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Posted: 11/5/2011 5:06:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Serious question. Did ceiner design these kits? I ask because most other makers seem to use the same design. ETA: Asking about ar/m kits. he had the patents around which all 22lr conversions were built; this is why the market exploded in the last few years, as Ceiner's patents expired. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 5:34:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Serious question. Did ceiner design these kits? I ask because most other makers seem to use the same design. ETA: Asking about ar/m kits. he had the patents around which all 22lr conversions were built; this is why the market exploded in the last few years, as Ceiner's patents expired. Has he became an asshole only recently when his designs were taken and now gets 50 phone calls a day from people who can barely figure out how to load a mag yet say how shitty of a product his product is compaired to the whore brands now making them because they don't work in xyz shitty rifle? I don't know about his personal issues but have seen his conversions for years just never really looked at them. They seemed to function like most rimfires. That being rimfire has its ammo issues and sometimes a change in ammo fixes problems. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 5:40:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Serious question. Did ceiner design these kits? I ask because most other makers seem to use the same design. ETA: Asking about ar/m kits. he had the patents around which all 22lr conversions were built; this is why the market exploded in the last few years, as Ceiner's patents expired. Has he became an asshole only recently when his designs were taken and now gets 50 phone calls a day from people who can barely figure out how to load a mag yet say how shitty of a product his product is compaired to the whore brands now making them because they don't work in xyz shitty rifle? I don't know about his personal issues but have seen his conversions for years just never really looked at them. They seemed to function like most rimfires. That being rimfire has its ammo issues and sometimes a change in ammo fixes problems. Oh really Met him back in 89 & saw him again at KC in 95 ! One thing you can always count on from JC was him being a asshole! You trolll much? |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:01:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Serious question. Did ceiner design these kits? I ask because most other makers seem to use the same design. ETA: Asking about ar/m kits. he had the patents around which all 22lr conversions were built; this is why the market exploded in the last few years, as Ceiner's patents expired. Has he became an asshole only recently when his designs were taken and now gets 50 phone calls a day from people who can barely figure out how to load a mag yet say how shitty of a product his product is compaired to the whore brands now making them because they don't work in xyz shitty rifle? I don't know about his personal issues but have seen his conversions for years just never really looked at them. They seemed to function like most rimfires. That being rimfire has its ammo issues and sometimes a change in ammo fixes problems. He's been an asshole for decades. The issue has never been the users of his products and or "whore brands" who make something similar that actually works or support their products properly. You should really stick to stuff you know something about. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:12:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
People always said he was an asshole, but I never heard he was a crook. I like his products and admire that he was kind of a trailblazer in the field. +1 He did alot for the AR-15 industry. I have one of his conversions, and it still runs like a bat out of hell. His design is undoubtedly the best. (Thank you CMMG, for making his design even better  )
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:21:50 AM EDT
[#6]
I get up in the morning and read this thread because it makes me SMILE. It should be stickied for all time!!!!
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:44:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Serious question. Did ceiner design these kits? I ask because most other makers seem to use the same design. ETA: Asking about ar/m kits. he had the patents around which all 22lr conversions were built; this is why the market exploded in the last few years, as Ceiner's patents expired. Has he became an asshole only recently when his designs were taken and now gets 50 phone calls a day from people who can barely figure out how to load a mag yet say how shitty of a product his product is compaired to the whore brands now making them because they don't work in xyz shitty rifle? I don't know about his personal issues but have seen his conversions for years just never really looked at them. They seemed to function like most rimfires. That being rimfire has its ammo issues and sometimes a change in ammo fixes problems. He's been an asshole for decades. The issue has never been the users of his products and or "whore brands" who make something similar that actually works or support their products properly. You should really stick to stuff you know something about. Maybe i should but if you don't ask you will not know. Never talked to the guy or personaly have any of his products. VLODPG, not often but sometimes. Not trolling now though. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 7:58:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Whore brands???
Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 8:23:00 AM EDT
[#9]
The design is not JAC's, it's Max Atchisson's. Ciener licensed the patent exclusively and built his business on that and variations for other firearms.
