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Posted: 12/28/2020 4:46:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote from the police chief
“one suspect who did all of the shooting is in custody along with all of the weapons.” |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 4:48:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes you wonder, did they even ask him??? Nothing they say will excuse it, but I still always wonder. They probably did. Latest article: https://www.rrstar.com/story/news/2020/12/28/attorneys-green-beret-rockford-bowling-alley-shooting-suffers-ptsd/4059816001/ Seems he admitted to the cops that he did the shooting and where he stashed the guns. Lawyers are going for PTSD/memory loss angle, no mention of self defense. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 4:54:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Navy SEAL - Big dudes. Monsters made for extreme violence of action. Green Berets/Rangers - Scrawny sneaky dudes made to live off bird feathers and leaf dew for months with no support. Bull. They all do lots of direct action shit, even if it's not what SF is "primarily" supposed to do. ALL Rangers do is DA, and a lot of them are beasts of men. Idk where you got any of that. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 5:09:19 PM EDT
[#4]
I would just say that assuming that any “facts” in a media article like this are actually real facts is a risky proposition.
The media can be handed a printed briefing sheet by the PIO and still get very basic facts wrong. I wouldn’t believe anything about anything for certain, but going off with crazy theories, while fun, is probably pointless. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 5:50:53 PM EDT
[#5]
I will wait for more information, from reliable sources, to be presented. With that said this doesn't look good.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 5:51:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of the SF guys I knew were really big. They spent a lot of time lifting and probably taking illegal steroids. Rangers mostly just do direct action with support. I guess he got to go some unusual places and do interesting shit. I know he spent some time with the Montagnards. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 5:52:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Courts have found that premeditation can be formed in an instant. More "guilty" people = more "criminals off the streets". |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 5:59:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote from the police chief Well the police chief cleared up a lot of what didn’t happen and theories in here. The soldier was the only one doing the shooting. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 6:12:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well the police chief cleared up a lot of what didn’t happen and theories in here. The soldier was the only one doing the shooting. Yep. And here's the latest press conference:  LIVE: Update on Don Carter Lanes shooting suspect from Winnebago County State's Attorney J Hanley go to 13m50s for start. Complaint is here. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 6:33:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of the SF guys I knew were really big. They spent a lot of time lifting and probably taking illegal steroids. Rangers mostly just do direct action with support. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Negative A lot of the SF guys I knew were really big. They spent a lot of time lifting and probably taking illegal steroids. Rangers mostly just do direct action with support. I've known some who were bulky muscular and others who were scrawny. One instructor in my area went on to a career as an accountant/auditor after his time in the Army, and looks it; you'd never think he was one of the original members of the reformed 1st Ranger Battalion or that he then got commissioned and was a Special Forces officer. Bigger guys may be able to haul more, but they pay for it in increased caloric requirements. One SF officer was nicknamed "Orca" in the early '90's, very built guy, but by 10am he was scrounging for any MRE's guys had stashed away because he'd burned off breakfast and was starving, when you have very low body fat, you have no reserves. Another guy (SPC at the time, later commissioned, another one you wouldn't know was SF unless he told you) commented that bumping into him in the halls was like walking into a brick wall, but after he went to scuba school, it was like walking into a steel girder. MOST of the SF/Ranger/CAG guys I've seen were fit and clearly had muscles, but were not bulky. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 6:37:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MOST of the SF/Ranger/CAG guys I've seen were fit and clearly had muscles, but were not bulky. They are all chiseled from the most flawless steel! 
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Posted: 12/28/2020 6:40:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am going with crazy possibly due to PTSD. He left Duke Field (high of 58) to go to Rockford IL (high of 31). Crazy as a bed bug. Crazy enough to have enough hindsight and hide the two handguns used in the shooting, then walk out trying to blend in with the crowd? |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 6:48:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Shooter's Bar and Grill - they got more shootin' than they were bargaining for...
