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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2018 12:18:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Somethin to whet the appetite..
My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan) |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:09:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Finally sourced a knights short riser, little to short for the 553 but will work for now, been looking for a reason to score an exps anyway
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:19:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
Somethin to whet the appetite.. http://i.imgur.com/kVltVN7.jpg My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan) 
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:25:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spooled:
Finally sourced a knights short riser, little to short for the 553 but will work for now, been looking for a reason to score an exps anyway
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/297824/41D2747B-6640-41DD-8BA3-AFB75F927100-548810.JPG Of course, EXPS is always the right answer ;p. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:40:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By eMc9001:
Trying to sort out some details. Decided on a NT4 so going USMC CQBR inspired. So KAC Ambi saftey or Colt? KAC 300M Micro rear buis? As far as IR's PEQ16 or LA-5? ETA: holy fuck could buy a MAWL for that price. Have everything else already done that's all I have left. LA-5 is life. PEQ16 white light is all but useless. MAWLs are really, really nice. I love mine, but when I look at it, it doesn't have that PEQ sexiness to it. Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Bedside photo https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_5053-548634.JPG CD |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:47:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vanquishings:
KAC Ambi all day everyday. 100x better than the Colt Ambi. LA-5 is life. PEQ16 white light is all but useless. MAWLs are really, really nice. I love mine, but when I look at it, it doesn't have that PEQ sexiness to it. Damn, the Gus optic and Glock extendos?! These ODAs gettin' wild! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vanquishings:
Originally Posted By eMc9001:
Trying to sort out some details. Decided on a NT4 so going USMC CQBR inspired. So KAC Ambi saftey or Colt? KAC 300M Micro rear buis? As far as IR's PEQ16 or LA-5? ETA: holy fuck could buy a MAWL for that price. Have everything else already done that's all I have left. LA-5 is life. PEQ16 white light is all but useless. MAWLs are really, really nice. I love mine, but when I look at it, it doesn't have that PEQ sexiness to it. Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Bedside photo https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_5053-548634.JPG CD |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:54:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vanquishings: KAC Ambi all day everyday. 100x better than the Colt Ambi. LA-5 is life. PEQ16 white light is all but useless. MAWLs are really, really nice. I love mine, but when I look at it, it doesn't have that PEQ sexiness to it. Damn, the Gus optic and Glock extendos?! These ODAs gettin' wild! |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 1:55:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt: Nice looking setup. That poopy stock looks 100% at home and not out of place at all. Gives me hope :D. Of course, EXPS is always the right answer ;p. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 2:44:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: Use correct size bit and you won't strip head.  Attached File |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2018 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela:
You mean like this?
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6163/IMG_1156-548825.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Somethin to whet the appetite.. http://i.imgur.com/kVltVN7.jpg My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan)
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6163/IMG_1156-548825.JPG  . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
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Posted: 5/19/2018 3:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MILSPEC556]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
No, like this. ( nearly identical!) how'd you find a tan gps and Arredondo? Had to paint black ones. The rail is tan underneath though. I'd love to find the casv without the qd or 1:30 rail option like the original. I found one but it turned out to be airsoft . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/iau6NYK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kuhznD1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YTGHM7b.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
Originally Posted By Strela:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Somethin to whet the appetite.. http://i.imgur.com/kVltVN7.jpg My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan)
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6163/IMG_1156-548825.JPG . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/iau6NYK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kuhznD1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YTGHM7b.jpg 
That gun looks sick tho. Paint is el perfecto |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 3:20:56 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/19/2018 3:28:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4:
My "mk18ish" clone. I don't think the muzzle device is correct. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/384425/20180519_141607_resized-548926.JPG
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Posted: 5/19/2018 4:53:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnnySasaki20: That only works if when you buy it, it isn't already partially stripped, and/or basically welded in there, lol. I did this when I knew the one g33 was staying permanently on the Wilcox, and I had another perfectly fine flipmount in the parts bin(s) ready if I wanted to swap the other g33 back, and now that I have, I can't find the other flipmount for the life of me, lol. #firstworldproblems https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/260264/LRM_EXPORT_20180519_144343-548889.JPG |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2018 4:54:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
In reference to the hood- oh no you didn't. Dirty cheater.