Ciener has mostly adapted and evolved other people's work. The only patent I could find that he's personally obtained is for the magazine floorplate of his 1911 conversions. (5461811) His beltfeds are copies of the Armalite design of the 50s, as adapted by Colt for the 5.56 in the 60s. Nothing wrong with his products or his machine work, just his attitude and business practices. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 8:29:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 8:41:49 AM EDT
[#11]
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 8:54:09 AM EDT
[#12]
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. I don't have a conversion so no. I have been a customer of a company that sells conversions and they will not see another penny from me. I'm satisfied with the product but not with how they conduct business. I won't be missed by them. I asked a question and got an answer. Someone else elaborated on my question. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 10:37:01 AM EDT
[#13]
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. I don't have a conversion so no. I have been a customer of a company that sells conversions and they will not see another penny from me. I'm satisfied with the product but not with how they conduct business. I won't be missed by them. I asked a question and got an answer. Someone else elaborated on my question. And what company is this? Care to share your experience? |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 11:15:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Total ass at Knob Creek. Dressed like a damn pirate too. Every fall and spring this guys dresses that way. Why do so many there try to buddy up with this guy?? I have never spoken to the man, and now I am glad I have never tried. I had no idea he was such a douchebag. Thank you ARFCOM for the heads up! |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 12:39:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? I bet he pleads to a misdemeanor, and it's business as usual. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 3:03:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Theft doesn't usually get high bonds, especially not for somebody established in the community. In addition to the limited risk a thief presents to the community (when compared to people accused of violent crimes), being out on bail gives a defendant a chance to come up with some money for restitution. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 5:39:59 PM EDT
[#17]
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He looks a little like a douchier version of Will Hayden. Not by a longshot . You can poke fun at Will , and he has his moments I'm sure ( scripted or not ) , but JAC is a true to the bone cocksucker extraordinaire . The shit he asks of people in his employ really make you go  , and then seriously contemplate the idea of strangling him.
Back in the 90's , it was hard to find a machinist in Brevard county that , if they hadnt worked there themselves , knew two or three that had . And they ALL had stories to tell . He ran that company like a sweatshop , belittled and insulted his employes constantly , and didnt want to pay shit for wages . His condescending attitude was the most abrasive of any boss I've ever had by a longshot. Fuck that douche and his entire company .  Not making fun of Will at all, just commenting that I see a slight resemblance in the face(and that JAC has one of those douchebag faces, but maybe that's just the fact that it's a mugshot). Maybe it's just that both guys have that "fleshy" looking face with JAC's cheeks being slightly sunken like all his side teeth are gone. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 5:42:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? At one time(maybe even still) didn't he have 4 miniguns on a quad mount? |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:01:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? At one time(maybe even still) didn't he have 4 miniguns on a quad mount? Holy shit (if true) |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:10:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I bet he pleads to a misdemeanor, and it's business as usual. Depends on how many counts he's charged with. If there's clearly a longstanding history of fraud, he's in deep doodoo. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:22:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Here's the extent of my conversation with him: "hi, I'd like to order a spare firing pin for my kit" "buy a second kit and disassemble it" <click> You're kidding, right? no I'm not. I sat with my phone in hand for about a minute debating if I should call back and see if I got someone else. Then I found my senses |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:24:44 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:34:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Might be fun to volunteer as a character witness for him.
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:55:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I've always loved the $10 charge for an update on order status. Due to the QUALITY / PERFORMANCE of our products, the UN-PRESIDENTED increase in costs of ammunition and it's unavailability,
the long preached viability of our "CIENER" .22LR Conversion Units has created such demand that WE ARE SWAMPED with orders! Please to understand that checking the status of your order detracts valuable resources from filling orders ahead of you, thereby slowing shipment of your order. If you can not understand and appreciate this then MAIL your inquiry. You MUST include: 1) FULL name and address w/ zip code the order was placed under 2) STAMPED self addressed envelope 3) USPS Money Order for $10.00 to cover the research expense SORRY, but any other form of inquiry can not be addressed. After reading this, who in their right mind would order anything from this asshole? |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:57:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've always loved the $10 charge for an update on order status. Due to the QUALITY / PERFORMANCE of our products, the UN-PRESIDENTED increase in costs of ammunition and it's unavailability,
the long preached viability of our "CIENER" .22LR Conversion Units has created such demand that WE ARE SWAMPED with orders! Please to understand that checking the status of your order detracts valuable resources from filling orders ahead of you, thereby slowing shipment of your order. If you can not understand and appreciate this then MAIL your inquiry. You MUST include: 1) FULL name and address w/ zip code the order was placed under 2) STAMPED self addressed envelope 3) USPS Money Order for $10.00 to cover the research expense SORRY, but any other form of inquiry can not be addressed. After reading this, who in their right mind would order anything from this asshole? the question is, who would order again. Like others have said, when it was checks by mail and ads in print magazines, it took a while for word to get out about bad apples. |
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Posted: 11/5/2011 6:59:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
karma is never coma. Unless you have troubles pronouncing the "K" sound... 
