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Posted: 6/28/2022 6:32:42 PM EDT
There was a lot of hype about this Dead Air Sierra 5. The buildup was like one calendar year complete with "teaser style delayed marketing release". This video shows the night flash and sound performance of the Dead Air Sierra 5, and it also shows the performance of the Griffin HUB mount 5.56mm can, and the comparable tube over baffle Griffin HRT suppressor which some people might consider to be more comparable to the Sierra 5's tube over baffle construction. The flash testing was done on a 14.5" M4A1 barrel with PMC 55 grain Bronze ammunition.
For a company that has never made a 5.56mm suppressor, the Sierra 5 was a decent first attempt. The Griffin HRT was designed to meet the requirements of the FBI's HRT solicitation. It was not entered into competition because the solicitation gave companies no time to design to suit.  Dead Air® SIERRA-5 | DUAL-LOK™ HRT-556™ | EXPLORR® .224 | Sound Testing Overview |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 6:46:47 PM EDT
[#1]
@Mageever
@Atlmike @Green0 When is the full auto torture test? |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:18:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Mageever @Atlmike @Green0 When is the full auto torture test? We are testing sound and flash, those are two of the things many people in the threads have asked for- they are pretty straightforward tests conducted at room temperature without damage. I did recently do an endurance test of the Dual Lok 5 suppressor which is an 11.8 ounce can, and I think that video is going to be released as support for the launch of our Dual Lok suppressors at some point in the next few weeks so people will be able to see a Dual Lok can getting run hard. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:19:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Mageever @Atlmike @Green0 When is the full auto torture test? I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:27:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. LOL |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:28:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Nice to see some qualitative flash comparisons. Thanks.
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:31:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice to see some qualitative flash comparisons. Thanks. Thanks- We tested a bunch more stuff, but we're going to be releasing it with the videos. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:32:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. That’s what she said. 
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:32:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. I regret buying the Griffin copy of an Octane 9 several years back. Wow. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:33:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Absolutely howling laughing. Thanks, bro.
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:41:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. I thought for a minute I was reading a review from Wine Speculator.  Of course none of us knows how much work or how many attempts goes into a design. With the latest crop of 5.56 offerings the stamp blessers are going to be busy. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:45:50 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:49:52 PM EDT
[#12]
How does the Recce5 Mod4 stack up?
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:54:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the Recce5 Mod4 stack up? The Mod 4 is a can murderer, but it's slightly longer and not lighter, and that probably makes a comparison less fair. We try to pick silencers of some similar attachment or size or weight for the comparisons to be sort of fair. If a suppressor is out of size or weight we prefer to be the underdog with the lighter or shorter can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quku2UBNcJw |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 7:59:44 PM EDT
[#14]
I don't have the fancy equipment you do, but in person our opinions of the sound/noise appear to match your results. It's a nice can, but I'll take an EXPLORR 224 over it.
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Posted: 6/28/2022 8:10:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. I love this place |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 8:28:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Oh and how do I get an HRT can to play with
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Posted: 6/28/2022 9:15:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I regret buying the Griffin copy of an Octane 9 several years back. Wow. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. I regret buying the Griffin copy of an Octane 9 several years back. Wow. I don't regret having Griffin upgrade my Octane a year or so ago. The performance of their "copied" baffles mysteriously stomps the shit out of the originals. Weird. They posted some performance comparisons of recent cans like everyone wants, which is helpful for those making purchasing decisions currently. They've also posted comparisons where their own can did not come out on top (Nomad beat the 30 cal Explorr in several categories, I LOVE my Nomad 30) . Manufacturers competing for our business benefits us, this is a good thing. If people want to make their buying decisions based on hurt feels rather than data (albeit data provided by a competing manufacturer), then by all means enjoy your lower performance, more expensive, yet virtue-signalling purchase that you now get to wait 3-12 months for  While a torture test comparison would be loads of fun to watch, I'm far more interested in weight, sound, and flash performance since I don't have a M249 Para and pallets of free ammo  Thanks for the video!
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Posted: 6/28/2022 9:17:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Great video, thanks. I might have to pick up an Explorr for my 16” AR. It’s got an overgassed carbine gas system though, so it probably wouldn’t be able to live up to those numbers at the ear.
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Posted: 6/28/2022 9:23:35 PM EDT
[#19]
When is the Recce 5 going to have a HUB option?
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Posted: 6/28/2022 9:35:36 PM EDT
[#20]
was the flash testing just those 3 rounds? curious to know how representative it is of spirited (not dumping) 2-3 mag firing cycles.
Quoted: When is the Recce 5 going to have a HUB option? also, seconds on this |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 11:36:50 PM EDT
[#21]
The way this comparison was framed/worded doesn't change my mind regarding purchasing a Griffin can over a Dead Air one - I have a feeling many will feel the same as I do.
It just make me want to stay further away from Griffin in general. |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 11:38:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The way this comparison was framed/worded doesn't change my mind regarding purchasing a Griffin can over a Dead Air one - I have a feeling many will feel the same as I do. It just make me want to stay further away from Griffin in general. Ironic |
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Posted: 6/28/2022 11:40:26 PM EDT
[#23]
I love this place
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Posted: 6/29/2022 12:04:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Why is the front of the suppressor forward of the mic location, dissimilar to the bare muzzle device on the unsuppressed baselines?