That gun looks sick tho. Paint is el perfecto Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Originally Posted By Strela:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Somethin to whet the appetite.. http://i.imgur.com/kVltVN7.jpg My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan)
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6163/IMG_1156-548825.JPG . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/iau6NYK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kuhznD1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YTGHM7b.jpg
That gun looks sick tho. Paint is el perfecto |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2018 4:56:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
now now now, you and I both know about your track record with breaking heads off bolts, you gorilla you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
Originally Posted By JohnnySasaki20: That only works if when you buy it, it isn't already partially stripped, and/or basically welded in there, lol. I did this when I knew the one g33 was staying permanently on the Wilcox, and I had another perfectly fine flipmount in the parts bin(s) ready if I wanted to swap the other g33 back, and now that I have, I can't find the other flipmount for the life of me, lol. #firstworldproblems https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/260264/LRM_EXPORT_20180519_144343-548889.JPG |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2018 5:26:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kidnap_44]
[#17]
.Gif attempt.
Dat muzzle blast, tho... (enclosed range)
My buddies dad, vet of OIF and OEF, multiple tours ripping off a mag. 
(10.3 chopped 6920, as a Mod O) 
And The Wife on the CQBR. DD MK18 with .070 gas port, 4:00 ejection, soft shooter, disregard her expression.
(Prior to Surefire 3 prong) RC1 in jail! 
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Posted: 5/19/2018 8:01:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
No, like this. ( nearly identical!) how'd you find a tan gps and Arredondo? Had to paint black ones. The rail is tan underneath though. I'd love to find the casv without the qd or 1:30 rail option like the original. I found one but it turned out to be airsoft . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/iau6NYK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kuhznD1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YTGHM7b.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
Originally Posted By Strela:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Somethin to whet the appetite.. http://i.imgur.com/kVltVN7.jpg My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan)
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6163/IMG_1156-548825.JPG . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/iau6NYK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kuhznD1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YTGHM7b.jpg The whole, expensive project started when my son gave me the FDE Tango Down grip that he got on closeout from Scottsdale Gun Club. That's the cheapest part of the gun.
Yours is pretty cool too. |
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Posted: 5/19/2018 8:44:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8: now now now, you and I both know about your track record with breaking heads off bolts, you gorilla you.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2018 7:13:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#20]
^^^The magnent test?
mmm playdough fun factory.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:05:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#21]
Some call it a sickness, some call it a disease, others call it an addiction. I call it it a retirement fund!
Eta- keepin the 552 on this build for now. If I find an awesome deal on a Trijicon tr21 however, I'm gettin it. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:56:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela:
Got both of them off the EE. The whole, expensive project started when my son gave me the FDE Tango Down grip that he got on closeout from Scottsdale Gun Club. That's the cheapest part of the gun.
Yours is pretty cool too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Originally Posted By Strela:
Originally Posted By Dyzastr:
Somethin to whet the appetite.. http://i.imgur.com/kVltVN7.jpg My rail is here. I'm as happy as this guy. Not sure what he found, but it looks like it's good! ( the seller told me the rail was black under the paint but it's really a true casv-elt/tan)
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/6163/IMG_1156-548825.JPG . I found out when the Eotech wouldn't mount. Nice gun you got by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/iau6NYK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kuhznD1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YTGHM7b.jpg The whole, expensive project started when my son gave me the FDE Tango Down grip that he got on closeout from Scottsdale Gun Club. That's the cheapest part of the gun.