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Posted: 12/28/2020 6:57:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. And here's the latest press conference:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htQoXyX4B_4go to 13m50s for start. Complaint is here. Well damn, there it is. Wonder what caused him to snap? |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:17:57 PM EDT
[#15]
https://www.wifr.com/2020/12/28/alleged-don-carter-lanes-shooter-denied-bail/?fbclid=IwAR2v0cNA_6xa4ze-K713evw3fP_gDgFlHiLZKCpkG_C8r6hLSNRaEKPnfQU
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:19:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crazy enough to have enough hindsight and hide the two handguns used in the shooting, then walk out trying to blend in with the crowd? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am going with crazy possibly due to PTSD. He left Duke Field (high of 58) to go to Rockford IL (high of 31). Crazy as a bed bug. Crazy enough to have enough hindsight and hide the two handguns used in the shooting, then walk out trying to blend in with the crowd? Exactly what SF would try to do: evade and escape after an altercation. Kharn |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:21:18 PM EDT
[#17]
The more info that comes out makes it more clear some in GD are trying to circle the wagons around a psychopath mass murderer
Shot directly at the juveniles first. Wow. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:21:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we are speculating motive still: Did the older guys have service records? I can imagine a scenario where some VFW big dogs were talking shit either directly or within earshot of this guy and he got offended. They seemed to be the primaries from what little I know. Talking shit justifies the killing of the old guys and shooting children? Some people here are jumping through hoops to make this guy's actions justifiable. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:22:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Had they guy done deployments? I can only assume so. PTSD triggered somehow?
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:23:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Talking shit justifies the killing of the old guys and shooting children? Some people here are jumping through hoops to make this guy's actions justifiable. Yeah it’s disgusting. And he shot the juveniles first as they sat at a table. No crossfire or any of that other bullshit being spewed in here |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:27:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are all chiseled from the most flawless steel! Ive supervised several Ranger Regiment alumni and one 18D in the Guard or Reserve and a couple of them were more like those animals chiseled from butter that KBR put in big base DFACs on Thanksgiving. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:39:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The more info that comes out makes it more clear some in GD are trying to circle the wagons around a psychopath mass murderer Shot directly at the juveniles first. Wow. Juveniles info is pretty new tbh. People circle the wagons around their own when there's doubt, and the idea of someone who achieved that much flipping out like a teenage school shooter when he's on Christmas leave is incredible. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:42:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had they guy done deployments? I can only assume so. PTSD triggered somehow? PTSD doesn't cause people to do this. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:44:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've known some who were bulky muscular and others who were scrawny. One instructor in my area went on to a career as an accountant/auditor after his time in the Army, and looks it; you'd never think he was one of the original members of the reformed 1st Ranger Battalion or that he then got commissioned and was a Special Forces officer. Bigger guys may be able to haul more, but they pay for it in increased caloric requirements. One SF officer was nicknamed "Orca" in the early '90's, very built guy, but by 10am he was scrounging for any MRE's guys had stashed away because he'd burned off breakfast and was starving, when you have very low body fat, you have no reserves. Another guy (SPC at the time, later commissioned, another one you wouldn't know was SF unless he told you) commented that bumping into him in the halls was like walking into a brick wall, but after he went to scuba school, it was like walking into a steel girder. MOST of the SF/Ranger/CAG guys I've seen were fit and clearly had muscles, but were not bulky. I'm going to go out on limb here and assume your rolodex of SF and CAG acquaintances is pretty slim. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 7:59:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to go out on limb here and assume your rolodex of SF and CAG acquaintances is pretty slim. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've known some who were bulky muscular and others who were scrawny. One instructor in my area went on to a career as an accountant/auditor after his time in the Army, and looks it; you'd never think he was one of the original members of the reformed 1st Ranger Battalion or that he then got commissioned and was a Special Forces officer. Bigger guys may be able to haul more, but they pay for it in increased caloric requirements. One SF officer was nicknamed "Orca" in the early '90's, very built guy, but by 10am he was scrounging for any MRE's guys had stashed away because he'd burned off breakfast and was starving, when you have very low body fat, you have no reserves. Another guy (SPC at the time, later commissioned, another one you wouldn't know was SF unless he told you) commented that bumping into him in the halls was like walking into a brick wall, but after he went to scuba school, it was like walking into a steel girder. MOST of the SF/Ranger/CAG guys I've seen were fit and clearly had muscles, but were not bulky. I'm going to go out on limb here and assume your rolodex of SF and CAG acquaintances is pretty slim. Ah fuck it, I'll own it. We have some fatbodies! It's true. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:10:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Sorry to interrupt the circle jerk of people tripping over one another to publicly state they not only know an SF/Ranger/CAG dude but also can accurately describe the average archetype of each buuuutttt.....most of you are completely full of shit.
