Same here, also assuming it’d be the covered holster/admin hybrid pouch Diz mentioned earlier in the thread.

Hrmmm.  That makes sense.  Turn it into a quasi-chest rig while in the vehicles.  

I don't see how the harness would stop you from being able to to that easily enough.  I just threw one of my rigs I had next to my belt, it's really easy to shrug out of the harness (shrug off one shoulder, I do the right, and just spin the harness around, thread your arm into the reversed harness as it swings around.  You can just as easily do it in reverse to put it back on.)  You can wear it as a kinda quasi-chest rig.  The back of the harness does ride way up under your chin, you wouldn't want to run far with it like that, but for in a vehicle and getting in and out, it works fine.

I'd have to play around with it with a sling and rifle, but I don't think you're going to be keeping a rifle slung while in a vehicle much?

That LBT pack looks pretty nice.

I keep telling myself I need to take a try at making my own pack, put it on an ALICE frame, eventually one of the Crossfire frames if it turns out nice enough.

I have a Turkish ALICE pack I can take apart to use as a pattern.

Yeah I'm assuming there is some sort of SOP for where your gat goes when you ride in whatever vehicle.  When I did it, you just put your (un-slung) rifle between your legs, muzzle up, in any sort of truck with bench seats.  In helos, it varied, but generally (unslung) muzzle down in between yer legs, in MC birds, but sometimes muzzle up in Amry Hueys (where gas tanks were beneath your feet).  It depends on the unit and their SOP, as to whether you wanted to shoot out the gas tanks or the rotors I suppose.

So a slung rifle shouldn't be any factor?  Anybody know different, chime in.

They way CF cuts a yoke, you can't really reverse it, without trying to choke yourself out, so I would just leave it hanging.  If this became an issue (which I don't think it is) I would consider some design to allow for this.  I don't see any problem, even getting off a vehicle, walking a little distance, and then turning it around.  Again depending on SOP's; some units wanted you to immediately drop and let the helo go.  Others would have you run a short distance away.  If you're getting off a truck after an admin move, you pretty much do what you want.  If you were un-assing a troop carrier or amtrac, yeah different kettle of fish, but still no big deal to run out, get your shit together (or I guess in this case, facing the right direction) and go about your business.  Maybe time and space allowing, turn it around at the last minute before you go out hot.

Given new, and useful info on how such rigs may be worn in "walking' use and "vehicle" use, seems to me that making note of such things would be an "excellent" selling point on CF site.  Of course, this will require marketing folks to understand the "fine points" of the rig, and hopefully they will make an effort to do so.   In my personal experience,  "Marketing" folks are specialists in marketing, few of whom fully understand the product.

Put that one in the "why didn't I think of that?" bin. Though, to be fair, I'm usually digging in my sustainment pouches when I'm stopped and have the opportunity to take the belt kit off. Still, a nice little trick to know.

Prepared Pathfinder’s video really hit all the high points. Did a great job highlighting the closures, tranny straps and why the front of the belt is open. It’s also important to consider taking a knee, not just going prone. Anyone whose had the mag pouches dig into your leg while taking a knee knows this.

Props to Prepared Pathfinder for a good review.  Finally a guy who has intimate knowledge of PLCE style kit weighs in.  Hopefully that gives some more legitimacy to the concept.  

We have taken some of his cons into consideration, in fact I spent the afternoon working out a solution to the big floppy drag handle.  The thinking was to have something big enough to get a good grip on, but I also acknowledge you don't necessarily want that thing flopping around in the breeze getting hung up on everything.  So every production rig going out will have the drag handle sewn down flat, (by me), 1 1/2" higher than factory stitching.  We drug each other around on the floor with loaded rigs after the mod, and are confident they will hold up just fine.  Our biggest lad was 230 lbs so I think we're GTG.  

On the IFAK, after a lot of discussion we decided to stick to an IFAK insert for one of the ammo pouches.  We think this will be better for getting access to it.  

Also, we are discussing a 4-pouch sustainment load out, which will give you an additional pouch for whatever you might want to put in it (probably IFAK in Tom's case, eh?).  And for you buttpack enthusiasts, perhaps a double-wide sustainment, with a removable divider; sort of a play on the cmdr's pouch, only larger for stuff around back.  

So no, we are not ignoring Tom, on the contrary, we are embracing his feedback.  

If the pirates don't get it, our ship may be into port in two weeks.

I’m in for the double wide sustainment pouch. Love the butt pack configuration

All of Prepared Pathfinder’s cons, to me, had easily handled solutions EXCEPT the drawstring closure in the sustainment pouch.
That’s the one that should be looked into. Not a deal breaker though.
I’ll be in line to give CF my money when the rig is available.