Yours is pretty cool too. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2018 1:05:28 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 5/20/2018 1:48:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
How do you like that td grip? Not sure if I want to go ergo, td, or miad for this eod build. I don't know if you've seen these but they contain some good info. http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1381 https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Navy_EOD_clone___Calling_Augee/118-559133/ |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2018 3:54:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Strela: I like it, and when I saw that it was one of the types used on the EOD guns that's the direction I took. I'm not a MIAD fan and it doesn't appear to be on the "accepted" (whatever that is) list so I didn't consider that. I don't know if you've seen these but they contain some good info. http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1381 https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Navy_EOD_clone___Calling_Augee/118-559133/ eta-when it comes to grips, it seems there are quite a few "acceptable" variations. I left my a2 an mine, and I'm sure there's at least a few examples out there. eta- the info about the maid is in the second link you posted. Scroll to where it says 2005: march 2005: FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Magpul for coyote brown carbine stocks, 296 double HK style snap rings, and 516 coyote brown MIAD modular grips with 123 lithium and AA/AAA battery cores, and enhanced aluminum trigger guards. (Separately, at a later date, EOD Group Two also adopts the Magpul M93B stock.) FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Southeastern Weaponry Research (SWR) for 609 Grip Pod Forward Vertical Handgrips with Self Contained Bipod (Polymer Version). FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Abrams Airborne Manufacturing (Vltor) for 433 Carbine M4 Extended Length (model #EL) handguards and 97 Five-Position Receiver Extensions (Item #RE-1). |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 7:59:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Don't worry, you guys. I got it out.....
And here's the reason I was so dead set on getting it out..... 
See? Much better now. 
Now if only I can find an FDE XPS 3-0.... |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 8:37:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vanquishings:
Don't worry, you guys. I got it out.....
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/823/41341311355_cb671d437c_b.jpg And here's the reason I was so dead set on getting it out..... https://farm1.staticflickr.com/976/27371751267_4514973044_b.jpg See? Much better now. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/970/28369470338_dc24803820_b.jpg Now if only I can find an FDE XPS 3-0....
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:13:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Need some pro advice here..
If i have a 10.3 barrel with fsb, kac rail, and I use a matech rear sight. And my lower (after sbr stamp) uses standard m4 stock, which mk18 variant would I be building? Would I call it a mod 0? Or a block 2? I get confused sometimes :( 
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:24:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aaron580]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4:
Need some pro advice here.. If i have a 10.3 barrel with fsb, kac rail, and I use a matech rear sight. And my lower (after sbr stamp) uses standard m4 stock, which mk18 variant would I be building? Would I call it a mod 0? Or a block 2? I get confused sometimes :( |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:37:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580: Mod 0/block 1 |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:50:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4:
Need some pro advice here.. If i have a 10.3 barrel with fsb, kac rail, and I use a matech rear sight. And my lower (after sbr stamp) uses standard m4 stock, which mk18 variant would I be building? Would I call it a mod 0? Or a block 2? I get confused sometimes :( |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 11:04:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By wissota4:
Need some pro advice here.. If i have a 10.3 barrel with fsb, kac rail, and I use a matech rear sight. And my lower (after sbr stamp) uses standard m4 stock, which mk18 variant would I be building? Would I call it a mod 0? Or a block 2? I get confused sometimes :( What you're describing would probably be most correctly labeled as a CQBR Block I - depending on what other accessories you use. That being said, if you called it an Mk18 Mod 0, no one would complain and everyone would know what you meant. Mostly, saying "Mk18 Mod 0" when referring to a CQBR Block I build, or "CQBR" when referring to a CQBR Block II build is shorthand, both for brevity and to avoid confusion. If you say "Mod 0" to another cloner, they're going to have a pretty good idea what you mean. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 11:07:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt: I mean, technically, CQBR could apply to anything from the earliest to most current, including both Block I and Block II builds, with or without an FSB. While it's common to phrase an early CQBR (usually Block I) w/ FSB as an "Mk18 Mod 0" and CQBR Block IIs as "CQBR" (and I do it, too), in actuality, CQBR could correctly apply to both. The CQBR predates the Mk18 Mod 0 by 3 years or so. The Mk18 Mod 0 was a specific designation for a complete weapon from Crane, using what amounts to a CQBR URG along with an M4A1 lower or repurposed M16A1 lower. On the other hand, the CQBR URG was originally part of the SOPMOD program and later taken over by Crane; it's issued as an upper. The "Block #" refers to the SOPMOD accessory package used on the weapon. What you're describing would probably be most correctly labeled as a CQBR Block I - depending on what other accessories you use. That being said, if you called it an Mk18 Mod 0, no one would complain and everyone would know what you meant. Mostly, saying "Mk18 Mod 0" when referring to a CQBR Block I build, or "CQBR" when referring to a CQBR Block II build is shorthand, both for brevity and to avoid confusion. If you say "Mod 0" to another cloner, they're going to have a pretty good idea what you mean. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 11:21:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryThanks. Ordered. Now to sell off some stuff I’ve been collecting. $675 was too cheap to pass up.
