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Stupid question time
![]() How can one legally manufacture a MG ? Why was the original one cut up ? Can the new gun be sold / transfered ? What do I need to do to be able to make one legally? |
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Stupid question time ![]() How can one legally manufacture a MG ? Why was the original one cut up ? Can the new gun be sold / transfered ? What do I need to do to be able to make one legally? View Quote To sell for parts, after being imported as a non-transferable gun. Not to the general public, only to other SOTs. A manufacturing FFL and SOT paid up. |
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Stupid question time ![]() How can one legally manufacture a MG ? Why was the original one cut up ? Can the new gun be sold / transfered ? What do I need to do to be able to make one legally? View Quote If you hold an FFL type 07 or 10 AND a class 2 SOT, you can manufacture firearms including full autos on a form 1. That includes building from scratch or from a parts kit. As an SOT you can purchase machine guns from another SOT that is going out of business or not renewing their paperwork. You can purchase post-86 sample guns with a so-called "law letter" which is a letter of need written on agency letterhead stating they want to evaluate a certain gun for official use. As far as why the original was cut up, it was surplussed and import requirements mandate it be destroyed, although it's usually done in a way that you can reassemble it in a non-trivial fashion. The remanufactured MG is like any other post-86 sample at that point and can either be transferred with a law letter or when going out of business. In order to make one, you need to comply with all that ^^^ and be in a profit-driven business, not just jumping through the hoops to build your collection. |
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I'm not an FFL or an SOT, so I may be slightly wrong about this, but I've looked into the process and here's what I remember. If you hold an FFL type 07 or 10 AND a class 2 SOT, you can manufacture firearms including full autos on a form 1. That includes building from scratch or from a parts kit. As an SOT you can purchase machine guns from another SOT that is going out of business or not renewing their paperwork. You can purchase post-86 sample guns with a so-called "law letter" which is a letter of need written on agency letterhead stating they want to evaluate a certain gun for official use. As far as why the original was cut up, it was surplussed and import requirements mandate it be destroyed, although it's usually done in a way that you can reassemble it in a non-trivial fashion. The remanufactured MG is like any other post-86 sample at that point and can either be transferred with a law letter or when going out of business. In order to make one, you need to comply with all that ^^^ and be in a profit-driven business, not just jumping through the hoops to build your collection. View Quote ![]() |
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You are building a full auto Uzi. Most here could build a full auto ar 15. Surely yours is legal or we would not be seeing it here. Please explain to a dumbass what's going on. View Quote ![]() |
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Notice the G https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/144D83C7-4277-4EBD-AFCE-A4C122056A92_jpeg-1086685.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You are building a full auto Uzi. Most here could build a full auto ar 15. Surely yours is legal or we would not be seeing it here. Please explain to a dumbass what's going on. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/144D83C7-4277-4EBD-AFCE-A4C122056A92_jpeg-1086685.JPG Government Good Great Get some G means made in the 7 month Revision G Fuck I give up. |
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That G don't mean jack to me. Government Good Great Get some G means made in the 7 month Revision G Fuck I give up. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You are building a full auto Uzi. Most here could build a full auto ar 15. Surely yours is legal or we would not be seeing it here. Please explain to a dumbass what's going on. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/144D83C7-4277-4EBD-AFCE-A4C122056A92_jpeg-1086685.JPG Government Good Great Get some G means made in the 7 month Revision G Fuck I give up. |
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You are building a full auto Uzi. Most here could build a full auto ar 15. Surely yours is legal or we would not be seeing it here. Please explain to a dumbass what's going on. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/144D83C7-4277-4EBD-AFCE-A4C122056A92_jpeg-1086685.JPG Government Good Great Get some G means made in the 7 month Revision G Fuck I give up. |
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I did buy it, but since it didn't fit I had to "massage" it a little with the abrasive disc on the angle grinder. It still works fine but just be advised it's not in original form. When I know I'm all finished with this build I'll loan it to you guys.