Rock on, thanks, Devil Dog.  

Yeah the drawstring has it's charms.  I'm more of the mind to make individual bags or fold ups/tool rolls for smaller bits of kit, but yeah different ways of skinning that cat.  I know I bang on about the VelSys rig and it's faults, but to give the devil his due, they did have a slightly larger admin pouch with a drawstring.

I also use individual pouches/bags for organizing AND waterproofing, but I am a huge believer in redundancy when it comes to securing essential kit.

After seeing these reviews, I’m almost kinda upset I sewed my own rig.  The little nuances that yours has are obviously based on years of personal experience with this type of kit.  Love the thoughts about additional sustainment pouches or a butt pack option.

On a separate but similar note, I know sewed on pouches are supposed to be the bees knees. But since molle row’s obviously offer a more tighter attachment than the old Brit tuckT bar attachment, does that alleviate the issue requiring sewed on pouches? I’ve never run a rig with the sewed on pouches, so I don’t know how it stacks up.  Maybe the all molle belt with a “pick and choose” option for pouches might work?

@Diz and one last email sent. If I get your final thoughts, I may be ready to order material and start sewing. 🤞🤞

No, sewn on is better than MOLLE.  It is less 'floppy', and significantly lighter.  Probably half the weight of a pouch is the molle attachments (if you count the molle on the belt too, for sure it is)

If you want to go MOLLE, then once you get your pouches exactly where you like them, it's not hard to put a line (or 3)  of stitching along the top and bottom of each pouch, sewing it to the belt.  It really does help.




Do it.  It's worth it.

Oh yeah, I know. Trying to wrap my head around the backpack strap system. Diz has given me some awesome insights.  Looking forward to getting started on this pack. I’m a little torn about going with 500d ranger green to match my homemade PLCE and 420d pack cloth because it’s lightweight and will be easier to sew.

You doing a backpack?  I've been thinking about doing a backpack.

If you have a domestic machine, 500d should be fine too, as long as you have a decent machine and don't try to do too many layers of things.  But 420d is a good backpack fabric.  Either one should work.  If your machine will handle it, do the Ranger Green, that's what you want, to make it match your gear.  I mean, being cool looking and matching kit is half the fight, right?

You could always go with a two-tone pack.  Ranger green highlights and reinforcements.  Maybe do the pack body out of one color and the pockets and lid out of the other.  It would also help break up the outline a little doing that.  OD Packcloth body, Ranger Green pockets, lid, webbing and binding tape maybe.  Or vice-versa.  Though you will find Ranger Green webbing and binding tape in small batches easier than OD.  Ask me how I know.  *looking at 100 yard rolls of 1.5" OD webbing and 1" binding tape"*

Be aware that not all packcloth is made the same these days.  Alot of the newer 400d and 420d stuff that isn't specifically labeled milspec isn't the same as the stuff on your oldschool alice pack.

Sourcing the materials from Rockywoods. They have OD pack cloth, tape, and webbing.

Redundancy is a good thing.  When I wuz with 3d Racoon, we triple wrapped things like PRC-77's with 3 mil plastic.  So ain't gonna poo-poo that.  Of course nowadays they have those gucci dry bags and so forth.

On sewn down.  Shooter's choice, but for sure, I think you'll find it is superior to attachment systems, if for no other reason than weight savings, but also much more secure.  Just to give you one example.  There are guys like me at the "Compound" at Bragg (and Dam Neck I'm sure) who do nothing but rig equipment for the lads.  Once you figure out where everything goes, they take all your kit apart and direct sew it together.  If that's any indication for you.  And I'm pretty damn sure that was a result of cross-training with the Brits.

Not to say that it won't work with molle attachment or whatever.  

I think primarily it's a huge advantage to have the sustainments sewn down in back, onto an 8" pad.  This eliminates virtually all butt bounce, especially if each pouch also has individual bungee tension as well (you're welcome).  The mag pouches may be molle, even if just to allow for different ammo load outs or cmdrs pouch, but since it has a 6" pad and 3 rows of molle, it doesn't bounce as much as say a 2" belt attachment would.  

Rocky woods is a good choice for supplies.  They have the real stuff, with NIR treatment.  That may or may not be important to you now, but I think prudent to consider.  

I think you did mention you got a good industrial (Juki?) so I think you're GTG on that point.  I think I mention this but just in case, see ebay for a single fold binding attachment in 1" or 25mm.  With a larger project such as this here ruck, it makes life soooo much easier.  