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Posted: 5/20/2018 11:23:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Anyone have a lead to a 4 prong for sale?
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Posted: 5/20/2018 11:54:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jeep450:
Anyone have a lead to a 4 prong for sale? https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/CLONE-Parts-M4A1-SOPMOD-CQBR-MK18-Mk12-Recce-KAC-Surefire-Daniel-Defense-Rail-Barrel-etc-/25-1769829/? Prices have been around $250 to $300 max for the most part. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 12:18:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jeep450:
Thanks. Ordered. Now to sell off some stuff I’ve been collecting. $675 was too cheap to pass up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jeep450:
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USA
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Posted: 5/21/2018 3:13:25 AM EDT
[#38]
For you guys running those new SBA3 braces, how are they measured for the purposes of OAL? I'm hearing conflicting thoughts on them.
Some guys are saying with the brace fully extended cuz there is an ATF letter that says that's how you do it, others are saying that is wrong and that letter/email was wrong. What is the OAL of the MK18 10.3" upper with an SBA3? I really need to get a damn stamp. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 3:59:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Roadblock:
For you guys running those new SBA3 braces, how are they measured for the purposes of OAL? I'm hearing conflicting thoughts on them. Some guys are saying with the brace fully extended cuz there is an ATF letter that says that's how you do it, others are saying that is wrong and that letter/email was wrong. What is the OAL of the MK18 10.3" upper with an SBA3? I really need to get a damn stamp. The only letter that directly states braces are measured fully extended (the "gmail screenshot opinion letter") also says a pistol/"firearm" with a folding brace is measured unfolded. We can be almost certain that is incorrect, because the ATF has been confiscating guns built by a shop in Connecticut that used a brace/folder to reach 26" OAL. The ATF seems to be taking the position that a brace/folder combination is measured in the folded position - meaning the weapons sold by "The Freedom Shoppe" were technically unregistered AOWs. As a result, the only letter stating that measurement both includes a brace, and that braces are measured fully extended or unfolded, has proven to directly contradict the actual enforcement practices of the ATF. That this letter also happens to be in a highly irregular (email) format, and from the wrong department, only serves to further call it into question. Based on the "Freedom Shoppe" case, it would be reasonable to assume a fully adjustable brace like the SBA3 could very likely be measured like a folder - in other words, the shortest possible configuration. While this hasn't been established as fact, it's a very distinct possibility that shouldn't be ignored. Therefore, I wouldn't remotely recommend relying on an adjustable brace being measured in the fully extended position as the only thing between you and possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. A Blade with set screw is the slightly less risky option if you want to dive into the murky waters of "brace as part of OAL". Not sure the exact OAL of an SBA3, but since it uses a standard RE, it'd be below 26" measured from the RE to muzzle. The safest option, in my opinion, remains to measure from the end of the receiver extension when utilizing a VFG on a 26"+ "firearm". |
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USA
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Posted: 5/21/2018 4:43:26 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt: The only answer is that there isn't a clear answer. Anyone saying there is a definitive answer isn't being honest. The only letter that directly states braces are measured fully extended (the "gmail screenshot opinion letter") also says a pistol/"firearm" with a folding brace is measured unfolded. We can be almost certain that is incorrect, because the ATF has been confiscating guns built by a shop in Connecticut that used a brace/folder to reach 26" OAL. The ATF seems to be taking the position that a brace/folder combination is measured in the folded position - meaning the weapons sold by "The Freedom Shoppe" were technically unregistered AOWs. As a result, the only letter stating that measurement both includes a brace, and that braces are measured fully extended or unfolded, has proven to directly contradict the actual enforcement practices of the ATF. That this letter also happens to be in a highly irregular (email) format, and from the wrong department, only serves to further call it into question. Based on the "Freedom Shoppe" case, it would be reasonable to assume a fully adjustable brace like the SBA3 could very likely be measured like a folder - in other words, the shortest possible configuration. While this hasn't been established as fact, it's a very distinct possibility that shouldn't be ignored. Therefore, I wouldn't remotely recommend relying on an adjustable brace being measured in the fully extended position as the only thing between you and possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. A Blade with set