Looks to me like you would want at least the 10" handguard from the 11.5" gun to fully protect the gas block.

EDIT: But I no longer have a 16" barrel to test.

IIRC, the gas valve sticks out front of the handguard.

What does work well is a 12" handguard with a 14.5" barrel.

Been looking at jumping onto the MCX train and have been going back and forth between the Virtus and the Spear.  I see the 11.5" Virtus upper conversion kits can be had for $1400 now which is what I have been eyeing.  I could also pick up the 11.5" Spear LT from Mahinda Arms for a 90-120 preorder for $2300.  Is it worth the extra coin to get the full gun or should I save and pick up a Virtus?  Is the Virtus being discontinued a big deal?

Spear lt all the way

If you enjoy the "FDE," go with the SPEAR.

Still a [Noctis] Virtus fanboy myself here.

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Finally got my MCX W-TAP 16" Patrol home. Even my bully likes it.

90-120 days, and then an exceedingly long wait for the form 4 to clear. You might be pushing a year and a half before you can take it home if you go that route.

Does anyone have pictures of a 16" Virtus with an SLXC or SLHC can attached to it? Would it be too "unwieldy" for SHTF?

If you have visions of room clearing and CQB in SHTF, you probably won't be around long. If I absolutely knew I was taking a rifle into the end of the world, it would probably be 16" with a can. I ran mine at 16" with an RC2, no issues.

A bit out in left field for an MCX specific thread, but that can be said for a lot of things.  Routinely taking shots at 300+ yds (where the extra barrel length really starts to make sense) during SHTF is a pretty poor idea as well.  

Decreased length and weight aren’t only beneficial for “CQB”.  Overall, I’d say decreased length and weight would be of benefit in just about any scenario where you don’t absolutely need the additional velocity.  Spending time in and around vehicles, forested areas, or anywhere else that isn’t a large open field is usually more easily accomplished with a shorter long gun.  Decreased weight is going to be beneficial regardless of scenario or environment.

Now, that’s not to say there’s anything necessarily wrong with a 16” gun, but distilling shorter guns down to “for CQB only” wreaks of someone who doesn’t have a ton of experience carrying long guns all that often.

Look at any military or LE team that does room clearing for a living, they arent rocking 16's with cans. Add lights and lasers to that too and then carry it all day and do OPs.  11.5 or 12.5 with a can is my preferred.

Careful on getting tactical advice on the internet.  Find people that know what they are talking about and learn from them.

WUPHF's response is a good one and he gets it.

Hard to tell, as there's no real scale, but a 14.5" with a 12" HG.

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Do you carry long guns that often? I’m literally packing up my snowshoes, pack and rifle to walk into the hills and call for wolves this weekend. I walk around with a rifle year-round. I’ve never been in the military so I don’t make any claims to that, but I’ve put a shit ton of miles under me with a bow, rifle and shotgun.

I’m not saying they’re only for CQB, I’m saying that you may need a lot of versatility in a survival situation. It’s about balancing your needs. Life won’t be all tactical combat in the end of the world. What if I need to bring down an animal for food? Elk don’t die easily, they are tenacious. Any conflict with people is likely to be an attempt to keep them at bay and allow one to flee.

I like SBR’s, I just SBR’d my MCX and have a Mk18 and 11.5” URGI clone. That type of gun is cool when you have a lot of support and don’t need versatility, I just don’t think it’s practical in a societal breakdown. You mention in and around vehicles, are you distilling your own gas? How long will you keep your vehicles running? I just think everyone has these grand, Red Dawn visions of the end of the world and it’s going to end up being more about finding food and staying away from people.

I’ve also spent a lot of time hunting in western Washington and southeast Alaska with a 22” and 24” barrel and haven’t had an issue with barrel length in a dense forest.

Ugh, that's gross.  I was under the impression I could do an e-form 1 which has been relatively quick as of late - obviously I was mistaken.  Best bet is then to grab a pistol and form 1 it.

Thanks.

Removed off topic comments.

