In a follow up to this thread:   Linky
@gene5

For the first time in history, in its latest bid to seize the Mongols Motorcycle Club’s logos and collective membership marks, the federal government has successfully indicted the Mongols Nation as an entity comprised of every single full-patched member of a motorcycle club, on felony RICO racketeering and conspiracy charges regardless of personal guilt.

So, what happens next? What does this verdict mean for the Mongols MC, other motorcycle clubs in America, and the First Amendment to the US Constitution? There are definitely more questions than answers. But one thing is certain. The fight to Save The Patch is far from over. Now, more than ever, motorcycle clubs have a critical issue to mobilize around in order to preserve and insure the survival of a lifestyle and a culture.

Mongols Nation found guilty.

On December 13th, 2018, the Mongols Nation, defined as all full-patched members of the Mongols Motorcycle Club, was found guilty by a federal district court jury in Southern California under the federal RICO Act of racketeering and conspiring to engage in racketeering, for conducting and participating in the criminal enterprise called the Mongols Gang. The Mongols Gang is defined by the federal government as all patched members, prospects, and associates of the club. The federal government argued that, since 2002, the Mongols Gang has committed crimes ranging from drug dealing to murder at the direction and benefit of the Mongols Nation.

No one goes to jail?

Despite a verdict of guilt, no one will be incarcerated as a result. The crimes cited are historical and, in many cases, resolved. The goal here is di?erent. The government maintains that the club’s insignia and patches are an element of the criminal enterprise and a tool of intimidation. If the government gets its way during the sentencing phase, prosecutors argue they will literally be able to take the colors off a Mongol’s back.

The implications for the motorcycle club community at large are obvious. The federal government’s forfeiture strategy could ultimately be applied to other clubs in an attempt to crush the symbolism that defines association in motorcycle clubs. And completely independent of forfeiture, the idea that an entire motorcycle club can be defined as a criminal enterprise regardless of personal guilt also lays the foundation for other severe sentencing options such as excessive fines and asset forfeiture.

Personal guilt and the 1st Amendment.

Beyond immediate impacts to the Mongols MC, the US Attorney’s theory of prosecution compromises important judicial principles such as the doctrine of personal guilt, guilt by association, and the fundamental concepts of First Amendment Association and Expression. Indeed, the prosecution’s theory obliterates long-standing constitutional principles.

To permit the government to impose restrictions on any person “who wears the insignia of [the Mongols], without regard to or knowledge of that individual’s specific intent to engage in the alleged violent activities committed by other members, is antithetical to the basic principles enshrined in the First Amendment and repugnant to the fundamental doctrine of personal guilt that is a hallmark of American jurisprudence.” 1

Unanswered Questions.

Independent of collective membership mark issues, and even though no one is going to jail as a result this verdict, what are the potential implications of the Mongols Nation- meaning every member of the Mongols MC- being found guilty of two felony RICO counts? No individual person is specifically named in the indictment. But every member they want to seize property from must be an indicted individual in order to avoid the same judgement that gave the Mongols back their property initially.

Does this mean that every member of the club now has a felony record? Does this mean that members can be denied rights like voting and legal possession of a firearm? Does this mean that the Mongols MC has no 1st Amendment right to associate with one another because all patched members, the Mongols Nation, have been found to all be engaged in a criminal enterprise?

These questions, at least to the MPP, remain unanswered. So much focus has, understandably, been placed on the patch forfeiture issue that many of these questions haven’t yet been considered by those discussing and writing about this case.

The potential impacts are vast. Australia has no 1st Amendment so banning motorcycle club associations does not face the same obstacles as in America. The prosecution’s strategy in this case is, the MPP believes, the government’s most recent blueprint for circumventing the 1st Amendment and crushing motorcycle clubs in America.

What happens now?

The US v. Mongols Nation Trial, despite a guilty verdict, is still a long way from being over. After the first of the year, the jury will reconvene, enter the sentencing phase, and decide whether they agree with the government’s forfeiture requests. And even if the jury grants forfeiture, Judge Carter must then adjudicate the extensive legal and constitutional objections to forfeiture.

Fortunately, even if unsuccessful in every phase of this federal district court trial, the Mongols MC can appeal the decision as they previously did when they lost their patch in district court before overturned on appeal. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee what will happen in the interim if the Mongols marks are seized. If history repeats itself, the Mongols MC will be targeted, harassed, and have property and colors seized by authorities.