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Ok so I made major progress yesterday, and really started to get a feel for TIG welding. I welded the rear handguard mounting stud on and it came out pretty clean, I didn't grind on this at all just sandblasted it.
![]() I still get occasional imperfections but that's mostly due to the scratch start (and stop) machine I'm using. It'll probably take a LOT of practice to prevent those, or maybe I can upgrade the torch to have a button. After fitting the top cover I realized I screwed up cutting the rear section off even worse than I had originally thought. Which created a large gap that I had to fill in with weld, given the circumstances this didn't turn out too bad. ![]() Then I used the angle grinder/abrasive disc to clean up the welds and try to reshape the stiffening ribs. Then sandblasted it. Like I have said all through the thread, not perfect but I'm happy with it for my first one. ![]() I think when I paint it, it's gonna look even better. The bottom had the largest gap and it really looks like one piece now. I'm glad I cut the rear section off and used the original one from the parts kit. ![]() The top cover fits GREAT, better than I had envisioned. It snaps securely without binding, it does overhang just a tad from the port on the receiver but I think it'll be fine. The bolt fits perfect and moves freely (I did have to clean up just a tiny bit of weld on the inside because I couldn't keep the aluminum jig in there). The grip stick fits nicely, the selector makes the trigger and bolt function as it should (safe semi and full) when hand cycling. The only reason I didn't test fire it is I still have to weld the feed ramp in, and I have to cut the semi-auto ring off of it. And I also need to install the ejector. Since I carefully ground the head off the old rivet I'll probably just tap it back in and weld the bottom in place of the rivet head. |
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Next I threw the barrel in it and stuck the handguards on, the threaded 3 lug barrel looks great.
![]() I'm excited to get the feed ramp and ejector in so I can try to shoot it. Then a coat of paint and it's done! |
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Next I threw the barrel in it and stuck the handguards on, the threaded 3 lug barrel looks great. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/Left_Side_jpg-1087677.JPG I'm excited to get the feed ramp and ejector in so I can try to shoot it. Then a coat of paint and it's done! View Quote ![]() You are going to need to clean up the welds around the grip/rear stock lug for both metal and wood stocks to engage. When my stamp arrives, I am going for the 3-lug barrel for my Raptor II can. |
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Next I threw the barrel in it and stuck the handguards on, the threaded 3 lug barrel looks great. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/Left_Side_jpg-1087677.JPG I'm excited to get the feed ramp and ejector in so I can try to shoot it. Then a coat of paint and it's done! View Quote ![]() |
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Looks like an Uzi! ![]() You are going to need to clean up the welds around the grip/rear stock lug for both metal and wood stocks to engage. When my stamp arrives, I am going for the 3-lug barrel for my Raptor II can. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Next I threw the barrel in it and stuck the handguards on, the threaded 3 lug barrel looks great. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/Left_Side_jpg-1087677.JPG I'm excited to get the feed ramp and ejector in so I can try to shoot it. Then a coat of paint and it's done! ![]() You are going to need to clean up the welds around the grip/rear stock lug for both metal and wood stocks to engage. When my stamp arrives, I am going for the 3-lug barrel for my Raptor II can. Nice! I don't know which can I'll use. Hybrid will look good I think. Maybe Cosmic? |
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I own a SWD mini registered bolt, which the parts were available like they are for the full sized uzi. Need a open bolt top cover, and all they sell are the closed bolt ones.
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I just used the whole repair section and cut everything off the parts kit. Didnt run well with the first barrel I got, but the second barrel I tried from a friend worked. The first barrel was a parkerized one from rtg, second was someone else nitride barrel. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi3-1087782.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi4-1087783.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi5-1087788.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi7-1087792.jpg View Quote |
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I just used the whole repair section and cut everything off the parts kit. Didnt run well with the first barrel I got, but the second barrel I tried from a friend worked. The first barrel was a parkerized one from rtg, second was someone else nitride barrel. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi3-1087782.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi4-1087783.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi5-1087788.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146382/uzi7-1087792.jpg ![]() |
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Good news and bad news. I finished it and test fired!
