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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:26:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would venture to say a large subset of the people this will be of interest to won’t care at all. They will see a gun they can control and work and ammo someone said is good. As for the heavy clothing I like the worst case scenario when you have worst and best to look at (heavy and no clothing) and they did change specifications to better reflect real world clothing. It’s now t shirt material, button up material, fleece, and denim. Which is basically a guy wearing two shirts and a light jacket. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All the comparisons to bottleneck rounds miss the point. 45Gap was at least size related but didn't gain mag cap. The best comparison is probably 30 super vs 9 = 9 vs 45. That hasn't gone so bad for 9. Yup. You get more rounds in a mag plus a slightly smaller gun. In theory you get 9mm velocity and expansion and add 4 or 6 rounds of capacity. I don’t care about velocity or energy. I want to see penetration and expansion data for all of the FBI test criteria. It’s telling that they compared it to one of the worst performing 380 loads and only one 9mm load. I expect it will outperform 380, but require a 9mm sized gun. So how does it compare to 147Gn HST? How does it compare to 124Gn +P Gold Dot? How does it compare to 127Gn +P+ SXT? What if we compare it to a bunch of 9mm loads? https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/ I slapped these numbers in Excel and did a little math. There are 52 loads tested here. For each, there's a 5 shot average diameter and a 5 shot average depth. The average expansion for these 52 loads is .515" with a median expansion of .52". The average penetration for these 52 loads is 17.4" with a median penetration of 18.1". Federal is advertising the .30SC HST load at .530" expansion and 15.5" of penetration. That's better expansion than most 9mm loads with penetration that's still more than adequate. You can’t compare clear gel to real gel directly. Fortunately you can go to the federal LE website and get valid test results for many of their products if you are really interested in seeing how it compares. https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ Federal gives us two other points of reference on their marketing site for .30SC... .380 99gr HST: 9.95" penetration and .588" expansion. 9mm 124gr HST: 14.5" penetration and .571" expansion. In what would be best described as a heavy clothing test. My point, which you ignored, is they cherry picked one test and only compared it to one 9mm load even though they have complete test data for at least a half dozen 9mm loads they manufacture. To be a valid 9mm contender it has to perform adequately in all the FBI tests while offering it’s potential increased capacity I didn't ignore it. But I'm also not going to sit here and go 253 clicks deep on their web page scraping 2 data points each for 6 tests for a variety of loads. The heavy clothing test is the most relevant, and that's the one they give us. Obviously, we take the results with a grain of salt since it's marketing, but I don't expect it to take long before 3rd parties do the same test. If their results are anywhere close to what this round can do in carry guns, this round is a win. I don’t know anyone that walks around wearing four layers of denim. I’d say a light clothing test is the most valid for CCW but the auto glass and steel (auto body) tests are very important as well. I would venture to say a large subset of the people this will be of interest to won’t care at all. They will see a gun they can control and work and ammo someone said is good. As for the heavy clothing I like the worst case scenario when you have worst and best to look at (heavy and no clothing) and they did change specifications to better reflect real world clothing. It’s now t shirt material, button up material, fleece, and denim. Which is basically a guy wearing two shirts and a light jacket. Yeah, bare gel is a best case test for expansion and worst case test for penetration. Heavy clothing is a worst case test for expansion and best case test for penetration. Your average gun owner doesn’t grasp the inverse relationship between expansion and penetration. So we see silly stuff like “I carry ball in the winter” |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:37:46 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:43:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 50k psi seems excessive to me. How many other pistol cartridges are running in that territory? 9mm & .40 S&W are around 35k psi. I wonder what kind of long term wear we're going to see with putting this in pistols designed for 9mm? Well, there are only two things on the gun that the pressure effects, the slide and the barrel. The barrel will have a 1mm larger hoop with the new caliber and the slide should be fine so I’m not worried about that. It’s recoil that would wreck guns and this has less of it. It’s just under 30% greater pressure than 9mm plus P and a little more than a 9mm proof round minimum. 356 TSW and 9x23 are there, and work. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:46:33 PM EDT
[#4]
But wouldn’t the recoil spring need to be really stiff? That might negate the market of “EZ” to use pistols geared towards novice/women/old people shooters
