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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:02:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Based on the eagles record I vote eagle
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:03:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Depends on definition of dog fight. Close in with guns it’s probably the 16. Simple air to air using missiles as soon as in range…Eagle
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:04:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Engaging at distance, I'd go with F-15. Close in, I'd go with F-16.
 eta. Damn! 35 seconds. 
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:05:02 PM EDT
[#4]
F16
I'm no expert, and I think the F15 is better long range, but there ain't much that can out rate an F16 if it's anywhere near a dogfight |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:05:20 PM EDT
[#5]
If the F16 gets close, the F15 is done; it simply can't turn as tight. I saw it many times while watching hud tapes. However, the F15 has a longer reach radar, so it gets to strike first.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:06:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on definition of dog fight. Close in with guns it’s probably the 16. Simple air to air using missiles as soon as in range…Eagle SPNI If it's a classical turning, WW2 style dogfight, F16 all the way Modern "dogfight" that's BVR? F15 |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:06:59 PM EDT
[#7]
My understanding is that f15s turn the slowest of the 3, I think in a dog fight (turning) it'd be pretty close between the f16 and f18, but I think the f16 is faster accelerating.
So, in a dog fight I'd go with f16 first, f18 2nd, f15 third. This is not the same as air superiority where I'd go f15 then f16 then f18. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:07:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Depends if the F-16 driver has an awesome soundtrack strapped to his leg.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:08:58 PM EDT
[#9]
F-16 if you make everyone play by its rules. (guns only fight)
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:09:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Which ever aircraft that can force the other in the fight their aircraft is best at.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:10:48 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:10:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends if the F-16 driver has an awesome soundtrack strapped to his leg. You need a hades bomb too. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:11:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Which one is in comms with the AWACS aircraft?
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:11:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is that f15s turn the slowest of the 3, I think in a dog fight (turning) it'd be pretty close between the f16 and f18, but I think the f16 is faster accelerating. So, in a dog fight I'd go with f16 first, f18 2nd, f15 third. This is not the same as air superiority where I'd go f15 then f16 then f18. F18 is technically limited to 7.5G's the 15 and 16 can pull 9 |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:11:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Whichever plane is best at being inverted
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:26:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I think people have thrown around this question a bit. I saw this article and had to read it. Upon reading it, a friend I know had to call BS on the prospective of the F-15 being slow. That is simply absurd. I would be interested in hearing what the pilots and aviation types here have to say. For the sake of discussion, let us consider the optimum version of each of these. I would suppose those would be : F-15 EX F-16V (Block 70/72) F-18 E/F (Block III) https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-15-vs-f-16-vs-f-a-18-the-aircrews-perspective/ None of the engagements mentioned in that article would have had been F-15s with the more powerful GE-129 engines that the EX has, though that advantage would only be there if it wasn't carrying CFTs. Is the fight guns only? What about off boresight AIM-9s/-120s? What is the pilot experience level? Having a second crew member in the EX and hornet would provide a bit of an advantage (that would decrease with pilot experience level). |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:29:57 PM EDT
[#17]
These sorts of details would probably be at least be considered a secret so I doubt a pilot who flew these would come in and say anything on this.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:30:36 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which ever aircraft that can force the other in the fight their aircraft is best at. ^This is the answer. That means it's the pilots that will determine who wins. That being said, F-15 Eagles rule the skies. ALBOB, MSgt (Ret), USAF F-15 Eagle Keeper
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:40:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based on the eagles record I vote eagle I’ve listened to Eagle pilots admire the hornet for stuff the hornet could do but the eagle couldn’t. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:45:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends if the F-16 driver has an awesome soundtrack strapped to his leg.  Iron Eagle - Doug at the test range |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:46:21 PM EDT
[#22]
When I was in the navy I was an F-14 plane captain for a while so I spent a lot of time out on the flight line when we were back at the beach. The hangar next to ours was some sort of skunk works type that had all sort of fighter aircraft.
My favorite was the F-16. It was tiny compared to the F-14 and F-15 and even the FA-18. Just from what I’ve seen from the ground my guess is it can fly circles around the bigger aircraft. I can’t speak to the weapons systems (only the F14) but I’m certain it remains supreme in maneuverability. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:53:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: F18 is technically limited to 7.5G's the 15 and 16 can pull 9 And are we talking about the old F/A-18C? Or the F/A-18E Super Hornet? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:53:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was in the navy I was an F-14 plane captain for a while so I spent a lot of time out on the flight line when we were back at the beach. The hangar next to ours was some sort of skunk works type that had all sort of fighter aircraft. My favorite was the F-16. It was tiny compared to the F-14 and F-15 and even the FA-18. Just from what I’ve seen from the ground my guess is it can fly circles around the bigger aircraft. I can’t speak to the weapons systems (only the F14) but I’m certain it remains supreme in maneuverability. You probably saw the F-16N.. apparently they were special. Like legit hot rods. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 1:56:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I was in the navy I was an F-14 plane captain for a while so I spent a lot of time out on the flight line when we were back at the beach. The hangar next to ours was some sort of skunk works type that had all sort of fighter aircraft. My favorite was the F-16. It was tiny compared to the F-14 and F-15 and even the FA-18. Just from what I’ve seen from the ground my guess is it can fly circles around the bigger aircraft. I can’t speak to the weapons systems (only the F14) but I’m certain it remains supreme in maneuverability. Yeah, but the Tomcat had STYLE. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:33:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends if the F-16 driver has an awesome soundtrack strapped to his leg.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:35:45 PM EDT
[#27]
The F15 would just punch it to create distance, then reengage.