Make no mistake. This is NOT just about the Mongols MC. In a very real way, the motorcycle club lifestyle is under heavy attack and survival is not assured. This verdict demonstrates that reality. So, the community must not only continue to fight the good fight- the community must win.

Better remove your BFL off your truck, ARFCOM could be next!
Seems like an extreme over reach of the gubmints powers to define everyone in a club guilty simply by sporting the clubs colors.

If you fly the Jolly Roger, don't cry when you get treated like a pirate.

Applying that to forum membership is a sobering thought.

Ha ha!

See the post below yours.

I won’t white knight for trailer trash gangs on bikes but this sets a dangerous precedent. Imagine all the other ways broad RICO cases could be abused and think about who makes those decisions.

Guilt by association has no place in a free country.

Indeed,  a slippery slope, if this stands. Next multiple shooting could the boltface logo be verboten?

I'm sure many here will be lining up to say how great this is.

Very.

As far as white knighting for bikers, they always come for the unpopular people first. That's always how it starts.

Better keep a close watch on the EE.

You might be a member on a site that trafficked illegal high capacity magazines across state lines.

Give the lawyers enough time and they'll find a way.

Hasn't that case been going on for a while and the only thing the Mongols had left of any value were their copyrighted colors?

Pretty sure until internet forums and other clubs start requiring you to commit a violent felony witnessed by a full patch member to gain entry they are safe from being designated as an ongoing criminal enterprise.

A couple of years. I think a judge ruled against the feds seizure of their colors a few years ago so they could continue wearing them. Saw a half dozen at a bar wearing them a few weeks ago so I assume they won that case. Of course outlaws will outlaw so perhaps not.

I think celebrating this case is a tad shortsighted given the current political climate.

That's why I won't buy a team membership.

Hahaha nevermind, I'm just a cheapskate

What’s worse is they were wearing them at a bar in a town known to be Outlaws territory. I couldn’t recall if those two groups were feuding or not but since the latter frequents that establishment I figured they were ballsy enough. Unfortunately no Outlaws came in to provide the evenings entertainment.

At some point in the future, it could be considered just that, a bunch of crazy gun nutz.
Make enough of our hobby illegal & the left will treat us like criminals.
Wear a BFL on your shirt or a sticker on your truck, boom pulled over, house searched & your contraband confiscated.
It is a means to an end & as we see what's going on in CO & NJ, they will use the tools they have to destroy us.

Yet the Bloods, Crips, Nortenos, Surenos, MS13, etc are thriving.

So edgy new guy.

At least you're honest though.  

I don’t think they have copy-written trademarks.

Did Aimless sell his account or something?

I thought lawyers knew about slippery slopes and all that.

1st amendment is being eroded as well as the 2nd. Why not toss in the 4th and 5th? Those are just for criminals too right?

Clubs sanctioned by our overlords?

I think this means anyone can wear a Mongols MC patch

Oh well.

If those gangs were dumb enough to create a national corporate "club" entity and trademark their logo the feds would do the same thing to them.

But is it just a conspiracy theory to force a website to give up its membership base...
Then an anonymous source, just happens to 'red flag' everyone one...
Because at one time or another, everyone here has probably said something inflammatory or hurt someones feelings...

Crackpot theory or just possible?

How is this even remotely Constitutional?

So could you RICO every scout in BSA for conspiracy to commit sexual abuse of children?

The DOJ has been suing the quasi-legitimate asset structures of for profit criminal enterprises since RICO was invented to go after the Italian mafia families.

This has nothing to do with "red flag" laws or internet forums or gun clubs.

Is the stated purpose of the Boy Scouts to sexually abuse children for fun and profit? Because if it were, yes, they are subject to RICO.

Forming a for profit criminal enterprise is not protected by freedom of association.

In the eyes of the left the NRA and any other gun owning group is.   If they can do it to the OMGs now, they'll do it to us later.

So the opposite of this?  The government giveth and the government taketh away

Not really.the forum doesn’t exist for the purposes of criminal activity like a gang does.

I guess.  But we're not really talking about literal sea pirates.

We're talking about the government claiming that wearing a patch amounts to engaging in a deliberate criminal conspiracy.

You're not a member of any group of people that trades alot of velcro patches and has alot of members with a bit of an anti-government streak, are you?  

Not that hard for the government to do

When you join a gang, whose entire purpose is to make money doing crime, it’s not guilt by association.

This.

It doesn’t matter as long as it targets the people we don’t like. When it’s used against other groups in the future we won’t like it.

In before they rename it ANTIFA so they are protected.

It's the guilt by association part I have a problem with.   I don't have to like someone to support their rights.