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:51:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, bare gel is a best case test for expansion and worst case test for penetration. Heavy clothing is a worst case test for expansion and best case test for penetration. Your average gun owner doesn’t grasp the inverse relationship between expansion and penetration. So we see silly stuff like “I carry ball in the winter” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All the comparisons to bottleneck rounds miss the point. 45Gap was at least size related but didn't gain mag cap. The best comparison is probably 30 super vs 9 = 9 vs 45. That hasn't gone so bad for 9. Yup. You get more rounds in a mag plus a slightly smaller gun. In theory you get 9mm velocity and expansion and add 4 or 6 rounds of capacity. I don’t care about velocity or energy. I want to see penetration and expansion data for all of the FBI test criteria. It’s telling that they compared it to one of the worst performing 380 loads and only one 9mm load. I expect it will outperform 380, but require a 9mm sized gun. So how does it compare to 147Gn HST? How does it compare to 124Gn +P Gold Dot? How does it compare to 127Gn +P+ SXT? What if we compare it to a bunch of 9mm loads? https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/ I slapped these numbers in Excel and did a little math. There are 52 loads tested here. For each, there's a 5 shot average diameter and a 5 shot average depth. The average expansion for these 52 loads is .515" with a median expansion of .52". The average penetration for these 52 loads is 17.4" with a median penetration of 18.1". Federal is advertising the .30SC HST load at .530" expansion and 15.5" of penetration. That's better expansion than most 9mm loads with penetration that's still more than adequate. You can’t compare clear gel to real gel directly. Fortunately you can go to the federal LE website and get valid test results for many of their products if you are really interested in seeing how it compares. https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ Federal gives us two other points of reference on their marketing site for .30SC... .380 99gr HST: 9.95" penetration and .588" expansion. 9mm 124gr HST: 14.5" penetration and .571" expansion. In what would be best described as a heavy clothing test. My point, which you ignored, is they cherry picked one test and only compared it to one 9mm load even though they have complete test data for at least a half dozen 9mm loads they manufacture. To be a valid 9mm contender it has to perform adequately in all the FBI tests while offering it’s potential increased capacity I didn't ignore it. But I'm also not going to sit here and go 253 clicks deep on their web page scraping 2 data points each for 6 tests for a variety of loads. The heavy clothing test is the most relevant, and that's the one they give us. Obviously, we take the results with a grain of salt since it's marketing, but I don't expect it to take long before 3rd parties do the same test. If their results are anywhere close to what this round can do in carry guns, this round is a win. I don’t know anyone that walks around wearing four layers of denim. I’d say a light clothing test is the most valid for CCW but the auto glass and steel (auto body) tests are very important as well. I would venture to say a large subset of the people this will be of interest to won’t care at all. They will see a gun they can control and work and ammo someone said is good. As for the heavy clothing I like the worst case scenario when you have worst and best to look at (heavy and no clothing) and they did change specifications to better reflect real world clothing. It’s now t shirt material, button up material, fleece, and denim. Which is basically a guy wearing two shirts and a light jacket. Yeah, bare gel is a best case test for expansion and worst case test for penetration. Heavy clothing is a worst case test for expansion and best case test for penetration. Your average gun owner doesn’t grasp the inverse relationship between expansion and penetration. So we see silly stuff like “I carry ball in the winter” What I find even funnier is “I don’t need ammunition that’s good with barriers I’m not a cop!” When the cops working in your community are around the exact same barriers you are. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:54:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But wouldn’t the recoil spring need to be really stiff? That might negate the market of “EZ” to use pistols geared towards novice/women/old people shooters I’d think it’ll use a 9mm recoil spring though I could be wrong, your running similar speed with less mass might even be a bit a lighter one. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:54:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, there are only two things on the gun that the pressure effects, the slide and the barrel. The barrel will have a 1mm larger hoop with the new caliber and the slide should be fine so I'm not worried about that. It's recoil that would wreck guns and this has less of it. It's just under 30% greater pressure than 9mm plus P and a little more than a 9mm proof round minimum. 356 TSW and 9x23 are there, and work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 50k psi seems excessive to me. How many other pistol cartridges are running in that territory? 9mm & .40 S&W are around 35k psi. I wonder what kind of long term wear we're going to see with putting this in pistols designed for 9mm? Well, there are only two things on the gun that the pressure effects, the slide and the barrel. The barrel will have a 1mm larger hoop with the new caliber and the slide should be fine so I'm not worried about that. It's recoil that would wreck guns and this has less of it. It's just under 30% greater pressure than 9mm plus P and a little more than a 9mm proof round minimum. 356 TSW and 9x23 are there, and work. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:57:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But wouldn’t the recoil spring need to be really stiff? That might negate the market of “EZ” to use pistols geared towards novice/women/old people shooters Recoil will be reduced if anything so I doubt it needs a stiffer spring. Maybe lighter. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 1:58:40 PM EDT
[#9]