screw is the slightly less risky option if you want to dive into the murky waters of "brace as part of OAL". Not sure the exact OAL of an SBA3, but since it uses a standard RE, it'd be below 26" measured from the RE to muzzle. The safest option, in my opinion, remains to measure from the end of the receiver extension when utilizing a VFG on a 26"+ "firearm". I remember when the Shockwave which is what I have now hit the scene up it was basically said that because it's not actually permanently installed, the Blade itself doesn't play into the OAL and that the 10.3" plus KAK buffer would be all you would measure which is like 24 7/8 inches or something like that. Makes sense that the SBA3 would be treated the same. I've not heard about this Freedom Shoppe case. I'll have to look into that. You mentioned brace plus folder so I'm curious to see "what" they were selling in that configuration as I was thinking about maybe tossing a LAW Tactical folder into the mix for transportation purposes and backpacking. I don't even own any VFG's. I have a B5 Gripstop on my Mk18 pistol now and hadn't planned to change that, I was just asking more from a curiosity standpoint and I wanted to make sure the 10.3" plus SBA3 didn't go over 26" OAL as I do occasionally carry my Mk18 loaded in my SUV. Thanks! |
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USA
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Posted: 5/21/2018 5:11:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Roadblock]
[#41]
Krdt!
Can you give me a little more info on what exactly Freedom Shoppe was selling? I found some thread on it but it didn't specifically say what the ATF issue was. Sounds like some type of AR with a folding brace. So if I understand this, the purpose of whatever configuration they were offering was to be OVER 26" OAL when opened for the purposes of making a "firearm" which probably had a VFG too then? However, the ATF claimed that when the brace was folded, the OAL was under the 26" thus making it an AOW probably because it had a vertical grip on it or what it some other configuration and issue? I'm wondering if the same whatever it was had a folding brace but no VFG, would the ATF still claimed it was an AOW? I'm clarifying because I was thinking about making doing a LAW Tactical folder on a pistol and I'm trying to figure out what they did that got the ATF claiming it was an AOW and not a firearm or pistol. Thanks! |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2018 7:07:04 AM EDT
[#42]
I thought if you build an AR pistol with a LAW folder you still just measured to the end of RET and just didn't count the brace. I know for some SMGs with folding braces you measure with it stowed/folded. However it wouldn't make sense to do this with an AR as the weapon is inoperable with the stock/brace folded and thus the shorter size doesn't really mean much besides for transport.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2018 7:31:43 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt: The only answer is that there isn't a clear answer. Anyone saying there is a definitive answer isn't being honest. The only letter that directly states braces are measured fully extended (the "gmail screenshot opinion letter") also says a pistol/"firearm" with a folding brace is measured unfolded. We can be almost certain that is incorrect, because the ATF has been confiscating guns built by a shop in Connecticut that used a brace/folder to reach 26" OAL. The ATF seems to be taking the position that a brace/folder combination is measured in the folded position - meaning the weapons sold by "The Freedom Shoppe" were technically unregistered AOWs. As a result, the only letter stating that measurement both includes a brace, and that braces are measured fully extended or unfolded, has proven to directly contradict the actual enforcement practices of the ATF. That this letter also happens to be in a highly irregular (email) format, and from the wrong department, only serves to further call it into question. Based on the "Freedom Shoppe" case, it would be reasonable to assume a fully adjustable brace like the SBA3 could very likely be measured like a folder - in other words, the shortest possible configuration. While this hasn't been established as fact, it's a very distinct possibility that shouldn't be ignored. Therefore, I wouldn't remotely recommend relying on an adjustable brace being measured in the fully extended position as the only thing between you and possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. A Blade with set screw is the slightly less risky option if you want to dive into the murky waters of "brace as part of OAL". Not sure the exact OAL of an SBA3, but since it uses a standard RE, it'd be below 26" measured from the RE to muzzle. The safest option, in my opinion, remains to measure from the end of the receiver extension when utilizing a VFG on a 26"+ "firearm". |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 9:33:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt: Not to put a damper on things, but for future reference, you can save an extra 4-7% by using a service called Active Junky when purchasing from Brownells. Currently, that'd be another $37 off the total. It's a standard 4% cash back (occasionally 7%), and if you're not already a member and get an invite, it's an additional $10 sign up bonus. So, $637.99 out the door. If you want an invite let me know.