Bad news is the length is off by a bit. Not the OAL, the top cover set that correctly. But the barrel sits too far back on the feed ramp so the rounds can't ride up it properly and chamber. And the stock doesn't reach the shelf on the grip lug. Basically the front needs to be lengthened and the back needs to be shortened by the same amount. Which means I have to cut the receiver back apart twice and re-weld. Not where I wanted to end up but it's not surprising that the only length I set using the RTG jig (the front) turned out to be wrong. Fuck that piece of shit jig. Anyway it's a good learning experience and I'll get it right....eventually lol ![]() |
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In the future, you'd probably be happy to have some copper plate or various sizes of copper flat bar stock available in your shop... used as a backer, it gives a wonderfully flat surface to fill against when welding. Get a piece proper for what you're trying to patch/repair, clamp it on the inside, and weld away. It would help prevent issues such as having to grind inside of the receiver.
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So is there a consensus around what jig to use for these builds? Looks like the RTG jig is junk.
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So is there a consensus around what jig to use for these builds? Looks like the RTG jig is junk. View Quote Here is a link to his full size Uzi jig, which is currently in stock. I've personally used his Micro Uzi, KGKT, PM63, DPM, Bren, and ZB-37 welding jigs, and they've all been fantastic. Zero issues whatsoever. |
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In the future, you'd probably be happy to have some copper plate or various sizes of copper flat bar stock available in your shop... used as a backer, it gives a wonderfully flat surface to fill against when welding. Get a piece proper for what you're trying to patch/repair, clamp it on the inside, and weld away. It would help prevent issues such as having to grind inside of the receiver. View Quote ![]() |
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The best jigs on the market, for any build available, in my opinion... are from Cajun Country. Amazing quality, and great service, but it's a one man shop so it can be a while between production runs. Here is a link to his full size Uzi jig, which is currently in stock. I've personally used his Micro Uzi, KGKT, PM63, DPM, Bren, and ZB-37 welding jigs, and they've all been fantastic. Zero issues whatsoever. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So is there a consensus around what jig to use for these builds? Looks like the RTG jig is junk. Here is a link to his full size Uzi jig, which is currently in stock. I've personally used his Micro Uzi, KGKT, PM63, DPM, Bren, and ZB-37 welding jigs, and they've all been fantastic. Zero issues whatsoever. Just looked at that Uzi jig it's two piece and cheaper, son of a BITCH I wish I bought that one. You can't use the RTG jig to weld a rear section on because you can't remove it after. |
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Good news and bad news. I finished it and test fired! Bad news is the length is off by a bit. Not the OAL, the top cover set that correctly. But the barrel sits too far back on the feed ramp so the rounds can't ride up it properly and chamber. And the stock doesn't reach the shelf on the grip lug. Basically the front needs to be lengthened and the back needs to be shortened by the same amount. Which means I have to cut the receiver back apart twice and re-weld. Not where I wanted to end up but it's not surprising that the only length I set using the RTG jig (the front) turned out to be wrong. Fuck that piece of shit jig. Anyway it's a good learning experience and I'll get it right....eventually lol https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/E156B8C3-D105-4A8E-9A88-71449F5E184A_jpeg-1088508.JPG View Quote |
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When visiting my Dad two weeks ago he gave me some copper plate just for that reason, and I forgot it at his house ![]() View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
When visiting my Dad two weeks ago he gave me some copper plate just for that reason, and I forgot it at his house ![]() ![]() Quoted:
I was looking at that place for an RPD jig, he answered my email right away. I will try him next. Just looked at that Uzi jig it's two piece and cheaper, son of a BITCH I wish I bought that one. You can't use the RTG jig to weld a rear section on because you can't remove it after. The bad part is once his jig came out and word got around that the "ruined" kits could finally be built... the price skyrocketed from a few hundred bucks for barrels/cans/kit/tripod/loader, to a couple thousand. |
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Holy shit thank you. I really wish I had those to start with lol View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Sorry. I just found a folder with those diagrams in it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Sorry to interrupt...