It has a shit ton more thrust than a F16 so can create distance. Let countermeasures handle the missiles that would be inbound. I know nothing about modern dogfighting, as my post clearly shows... |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:38:49 PM EDT
[#28]
When comparing the F-16 Fighting Falcon and the F-15 Eagle in a hypothetical dogfight scenario, it is important to consider various factors. Both aircraft have unique characteristics that contribute to their overall performance.
The F-16, known for its exceptional agility and maneuverability, is designed as a lightweight multirole fighter. It excels in air-to-air combat as well as air-to-ground missions. The aircraft's smaller size and advanced fly-by-wire controls enable it to execute tight turns and quick maneuvers, making it highly maneuverable in a dogfight. On the other hand, the F-15 is a larger and more powerful aircraft, primarily designed for air superiority missions. It possesses a higher thrust-to-weight ratio, longer range, and faster maximum speed compared to the F-16. The F-15's advanced avionics and radar systems enhance situational awareness, enabling it to effectively detect and engage enemy aircraft. The outcome of a dogfight between these aircraft would depend on several factors, including the skill and experience of the pilots, situational awareness, tactics employed, and the specific variant and configuration of each aircraft. Additionally, other factors such as altitude, speed, and weapons capabilities would also influence the outcome. Overall, it is challenging to determine a definitive winner in a hypothetical dogfight scenario between the F-16 and F-15. Both aircraft have been successfully employed by various air forces worldwide, and their performance is highly dependent on the specific circumstances of the engagement. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:39:18 PM EDT
[#29]
I heard my name being called
The F16 and F18 are multirole combat aircraft and very capable, and the pilots need to be proficient in everything they do, not just air to air. However theF15 is optimized for air to air and that is all the pilot does. In a BVR environment I think the F15 has the edge both in experience of the pilot and capability of the jet. But it does hinge on pilot capability and can go either way. Adding in the complexity of large scale ops in a hostile environment I think the Eagle has a clear advantage. In a training configuration which is what we mostly do, the F16 can turn up it's own asshole and in a close in fight in clean configuration the F16 is a clearly superior turning machine. The F18 clearly has better maneuverability very slow speed, less than 200 knots, but again in a real fight if you are below 200 knots you are fucked if there is more than 1 threat. However, nobody hits the merge real world with a single missile on the rails and nobody willing throws out the anchor to fight below 200 knots, because in a near peer battle, we are out numbered and a sitting duck with limited ordinance and / or slow speed. In a combat configuration with a full load of missiles except for the ones employed on the way to the merge, I think the F15 can turn tighter that both the F16 and F18, and accelerate faster with a combat load The Eagle is big, but because it is big with big motors, it can do more G and sustain airspeed better than the F16 and F18 with a bunch of missiles hanging out in the air. But I am going back many years, things may have changed and I have never fought either jet with a combat load. Being optimized for air to air has an advantage in a real multi aircraft engagement but the outcome squarely rests with the pilot. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:42:36 PM EDT
[#30]
@mach
What is the highest you ever flew in a F15? What was the view like? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:43:00 PM EDT
[#31]
why you think FX version is best for a dogfight?
Too many variables, if within visual range, and both slow, F18 If within visual range and both fast, F16 If outside visual range, F15 |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 2:49:50 PM EDT
[#32]
In a classic turning fight the big mouth/GE motor F-16 drivers will pour on the power and out rate just about any 4th gen fighter around the corner.
The superbug can get slow, crank it and point his nose at you. Kinda mitigated in modern WVR by high off-boresight missiles. F-15 is the most wing and power at high altitude. There are so many different versions, scenarios and load outs to boil this down to best. I think the latest generation eurofighters are probably the overall best performing 4th gen. Good AESA radar, high endurance, speed, turn rates etc. The F-16 is the most performance per dollar spent. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:02:08 PM EDT
[#33]
The one with the better pilot.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:05:33 PM EDT
[#34]
F/A-18 just based on the fact that naval aviators are simply more highly trained pilots. They face far more stressful operations than a runway pilot could fathom and in an all things being otherwise equal fight, should handle the stress better than the lesser trained pilots. I would imagine there should be minimal differences avionics wise and they all use the same weapons, countermeasures, etc. Plus the F/A-18 should be able to sustain more fatigue and damage than the runway based planes. Maybe I am biased.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:06:32 PM EDT
[#35]
F15, especially the EX, mops the floor with the 16 and 18.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:07:09 PM EDT
[#36]
F-18 has great nose authority if speeds get low.
