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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:04:18 AM EDT
[#1]
At 50kpsi and ~350ftlb, I don't think this is going to work for LCP sized guns, so it really isn't a .380 competitor. Notice that S&W is showing it in the shield/shield-ez, not the bodyguard.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:07:55 AM EDT
[#2]
The whole benefit of 380 over 9mm is that it’s a shorter OAL and will fit in a smaller gun. This thing looks like it’s even a bit longer than 9mm, so it won’t fit in any of the 380 pocket pistols. A couple more rounds is nice and all but at this point there’s so much momentum behind 9mm it’s not like they’re going to supplant it as the go-to defensive cartridge.
I’ll also point out it’s not large enough to use for USPSA, so it won’t even be adopted as a gaming cartridge to try to get a few more rounds in your paper punching gun |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:10:29 AM EDT
[#3]
From Primerpeak.com
30 Super Carry Specs New material from Federal has given us more insight into the performance of 30 Super Carry. Currently Federal lists their 100gr HST loading as providing 1250FPS, along with 347FT-LBS of energy, falling just 17FT-LBS short of their 124gr 9mm loading. The same 100gr load is claimed to gain roughly 15.5 inches of penetration with .530 inches of expansion in ballistics gel with a heavy clothing barrier. This exceeds Federal's quoted number of 14.5 inches of penetration for the previously mentioned 9mm HST. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:12:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 50kpsi and ~350ftlb, I don't think this is going to work for LCP sized guns, so it really isn't a .380 competitor. Notice that S&W is showing it in the shield/shield-ez, not the bodyguard. It isn’t a 380 competitor because it’s at least as long as 9mm |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:19:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn’t a 380 competitor because it’s at least as long as 9mm Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At 50kpsi and ~350ftlb, I don't think this is going to work for LCP sized guns, so it really isn't a .380 competitor. Notice that S&W is showing it in the shield/shield-ez, not the bodyguard. It isn’t a 380 competitor because it’s at least as long as 9mm 9mm and .380 are so close in length that the size of the cartridge makes no real difference. The problem is building such a small and light gun that can handle the pressure and recoil of 9mm. If that wasn't the problem, .380 +p+ that matches/beats 9x19mm standard pressure would be a thing. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:33:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has my interest.... but a 1911 and a shitbox S&E EZ are not the guns I want it in. The Shield Plus would be the most compelling option so far. We know that holds 10+1 and 13+1 in 9mm, so this could hold 15+ rounds in a gun the size of an original Shield. I'd expect Sig, Ruger, and maybe Springfield to get involved fairly early. Glock and HK are going to resist joining the fun. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:35:20 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm interested and might try it someday when it comes out.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:37:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Would someone mind posting where we got this 50k PSI number from?
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:48:18 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm very curious about the potential in this thing but I'm not about to run out and ditch my existing stable of 9x19s for these. Not just yet anyway.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:49:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: The whole benefit of 380 over 9mm is that it’s a shorter OAL and will fit in a smaller gun. This thing looks like it’s even a bit longer than 9mm, so it won’t fit in any of the 380 pocket pistols. A couple more rounds is nice and all but at this point there’s so much momentum behind 9mm it’s not like they’re going to supplant it as the go-to defensive cartridge. I’ll also point out it’s not large enough to use for USPSA, so it won’t even be adopted as a gaming cartridge to try to get a few more rounds in your paper punching gun The OAL in the specs on the previous page show this round is 1.169". That's exactly the same as 9mm. The .380 is only .185" shorter than these two. That's not really the advantage of the round. It has ~40% less pressure/energy than 9mm making it easier to put in the sort of tiny blowback guns it's traditionally been found in. It's also easier to shoot. Now that we've seen a big proliferation in little pistols using the Browning system, it might be interesting to see where they draw the line with this cartridge. Quoted: 9mm and .380 are so close in length that the size of the cartridge makes no real difference. The problem is building such a small and light gun that can handle the pressure and recoil of 9mm. If that wasn't the problem, .380 +p+ that matches/beats 9x19mm standard pressure would be a thing.  Read what you just wrote and think about it. lol Generally speaking, the industry is never going to make a super hot version of a common old cartridge without changing the dimensions of that cartridge because they don't want to blow guns up. This is the reason why .357mag exists. The original .357mag loads were just really hot .38spls loaded up for N-frames. They extended the case 1/8" and changed the name for factory loads so it couldn't be fed to .38spl firearms. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:57:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would someone mind posting where we got this 50k PSI number from? Published here first. https://eb-misfit.blogspot.com/2022/01/8mm-or-30-super-carry.html I guess the chart is leaked from Hornady? |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 12:58:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Glockenspiel announce the G87 for this caliber yet?