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Posted: 5/21/2018 1:17:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Thanks for that well-formulated response. I remember when the Shockwave which is what I have now hit the scene up it was basically said that because it's not actually permanently installed, the Blade itself doesn't play into the OAL and that the 10.3" plus KAK buffer would be all you would measure which is like 24 7/8 inches or something like that. Makes sense that the SBA3 would be treated the same. I've not heard about this Freedom Shoppe case. I'll have to look into that. You mentioned brace plus folder so I'm curious to see "what" they were selling in that configuration as I was thinking about maybe tossing a LAW Tactical folder into the mix for transportation purposes and backpacking. I don't even own any VFG's. I have a B5 Gripstop on my Mk18 pistol now and hadn't planned to change that, I was just asking more from a curiosity standpoint and I wanted to make sure the 10.3" plus SBA3 didn't go over 26" OAL as I do occasionally carry my Mk18 loaded in my SUV. Thanks! Now I see why you were asking. In your situation, sounds like you'd be perfectly fine running an SBA3. Worth noting that SBT doesn't have a determination letter for that particular brace, and have hemmed and hawed a bit when asked why. Maybe not that big of deal, but worth mentioning. Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Krdt! Can you give me a little more info on what exactly Freedom Shoppe was selling? I found some thread on it but it didn't specifically say what the ATF issue was. Sounds like some type of AR with a folding brace. So if I understand this, the purpose of whatever configuration they were offering was to be OVER 26" OAL when opened for the purposes of making a "firearm" which probably had a VFG too then? However, the ATF claimed that when the brace was folded, the OAL was under the 26" thus making it an AOW probably because it had a vertical grip on it or what it some other configuration and issue? I'm wondering if the same whatever it was had a folding brace but no VFG, would the ATF still claimed it was an AOW? I'm clarifying because I was thinking about making doing a LAW Tactical folder on a pistol and I'm trying to figure out what they did that got the ATF claiming it was an AOW and not a firearm or pistol. Thanks! In your case, sans VFG, it wouldn't really matter. It would actually make your OAL even shorter if the Freedom Shoppe case stands as the precedent. Originally Posted By M4A1SOPMOD:
So sbr/rifles are measured unfolded/fully extended, but pistols are measured folded/collapsed?? Smdh atf. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 1:33:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
They also sell your purchase history/personal info Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By krdt: Not to put a damper on things, but for future reference, you can save an extra 4-7% by using a service called Active Junky when purchasing from Brownells. Currently, that'd be another $37 off the total. It's a standard 4% cash back (occasionally 7%), and if you're not already a member and get an invite, it's an additional $10 sign up bonus. So, $637.99 out the door. If you want an invite let me know. Lots of sites sell information; there is a good chance that even shopping directly and not going through a referral service that your private info has been sold or shared at some point. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Always possible. Is that your theory or you know that to be actual fact? It doesn't appear they've sold my email; I don't even get spam. If they did sell personal info, I wouldn't be 100% happy about it, but I'd still probably take the $800 or so in cash back I've gotten from them over notions of privacy. If they sell my purchase history, someone will find out I've bought a shitload of stuff from Brownells. Big whoop. Lots of sites sell information; there is a good chance that even shopping directly and not going through a referral service that your private info has been sold or shared at some point. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By krdt: Not to put a damper on things, but for future reference, you can save an extra 4-7% by using a service called Active Junky when purchasing from Brownells. Currently, that'd be another $37 off the total. It's a standard 4% cash back (occasionally 7%), and if you're not already a member and get an invite, it's an additional $10 sign up bonus. So, $637.99 out the door. If you want an invite let me know. Lots of sites sell information; there is a good chance that even shopping directly and not going through a referral service that your private info has been sold or shared at some point. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 2:31:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