They are just fucking people. Some are jacked. Some are tiny. Some are overweight, some are chiseled fitness models. The only thing guaranteed by service in their respective organizations is that at one point 2-20+ years ago they met the higher physical, intelligence, and behavioral standards for entry, and if still in they haven't degraded those attributes to the point of being put out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah fuck it, I'll own it. We have some fatbodies! It's true. Lol. Its true for every organization. Time and wear takes its toll on everyone. Regiment tends to have less of those issues since its a nominative assignment where people can go back to the conventional force if they need to take a knee or recover. SF doesn't really have that option outside of periodic support and instructor assignments, they are somewhat forced to retain everybody through thick and thin (pun) unless they pull their tab. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:18:43 PM EDT
[#27]
I will go with he some sort of mental problem. He might have just seen targets not ages. When the shooting was done so was he. Sorry for the dead ,hope the wounded recover and he gets some help.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:27:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to go out on limb here and assume your rolodex of SF and CAG acquaintances is pretty slim. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've known some who were bulky muscular and others who were scrawny. One instructor in my area went on to a career as an accountant/auditor after his time in the Army, and looks it; you'd never think he was one of the original members of the reformed 1st Ranger Battalion or that he then got commissioned and was a Special Forces officer. Bigger guys may be able to haul more, but they pay for it in increased caloric requirements. One SF officer was nicknamed "Orca" in the early '90's, very built guy, but by 10am he was scrounging for any MRE's guys had stashed away because he'd burned off breakfast and was starving, when you have very low body fat, you have no reserves. Another guy (SPC at the time, later commissioned, another one you wouldn't know was SF unless he told you) commented that bumping into him in the halls was like walking into a brick wall, but after he went to scuba school, it was like walking into a steel girder. MOST of the SF/Ranger/CAG guys I've seen were fit and clearly had muscles, but were not bulky. I'm going to go out on limb here and assume your rolodex of SF and CAG acquaintances is pretty slim. Ones I'm still in touch with? Dozen or more, including extended family sending me stuff earlier today about Wikileaks supposedly releasing a bunch of information, but he's a retired SF officer. Others I've just met at events such as the Best Ranger Competition when my brother and his former Regiment partner completed it. Plus a few dozen several decades ago, but those will get dismissed because they were Guard, or the TAC NCO when I was in ROTC (of course, he never told ME he was Delta, one of the officers did). But you'll note I very carefully limited my statement to those I've seen/met. It's not like I try to go hang around military bases fanboying, I only go to one when invited by friends or family. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:39:04 PM EDT
[#29]
This is all over the Chicago news. If the shooter was in bad of shape mentally as they're saying he was - PTSD, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, etc., why was he still active duty?
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:44:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is all over the Chicago news. If the shooter was in bad of shape mentally as they're saying he was - PTSD, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, etc., why was he still active duty? They aren't going to kick a guy to the street for having anxiety. I'm guessing we're not going to know the truth for a while. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:48:17 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:56:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is all over the Chicago news. If the shooter was in bad of shape mentally as they're saying he was - PTSD, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, etc., why was he still active duty? You are describing a significant portion of SNCO's with extensive combat experience. You don't just put everybody out for that, especially since everybody deals with it differently and it's often shaped by external or environmental factors. I don't know the specifics of his case, but I do know the failings of the Army health system very well, and one of the main issues I have witnessed is that there is a huge gap in treatment options for the above issues. Essentially it goes from little to nothing besides baseline appointments and annotating it on records until the individual becomes an immediate danger to himself or others. I have plenty of friends who were in real bad places but not quite to that formal marker of "hurting themselves or others" and the only answer for them is an appointment 2-4 weeks away and a good luck to you as they get ushered out of the building. The problem is in those several weeks either the problem resolves itself at that point or it spirals more out of control, at which point the servicemember is now already jaded from asking for help and getting blown off. Instead the Army farms that median area counselling and monitoring service out to "battlebuddies", which can help, but aren't much use when a soldier is gone on leave or came home early from a deployment with issues. Not many people get to that point in the middle of the duty day, it's usually while alone and under the influence of alcohol. I also have a half dozen close friends on active duty that have committed suicide over the past 15 years after getting caught in this loop. People who could have otherwise beat it but were let down and fell through some giant cracks. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 8:58:04 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm sure there's more. Multiple firearms at the scene??? Did they all belong to the SF guy? Is it possible the kids were hit by accident by the SF guy or another shooter? Was this a gunfight? I agree, if a SF trained guy snaps, you're going to get a lot more than 3 geriatrics killed and a couple kids wounded.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:00:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure there's more. Multiple firearms at the scene??? Did they all belong to the SF guy? Is it possible the kids were hit by accident by the SF guy or another shooter? Was this a gunfight? I agree, if a SF trained guy snaps, you're going to get a lot more than 3 geriatrics killed and a couple kids wounded. The local news said that the shooter lead the cops to the two guns - a Glock and a .38. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:02:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are describing a significant portion of SNCO's with extensive combat experience. You don't just put everybody out for that, especially since everybody deals with it differently and it's often shaped by external or environmental factors. I don't know the specifics of his case, but I do know the failings of the Army health system very well, and one of the main issues I have witnessed is that there is a huge gap in treatment options for the above issues. Essentially it goes from little to nothing besides baseline appointments and annotating it on records until the individual becomes an immediate danger to himself or others. I have plenty of friends who were in real bad places but not quite to that formal marker of "hurting themselves or others" and the only answer for them is an appointment 2-4 weeks away and a good luck to you as they get ushered out of the building. The problem is in those several weeks either the problem resolves itself at that point or it spirals more out of control, at which point the servicemember is now already jaded from asking for help and getting blown off. Instead the Army farms that median area counselling and monitoring service out to "battlebuddies", which can help, but aren't much use when a soldier is gone on leave or came home early from a deployment with issues. Not many people get to that point in the middle of the duty day, it's usually while alone and under the influence of alcohol. I also have a half dozen close friends on active duty that have committed suicide over the past 15 years after getting caught in this loop. People who could have otherwise beat it but were let down and fell through some giant cracks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is all over the Chicago news. If the shooter was in bad of shape mentally as they're saying he was - PTSD, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, etc., why was he still active duty? You are describing a significant portion of SNCO's with extensive combat experience. You don't just put everybody out for that, especially since everybody deals with it differently and it's often shaped by external or environmental factors. I don't know the specifics of his case, but I do know the failings of the Army health system very well, and one of the main issues I have witnessed is that there is a huge gap in treatment options for the above issues. Essentially it goes from little to nothing besides baseline appointments and annotating it on records until the individual becomes an immediate danger to himself or others. I have plenty of friends who were in real bad places but not quite to that formal marker of "hurting themselves or others" and the only answer for them is an appointment 2-4 weeks away and a good luck to you as they get ushered out of the building. The problem is in those several weeks either the problem resolves itself at that point or it spirals more out of control, at which point the servicemember is now already jaded from asking for help and getting blown off. Instead the Army farms that median area counselling and monitoring service out to "battlebuddies", which can help, but aren't much use when a soldier is gone on leave or came home early from a deployment with issues. Not many people get to that point in the middle of the duty day, it's usually while alone and under the influence of alcohol. I also have a half dozen close friends on active duty that have committed suicide over the past 15 years after getting caught in this loop. People who could have otherwise beat it but were let down and fell through some giant cracks. Local TV station website (WGN) is saying shooter had an upcoming appt for the TBI. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:02:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure there's more. Multiple firearms at the scene??? Did they all belong to the SF guy? Is it possible the kids were hit by accident by the SF guy or another shooter? Was this a gunfight? I agree, if a SF trained guy snaps, you're going to get a lot more than 3 geriatrics killed and a couple kids wounded. The court affidavit has been posted 1-shooter used two glocks, a .40 and a .380 2- shooter entered the building and immediately shot the two juveniles, who were seated at a table on the lower level 3-Green beret guy was the only person who fired shots It’s not in the affidavit but according to people at scene, a marked patrol unit happened to be driving by and was flagged down as people were fleeing. Officers entered the building within 1 minute of when calls started coming in so the shooting stopped quick. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:04:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lets hear all the facts but, if true it's really messed up a Green Beret shooting civilians. This doesn't not reflect against all Green Berets they would not do this. He could be a very troubled person. I'm very sorry for the people who died and hope the injured recover soon. Looks like he's one of those to be counted. 