ETA:  MCX stuff.

Ran some velocity tests comparing the 6.75” barrel vs 9” barrel as I was still a bit up in the air on which one to keep.

6.75” clocked 2010fps average with Barnes 110gr.  9” clocked 2172fps average with the same ammo.  Ambient temp was 27* F.

Seems like a decent jump in velocity, however, when you start running the numbers, the real world performance difference between the 2 is pretty small.  I can post all the numbers if anyone would like, but I usually go way in depth, so it’s a bit lengthy.  

Also, not really Virtus related, but finally figured out a Rattler configuration that is comfy and maintains all the capabilities I wanted.  I pretty much despise super short handguards, so took a lot of trial and error.  

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definitely post the numbers and go way in depth. love the nerd stuff

Run any velocity tests on the Rattler?

Alright, so I have some criteria that I follow with all of my RDS equipped rifle caliber guns.  This criteria may not be the same for everyone, so things could change depending on what you want.  This data will also change if your optic height differs from mine, as this will affect zero distances and the data that follows.

Anyways, my criteria:

-  I limit myself to a max 2” “hold under” between my near and far zero (max trajectory height).  IME, this is a decent compromise and removes any need to consider/think about holds at closer ranges, even shots on smaller targets (you’ll still need to factor hold overs for shots between the muzzle and your “near zero”).  This number can be bumped up to give you a more “rainbow” type trajectory, pushing the distances below out further, just know you’ll have to compensate depending upon the size of target you’re shooting at.

-  MPBR is “max point blank range.”  This is the range where the projectile will be no more than 2” above or below the POA.  That number will change if you change your “max trajectory height.”

-  I define “max COM elevation range” as the distance where the projectile has dropped over 10” below POA.  The rifle will obviously be effective beyond that with very simple holdovers, but it’s a good common data point to compare two different weapons and let’s you know what would happen should you hold COM and not adjust/hold for bullet drop (while ensuring your shots remain inside a human sized torso).  

-  I define “max COM windage range” as the point where the projectile has drifted 5” right or left from POA in a 10mph 90* wind.  Same thought process as the elevation range.  Windage is a bit more important in my book as less people know how to estimate and correct for it, so this will tell you where you’ll be at should you not compensate/hold off for wind while still maintaining a high level of probability that your shot remains on a human sized torso.

Lastly, all of this data is pulled from Strelok after inputting all of my specifics.  As with any ballistic calculator, they will get you close (usually extremely close if the stuff you’re inputting is accurate), but it’s extremely important to confirm all this data with live fire at the range.  This ensures your inputs are accurate and will identify any issues you may have overlooked.  Now, on to the numbers:

- Optic HOB:  4”  This is with an Aimpoint T2 on a UT FAST mount (2.26” optic height).
- 6.75” Velocity:  2010fps average
- 9” Velocity:  2172fps average

Near Zero:
- 6.75” - 47yds
- 9” - 51yds

Far/True Zero:
- 6.75” - 165yds
- 9” - 175yds

Max Point Blank Range:
- 6.75” - 187yds
- 9” - 200yds

Expansion range (utilizing 1300fps):
- 6.75” - 315yds
- 9” - 375yds

Max COM Elev Range (Over 10” drop from POA):
- 6.75” - 245yds
- 9” - 260yds

Max COM Wind Range (Over 5” drift from POA w/10mph full value wind):
- 6.75” - 160yds
- 9” - 170yds

For me, I don’t feel I’m giving up much with the 6.75” to justify the additional barrel length.  This gun will be shot suppressed 95% of the time, so OAL becomes a much larger consideration given my needs.

damn that's a high mount, but damn good data.

Thank you!

It’s not too crazy, only about 1/2” taller than the FAST on a standard AR upper.

I did a baseline chrono when I got it assembled.  10 shot average with Barnes 110gr was 1910fps.