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Posted: 6/29/2022 7:23:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The way this comparison was framed/worded doesn't change my mind regarding purchasing a Griffin can over a Dead Air one - I have a feeling many will feel the same as I do. It just make me want to stay further away from Griffin in general. I do not regret purchasing a DA can over any Griffen can. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 8:05:57 AM EDT
[#26]
@green0
This was cool. Were the rifles tuned at all for optimal performance? Or are they 'stock' rifles? |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 8:53:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: was the flash testing just those 3 rounds? curious to know how representative it is of spirited (not dumping) 2-3 mag firing cycles. also, seconds on this You have a good point. We just tested an NT4 and it did remarkably well, and then we saw TFB Silencer Saturday with burst and auto fire and it had copious flash in daylight in their video. So I guess a can could have decent flash on semi-auto and flop on burst or auto. We needed controls and photos with 1000iso were what we decided to do. The settings replicated eye visible flash. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 8:57:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When is the Recce 5 going to have a HUB option? We didn’t have any plans to do this currently. It seems a bit odd to couple a heavier high durability can with a mount that could potentially loosen at some point. Maybe Im in the minority with that opinion. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 9:04:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is the front of the suppressor forward of the mic location, dissimilar to the bare muzzle device on the unsuppressed baselines? This was suggested ~8years ago by silencer co. At that time that was what they were doing and they probably have not changed. They and some acoustical scientists they were paying through the ASA, made an argument for this in a meeting at shot show, and I initially had an aversion to change but later saw the lucid points in the argument of we are measuring change at a reference position and if we then change the position, we introduce a second variable that destroys the validity of our reference data by not being relative to the original reference position. More recently TBAC has talked about supersonic flight noise and it seems this is another weakness of the 1m left of suppressor muzzle position. I think the method stabilizes measurement anomalies relative to geometries of suppressor muzzles slightly. You still have cheater muzzles like the Sig SLX’s 1.1” deep cone, but thats a bazaar outlier. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 9:08:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @green0 This was cool. Were the rifles tuned at all for optimal performance? Or are they 'stock' rifles? The rifles are stock Griffin MK1 rifles. We actually ran an endurance test on the 11.5 a few days before the test. I didn’t want to use the gun, but it was used because a photographer liked the optics, and it didn’t appear worse for wear. The numbers didn’t seem noticeably higher for it. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 10:00:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating. Ill still buy the Sierra 5 just due to the knurling. I was wondering does the Explorr .224 have self baffle removal after the first mag like some of the Recce cans?
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Posted: 6/29/2022 10:33:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love this place This is one of the busiest threads in the sub-forum right now. That would be cool if it were over technical merits instead of social, popularity contest concerns. Probably puts more eyes on the video comparison so there’s that. One thing I’ve noticed in many of Griffin’s vids where the unsuppressed host is tested as a baseline, it clearly demonstrates how brakes (particularly on shorter barrels) deliver a 2 to 6 dB higher hit at the ears than at the 1-meter left of muzzle reference position. Conventional wisdom is brakes only hammer/bother the fudds to the left and right on the firing line. Shooters anticipate blast so they don’t think they are thumping themselves, only the spectators. At 170 dB a 2dB increase at the ears over a meter to the side is a substantial increase in absolute pressure units. I’ve yet to see testing on blast shrouds that are available to put over some brakes. It does seem like open prong flash hiders are the least concussive (to the shooter), muzzle devices. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 11:44:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ill still buy the Sierra 5 just due to the knurling. I was wondering does the Explorr .224 have self baffle removal after the first mag like some of the Recce cans? I think the rattling “feature” is just in the Reece. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ill still buy the Sierra 5 just due to the knurling. I was wondering does the Explorr .224 have self baffle removal after the first mag like some of the Recce cans? There never was self baffle "removal"- that's a gross misrepresentation of the issue- no cans ever came apart- but I get what you mean on the rattle issue, we went to laser welding for the Recce core, so it's a better welding process and is automated now. The Laser welding is superior to tig. Sound performance and thermal management improved a little bit with laser welding also due to how the eco-flow baffles theoretically operate. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 12:04:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There never was self baffle "removal"- that's a gross misrepresentation of the issue- no cans ever came apart- but I get what you mean on the rattle issue, we went to laser welding for the Recce core, so it's a better welding process and is automated now. The Laser welding is superior to tig. I thought you blamed that issue on a disgruntled employee and not the production method? Interesting how stories can change over time. Which way should they point their “collectible” silencer again? |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 12:24:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought you blamed that issue on a disgruntled employee and not the production method? If my company pays a welder welding manually with TIG, who is trained and has executed properly welded cores, and he skips a weld, or his weld is poorly laid down and fails, that's the fault of the welder. That doesn't change the fact that the Laser weld is also vastly superior to TIG. When properly TIG welded, the Recce cores have never had a weld failure (causing rattle or any other symptom), so TIG was adequate, but Laser is superior in several ways: 1: the process is more automated and the machine doesn't get tired 2: the process is faster 3: the weld has ~100% penetration all the way around (greater strength and near perfect consistency compared to TIG where heat constantly changes as the weld happens) 4: the sound performance and thermal transfer of the core is improved Our Lifetime warranty is transferrable and it covered/covers the issue you mentioned. It's been several years and most or all of those cans have been repaired at no cost to their owners. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 12:42:20 PM EDT
[#37]
I didn't know so many people bought cans based on politics of a company, seems like a lot of whining in here -- I'm just looking for performance
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Posted: 6/29/2022 1:17:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't know so many people bought cans based on politics of a company, seems like a lot of whining in here -- I'm just looking for performance There is a natural correlation between a person's character and the integrity of their testing, and rightly so. It's wise to recognize that correlation when considering these results. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 1:42:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Why not make the HRT can available to the public?