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:18:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since the capacity is 10 instead of 8, I am going with this is a new fad caliber that's basically a .32ACP but rimless and loaded to higher pressure. I will laugh my ass off it it turns out to be 7.6520mm Longue.  That's exactly what I'm suspecting it is. I had this idea myself a year ago as a one-off glock or something I could cobble up just to see how many more rounds I could get in a standard magazine. The math led me to believe not as many as I was hoping. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 2:31:11 AM EDT
[#14]
 Right to left: .30 Pedersen, .30-18 Browning, 7.65x20mm French Longue, .32 ACP, 9x19mm Parabellum. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 2:36:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF (and this is a massive if): ...a major manufacturer has developed a round that reliably meets the FBI protocol AND has a smaller case diameter than 9X19, it's a very, very big deal. I totally agree. Along with less recoil and more rounds on board.... this could be huge... |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:00:38 AM EDT
[#16]
I want the conversion kit (barrel and mags) for my P365
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:05:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would someone mind posting where we got this 50k PSI number from?  Attached FileEta Gonna be a handful if it's in a tiny little gun |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:24:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistorySo it’s 7.65 Para but without the bottleneck? |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:58:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Federal's site for it: https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be a BIG deal. Actually, that 9mm can now reliably pass the FBI protocol is a BIG deal. That is a recent (less than 5 years ago) development. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IF (and this is a massive if): ...a major manufacturer has developed a round that reliably meets the FBI protocol AND has a smaller case diameter than 9X19, it's a very, very big deal. That would be a BIG deal. Actually, that 9mm can now reliably pass the FBI protocol is a BIG deal. That is a recent (less than 5 years ago) development. 5 years?  Rounds such as the 124gr+P Gold Dots have been around for about 20 years now.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 4:07:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I totally agree. Along with less recoil and more rounds on board.... this could be huge... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IF (and this is a massive if): ...a major manufacturer has developed a round that reliably meets the FBI protocol AND has a smaller case diameter than 9X19, it's a very, very big deal. I totally agree. Along with less recoil and more rounds on board.... this could be huge... Eh…Still not seeing it yet. Not saying you’re wrong but I don’t buy this as the 9mm killer y’all seem to be seeing |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:52:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Yawn..... why don't the gunmakers just fill the Hellcat and Sig365 with 21 rounds of 22mag already. No recoil, fast sight recovery, and the woman's hands will stay looking prettier.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:57:03 AM EDT
[#22]
If I make an observation, when Smith introduced the EZ line, many gun guys said " but why "? They were not interested.
The pistols however sold like hotcakes. Hard core gun guys were not the target market. I think this is the same. An easy to shoot round with an easy to shoot gun for women and elderly. I think my wife will like it. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:47:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryIf the boxes are marked 8mm, gun shops will finally have ammo to sell to the gang bangers who show up with blank-firing guns. 8mm is traditionally a blank cartridge. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:55:21 AM EDT
[#24]
I could see gun gamers adopting this. +2 Capacity with a cartridge they can load down for 2 Gun or 3 Gun or up to make major for USPSA with less worry about blowing your gun up.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 8:00:03 AM EDT
[#25]
This will be even more popular than 45GAP!