F-16A dumpsters all of them in a guns only fight. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:10:04 PM EDT
[#37]
debates like this are hilarious because all of those aircraft have programs that all of us are ignorant to. Things that play into the scenario and we don't know anything about and cant add them to the debate
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:10:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Depends if Tom cruise is flying it or not
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:12:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: However theF15 is optimized for air to air and that is all the pilot does. Not a pound for air to ground. 
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:16:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard my name being called The F16 and F18 are multirole combat aircraft and very capable, and the pilots need to be proficient in everything they do, not just air to air. However theF15 is optimized for air to air and that is all the pilot does. In a BVR environment I think the F15 has the edge both in experience of the pilot and capability of the jet. But it does hinge on pilot capability and can go either way. Adding in the complexity of large scale ops in a hostile environment I think the Eagle has a clear advantage. In a training configuration which is what we mostly do, the F16 can turn up it's own asshole and in a close in fight in clean configuration the F16 is a clearly superior turning machine. The F18 clearly has better maneuverability very slow speed, less than 200 knots, but again in a real fight if you are below 200 knots you are fucked if there is more than 1 threat. However, nobody hits the merge real world with a single missile on the rails and nobody willing throws out the anchor to fight below 200 knots, because in a near peer battle, we are out numbered and a sitting duck with limited ordinance and / or slow speed. In a combat configuration with a full load of missiles except for the ones employed on the way to the merge, I think the F15 can turn tighter that both the F16 and F18, and accelerate faster with a combat load The Eagle is big, but because it is big with big motors, it can do more G and sustain airspeed better than the F16 and F18 with a bunch of missiles hanging out in the air. But I am going back many years, things may have changed and I have never fought either jet with a combat load. Being optimized for air to air has an advantage in a real multi aircraft engagement but the outcome squarely rests with the pilot. Great stuff! |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:21:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: debates like this are hilarious because all of those aircraft have programs that all of us are ignorant to. Things that play into the scenario and we don't know anything about and cant add them to the debate It's like a Batman vs Superman discussion, just enjoy it.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:21:45 PM EDT
[#42]
MUDHEN FOR THE WIN!
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:23:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great stuff! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I heard my name being called The F16 and F18 are multirole combat aircraft and very capable, and the pilots need to be proficient in everything they do, not just air to air. However theF15 is optimized for air to air and that is all the pilot does. In a BVR environment I think the F15 has the edge both in experience of the pilot and capability of the jet. But it does hinge on pilot capability and can go either way. Adding in the complexity of large scale ops in a hostile environment I think the Eagle has a clear advantage. In a training configuration which is what we mostly do, the F16 can turn up it's own asshole and in a close in fight in clean configuration the F16 is a clearly superior turning machine. The F18 clearly has better maneuverability very slow speed, less than 200 knots, but again in a real fight if you are below 200 knots you are fucked if there is more than 1 threat. However, nobody hits the merge real world with a single missile on the rails and nobody willing throws out the anchor to fight below 200 knots, because in a near peer battle, we are out numbered and a sitting duck with limited ordinance and / or slow speed. In a combat configuration with a full load of missiles except for the ones employed on the way to the merge, I think the F15 can turn tighter that both the F16 and F18, and accelerate faster with a combat load The Eagle is big, but because it is big with big motors, it can do more G and sustain airspeed better than the F16 and F18 with a bunch of missiles hanging out in the air. But I am going back many years, things may have changed and I have never fought either jet with a combat load. Being optimized for air to air has an advantage in a real multi aircraft engagement but the outcome squarely rests with the pilot. Great stuff! Just when I really start to think this place is becoming a lost cause a real SME posts something like that and keeps me around. For anyone interested in this exact scenario look up Growling Sidewinder on YouTube. Yes, it's a simulator with civilians flying but he has a ton of videos dogfighting different stuff. The F-16 kills just about everything in a rate fight. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:23:30 PM EDT
[#44]
pitbull
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:23:30 PM EDT
[#45]
If you are in a dogfight, you probably screwed up. The idea is to shoot them down before you get that close. Where is your wingman? Is he out of long-range missiles too? If you did screw up, I would hope your training is way superior to that of your opponent regardless of what fighter you are flying. If I was going to be in a dogfight I want the A Team: F-22, F-35, or F-15 EX. In this day and age, the B Team is not the best plan.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:30:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are in a dogfight, you probably screwed up. The idea is to shoot them down before you get that close. Where is your wingman? Is he out of long-range missiles too? If you did screw up, I would hope your training is way superior to that of your opponent regardless of what fighter you are flying. Oh yeah...that goes against everything we learned between Korea and NAM. I korea we had a kill ratio of 13-1 and then in Nam it fell to 3:1 because our dog fighting skills lacked. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:34:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Whoever is driving it, makes the difference.
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:38:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based on the eagles record I vote eagle |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:39:13 PM EDT
[#49]
F-22
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Posted: 6/15/2023 3:39:42 PM EDT
[#50]
This is the gayest question asked since "what this the best brunch on South Beach."
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