And yes my back is sore this morning from dragging all those knuckleheads around yesterday.

PP's review the best so far, and it would be hard to better it.  Concur with his remarks about drag handle and "snow collar for" at least center rear pouch.

IIRC, one of the reviewers sewed strips of velcro onto apex of handle and top rear of chest rig, which looked OK to me.  I would think that V.2 of this rig would possibly incorporate some changes/additions/subtractions suggested by reviewers and buyers.  Perfectly normal.

Speaking only for myself, I found your review to be both useful and valuable.  I believe some others will agree.

Yeah Hawkeye is good peeps.  He has both a custom prototype rig and a production one, so he is in good position to comment.  

His custom rig was all molle so he can configure it different ways.  He has 2-mag 5.56, as well as his own 2-mag AK's so he can try some different stuff out.  Maybe even throw a buttpack on there, who knows.  

Also the custom rig has the low pro yoke, so looking forward to seeing his thoughts there as well.

Note that there is a steep learning curve for these binding attachments on anything but a straight line.  At least the right-angle ones.  I've been playing around with the one I have, and it's a pain to deal with on any kind of sharp curve.  I know it's possible, I'm still having to learn the ins and outs of it.  And there's not many good videos showing details on how to use them  (at least with the quick search I did)

For a straight line though, it's like magic.  'sewing machine go brrrrrrrrrrrr'

Maybe my assessment is wrong, but regarding doubts about IFAK placement on the DZ rig it seems from the videos that because the pouches are shock corded individually and not altogether with just a single piece of elastic they tend to spread out when worn leaving enough place between them to store a properly sized vertical ifak pouch attached to the side of the buttpack or the utility. I think about a smaller GSW/combat pill pack pouch. The caveat is that:
-1 it won't fit what PP has in his IFAK from another video (2 CAT, 2 large israeli Bandages, NPA and a large Celox gauze)
-2 that GSW kit has to be integrated with another more comprehensive bag of items for minor wounds and aches, because in the field you will be probably shot once, but the rest of the environment is always trying to kill you. In a more organized setting you are going to be medevaced if shot but it's atleast in my experience uncommon to get clearance for a routine medical evacuation in case of a tootache, a itch, headache, minor allergies, cuts, bruises and such that renders you just as ineffective and lowers a lot of your situational  awareness. Granted both kits can be stored in a ammo pouch with enough place for a tiny splint too.

Regarding the storm flap on the buttpack, there may be useful for someone, less useful for some others, but if the only risk is losing smaller items making a small protective flap with silk type material attached around the edges with simple adhesive velcro, with or without a slit in the center for quiet access, may be a simple solution. something like the pre-2010 spanish army first aid pouch

I watched it a week or so ago. Thank you for taking the time to put it together.

On the next one, could you have the rig set up with loaded mags, equipment, etc to better demonstrate the load distribution and benefits of the rig?

Not for my entertainment, but to better the knowledge base of the many viewers who aren't familiar LBE and/or raised on plate carriers.

Now a shout out to ole ARmory04 would be cool too

Good points again Joe, we have been discussing this and much more.  

In my day, we took a page from the Brits and sewed sleeves onto our jungle cammie shirts.  We then uh procured pilot's survival vest items.  One of these was "General kit A", and "Medical kit B".  There were coated nylon tri-folds with a fuzzy velcro field.  Individual bits of kit would be given matching velcro dots and placed within each trifold.  So in the one went paracord, duct tape, snare wires, fish hooks, safety pins, needle and thread, and maybe hard candies or bullion cubes.  In the other went misc bandages, ointment, various pills and so forth.  So to Joe's point, your "boo boo" kit was on one of your sleeves.  While the other was for building shelter, hunting and fishing, etc.

"Gun shot wound kits" in those days merely consisted of a couple "field" or "shell" dressings.  The OD triangular bandage from your "1st aid kit" was worn as a scarf, and doubled as a TQ.  These field dressings might be in a pocket or stuffed into a pouch.  But the concept of the IFAK was way in the future.      

So now we are getting down into what's on your first line, vs what's in your belt kit.  Obviously some overlap will usually occur.  My gunshot wound kit is normally kept separate from my boo boo kit.  Both are readily available in either pockets or pouches, just not together.  Since folks have started running IFAKs,  I can see the idea of having this separate medical pouch, with practically everything in it.  Even though I will use the minor stuff much more often, I still think having a dedicated GSW kit, with only critical items in it just works mo better for me.  YMMV and all that.  I know lots of folks use IFAKs.  Consult your SOP.  