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:04:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure there's more. Multiple firearms at the scene??? Did they all belong to the SF guy? Is it possible the kids were hit by accident by the SF guy or another shooter? Was this a gunfight? I agree, if a SF trained guy snaps, you're going to get a lot more than 3 geriatrics killed and a couple kids wounded. From the official complaint, seems like he started out shooting at the kids. And the whole thing was on video, so additional shooters should've been pretty obvious. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:04:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Local TV station website (WGN) is saying shooter had an upcoming appt for the TBI. I don't know any mass shooters, but every friend I've had that committed suicide had an upcoming appointment. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:07:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They probably did. Latest article: https://www.rrstar.com/story/news/2020/12/28/attorneys-green-beret-rockford-bowling-alley-shooting-suffers-ptsd/4059816001/ Seems he admitted to the cops that he did the shooting and where he stashed the guns. Lawyers are going for PTSD/memory loss angle, no mention of self defense. That won't fly. He might beat the death penalty, but he's going away for a long time. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:08:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ones I'm still in touch with? Dozen or more, including extended family sending me stuff earlier today about Wikileaks supposedly releasing a bunch of information, but he's a retired SF officer. Others I've just met at events such as the Best Ranger Competition when my brother and his former Regiment partner completed it. Plus a few dozen several decades ago, but those will get dismissed because they were Guard, or the TAC NCO when I was in ROTC (of course, he never told ME he was Delta, one of the officers did). But you'll note I very carefully limited my statement to those I've seen/met. It's not like I try to go hang around military bases fanboying, I only go to one when invited by friends or family. It comes across as very LRRPish or fanboyish. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:12:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Remember, gun banners say no one, except the Military & Police, should be allowed to have guns.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:14:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bull. They all do lots of direct action shit, even if it's not what SF is "primarily" supposed to do. ALL Rangers do is DA, and a lot of them are beasts of men. Idk where you got any of that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Navy SEAL - Big dudes. Monsters made for extreme violence of action. Green Berets/Rangers - Scrawny sneaky dudes made to live off bird feathers and leaf dew for months with no support. Bull. They all do lots of direct action shit, even if it's not what SF is "primarily" supposed to do. ALL Rangers do is DA, and a lot of them are beasts of men. Idk where you got any of that. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:18:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the official complaint, seems like he started out shooting at the kids. And the whole thing was on video, so additional shooters should've been pretty obvious. Fuuuck... 
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:20:27 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:33:26 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:36:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuuuck... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From the official complaint, seems like he started out shooting at the kids. And the whole thing was on video, so additional shooters should've been pretty obvious. Fuuuck... If I understood the guy doing the press conference correctly, one of the victims who lived, presumably the teenage girl, was hit three times including in the left eye. He had two guns, both Glock, one .380ACP the other .40S&W. Id have to guess the teenagers, who were shot first, were shot with the .380 since the one hit in the left eye lived. Could have been a grazing hit I guess, but if not, why would he start his shooting spree with his back up (which I can only guess is what it was)? All kinds of weird on this one. |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:40:43 PM EDT
[#48]
If he did what he has been accused, fuck him.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:44:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ones I'm still in touch with? Dozen or more, including extended family sending me stuff earlier today about Wikileaks supposedly releasing a bunch of information, but he's a retired SF officer. Others I've just met at events such as the Best Ranger Competition when my brother and his former Regiment partner completed it. Plus a few dozen several decades ago, but those will get dismissed because they were Guard, or the TAC NCO when I was in ROTC (of course, he never told ME he was Delta, one of the officers did). But you'll note I very carefully limited my statement to those I've seen/met. It's not like I try to go hang around military bases fanboying, I only go to one when invited by friends or family. He doesn’t try to hang around base fanboying, it just comes natural. Let’s face it, who doesn’t feel a little tingle when a soldier says, “tricare.” |
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Posted: 12/28/2020 9:45:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understood the guy doing the press conference correctly, one of the victims who lived, presumably the teenage girl, was hit three times including in the left eye. He had two guns, both Glock, one .380ACP the other .40S&W. Id have to guess the teenagers, who were shot first, were shot with the .380 since the one hit in the left eye lived. Could have been a grazing hit I guess, but if not, why would he start his shooting spree with his back up (which I can only guess is what it was)? All kinds of weird on this one. Either press conference or complaint screwed up, as in the complaint it's left thigh, not eye, and that was the 60-something fellow who was shot upstairs later but not killed. Teenage girl was hit in the shoulder, teenage boy in the face (I think some news reports said mouth). |
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