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Posted: 1/5/2022 8:01:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of this. The capacity gains we could see in handguns could be pretty crazy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IF (and this is a massive if): ...a major manufacturer has developed a round that reliably meets the FBI protocol AND has a smaller case diameter than 9X19, it's a very, very big deal. All of this. The capacity gains we could see in handguns could be pretty crazy. This has to be the idea. This was developed after seeing the popularity of all the new high-cap micro carry guns. Now they can try to sell them to you all over again with even higher capacity. If the round performs alright (and seeing an HST loading gives me hope) and they can produce it at a reasonable price they’ll have a huge hit with booms in both ammo and gun sales. I doubt it goes anywhere though. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 8:03:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Shield Plus would be the most compelling option so far. We know that holds 10+1 and 13+1 in 9mm, so this could hold 15+ rounds in a gun the size of an original Shield. I'd expect Sig, Ruger, and maybe Springfield to get involved fairly early. Glock and HK are going to resist joining the fun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Has my interest.... but a 1911 and a shitbox S&E EZ are not the guns I want it in. The Shield Plus would be the most compelling option so far. We know that holds 10+1 and 13+1 in 9mm, so this could hold 15+ rounds in a gun the size of an original Shield. I'd expect Sig, Ruger, and maybe Springfield to get involved fairly early. Glock and HK are going to resist joining the fun. Glock will release theirs a decade late and somehow it’ll be slightly bigger than competition yet hold one less round. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 8:46:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always wondered about a modernized 7.62x20 Longue, running modern powder at what would be considered +P+ pressures from compressed loads. Of course, the ammo would have to be labeled "Ruger only." Kharn Lol |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 8:48:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This could actually be a pretty cool development. With the smaller case diameter, gaining a few rounds capacity over 380 and possibly beating it ballistically could be a nice improvement. I've always thought 380 was a stupid round, being the same diameter as 9mm and just a tad shorter, but a much weaker cartridge. It just never made much sense to me. This round could make up the difference.  .380 made sense in that it was the higher levels of power that could be loaded into a direct blowback pistol. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:23:34 AM EDT
[#30]
If it's real it's kind of cool. It seems like a LOT people gravitate towards 9mm because of capacity and lower recoil so this should be even better on both accounts. Sure the bullet is smaller but that shouldn't matter what with all the popular coping tropes like "all handguns suck" or "there's no difference between 9/40/45", right? If a person chooses to carry what they shoot best, that's always going to favor the lowest recoiling setup that still performs "acceptably" so maybe this could work. Perhaps not the best timing for it but then again, with the endless introduction of small micro 9mm's it's kind of fresh to see something that isn't,well, a 9mm.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:25:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dang. What a waste. .30 at 1200 is better than .35 at 1250?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder if this is some new wonder round being introduced at SHOT show and a few retailers jumped the gun. Found something saying the 100 grain ammo runs around 1200fps... so basically it's a smaller diameter 9mm... and for what? Dang. What a waste. .30 at 1200 is better than .35 at 1250? Person hit won't know the difference. That's the point. We've accepted the fact that there is no practical difference between 9mm and .45acp. Round count tends to win gunfights. So, if you can have a round that is "good enough" and jam more of them in the same size pistol....that is a good thing. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:30:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF (and this is a massive if): ...a major manufacturer has developed a round that reliably meets the FBI protocol AND has a smaller case diameter than 9X19, it's a very, very big deal. I had a thread about a year ago about my idea of a .30 carbine kurz and getting more rounds in a pistol. A member had a program that predicts potential ballistics given parameters, input. It said I couldn't get what I was looking for, so I kind of dropped the idea. Was looking for a .311 100gr XTP @1300fps. I would be comfortable carrying such a round |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:42:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't need to be a solid copper HP, and is probably more legal if its not to stay under the 25% jacket weight catch all. I had no problem going through every soft panel I tested with nickel rod in drilled out 90 grain XTPs in .380, and could shoot through two IIIa panels, 4" of clay, and multiple water jugs in 9mm. There's an old thread lost in the archives somewhere. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting, might be able to squeeze 90 grains at 1400 out of that, maybe. The right bullet (monolithic HP maybe?) could make that a very big deal. You can take a copper solid hp then drill it out and and put a nickel core (from welding rods) and it's not technically illegal, but it makes a darn fine ap round I believe all AP laws are BS. But, iirc, anything harder than copper in a pistol round is verboten. The finagled their way around ss109/m855 in AR pistols because of some wording minutiae in the law. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:47:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Hard no thank you.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:47:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a thread about a year ago about my idea of a .30 carbine kurz and getting more rounds in a pistol. A member had a program that predicts potential ballistics given parameters, input. It said I couldn't get what I was looking for, so I kind of dropped the idea. Was looking for a .311 100gr XTP @1300fps. I would be comfortable carrying such a round Lots of us have been saying basically the same thing for a long time. Now that I have seen the 50k psi, I agree that it won’t likely won’t work in an lcp max type gun, which sucks. But for the 365 sized guns, I think this has utility still. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:48:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Capacity increase would be my guess. Imagine a full size gun with a 22-24rd flush mag, or a PCC with 46-50. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder if this is some new wonder round being introduced at SHOT show and a few retailers jumped the gun. Found something saying the 100 grain ammo runs around 1200fps... so basically it's a smaller diameter 9mm... and for what? Capacity increase would be my guess. Imagine a full size gun with a 22-24rd flush mag, or a PCC with 46-50. Now that could be interesting. The single stack seems utterly pointless to me. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:50:33 AM EDT
[#37]
If I just keep my Kahr with 8 rounds of 9mm can I still hang out with the cool kids?