In this case you could run a hard canteen, w/crusader cup; a stove, heat tabs, n rations; and an IFAK in the 3 pouches.  Run as many mags as you like, and add anything else, such as smokes, frags, or whatever.  You give up a canteen, but can add in bladder wherever you like to make up for it.  Either on back of rig, in an assault pack, and/or in main rucksack.  

I believe in WWII, many armies only ran one canteen.   Even up to the Korean War.  I was brought up running at least two because I was taught by old jungle hands.   I do prefer two myself but if I wanted a full IFAK, I could conceivably run just one.  Or you could run two canteens, one rations, and then stick your GSW kit in an ammo pouch.

All that being said, if the rigs sell well, then we will carry on with a 4 pouch model.  The M/L will probably stay 3 pouch, and the L/XL will sport 4.

For the sake of academic discussion, how many grenades will fit in the canteen/mag pouches?

Watching a lot of the Ukraine vids it seems fairly back and forth between mag dumps and lots of grenade tossing when things get close.

If I remember right, 2 x US frag grenades will fit into a triple rifle mag pouch.

It might be 3, but if I remember, it is two.

The utility ones would be significantly more - 4 or 5 maybe just eyeballing it?  However, that wouldn't ride super great in those pouches.

Also, you can easily attach grenade pouches to the sides of the various pouches.  Surplus grenade pouches are cheap right now, especially if you buy a lot of 3 or 5 or something.

Think better option is to put frags in separate pouch, with pin taped up.  Will be making some soon, or surplus to hold you over.  Can put up to 4 on sides of ammo pouches.

Convertible pouch (takes 2x frags or a smoke)? Most times I won't have a pile of M67s.

Haha I wish.

Diz, is CF planning to deal with the M67 frag shortage? This seems right up your alley, haha!

I’m in for a case.

If Ukraine has abundance of something it is hand grenades, not standardized models and sizes tho.

If i have to carry several grenades in pouches in this rig i'd vouch for the Arktis double grenade pouch, seems made to fit the front of the ammo pouches.

Oh, we were not entrusted in carrying lot of grenades. And we still had the SRCM model 1935 impact grenade as there were problems with production of newer frag ones that were recalled. The stockpile/refurbishing center that is 60 miles from where i live exploded once and had atleast two other minor incidents.

Yes indeed, there's a good reason you want to be careful with these things.  

As much as I'd like to say, limited time only, one free M67 with each purpose, that probably won't happen.  

On the other hand, I'd love to talk with Geiselle and have a complete rifleman's package.

Here's my dream kit:

Diz rig, with:
12 P-mags, w/ 360 rds, 77gr OTM
2x Brit canteens, w/cups
One complete brew kit
One GSW kit, w/TQ
Two smoke pouches (smokes not incl at this time)
Two frag pouches (frags not included at this time
One compass pouch w/Suunto Int'l compass

Geiselle Special Edition CF "MK18" type rifle:
10.3" bbl
SSA Trigger
Enhanced BCG
H2, w/42 spring
MK 16 rail
B5 stock
MagPul K2 grip
CF silent sling
Wilcox 5/8" riser, w/flip mount
EOTech EXPS3-0
EOTech 3x mag
Somo Gear PEQ-15
SF 600 series light
100 concepts light cover
UT TAPS, std
SF Warcomp
SF Warden
Cleaning kit, w/spares kit
Oil
CF rifle scabbard

As DZ Gear used to say: Just add guts.  

don't forget a tally clicker taped to the receiver of the rifle.

and silva>suunto. Mine turned blue after a few decades tho


Edit: Arktis grenade pouch pic for reference. Those rounded fastex buckles are detrimental because are difficult to open, that may be a nice feature for grenades.


oh and also our grenades (even the newer ones) are i think the only ones in the world in which the pin is meant to be removed with teeth, they have a rubber tongue for it. Youare supposed to do that way when "throwing the grenade while running with weapon in hand" as per manual.

The Somo stuff work okay for you? I'm contemplating an NGAL, but.... Somogear

You could probably fit 3 if you take off those pesky handles

Diz, can you talk more about the IFAK inserts?  I've got a pretty good medical background and I'm always curious about those things.  And 90% of the time I'm thinking "that's an interesting way of doing it ."

Not saying that about yours, but just curious to see it.  And I'll be glad to give my thoughts if you want

ARF Somo thread

and another SOMO ARF thread

I have two of the SOMO-15s and one NGAL clone. The -15s have over 1200rds fired across multiple rifles with mounting and zeroing on said multiple rifles appearing to have no negative impacts to the internals.

I'll probably buy more of both models once I wring out the NGAL with some more rounds.