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Posted: 11/5/2011 7:48:08 PM EDT
[#27]
What other brands of mags work for the Ceiner AR conversions?
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Posted: 11/5/2011 9:54:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
What other brands of mags work for the Ceiner AR conversions? I bought my conversion off the EE. That said,  Black Dog Machine's mags work great in mine. They're a sponsor here.
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Posted: 11/5/2011 9:57:14 PM EDT
[#29]
I was going to get a kit from his site. Ended up going to Brownells I believe as I was getting other stuff. Got the kit for my 1911. It didn't work. Swapped it for another. Piece of shit still didn't work. Returned it. Brownells did me good but thank goodness I didn't order direct. After doing a search on JAC is when I learned about all this shit and it had made me glad I went through a third party.
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Posted: 11/6/2011 12:08:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? At one time(maybe even still) didn't he have 4 miniguns on a quad mount? Not that I've ever seen. You may be thinking of Neil Smith's old triple mini setup. |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 4:41:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? At one time(maybe even still) didn't he have 4 miniguns on a quad mount? Not that I've ever seen. You may be thinking of Neil Smith's old triple mini setup. Oh. Thought someone here said he had a quad mount a few years ago. Guess not. |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 4:43:21 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
What other brands of mags work for the Ceiner AR conversions? I think just Ciener, CMMG and Black Dog.(Unless Spikes came out with their own magazine too) |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 5:26:19 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Whore brands??? Have you ever even been a customer of CMMG, let alone tried one of their conversions? If anyone is a whore it is Ciener, in more ways than one now that he's going to the pokey. His bond was $2K - I seriously doubt he'll see any jail time. Felony puts him out of business - wonder what happens to all his toys? At one time(maybe even still) didn't he have 4 miniguns on a quad mount? Not that I've ever seen. You may be thinking of Neil Smith's old triple mini setup. Oh. Thought someone here said he had a quad mount a few years ago. Guess not. Dis Ciener make that triple set-up for Smith ? I could have sworn Ciener had a multi-set-up of his own . . . . 
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Posted: 11/6/2011 5:43:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Dis Ciener make that triple set-up for Smith ? I could have sworn Ciener had a multi-set-up of his own . . . .
I have heard that Ciener had one as well. IIRC, it tipped over and injured a younger child too. Tried looking up more info, but haven't found anytihng yet. |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 5:54:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Hopefully they'll get Dana Reed next... Who is that? |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 6:43:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully they'll get Dana Reed next... Who is that? Google "Dana Reed Firearms". |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 9:02:09 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've always loved the $10 charge for an update on order status. Due to the QUALITY / PERFORMANCE of our products, the UN-PRESIDENTED increase in costs of ammunition and it's unavailability,
the long preached viability of our "CIENER" .22LR Conversion Units has created such demand that WE ARE SWAMPED with orders! Please to understand that checking the status of your order detracts valuable resources from filling orders ahead of you, thereby slowing shipment of your order. If you can not understand and appreciate this then MAIL your inquiry. You MUST include: 1) FULL name and address w/ zip code the order was placed under 2) STAMPED self addressed envelope 3) USPS Money Order for $10.00 to cover the research expense SORRY, but any other form of inquiry can not be addressed. After reading this, who in their right mind would order anything from this asshole? the question is, who would order again. Like others have said, when it was checks by mail and ads in print magazines, it took a while for word to get out about bad apples. Plus he was VERY much like Bailey in threatening Legal Action against anyone who outed his shitty practices |
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Posted: 11/6/2011 9:25:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully they'll get Dana Reed next... Who is that? Google "Dana Reed Firearms". Wow THAT guy seems like a mix of Ceiner and Toad all in one..Hell he almost makes MELVIN look legit.
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Posted: 11/6/2011 10:04:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
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Dis Ciener make that triple set-up for Smith ? I could have sworn Ciener had a multi-set-up of his own . . . .