Social status is important if you want to talk tough at the gunshop counter. 
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:51:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And 50-70 rounds in a pdw-type weapon.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Base diameters: 9x19 - .391" .380acp - .374" 7.65x20 - .336" Basically, we're looking at a cartridge that's ~15% smaller in diameter than 9mm. Given that the standard Shield EZ 380 holds 8 rounds and this one apparently holds 10, that tracks. Now imagine roughly... 18 rounds in a G19 13 rounds in a P365 21 rounds in a G17 or Beretta 92 8 rounds in a G42 12 rounds in a LCP Max All with flush fit mags. This could get fun. And 50-70 rounds in a pdw-type weapon.... And it would work with your standard 30 caliber can. Yep, I'm warming up to this a little. I won't buy one right away, but it's definitely interesting. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:51:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Person hit won't know the difference. That's the point. We've accepted the fact that there is no practical difference between 9mm and .45acp. Round count tends to win gunfights. So, if you can have a round that is "good enough" and jam more of them in the same size pistol....that is a good thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wonder if this is some new wonder round being introduced at SHOT show and a few retailers jumped the gun. Found something saying the 100 grain ammo runs around 1200fps... so basically it's a smaller diameter 9mm... and for what? Dang. What a waste. .30 at 1200 is better than .35 at 1250? Person hit won't know the difference. That's the point. We've accepted the fact that there is no practical difference between 9mm and .45acp. Round count tends to win gunfights. So, if you can have a round that is "good enough" and jam more of them in the same size pistol....that is a good thing. Hits win gun fights, round count increases the chance of a hit. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:51:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Does not really do all that much better than 9mm. Wonder what the street price of the ammunition will be?
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:52:53 AM EDT
[#41]
HATERS GONNA HATE.
It'll be the perfect BUG to my .356 TSW. 
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:53:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's exactly what I'm suspecting it is. I had this idea myself a year ago as a one-off glock or something I could cobble up just to see how many more rounds I could get in a standard magazine. The math led me to believe not as many as I was hoping. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Since the capacity is 10 instead of 8, I am going with this is a new fad caliber that's basically a .32ACP but rimless and loaded to higher pressure. I will laugh my ass off it it turns out to be 7.6520mm Longue. That's exactly what I'm suspecting it is. I had this idea myself a year ago as a one-off glock or something I could cobble up just to see how many more rounds I could get in a standard magazine. The math led me to believe not as many as I was hoping. Yep. That was another thing that I figured out thanks to another poster using simple math to show my thinking was wrong. I had area in my head and how small the area of .30 compared to .355 is. But that isn't reality. Reality is column stack of .30 vs .35 (actually case diameter, but you get the idea). You just don't get that many more. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 9:57:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of us have been saying basically the same thing for a long time. Now that I have seen the 50k psi, I agree that it won’t likely won’t work in an lcp max type gun, which sucks. But for the 365 sized guns, I think this has utility still. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I had a thread about a year ago about my idea of a .30 carbine kurz and getting more rounds in a pistol. A member had a program that predicts potential ballistics given parameters, input. It said I couldn't get what I was looking for, so I kind of dropped the idea. Was looking for a .311 100gr XTP @1300fps. I would be comfortable carrying such a round Lots of us have been saying basically the same thing for a long time. Now that I have seen the 50k psi, I agree that it won’t likely won’t work in an lcp max type gun, which sucks. But for the 365 sized guns, I think this has utility still. A Glock 43X with 18-20 8mm with the same momentum as 115grn 9mm?  Attached FileKharn |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that could be interesting. The single stack seems utterly pointless to me. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:05:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HATERS GONNA HATE. It'll be the perfect BUG to my .356 TSW. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:07:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOh ok, so let's compare our new cartridge to the underdog 380 to show its superiority, while 9MM still makes bigger holes at similar velocity. Meanwhile, in the rush to buy the new 30 Super Carry, the sheeple leave more of my favorite calibers on the shelf. Winning. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:14:13 AM EDT
[#47]
I like it.
Will buy. I hope they do a full size M&P with a thinner than 9mm frame and slide but a capacity around 24 or so rounds. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:24:07 AM EDT
[#48]
And yet capitalist fools 7.62 Tokarev too long ignoring.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:26:35 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet capitalist fools 7.62 Tokarev too long ignoring. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 10:26:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it’s 7.65 Para but without the bottleneck? In a totally backwards way from what we usually mean by without a bottleneck, yes. |
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