Ambient temps were about 10-15* colder than it was when I chrono’d the 6.75” and 9” barrels, so not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

I’m going to chrono all of them (Rattler, 6.75”, and 9”) plus my PDW AR with a 5” SLR barrel when I get back home after the holidays, probably around mid January.  Should prove pretty interesting and eliminate any variables from temperatures or other sources.

answered, thanks

Looks legit to me. But yes, the 300blk has that extra lug.

Thanks for the write up.  I would love to see how you hold the rattler in this configuration and know what your LAD is mounted on.

I'm struggling to make my D2 work on the rattler, so I slapped it back on my 11.5"  AR.

Circling back to the cqb/shtf discussion for a second regarding the MCX, I have 16” and 11.5” 5.56 barrels, as well as 6.75” and 9” 300blk barrels.

I’ve shot run and gun competitions with the mcx in 5.56 16” set up, and taken a 2 day cqb course where I alternated between a 13.7” sbr AR with a 6” suppressor and the airsoft MCX which is about the same length as the 6.75” + suppressor.  Shorter is always better for indoors.  The 6.75” barrel+can is a really handy package inside that wont blow my eardrums out.  Getting the suppressed 13.7 moved around wasnt nearly as easy or efficient.  It was absolutely doable, especially with practice but it was harder.  Heck, I know Marines who were stuck clearing houses with 20” A4s.  It can be done with a musket.

I have used a laser range finder to check out max engagement distances from my property.  I am well aware that the moral and legal ranges for home defense/riots/shtf/whatever are very much circumstantial and likely closer, but I wanted to know how far I could see standing on my driveway in my neighborhood (rolling hills and lots of live oak/cedar trees).

50 yards across the street to my neighbors front door, 250 yards down the street one direction, 200 yards the other way.  

So even if I had moral and legal justification to be making shots across my property line…I can’t see very far.  So for me, the best HD/oh shit set up currently is the 6.75” with 110gr tac tx.

That being said, I grew up in the plains where you can watch your dog run away for three days.  If I was still up there, my answer would be different because the area is different.

Thats the beauty of the MCX.  Figure out how it best works for you in your area and set it up that way.

Picture of the guns I used for the cqb class mentioned above:


The mcx airsoft gun can take actual mcx stocks/rails so I was able to get something pretty close to the actual gun for force on force stuff, which was helpful.

Same reason I went with the 5.5” barrel. I live in wooded/hilly suburbs. From the house I don’t have a view of more than 125 yards before there’s landscape/trees/cover. So not really worried about end terminal ballistics past that.

What’s the airsoft you got? Would be nice to have a trainer.

This one.  I dont know a ton about airsoft, this is my only one, bought it specifically for force on force at that class.

Can take actual stocks/rails, which is nice.  I upgraded the battery (thats the fake peq box) and only shot it semi auto.  Biggest complaint is safety is very mushy compared to real deal.

If you dont need it for force on force but just dry fire training, supposedly the mantis blackbeard pictured in the AR next to
It is coming for the MCX soon.  Replaces bolt/magazine and resets the trigger so you can dry fire your actual rifle without having to run the charging handle every shot.  Really like the mantis, if they do drop a mcx version I’m snagging one.

It’s actually a Leupold Mk1 IMS Riser that I chopped in half.  Took it from two mounting screws to one, but I did some rudimentary testing and I couldn’t get the rail to shift/deflect so I think it should work fine.

I kind of took the idea from the newer GBRS AP Micro mount.  The riser doesn’t put the PEQ at the same height, but it seems to work well.  Apparently someone (might be Unity, don’t recall off the top of my head) is working on a purpose built attachment for the UT FAST mount to achieve the same thing, so I may go that route if I decide to keep this setup.  On the flip side, I could just slap an X300V on the 12 o’clock rail (and roll with passive only for NODs), but I’ll see how this works first.

The ir laser on the TLR VIR is actually pretty useable out to 100 yards.

No way to zero it except under nods which is an annoyance but its another low rail space option.

Cool, thanks for the heads up. The mantis sounds worth it, plus I didn’t have to outfit a new rifle with dot/light/etc

At 1300 fps you might be just over the expansion threshold, but you are doing pistol caliber damage at that point.

