AH-1 Cobra/Super Cobra VS. AH-64 Apache..... - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AH-1 Cobra/Super Cobra VS. AH-64 Apache..... (Page 2 of 8)

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:24:53 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As an Army aviator I have flown the AH1G, AH1Q, and the AH1S Corbras and the AH64 and AH64 Long Bow Apaches. The AH64 Long Bow Apache wins hands down in all categories.

What about maintenance man hours per flight hour?

Major repair work is actually easier to do on the Apache because it has a more maintenance friendly design. I think the Cobra design is a bit more maintenance friendly for minor work. Just remember that they have to stuff all that new fangled stuff in those airframes, and the acess panels will invariably be in the wrong place on both. It's just life for the guy working on them no matter what service.

They are both complicated aircraft. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking they aren't.

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:28:11 PM EDT

[#2]

The viper is a one bad snake

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:28:34 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As an Army aviator I have flown the AH1G, AH1Q, and the AH1S Corbras and the AH64 and AH64 Long Bow Apaches. The AH64 Long Bow Apache wins hands down in all categories.

What about maintenance man hours per flight hour?

Major repair work is actually easier to do on the Apache because it has a more maintenance friendly design. I think the Cobra design is a bit more maintenance friendly for minor work. Just remember that they have to stuff all that new fangled stuff in those airframes, and the acess panels will invariably be in the wrong place on both. It's just life for the guy working on them no matter what service.

They are both complicated aircraft. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking they aren't.

Yep.

I always find it humerus, when people ask which aircraft is easier to maintain. They all have pluses and minuses. Where one out does the other, the other lacks...and vice verses.

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:35:07 PM EDT

[#4]

Vat aboot ze Hind?

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:42:43 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
They all have pluses and minuses. Where one out does the other, the other lacks...and vice verses.

That has been my experience maintaining F-15s,16s, and 22s.

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:44:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They all have pluses and minuses. Where one out does the other, the other lacks...and vice verses.

That has been my experience maintaining F-15s,16s, and 22s.

Sure, same here, after 28 years of fixed-wing and rotor-wing maintenance.

Posted: 12/23/2012 6:47:59 PM EDT

[#7]

As far as I know, the longbow apache radar has air to air modes.

Posted: 12/23/2012 7:06:04 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Vat aboot ze Hind?

I saw the first one the Army got it's hands on way back in the day. As an aircraft it was simple and not really that bad. The fire control sucked ass. Pretty much what you'd expect. Even without any sort of support, you could keep it flying, but without support you weren't going to shoot anything, and even if you could get the parts, the FC was simply a bullshit design. When you think of Sovet era stuff, "sophisticated" doesn't jump out as the first thing for a reason.

It had some limitations flying wise, but they all do. For a pilot that knows what he's doing, there's always a way to make it work. You just have to fly your aircraft.

There's a big secondary upgrade market due to the number of users out there. Upgrade services are available from most countries that have an active aviation industry. Mil (the factory) has some interesting upgrades for it.

It wouldn't be my choice, but it would be viable for a smaller country with limited resources.

You'll also notice the Army's always talking about the next gunship will need a limited troop transport capability. The Hind already had that, though for other reasons. Still, kinda humorous considering all the "pooh poohing" people used to do about that feature.

Posted: 12/23/2012 7:52:53 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Watch gun cam footage of the apache vs cobra...

Cobra sucks.

Apache kicks mega ass.

If the Marines didn't have to be "different" they would admit this and go with the Apache vs Cobra... and the Blackhawk vs Huey... just like they finally started using the M-4.

You know how I can tell you're not a Marine?

It has nothing to do with being different.

Marines make due.

Army budget> USMC budget

That old argument doesn't hold water anymore. The USMC has been paying top dollar for fancy doo-dads for the past number of years. V-22, F-35, MARSOC stuff, etc. Hell, they were the first ones to decide they wanted different service uniforms and got their digital camo and all the individual gear that corresponds to it, then got upset when others wanted the same pattern.

I respect the hell out of all of the Marines I've met or worked with. They're consistently very good at what they do. But they haven't had to scrounge anywhere near what I've heard from Pre-GWOT Marines or Pre-GWOT Army had to.

Pre-GWOT Army budget for an average line infantry Bn vs current USMC budget for an infantry Bn, which would you want?

Posted: 12/23/2012 7:56:53 PM EDT

[#10]

Apache is pretty much the best attack helicopter in the world with very little to no debate.

Posted: 12/23/2012 8:01:49 PM EDT

[#11]

Aegis wins.

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:00:06 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Watch gun cam footage of the apache vs cobra...

Cobra sucks.

Apache kicks mega ass.

