip tied carry handle mount. https://i.imgur.com/fQnxtCO.jpeg Kinda makes sense from a firearms perspective. Some of the uniforms and gear may have been donated by individuals or units, but the .mil isn’t one to give guns away unless you’re a third world country. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 9:02:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: The Air Force loaned these rifles to them for PSD? https://i.imgur.com/12xxtyE.png https://i.imgur.com/Jdzh1TF.png Seems weird to me too, but I'm no expert. Pity we can't see the other side of the receivers to know if they had forward-assists or not. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 6:25:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: The Air Force loaned these rifles to them for PSD? https://i.imgur.com/12xxtyE.png https://i.imgur.com/Jdzh1TF.png Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: Originally Posted By 18B30: The XM-177 type carbines seen in DS in 1991 were GAU5 from the Airforce security forces and canine handlers. 18Z50 The Air Force loaned these rifles to them for PSD? https://i.imgur.com/12xxtyE.png https://i.imgur.com/Jdzh1TF.png |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2024 9:52:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grondike: Interesting pics. It looks like the same guy in both, but the carbine in the top picture appears to have a 10" barrel and the bottom one looks like 11.5". Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grondike: Originally Posted By failure: Originally Posted By 18B30: The XM-177 type carbines seen in DS in 1991 were GAU5 from the Airforce security forces and canine handlers. 18Z50 The Air Force loaned these rifles to them for PSD? https://i.imgur.com/12xxtyE.png https://i.imgur.com/Jdzh1TF.png Agree with all points. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 10:04:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grondike: Interesting pics. It looks like the same guy in both, but the carbine in the top picture appears to have a 10" barrel and the bottom one looks like 11.5". I don't think it's the same dude. Different hair, different watch. First carbine is an E1; second is an E2, or whatever the USAF nomenclature is for those old XM177s. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 10:50:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah: I don't think it's the same dude. Different hair, different watch. First carbine is an E1; second is an E2, or whatever the USAF nomenclature is for those old XM177s. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah: Originally Posted By grondike: Interesting pics. It looks like the same guy in both, but the carbine in the top picture appears to have a 10" barrel and the bottom one looks like 11.5". I don't think it's the same dude. Different hair, different watch. First carbine is an E1; second is an E2, or whatever the USAF nomenclature is for those old XM177s. I think the first pic is a bit earlier than the second. The second shows the General with a Saudi rank badge on his right pocket flap, and although you can't see his boots in the first pic, the guy behind him (staff member?) looks like he has black boots on, which would have been very early Desert Shield. Other than hair (and watch, and promask, etc.), the PSD guy's face looks the same to me. I would say same vest, but those were probably standard issue from someplace like Abercrombie & Fitch or Eddie Bauer. |
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Posted: 6/21/2024 11:14:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grondike: Norm has different watches too. I think the first pic is a bit earlier than the second. The second shows the General with a Saudi rank badge on his right pocket flap, and although you can't see his boots in the first pic, the guy behind him (staff member?) looks like he has black boots on, which would have been very early Desert Shield. Other than hair (and watch, and promask, etc.), the PSD guy's face looks the same to me. I would say same vest, but those were probably standard issue from someplace like Abercrombie & Fitch or Eddie Bauer. He wore two watches at the same time: a Seiko on one wrist and a Rolex on the other. These are the dates listed for the photos which may or may not be accurate: the first is from August 31, 1990, the second is from January 14, 1991 This one is labeled Dec 30, 1991 
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Posted: 6/22/2024 6:50:10 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: He wore two watches at the same time: a Seiko on one wrist and a Rolex on the other. These are the dates listed for the photos which may or may not be accurate: the first is from August 31, 1990, the second is from January 14, 1991 This one is labeled Dec 30, 1991 https://i.imgur.com/Pqq27r8.jpeg Looks like the same PSD guy as in the first two pics, but no way to tell which carbine he has. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2024 11:06:19 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: He wore two watches at the same time: a Seiko on one wrist and a Rolex on the other. These are the dates listed for the photos which may or may not be accurate: the first is from August 31, 1990, the second is from January 14, 1991 This one is labeled Dec 30, 1991 https://i.imgur.com/Pqq27r8.jpeg Love that the Delta guy on the far right of the pic is rocking a xm177e2. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 2:06:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Love that the Delta guy on the far right of the pic is rocking a xm177e2. Looks to me like it's missing the grenade ring. Some guys in SOG had unit armorers remove the moderators and grenade rings on their E2s and either thread an A1 hider on or thread the moderator back on without the ring. Not sure why but I've seen plenty of pics of SOG CAR-15s set up like that. Shorter and louder with the A1, but not sure why the deletion of the ring. |
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Posted: 6/22/2024 3:17:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grondike: It may have been two Seikos, and sometimes he switched up on which wrist he wore them on. Looks like the same PSD guy as in the first two pics, but no way to tell which carbine he has. Thanks for the correction, it definitely looks like a Seiko clasp |
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Posted: 6/25/2024 8:15:27 PM EDT
[#45]
If anyone would have a lead on, or have a Surefire M25 mount they'd be willing to part with, I'm in search of one for my build.