I'd prefer to keep it up closer to 2K if possible.

same here.. i had a tacops and was just a little to bulky for me, so switched to a 6" MI rail and that thing is the prefect backpack/HD gun.. I live on a small track of land of 8 acres mostly wooded with around 2 acres cleared in the yard, all my neighbors have similar amount/set up... So for me .300bo supers suppressed out of a 6.7" gun will deff get the job done.... If not theres always my 11.5" or my 14.5" mcx in 556 to make up the diff lol... waiting on my efile form1 to come back on the 11.5 im 20days in, the struggle is real






they make for a nice trio

Yeah, I’ve got a few things on the list to try out.

If I’m being honest, the Rattler is more of a travel/backpack gun for me, and I usually don’t travel with my NODs and other required ancillary equipment.  It just starts to snowball and become a lot of shit when flying somewhere.  I may look at picking up a Crye Nightcap and streamlining a small footprint setup with my PVS-14, but for right now the PEQ is absolute overkill, the gun it normally sits on is just currently out of commission so I had it laying around to try out.  

Damn that’s a hell of a set up. The 14.5, is that pin and welded? Not gonna lie that lpvo and compact set up has me feeling some kind of way

That’s not really feasible even out of a 9” barrel.  You’re sub 2000fps by 60yds.  It’s all about what your requirements are, but everything is a tradeoff in one way or another.

If you really need the terminal effects of a rifle caliber over 2000fps at a decent distance, any short 300BLK is probably a poor choice.

yes sir

More than likely a LE issued barrel.

Are you able to pull the cherry bomb off and check the muzzle for chrome lining? That’s the first I’ve ever seen of a nitrided barrel with chrome lining (anyone with better knowledge than me please chime in). I also don’t know the viability of chrome lining after the nitride process, but it’s definitely getting into the extremely redundant category if both have been done.

My guess is that it’s nitrided and has a highly polished chamber and breach that may appear chrome, but isn’t.

is this the way the 5.56 Rattlers are shipping now?

ETA: top is a suppressor mount.

The model number on all the ones I can find are the same: PMCX-5B-TAP-NB, and have the updated photos with the suppressor ready muzzles. So, it would appear as though they are shipping (current models) with the same muzzle device concept as the SPEAR-LTs -> suppressor ready...

Side note, my low profile forward assist delete for my MCX comes in today, same pictured as above. Can't wait to install that.

Be careful with the screws. I bought a used MCX locally, and the dickhead snapped one of the screws odd in the upper and didn't tell me about it. All so he could engrave a curse word on his dust cover.

Doesn't affect function, but I should really drill it for another screw.

Thank you

Sure enough, stripped one of the screws. The process was actually pretty straight forward once the dust cover spring finally decided to cooperate....

So, no I'm down the rabbit hole for a complete forward assist assembly because I can't seem to find the screws individually.

Call SIG customer service, they might be able to hook you up.

OH MY GOODNESS!!  

The "unsuppressable" now comes suppressor ready?!?  

The screw head, or the threads in the upper?

Check Midwestgunworks for screws.

Not 100% sure to be completely honest. I have some red loctite on there now but while roating the screw, felt the "strip pop" and immediately called it quits at that point...

Also, Midwest has the single screws. Not sure why I didn't check there as I've done a ton of business with them. Sadly already ordered the complete forward assist from the small parts shopper so I'll just use those screws when that gets here.

I'm hoping that the threads on the upper are not stripped, otherwise I'm not sure how to troubleshoot that one.

ETA: It didn't take much either, once I felt even the slightest tension on the screw, pop went the weasel. It's not the head. I'm pretty sure the screw can rotate freely with some applied tension, meaning the thread is probably stripped. I'll have to put some type of heavy heavy bonding compound on it when I decide to re-attack the problem.

If it's like mine is, the screw broke in half.

Fingers crossed for you.

To be fair, the new sig mount is for their flow through cans.