If the Marines didn't have to be "different" they would admit this and go with the Apache vs Cobra... and the Blackhawk vs Huey... just like they finally started using the M-4.

You know how I can tell you're not a Marine?

It has nothing to do with being different.

Marines make due.

Army budget> USMC budget

That old argument doesn't hold water anymore. The USMC has been paying top dollar for fancy doo-dads for the past number of years. V-22, F-35, MARSOC stuff, etc. Hell, they were the first ones to decide they wanted different service uniforms and got their digital camo and all the individual gear that corresponds to it, then got upset when others wanted the same pattern.

I respect the hell out of all of the Marines I've met or worked with. They're consistently very good at what they do. But they haven't had to scrounge anywhere near what I've heard from Pre-GWOT Marines or Pre-GWOT Army had to.

Pre-GWOT Army budget for an average line infantry Bn vs current USMC budget for an infantry Bn, which would you want?

Marines get ~$30 billion. For the Army; I don't know, but its way over $150 billion.

Of course spending has gone up post GWOT, but the USMC is still far behind and in a game of catch-up. The MV-22 and the new F-35 are replacing equipment that have had the same holes since Vietnam (46's) and very dated flight systems (Harrier). The rail guns were quite a steal at $2200 a piece

It's getting better, slowly.

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:07:52 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
apache would anal rape the cobra

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:11:17 PM EDT

[#14]

Ya know, I don't think I'd want to be on the receiving end of either one. Since air to air is a not the main role of either platform I think there are too many factors in play to just say which is "better". If I were on a limited budget then obviously the Cobra would do fine. If I had an unlimited budget with umlimited resources to keep it flying then the Apache would get the nod. I'm getting the impression that the Apache is far more capable so in a war of attrition that means everything to be able to engage multiple targets at long distances and be able to GTFO when need be.

Ultimately knowing the differences between the Marine's role and the Army's role should be a factor in the reasoning. I'm glad they are both on our side.

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:16:00 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
http://aviationintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Multiple-Missile-Launch-600x450.jpg

Aegis wins.

This...

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:28:44 PM EDT

[#16]

Never seen an air-to-air missile mounted to an Apache. I know the capability is there to upgrade it to do so, but it wouldn't be all that easy.
Not a Cobra expert but I think they have that capability.

The AGM-114L RF missile might be able to do some air-to-air work when coupled with the fire control radar, but I've only ever seen that done in a simulator (to take out a Kiowa).

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:32:48 PM EDT

[#17]

the Cobra has a smaller target profile...

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:34:15 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
apache would anal rape the cobra

Better weapons, better radar.

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:45:47 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Who would win, CH-47 or CH-53?

I lol'd

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:50:27 PM EDT

[#20]

A challenger appears!

Posted: 12/23/2012 9:56:22 PM EDT

[#21]

Thanks QUIB! Yep, FNG here on site. Great site by the way! Lots of valuable information and healthy discussions. I have been around the traffic pattern a few times...like 20 years worth. Just throwing out my experience and opinion surrounding different attack helicopters. Lots of helicopter improvement over the years. Spent the aviation career in Air Cav and Attack Battalions. Marine super Cobra now on the Zulu version is a significant improvement over all other Cobras.

Posted: 12/23/2012 10:17:55 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
A challenger appears!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/MolonLabe/Airwolfsky.jpg

Doesn't that fucker have an ejection seat?

Posted: 12/23/2012 10:20:21 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
apache would anal rape the cobra

Wrong

Posted: 12/23/2012 10:21:56 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
apache would anal rape the cobra

Wrong

show me

Posted: 12/23/2012 10:24:45 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
apache would anal rape the cobra

Wrong

show me

Pop on over to Camp Pen. and see what is what

Posted: 12/23/2012 10:51:15 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A challenger appears!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/MolonLabe/Airwolfsky.jpg

Doesn't that fucker have an ejection seat?

Probably for good reason

Posted: 12/23/2012 11:15:36 PM EDT

[#27]

Cobra wins by default when the Apache fails to show due to maintenance schedule conflict.

Posted: 12/24/2012 4:44:11 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
As an Army aviator I have flown the AH1G, AH1Q, and the AH1S Corbras and the AH64 and AH64 Long Bow Apaches. The AH64 Long Bow Apache wins hands down in all categories.

So you've flown the AH-1W and AH-1Z too?

Oh wait, I see you're a troll. Nevermind.

SuperCobra FTMFW!

Posted: 12/24/2012 4:50:50 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
http://aviationintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Multiple-Missile-Launch-600x450.jpg

Aegis wins.

I love you!