Well shit. Just did the permanent install mod to the wood stock hardware. How do I attach the stock now to the hardware? Does the bracket need to be tapped for the two underside bolts/screws now that the bolts/screws can only be inserted from under the stock? If I have to tap the bracket and buy machine bolts. What size and pitch? Also, what wood is this before I ruin it? It has been sitting out in AZ heat for days and is oozing all sorts of colors out. Oil and cosmoline. |
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What are you describing? my Uzi stocks lock in on the bottom with a button View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Sorry to interrupt... Well shit. Just did the permanent install mod to the wood stock hardware. When making a permanently attached stock, there is no way to attach these two bolts from the inside. This is some BATFE bs related to the carbine being too short with a quick release stock. I will probably just wait for the stamp to arrive. |
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The two bolts that attach the stock to the metal mounting bracket. There is a wood screw that goes in from the heel of the stock bracket. There are also two bolts/screws that thread into nuts pressed into the stock. When making a permanently attached stock, there is no way to attach these two bolts from the inside. This is some BATFE bs related to the carbine being too short with a quick release stock. I will probably just wait for the stamp to arrive. View Quote edit: actually, I did mine a couple years ago before this was posted, but its the same method i did use. |
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I believe these were the instructions I used, https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/-/48-452501/ , but it was a long time ago. edit: actually, I did mine a couple years ago before this was posted, but its the same method i did use. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The two bolts that attach the stock to the metal mounting bracket. There is a wood screw that goes in from the heel of the stock bracket. There are also two bolts/screws that thread into nuts pressed into the stock. When making a permanently attached stock, there is no way to attach these two bolts from the inside. This is some BATFE bs related to the carbine being too short with a quick release stock. I will probably just wait for the stamp to arrive. edit: actually, I did mine a couple years ago before this was posted, but its the same method i did use. I have already removed the round stud that fits into the rear of the receiver from the mounting bracket. I also drilled a 1/4" hole though it to allow the use of the folding stock mounting hardware screw and shortened nut. I am going to tap the bracket and call it a day. |
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Thanks. Sorry for the thread hijack 10mm_ I have already removed the round stud that fits into the rear of the receiver from the mounting bracket. I also drilled a 1/4" hole though it to allow the use of the folding stock mounting hardware screw and shortened nut. I am going to tap the bracket and call it a day. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The two bolts that attach the stock to the metal mounting bracket. There is a wood screw that goes in from the heel of the stock bracket. There are also two bolts/screws that thread into nuts pressed into the stock. When making a permanently attached stock, there is no way to attach these two bolts from the inside. This is some BATFE bs related to the carbine being too short with a quick release stock. I will probably just wait for the stamp to arrive. edit: actually, I did mine a couple years ago before this was posted, but its the same method i did use. I have already removed the round stud that fits into the rear of the receiver from the mounting bracket. I also drilled a 1/4" hole though it to allow the use of the folding stock mounting hardware screw and shortened nut. I am going to tap the bracket and call it a day. |
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Alright boys, I had a productive weekend. So I did end up cutting the receiver back apart, in two locations.