The potential for noise concerns me but people have used the 357 successfully for decades.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:10:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What we need is full or mid size guns in 32 ACP, like a Glock 42. many people don't want or can't handle a ridiculously small 32, 380, or 9mm, such as elderly, recoil shy women, or teens, but would be able to handle a small mid size 32. We have decently sized pistols in 22 and 9mm, but very little in between. a glock 42 in 32ACP would be very popular |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:22:59 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:27:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But wouldn’t the recoil spring need to be really stiff? That might negate the market of “EZ” to use pistols geared towards novice/women/old people shooters Unlocking geometry is going to be more important than spring rate. If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:40:01 PM EDT
[#13]
This is pretty much the .327 "Auto-Mag" I've been wanting for years. Awesome.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:42:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Meh, I'd rather have 7.62x25
 
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:49:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. Why they couldn’t have just gone with 8mm Carry is beyond me |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:51:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why they couldn’t have just gone with 8mm Carry is beyond me Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. Why they couldn’t have just gone with 8mm Carry is beyond me .31M&P |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:55:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unlocking geometry is going to be more important than spring rate. If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. The slide unlocking will have to be figured out. And yea the name is just lame. Some marketing boomer came up with that…. Let’s call it “Super Carry!” Stupid. 300 Blitzkrieg has more panache… |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:58:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is pretty much the .327 "Auto-Mag" I've been wanting for years. Awesome. It’s a 32 Automag. 327 Automag would be 300fps faster. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 3:59:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the middle of an ammo shortage, I’m glad Federal is releasing new obscure calibers that nobody wants to make good use of the limited number of small pistol primers available. this. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 4:39:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .31M&P Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. Why they couldn’t have just gone with 8mm Carry is beyond me .31M&P It’s not a S&W cartridge. It’s a Federal cartridge. Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge “Super Carry” is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that’s both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: Federal Defense Personal Defense Etc. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 4:41:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge “Super Carry” is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that’s both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: The only think I can think of is that the developers were thinking along the lines of the .38 Super Comp. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 4:56:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pressure itself does not bother me but it going to be hard on your hearing if you shoot it with unprotected ears (such as in a self defense shooting). I can shoot most other self defense cartridge (9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP etc) without ear-pro and though unpleasant (an no doubt doing minor long term damage) those don't leave my ears ringing and temporarily def right after shooting them. This 30 Super Carry cartridge is going to leave you ears in pain and likely ringing for hours if not days after you shoot it with unprotected ears, much the same way the 327 Fed Mag does to people. Not sure the trade off is worth it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 50k psi seems excessive to me. How many other pistol cartridges are running in that territory? 9mm & .40 S&W are around 35k psi. I wonder what kind of long term wear we're going to see with putting this in pistols designed for 9mm? Well, there are only two things on the gun that the pressure effects, the slide and the barrel. The barrel will have a 1mm larger hoop with the new caliber and the slide should be fine so I'm not worried about that. It's recoil that would wreck guns and this has less of it. It's just under 30% greater pressure than 9mm plus P and a little more than a 9mm proof round minimum. 356 TSW and 9x23 are there, and work. I'm aware, however if they designed a case head strong enough for 50k, it is possible that fast burning powders can mitigate high muzzle pressure to some extent. .327 Federal has the added problems of a cylinder gap and 2" barrels. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:03:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I find even funnier is “I don’t need ammunition that’s good with barriers I’m not a cop!” When the cops working in your community are around the exact same barriers you are. It certainly seems reasonable to me that a LEO is much more likely to encounter barriers and extra penetration isn’t always the answer. I remember when we were a Hornady distributor the LE ammo rep was telling me that the critical defense stuff worked great in all their testing and he thought it was the better load for self defense. The sole reason Critical Duty exists is to cater to the FBI protocol so they can sell more ammo. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:04:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only think I can think of is that the developers were thinking along the lines of the .38 Super Comp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge “Super Carry” is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that’s both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: The only think I can think of is that the developers were thinking along the lines of the .38 Super Comp. As a self proclaimed spokesperson for Super 38 they missed the mark if that was the goal. Why name something for noteriety of a cartridge that probably 98%(generous probably) of people know nothing about. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:06:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What we need is full or mid size guns in 32 ACP, like a Glock 42. many people don't want or can't handle a ridiculously small 32, 380, or 9mm, such as elderly, recoil shy women, or teens, but would be able to handle a small mid size 32. We have decently sized pistols in 22 and 9mm, but very little in between. a glock 42 in 32ACP would be very popular I agree with that. 9mm is really tough for a small segment of shooters. They love .22lr, and it’s easy to understand why. I really do wish there were more .25acp and .32acp guns. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:21:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not a S&W cartridge. It's a Federal cartridge. Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge "Super Carry" is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that's both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: Federal Defense Personal Defense Etc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. Why they couldn't have just gone with 8mm Carry is beyond me .31M&P It's not a S&W cartridge. It's a Federal cartridge. Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge "Super Carry" is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that's both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: Federal Defense Personal Defense Etc. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:23:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, I'd rather have 7.62x25 
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:23:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They could have simply called it. 30 Federal Automatic. Not .30 Federal Automatic Gun? 
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:28:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Super high pressure cartridge with short barrel and pop-gun ballistics. Dumb idea. That's my fetish. I want a straight walled 90kpsi 4.6mm in a quad-stack mag, with a 3" barrel shooting rounds just over fragmentation velocity. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:28:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It certainly seems reasonable to me that a LEO is much more likely to encounter barriers and extra penetration isn’t always the answer. I remember when we were a Hornady distributor the LE ammo rep was telling me that the critical defense stuff worked great in all their testing and he thought it was the better load for self defense. The sole reason Critical Duty exists is to cater to the FBI protocol so they can sell more ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What I find even funnier is “I don’t need ammunition that’s good with barriers I’m not a cop!” When the cops working in your community are around the exact same barriers you are. It certainly seems reasonable to me that a LEO is much more likely to encounter barriers and extra penetration isn’t always the answer. I remember when we were a Hornady distributor the LE ammo rep was telling me that the critical defense stuff worked great in all their testing and he thought it was the better load for self defense. The sole reason Critical Duty exists is to cater to the FBI protocol so they can sell more ammo. Critical defense is good but is a bit shallow penetrating if that’s a concern and it may not be been awhile since I looked but iirc it also expands a bit larger which some would see as a bigger benefit. I also 100% agree that is the sole goal of critical duty and it does exceedingly well at it and seems to have a big following because it does it well. As a cop on a traffic stop that turns bad am I not working around the same barriers someone else is at the gas station in an armed robbery or in a parking lot? I guess I just don’t see the difference, the mission of the two is different but the areas there in are the same. I think if 12-18” of penetration is what you want in a shooting to guarantee reliable stops it shouldn’t matter what it needs to punch through first you want that same type of performance after. Plus if those are safe penetration numbers for a cop in a shooting around innocent people it’s also in my mind a safe penetration number for anyone else in a shooting around others. That said one of the beautiful things we have today is a ton of options bullet wise if one doesn’t exactly fit what you want or need in your particular situation there is probably an option that will. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 5:59:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 356TSW specs to 50k. 960Rowland hits 45k. 357SIG is 40k |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:03:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s not a S&W cartridge. It’s a Federal cartridge. Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge “Super Carry” is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that’s both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: Federal Defense Personal Defense Etc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this cartridge is "for real", it desperately needs a better name. Why they couldn’t have just gone with 8mm Carry is beyond me .31M&P It’s not a S&W cartridge. It’s a Federal cartridge. Choosing between metric and freedom units is one thing. Calling a cartridge “Super Carry” is something else entirely. They somehow found a name that’s both distasteful for gun guys and triggering for gun grabbers. Regardless of whether you call it a .30, .31, or 8mm, the suffix should have been something like: Federal Defense Personal Defense Etc. 7.9FED |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:05:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It certainly seems reasonable to me that a LEO is much more likely to encounter barriers and extra penetration isn’t always the answer. I remember when we were a Hornady distributor the LE ammo rep was telling me that the critical defense stuff worked great in all their testing and he thought it was the better load for self defense. The sole reason Critical Duty exists is to cater to the FBI protocol so they can sell more ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What I find even funnier is “I don’t need ammunition that’s good with barriers I’m not a cop!” When the cops working in your community are around the exact same barriers you are. It certainly seems reasonable to me that a LEO is much more likely to encounter barriers and extra penetration isn’t always the answer. I remember when we were a Hornady distributor the LE ammo rep was telling me that the critical defense stuff worked great in all their testing and he thought it was the better load for self defense. The sole reason Critical Duty exists is to cater to the FBI protocol so they can sell more ammo. Cars are common. You may be shooting out of your own, into someone else's or at someone using one for cover. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:06:34 PM EDT
[#34]
https://youtu.be/fGHxrE9HXBs
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:28:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://youtu.be/fGHxrE9HXBs This video is cringeworthy. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:32:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's my fetish. I want a straight walled 90kpsi 4.6mm in a quad-stack mag, with a 3" barrel shooting rounds just over fragmentation velocity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Super high pressure cartridge with short barrel and pop-gun ballistics. Dumb idea. That's my fetish. I want a straight walled 90kpsi 4.6mm in a quad-stack mag, with a 3" barrel shooting rounds just over fragmentation velocity. Where are the inconel cases with compressed charges that shoot at 150kpsi? We could get rifle performance out of a Glock 19. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:37:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://youtu.be/fGHxrE9HXBs     |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:40:18 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm holding out for the 30 Super Duper. The 30 Super will be obsoleted by it.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:41:16 PM EDT
[#39]
This is so dumb. I just drove from Missouri to New Mexico and back this week stopping at gun shops, bass pro, cabelas, and so on. Aside from some 9mm and .40 the pistol ammo shelf’s were empty. I can not recall the last time I walked in somewhere and saw a 50 round box of .357 magnum. But now all of the sudden federal wants to come out with this new cartridge? Jesus.
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:41:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, there are only two things on the gun that the pressure effects, the slide and the barrel. The barrel will have a 1mm larger hoop with the new caliber and the slide should be fine so I’m not worried about that. It’s recoil that would wreck guns and this has less of it. It’s just under 30% greater pressure than 9mm plus P and a little more than a 9mm proof round minimum. 356 TSW and 9x23 are there, and work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 50k psi seems excessive to me. How many other pistol cartridges are running in that territory? 9mm & .40 S&W are around 35k psi. I wonder what kind of long term wear we're going to see with putting this in pistols designed for 9mm? Well, there are only two things on the gun that the pressure effects, the slide and the barrel. The barrel will have a 1mm larger hoop with the new caliber and the slide should be fine so I’m not worried about that. It’s recoil that would wreck guns and this has less of it. It’s just under 30% greater pressure than 9mm plus P and a little more than a 9mm proof round minimum. 356 TSW and 9x23 are there, and work. That's hot.  Kharn |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:41:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IF (and this is a massive if): ...a major manufacturer has developed a round that reliably meets the FBI protocol AND has a smaller case diameter than 9X19, it's a very, very big deal. Given the current state of the FBI, I'm not jumping on their protocol bandwagon just yet. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 6:43:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This video is cringeworthy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://youtu.be/fGHxrE9HXBs This video is cringeworthy. They removed my comment on their Facebook post. They are removing everyone’s comments that are questioning their new caliber |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:05:25 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:09:38 PM EDT
[#44]
.31FUDD
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:14:53 PM EDT
[#45]
This is one of my favorite pistols. It’s slim,soft shooting and accurate.
 An improved version of the round certainly has me interested. |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:18:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Bring back the .356 TSW
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:19:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Another .45 GAP. Nice in concept but failed in execution. Unless S&W has a large department contract it will die on the vine.
IMHO |
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:19:31 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:20:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not .30 Federal Automatic Gun?
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Posted: 1/5/2022 7:22:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryIntroducing the Federal 312neckbeard. |
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