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Posted: 6/29/2022 1:59:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't know so many people bought cans based on politics of a company, seems like a lot of whining in here -- I'm just looking for performance It's kind of sad. I think there's a ton of justifying certain expensive purchases and butthurt over potentially cheaper and lighter products performing better. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 2:08:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Green0 might get the marketing department to get that added to their cans ASAP. Probably call it the C-Era Five.
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ill still buy the Sierra 5 just due to the knurling. I was wondering does the Explorr .224 have self baffle removal after the first mag like some of the Recce cans? |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 2:40:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: It's kind of sad. I think there's a ton of justifying certain expensive purchases and butthurt over potentially cheaper and lighter products performing better. You can tell from this thread who is a fanboy of certain brands. Why don’t you look at the individual products? I have suppressors from surefire, OSS, and rugged already. I care about the product not the name of the company |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:17:32 PM EDT
[#43]
I don’t own griffin yet but the explorr .224 looks to be quite interesting with it’s all around specs and performance. @Green0 do you have anything quantifiable that shows how well eco flow baffles actually work?
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:17:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to thank Green0 for his gracious "decent first attempt" rating.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:29:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's kind of sad. I think there's a ton of justifying certain expensive purchases and butthurt over potentially cheaper and lighter products performing better. Or some consumers consider more than just numbers when making (lifetime) purchase decisions. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:39:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or some consumers consider more than just numbers when making (lifetime) purchase decisions. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:44:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 26 cans, with 27 in my shopping cart. A lot of Dead Air, almost everything Rugged makes, Energetic Armament, SiCo, CGS and Innovative Arms. But no Griffin. I don't respond positively to such behavior. If I lived to be 400 years old I'd live like this, but I buy the best preforming cans because they're the best preforming cans 
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:47:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can tell from this thread who is a fanboy of certain brands. Why don’t you look at the individual products? I have suppressors from surefire, OSS, and rugged already. I care about the product not the name of the company I care more about the company in some aspects. Like if they will be in business next week or not. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 3:56:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I care more about the company in some aspects. Like if they will be in business next week or not. That’s a fair point in regards to the warranty. But why did you highlight OSS? You think they are going out of business? They got multiple military and law enforcement contracts recently. |
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Posted: 6/29/2022 4:11:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a fair point in regards to the warranty. But why did you highlight OSS? You think they are going out of business? They got multiple military and law enforcement contracts recently. Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s a fair point in regards to the warranty. But why did you highlight OSS? You think they are going out of business? They got multiple military and law enforcement contracts recently. The only thing I had heard about OSS is that the company had changed ownership a few times. That may or may not be true, all I heard was hearsay from another person at work. Quoted: There is a natural correlation between a person's character and the integrity of their testing, and rightly so. It's wise to recognize that correlation when considering these results. Especially if for whatever reason you don’t like the results. Then it makes sense to distort reality to make yourself feel better about it. We ran the Sierra 5 two times on the meter for the 16” gun- once when we got it, out of curiosity, and once on video a day or two later (same gun, same muzzle device). The run on video performed .5DB better than the first run at the muzzle. The first string was 141.2DB for five rounds. We didn’t run it again to get a less competitive result. It did .5DB better when we were video recording, and so that’s what’s in the video. Quoted: Why not make the HRT can available to the public? When we first had it made, the sales guys were thinking that the can would mean more to LE customers if it was special product, only available to law enforcement. I had told them we were making it as a means of being ready for a future short can contract (because the cans we entered in the FBI 12 day to ship opening were .27” or something too long to qualify to be tested), and I didn’t want to step on the sales guy’s toes so I just repeated what they said. With all the Sierra 5 hype, they have warmed up to releasing it for sale. I never wanted a 6.03” long can. I wanted one 6.38” OAL. Now that the can exists, ironically the first government customer we’re showing it to needs a feature (a mount) that requires the 6.38” OAL to interface, so this week we are running 10 tube bodies in that length to have the product to show them. Now the 6.03” length I didn’t want, is more likely to be the line item we actually sell because we produced it in production quantities because I thought we would sell some to people or law enforcement entities. No matter how ready you want to be, there will always be something to change to meet a government requirement- that’s why it would be ideal for solicitations to be announced far in advance in order to actually represent a fair and competitive process. |
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