I have heard that Ciener had one as well. IIRC, it tipped over and injured a younger child too. Tried looking up more info, but haven't found anytihng yet. I heard that that was a fatal incident at knob creek a long time ago. That being said I now remember seeing him at kcr and not knowing who he was. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 11:18:17 AM EDT
[#40]
I don't care about him, but I hope his transferables don't end up in Fed's hands.
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Posted: 11/7/2011 11:48:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What other brands of mags work for the Ceiner AR conversions? I bought my conversion off the EE. That said, Black Dog Machine's mags work great in mine. They're a sponsor here.
I can confirm. BDM Mags work great in my Ciener kit. The only problem I've ever had with them is that they empty too quickly. 
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Posted: 11/7/2011 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: I've always loved the $10 charge for an update on order status. Due to the QUALITY / PERFORMANCE of our products, the UN-PRESIDENTED increase in costs of ammunition and it's unavailability, the long preached viability of our "CIENER" .22LR Conversion Units has created such demand that WE ARE SWAMPED with orders! Please to understand that checking the status of your order detracts valuable resources from filling orders ahead of you, thereby slowing shipment of your order. If you can not understand and appreciate this then MAIL your inquiry. You MUST include: 1) FULL name and address w/ zip code the order was placed under 2) STAMPED self addressed envelope 3) USPS Money Order for $10.00 to cover the research expense SORRY, but any other form of inquiry can not be addressed. Is that a direct copy/paste? Because he spelled unprecedented wrong. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 11:56:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: I've always loved the $10 charge for an update on order status. Due to the QUALITY / PERFORMANCE of our products, the UN-PRESIDENTED increase in costs of ammunition and it's unavailability, the long preached viability of our "CIENER" .22LR Conversion Units has created such demand that WE ARE SWAMPED with orders! Please to understand that checking the status of your order detracts valuable resources from filling orders ahead of you, thereby slowing shipment of your order. If you can not understand and appreciate this then MAIL your inquiry. You MUST include: 1) FULL name and address w/ zip code the order was placed under 2) STAMPED self addressed envelope 3) USPS Money Order for $10.00 to cover the research expense SORRY, but any other form of inquiry can not be addressed. Is that a direct copy/paste? Yes- yes it is Because he spelled unprecedented wrong. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 2:59:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I don't care about him, but I hope his transferables don't end up in Fed's hands. If he's smart he will start transferring them before he is convicted. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 3:00:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dis Ciener make that triple set-up for Smith ? I could have sworn Ciener had a multi-set-up of his own . . . . I have heard that Ciener had one as well. IIRC, it tipped over and injured a younger child too. Tried looking up more info, but haven't found anytihng yet. I heard that that was a fatal incident at knob creek a long time ago. That being said I now remember seeing him at kcr and not knowing who he was. Not JAC's gun(s) - I was there when it happened. The triple set-up belonged to Neil Smith and the accident occurred during the 1995 Fall KCR shoot. The young lady killed was 13 year old Rachel Bigley. She was firing Neil's (her fathers friend) triple Miniguns when guns shifted hard making the entire setup stand up and fall over backwards. The corner of the mount struck her in the forehead killing her instantly. Rounds from the overturned guns went through the roof covering the line as a whole lot of people hit the deck. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 4:41:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: I don't care about him, but I hope his transferables don't end up in Fed's hands. If he's smart he will start transferring them before he is convicted. You can rest assured that he won't be convicted of anything. He will make good on what & who he owes, charges will be dropped and life will go on. My guess is Midway or Brownells or someone with a big prepaid order was way over due on delivery and when pressed for a refund, they got the 20% restocking line of crap. Worst case a misdemeanor & restitution and that's only if he's up against someone who is a bigger a-hole than him. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 4:46:42 PM EDT
[#47]
This sounds like civil suit stuff, or a situation where someone in LE finally had enough. Not everyone gets to sic the police on a bad businessman, and it has to be extremely serious for LE to make a civil issue a criminal matter.
I'm sure he deserves it, but it's quite odd. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 4:51:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Meh, I bought a kit years ago from a 3rd party vendor. Happy with it. Hate the mags, they're hard to load.
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Posted: 11/7/2011 5:17:44 PM EDT
[#49]
has anyone ordered any thing in the last few days?
or checked on an order status? i have never directly ordered any thing from him always stocking dealer or on the EE. |
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Posted: 11/7/2011 5:28:56 PM EDT
[#50]
 Haha looks like Sammy the Bull's twin brother kinda.  |
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