[No Homo]

Posted: 12/24/2012 4:51:30 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As an Army aviator I have flown the AH1G, AH1Q, and the AH1S Corbras and the AH64 and AH64 Long Bow Apaches. The AH64 Long Bow Apache wins hands down in all categories.

So you've flown the AH-1W and AH-1Z too?

Oh wait, I see you're a troll. Nevermind.

SuperCobra FTMFW!

No troll here. Have not flown the AH-1W nor the AH-1Z. Great helicopters by the way. All things have limitations.

Posted: 12/24/2012 4:54:30 AM EDT

[#31]

I think it looks sexier than an Apache.

Posted: 12/24/2012 4:56:06 AM EDT

[#32]

Posted: 12/24/2012 4:57:55 AM EDT

[#33]

I do believe the Longbow radar can be mounted on the AH-1Z's wintip station.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:01:36 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I think it looks sexier than an Apache.

http://i.imgur.com/hr6dT.jpg

I like the Apache, but have always prefered the looks of the Cobra.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:05:15 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Apache, since it can actually hit what the pilot is aiming at with the cannon.

I have seen enough dead guys from 20mm hit to know the gun is more than accurate enough.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:07:59 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Apache is pretty much the best attack helicopter in the world with very little to no debate.

Then throw in the Army WO crew with 30,000 hours versus a Marine officer crew with like 1200. While I'm sure the Cobra Z/W are fine, they would be smoked.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:09:13 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Apache, since it can actually hit what the pilot is aiming at with the cannon.

I have seen enough dead guys from 20mm hit to know the gun is more than accurate enough.

I've read that the aeral gunnery from a Zulu is pretty good too. Better than the 30mm from the Apache.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:12:03 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Watch gun cam footage of the apache vs cobra...

Cobra sucks.

Apache kicks mega ass.

If the Marines didn't have to be "different" they would admit this and go with the Apache vs Cobra... and the Blackhawk vs Huey... just like they finally started using the M-4.

You know how I can tell you're not a Marine?

It has nothing to do with being different.

Marines make due.

Army budget> USMC budget

That old argument doesn't hold water anymore. The USMC has been paying top dollar for fancy doo-dads for the past number of years. V-22, F-35, MARSOC stuff, etc. Hell, they were the first ones to decide they wanted different service uniforms and got their digital camo and all the individual gear that corresponds to it, then got upset when others wanted the same pattern.

I respect the hell out of all of the Marines I've met or worked with. They're consistently very good at what they do. But they haven't had to scrounge anywhere near what I've heard from Pre-GWOT Marines or Pre-GWOT Army had to.

Pre-GWOT Army budget for an average line infantry Bn vs current USMC budget for an infantry Bn, which would you want?

Marines get ~$30 billion. For the Army; I don't know, but its way over $150 billion.

Of course spending has gone up post GWOT, but the USMC is still far behind and in a game of catch-up. The MV-22 and the new F-35 are replacing equipment that have had the same holes since Vietnam (46's) and very dated flight systems (Harrier). The rail guns were quite a steal at $2200 a piece

It's getting better, slowly.

The high water mark for USMC budgets was FY 08 with 48.2 billion to include OCO and BSOG with the baseline never getting above 26.2

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:13:08 AM EDT

[#39]

AH64E FTW

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:13:45 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
apache would anal rape the cobra

Wrong

show me

Pop on over to Camp Pen. and see what is what

THey must routinely have ah-64 vs ah-1 duals, I will head right on over.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:14:58 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
As an Army aviator I have flown the AH1G, AH1Q, and the AH1S Corbras and the AH64 and AH64 Long Bow Apaches. The AH64 Long Bow Apache wins hands down in all categories.

You are disqualified from participating in a discussion on this subject in GD...since you actually know what the fuck you're talking about.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:15:06 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Apache is pretty much the best attack helicopter in the world with very little to no debate.

Then throw in the Army WO crew with 30,000 hours versus a Marine officer crew with like 1200. While I'm sure the Cobra Z/W are fine, they would be smoked.

Once you get in the high hours numbers it really doesn't matter much anymore.

The real difference between how Marine aviation and Army aviation is we treat them more like fighter/attack aircraft while the Army treats them more like helicopters.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:17:11 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
As an Army aviator I have flown the AH1G, AH1Q, and the AH1S Corbras and the AH64 and AH64 Long Bow Apaches. The AH64 Long Bow Apache wins hands down in all categories.

You are disqualified from participating in a discussion on this subject in GD...since you actually know what the fuck you're talking about.

Comparing an Army Cobra to a Marine Corps Zulu Cobra is like comparing an F-5 to a SuperHornet. Apples and onions.