I used the dimensions posted by TheYellowThing to check my spacing, and my handgaurd mounting stud holes were about 1/8" too close to each other. (Actually .135") This brought the trunnion too close to the center of the gun which had the barrel too close to the feed ramp. I cut the front off and re-welded, again more practice with the TIG which I really needed. ![]() ![]() ![]() The tacks on the end look like trash because A: I used too large of a filler rod and B: it's very hard for me to bridge a large gap like that without globbing it on. ![]() This got the barrel in the right spot, however the back needed to be shortened so the top cover would fit and so the stock would reach the grip mounting lug. |
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I cut the back off (yay for sharp bandsaw blades) and brought it in a little to fix the length. It's pretty obvious how much easier it is to weld when the butt joint is actually butted together lol
![]() Now the top cover and receiver ejection port openings are lined up much better ![]() After all that I still had problems with the feed ramp, it's like it's too low. Which at first seemed weird because everyone told me the semi auto ramps are too tall. But what I think happened was the feed ramp kept the chamber end of the barrel from sitting low enough, which made the front "droop" a little when I welded it back on the second time. I cut the feed ramp back out and welded a patch under it then welded it back down which worked as far as feeding geometry, but then the bottom of the bolt hit the feed ramp ![]() I reshaped the feed ramp with a dremel to get it to both feed rounds and clear the bolt, and it works! ![]() ![]() ![]() Failed To Load Title |
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I cut the back off (yay for sharp bandsaw blades) and brought it in a little to fix the length. It's pretty obvious how much easier it is to weld when the butt joint is actually butted together lol https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8274_jpg-1092203.JPG Now the top cover and receiver ejection port openings are lined up much better https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8259_jpg-1092204.JPG After all that I still had problems with the feed ramp, it's like it's too low. Which at first seemed weird because everyone told me the semi auto ramps are too tall. But what I think happened was the feed ramp kept the chamber end of the barrel from sitting low enough, which made the front "droop" a little when I welded it back on the second time. I cut the feed ramp back out and welded a patch under it then welded it back down which worked as far as feeding geometry, but then the bottom of the bolt hit the feed ramp ![]() I reshaped the feed ramp with a dremel to get it to both feed rounds and clear the bolt, and it works! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8276_jpg-1092211.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8281_jpg-1092212.JPG ![]() View Quote |
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Looking back, most of the problems I had were due to that piece of shit jig from RTG, not having the dimensions to start, and using the wrong feed ramp. I don't regret cutting the back off to use the parts kit rear section, I don't think that caused many problems really.
Oh I also ended up cutting the RTG jig into 3 pieces, since it didn't do shit for setting the overall length I figured it could as least serve as a weld backer (it did). NO way would I ever use their receiver section again, nor would I recommend the jig. Overall it was a great learning experience, and I'm going to build something else next (possibly RPD, possibly CETME, probably CZ26). I have a few parts kits and all the tools now, I just need time lol. Since this build didn't turn out picture perfect but it does work, I decided to paint it a crazy color. The wife and I picked out a nice glitter color, and some metallic gray to paint the MG42 with. Turns out the glitter is just glitter it doesn't cover like paint (think glitter mixed with clear coat). So I figured fuck it, I shot some neon orange on it and laid the glitter on top. The only reason you aren't seeing pics now is because it was dark last night before I finished the last coat and I wanted to let it dry and then assemble and get pics in the sunlight so the glitter pops. Hopefully this afternoon! |
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I cut the back off (yay for sharp bandsaw blades) and brought it in a little to fix the length. It's pretty obvious how much easier it is to weld when the butt joint is actually butted together lol https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8274_jpg-1092203.JPG Now the top cover and receiver ejection port openings are lined up much better https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8259_jpg-1092204.JPG After all that I still had problems with the feed ramp, it's like it's too low. Which at first seemed weird because everyone told me the semi auto ramps are too tall. But what I think happened was the feed ramp kept the chamber end of the barrel from sitting low enough, which made the front "droop" a little when I welded it back on the second time. I cut the feed ramp back out and welded a patch under it then welded it back down which worked as far as feeding geometry, but then the bottom of the bolt hit the feed ramp ![]() I reshaped the feed ramp with a dremel to get it to both feed rounds and clear the bolt, and it works! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8276_jpg-1092211.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389530/IMG_8281_jpg-1092212.JPG ![]() View Quote ![]() |
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I dig it!
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