Common surplus USGI single-frag pouches should be able to be attached to PALS webbing on forward sides of mag pouches.

Possible to attach such pouches to PALS webbing on tops Diz rig mag pouches, but due to weight of frags and complications with quick/easy access to mags, not optimal, IMHO.

It may be possible to insert some fairly slim pouches of limited depth on the PALS webbing on the sides of Diz rig pouches.  This will require user-input once the Diz rig has been available for a while, and folks experiment.

Yeah I have practice frag bodies that I used for testing, in pouches on the fronts of the 3-mag pouches.  Zero issues.

Also ran smokes in pouches on backside of back pouch, again zero issues.  

Somo Gear is something that works pretty good, for training purposes and so forth.  Of course there are many with vested interests in mother-fucking it.  I have 4 PEQ-15's, bought over a period of 18 months, and I can say they have steadily improved and would not hesitate to buy one at this time.  Data point of one.  The NGAL is probably twice as good, hence the price.  Will probably be buying one (or three) in the future.  

No they are not airsoft trash; yes they will withstand 5.56 recoil.  Yes they will have to be re-zero'd frequently, but so does every other LAM I've ever owned, including L3 and Steiner goodness.  

On IFAK inserts, I am going off the tri-fold model, and what my SF buddy's team SOP is.  Any other input appreciated.  Basically I package it so it fits in a 3-mag pouch, with a TQ on top.

I am quite fond of the Varusteleka IFAK inserts.  They fit perfectly in the various triple AR mag pouches I've tried them in.  If you are sparse with what you put in it, you can squeeze it into a double.  I like it because I can pull it out and throw it into a fanny pack or whatever too, instead of repacking it.

You DO have to be careful what you put in it - for instance, if you want to run a pressure bandage, the regular Israeli ones don't work well  (too bulky) - and even the smaller 4" ones are really bulky for it.  So you will want to get one of the smaller ones.  Same with chest seals.  (Note that I'm not an expert in medical stuff by far btw)

I have a smaller H&H pressure bandage, celox Z-folded gauze, a regular z-folded gauze (I think I have 2?), a couple mini-chest seals, chest decompression needle, airway tube, and one of those little tourniquets with the metal loop that's vacuum sealed in mine.  (I keep a regular tourniquet in a surplus flashbang pouch on my belt kit)  It's tight, but it fits.  Once you have it in there, it's nice and secure in there and easy to pull out and open up.



https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-tst-pull-out-ifak-insert/55879

Crossfire branded frags?   lol.  






Myyyyyy man.  

Except mine is 13.9", larue trigger, BCM stock and grip.  And Aimpoint T2 / Unity mount.  



Also:

Wonder where you can get those in the US.

I bet you could mod a couple US surplus pouches, re-sewing the molle attachments on the back and connecting the two pouches.  Maybe I should try that.

Question out of curiosity - will the US frag pouches fit Russian, F1, etc. grenades?  I've always wondered, because of their long metal pins sticking up.

IMO, the issue of run across with IFAK inserts is that how well it packs depends on your kit contents. Certain branded items work better than others, depending on the insert.  That’s just my experience.  I normally have just put what I wanted in a ziploc bag, rolled it up nice and tight and then put it in a pouch.  Multi functional since it’s easier to dump everything out to grab something if needed, and then just put the leftovers back in. You can then toss it into a dump pouch. I have since switched to using a vacuum seal zip lock bag. Same benefits of the ziplock, but in a nice vacuumed down package.  YMMV

Danke.

For what i have seen ukrainians have been using what look like replica peqs, unless NGALs are bought or issued to general infantry/territorial defence type forces. Those are only pictures, no judgement involved (i have said atleast two real and peq15 broken due to rough rifle handling)

Regarding ifak inserts i reserve the judgement After trying each One. Sure many look like neat and tidy with organizers and such, but they are difficult to access, sometimes busting open a ziplock bag on the ground Is the Better answer.

Once during CLS training in the field i failed packing a wound on a casualty with a moulage Spurting Blood that was Eye opening to me. The fake Blood reservoir was full and pumping fast and i got so full of sticky fake blood that i failed to quickly open the casualty ifak, i got a piece of Rubber glove stuck to the casualty bag zipper and i could hardly recognize gauze packs covered with fake Blood, because i failed to put on clean gloves over the Bloody ones as i couldnt retrieve them without smearing everything. Little things that you don't notice that when put to test make you uncomfortable Just like in the story "to build a Fire" by jack London

Here is my solution for carrying an IFAK. Its an ATS insert in a PLCE 3 mag pouch. Only thing missing is the airway that fell on the floor when I opened everything up.
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