Also, does anyone know of a manufacturer that would make a a C7 upper in a Colt XM Grey to match an early 90's R6520 receiver? Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 10:24:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KavonTN]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Super_Trouper: If anyone would have a lead on, or have a Surefire M25 mount they'd be willing to part with, I'm in search of one for my build. Also, does anyone know of a manufacturer that would make a a C7 upper in a Colt XM Grey to match an early 90's R6520 receiver? Thanks! Clydes in Athens has colt 9mm parts kits listed on their website. In the photo it looks like an m25 with 660, may be just what you're looking for if you want to buy it for just the light.  https://clydearmory.com/colt-smg-9mm-parts-kit/ ETA: I'd call and confirm it's not a stock photo before buying. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 1:16:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KavonTN: Clydes in Athens has colt 9mm parts kits listed on their website. In the photo it looks like an m25 with 660, may be just what you're looking for if you want to buy it for just the light. https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ggkqvo693j/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/14045/8888/PXL_20240429_1658210742__36572.1714416695.jpg?c=1 https://clydearmory.com/colt-smg-9mm-parts-kit/ ETA: I'd call and confirm it's not a stock photo before buying. “The original auto sear, sear pin, disconnect and selector can be included upon presentation of an ATF-approved Form 4 for a machine gun, or if the buyer is a Class 3 dealer. Otherwise, these items are NOT included.” These are perfectly legal without the need for a Form 4 or a Class 2/3. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/26/2024 6:25:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mtomso7464]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By failure: He wore two watches at the same time: a Seiko on one wrist and a Rolex on the other. These are the dates listed for the photos which may or may not be accurate: the first is from August 31, 1990, the second is from January 14, 1991 This one is labeled Dec 30, 1991 https://i.imgur.com/Pqq27r8.jpeg Interesting he is wearing his wedding ring on the right hand. That is a European/German way. Unless its a west point ring, can't tell. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 6:46:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: “The original auto sear, sear pin, disconnect and selector can be included upon presentation of an ATF-approved Form 4 for a machine gun, or if the buyer is a Class 3 dealer. Otherwise, these items are NOT included.” These are perfectly legal without the need for a Form 4 or a Class 2/3. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Originally Posted By KavonTN: Clydes in Athens has colt 9mm parts kits listed on their website. In the photo it looks like an m25 with 660, may be just what you're looking for if you want to buy it for just the light. https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ggkqvo693j/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/14045/8888/PXL_20240429_1658210742__36572.1714416695.jpg?c=1 https://clydearmory.com/colt-smg-9mm-parts-kit/ ETA: I'd call and confirm it's not a stock photo before buying. “The original auto sear, sear pin, disconnect and selector can be included upon presentation of an ATF-approved Form 4 for a machine gun, or if the buyer is a Class 3 dealer. Otherwise, these items are NOT included.” These are perfectly legal without the need for a Form 4 or a Class 2/3. Oh I'm clear, that shop is about 40 minutes from me and while they have a good inventory they're always a pain to deal with. |
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Posted: 7/2/2024 12:58:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Anyone here got an Aimpoint 5000 polarizer they don’t use or want?
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