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:23:56 AM EDT

[#44]

Pretty cool shot of an IDF Apache

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:24:30 AM EDT

[#45]

And a cool shot of the sneaky russians

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:39:54 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Watch gun cam footage of the apache vs cobra...

Cobra sucks.

Apache kicks mega ass.

If the Marines didn't have to be "different" they would admit this and go with the Apache vs Cobra... and the Blackhawk vs Huey... just like they finally started using the M-4.

You know how I can tell you're not a Marine?

It has nothing to do with being different.

Marines make due.

Army budget> USMC budget

That old argument doesn't hold water anymore. The USMC has been paying top dollar for fancy doo-dads for the past number of years. V-22, F-35, MARSOC stuff, etc. Hell, they were the first ones to decide they wanted different service uniforms and got their digital camo and all the individual gear that corresponds to it, then got upset when others wanted the same pattern.

I respect the hell out of all of the Marines I've met or worked with. They're consistently very good at what they do. But they haven't had to scrounge anywhere near what I've heard from Pre-GWOT Marines or Pre-GWOT Army had to.

Pre-GWOT Army budget for an average line infantry Bn vs current USMC budget for an infantry Bn, which would you want?

Marines get ~$30 billion. For the Army; I don't know, but its way over $150 billion.

Of course spending has gone up post GWOT, but the USMC is still far behind and in a game of catch-up. The MV-22 and the new F-35 are replacing equipment that have had the same holes since Vietnam (46's) and very dated flight systems (Harrier). The rail guns were quite a steal at $2200 a piece

It's getting better, slowly.

-Minor rant-

Comparing the 'total' budgets of the Army to the USMC is a huge apples to oranges scenario.

Does the USMC operate / maintain / staff hospitals or surgical training programs?

Does the USMC maintain and sustain the logistics capacity of the US Army? US Army logistics is massive in scope.

Does the USMC run the type of schools that the Army (TRADOC) does USMA / Airborne / Ranger / SF etc? (Every school I ever went to had Marines in attendance...)

I am not knocking the USMC in terms of fighting ability. But if you have only been in the Marines and not gotten out much- you may not realize how truly large 'Big Army' is.

4073

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:44:35 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Watch gun cam footage of the apache vs cobra...

Cobra sucks.

Apache kicks mega ass.

If the Marines didn't have to be "different" they would admit this and go with the Apache vs Cobra... and the Blackhawk vs Huey... just like they finally started using the M-4.

You know how I can tell you're not a Marine?

It has nothing to do with being different.

Marines make due.

Army budget> USMC budget

That old argument doesn't hold water anymore. The USMC has been paying top dollar for fancy doo-dads for the past number of years. V-22, F-35, MARSOC stuff, etc. Hell, they were the first ones to decide they wanted different service uniforms and got their digital camo and all the individual gear that corresponds to it, then got upset when others wanted the same pattern.

I respect the hell out of all of the Marines I've met or worked with. They're consistently very good at what they do. But they haven't had to scrounge anywhere near what I've heard from Pre-GWOT Marines or Pre-GWOT Army had to.

Pre-GWOT Army budget for an average line infantry Bn vs current USMC budget for an infantry Bn, which would you want?

Marines get ~$30 billion. For the Army; I don't know, but its way over $150 billion.

Of course spending has gone up post GWOT, but the USMC is still far behind and in a game of catch-up. The MV-22 and the new F-35 are replacing equipment that have had the same holes since Vietnam (46's) and very dated flight systems (Harrier). The rail guns were quite a steal at $2200 a piece

It's getting better, slowly.

-Minor rant-

Comparing the 'total' budgets of the Army to the USMC is a huge apples to oranges scenario.

Does the USMC operate / maintain / staff hospitals or surgical training programs?

Does the USMC maintain and sustain the logistics capacity of the US Army? US Army logistics is massive in scope.

Does the USMC run the type of schools that the Army (TRADOC) does USMA / Airborne / Ranger / SF etc? (Every school I ever went to had Marines in attendance...)

I am not knocking the USMC in terms of fighting ability. But if you have only been in the Marines and not gotten out much- you may not realize how truly large 'Big Army' is.

4073

Yes, it falls under Blue in Support of Green Dollars (BSOG or sometimes refereed to as BiSOG)

Yes appox 1/3 of Marines are in the logistics combat element

Yes, the Marine Corps has its own schools take for example The Basic School (which 2 of 3 other services attempted to copy) Infantry Officers' Course, Assault Amphibian Course to name a few

Posted: 12/24/2012 5:47:08 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
And a cool shot of the sneaky russians

http://i.imgur.com/brjqg.jpg

Weren't these designed for air to air helicopter work? Once hear a description of air to air as in, air to air in fighters is a dog fight, air to air in helicopters is a nasty cat fight.