I have it bookmarked somewhere , where one of the units equipped with casv's, and m93's also ordered tan magpul miads. eta-when it comes to grips, it seems there are quite a few "acceptable" variations. I left my a2 an mine, and I'm sure there's at least a few examples out there. eta- the info about the maid is in the second link you posted. Scroll to where it says 2005: march 2005: FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Magpul for coyote brown carbine stocks, 296 double HK style snap rings, and 516 coyote brown MIAD modular grips with 123 lithium and AA/AAA battery cores, and enhanced aluminum trigger guards. (Separately, at a later date, EOD Group Two also adopts the Magpul M93B stock.) FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Southeastern Weaponry Research (SWR) for 609 Grip Pod Forward Vertical Handgrips with Self Contained Bipod (Polymer Version). FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Abrams Airborne Manufacturing (Vltor) for 433 Carbine M4 Extended Length (model #EL) handguards and 97 Five-Position Receiver Extensions (Item #RE-1). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:
Originally Posted By Strela: I like it, and when I saw that it was one of the types used on the EOD guns that's the direction I took. I'm not a MIAD fan and it doesn't appear to be on the "accepted" (whatever that is) list so I didn't consider that. I don't know if you've seen these but they contain some good info. http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1381 https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Navy_EOD_clone___Calling_Augee/118-559133/ eta-when it comes to grips, it seems there are quite a few "acceptable" variations. I left my a2 an mine, and I'm sure there's at least a few examples out there. eta- the info about the maid is in the second link you posted. Scroll to where it says 2005: march 2005: FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Magpul for coyote brown carbine stocks, 296 double HK style snap rings, and 516 coyote brown MIAD modular grips with 123 lithium and AA/AAA battery cores, and enhanced aluminum trigger guards. (Separately, at a later date, EOD Group Two also adopts the Magpul M93B stock.) FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Southeastern Weaponry Research (SWR) for 609 Grip Pod Forward Vertical Handgrips with Self Contained Bipod (Polymer Version). FISCSD, on behalf of the Navy's EOD Group One, issues a sole-source solicitation to Abrams Airborne Manufacturing (Vltor) for 433 Carbine M4 Extended Length (model #EL) handguards and 97 Five-Position Receiver Extensions (Item #RE-1). I do find it interesting how the EOD groups came up with their own variations. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 2:34:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Wow. Common sense. Refreshing. I think most are going to opt for the savings in that scenario, every time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By krdt: Not to put a damper on things, but for future reference, you can save an extra 4-7% by using a service called Active Junky when purchasing from Brownells. Currently, that'd be another $37 off the total. It's a standard 4% cash back (occasionally 7%), and if you're not already a member and get an invite, it's an additional $10 sign up bonus. So, $637.99 out the door. If you want an invite let me know. Lots of sites sell information; there is a good chance that even shopping directly and not going through a referral service that your private info has been sold or shared at some point. In reality, it's pretty difficult to do much of anything anymore without someone poking their nose into your data at some point along the line. At least, in this case, you're getting something out of the deal. Most of the time, they don't even have the common courtesy to give you a reach around :\. |
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Posted: 5/21/2018 2:36:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-Ryan21]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Oh, common sense, why art thou so uncommon? ;p In reality, it's pretty difficult to do much of anything anymore without someone poking their nose into your data at some point along the line. At least, in this case, you're getting something out of the deal. Most of the time, they don't even have the common courtesy to give you a reach around :\. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By krdt:
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By krdt: Not to put a damper on things, but for future reference, you can save an extra 4-7% by using a service called Active Junky when purchasing from Brownells. Currently, that'd be another $37 off the total. It's a standard 4% cash back (occasionally 7%), and if you're not already a member and get an invite, it's an additional $10 sign up bonus. So, $637.99 out the door. If you want an invite let me know. Lots of sites sell information; there is a good chance that even shopping directly and not going through a referral service that your private info has been sold or shared at some point. In reality, it's pretty difficult to do much of anything anymore without someone poking their nose into your data at some point along the line. At least, in this case, you're getting something out of the deal. Most of the time, they don't even have the common courtesy to give you a reach around :\.
Many need to take these off  and start living in 2018.
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