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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:17:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever hear of quotes? I'll explain. If I put "sizeable number" like that in my post, I'd be quoting you. But I didn't. Since it's so confusing for you, I'll put it in other terms you might understand. Do you claim 1-2% of Palestinians is a decent percentage? When is 1-2% of anything a "decent percentage"? (There are those quotations I was telling you about above) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I didn't say sizable in my original post. I said a decent number. My original post below: For example, Jews made up 1.4% of the US population in 2001. That's a decent percentage.  Since it's so confusing for you, I'll put it in other terms you might understand. Do you claim 1-2% of Palestinians is a decent percentage? When is 1-2% of anything a "decent percentage"? (There are those quotations I was telling you about above) 
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:17:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Problem is, Israel will never negotiate in good faith, and the Palis know it. They aren't willing to make any concessions because the status quo benefits Israel. They can continue to expand settlements, changing the facts on the ground, without ever putting anything of value on the table. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:19:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and at one time there was no such thing as Americans, so at what point do we recognize the Palestinians? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:19:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you ever seen how big Arab families are? 8, 9, 10 kids in a family is very common. Israelis are like most western countries, they usually only have a couple of kids, at least outside of the settler movement (who breed like rabbits). The ultra orthodox Jews do have 8, 9 or 10 kids though. Here's a question for you, what do you think the ultra orthodox opinion on Zionism is? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:20:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked with NATO, Israel doesn't need their help. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This was published a few hours ago - Nato Chief Jens Stoltenberg tells Der Spiegel that NATO will not come go Israel's aid if Iran attacks them: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/02/nato-not-aid-israel-iran/666078002/ EU loves them some cultural enrichment |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:21:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The part you miss is that Israel needs to give up nothing. They have already won. The facts on the ground is that all of the West Bank is annexed. It is under full Israeli control. When you visit the region to begin to understand why as well. The West Bank is strategic. It moves the border from Israel from a line in some sand dunes back to the Dead Sea and the mountains on the other side. It was striking when I made the drive through the West Bank. It became completely clear. The only reason Israel would give up anything would be to secure a full peace, but the reality is, like you said, they don't have to. The status quo is not terrible for them. The only people really hurt by the status quo is the Palestinians. They have everything to gain from here as their current situation is shit, but they refuse to give up on unreasonable demands. The Israelis are limited by the politics in their own lands. There is a staunch group that believes in expansion as a core belief. You can compare it to the anti-abortion groups in the US. Nothing can possibly convince them otherwise and they form a significant voting block. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Problem is, Israel will never negotiate in good faith, and the Palis know it. They aren't willing to make any concessions because the status quo benefits Israel. They can continue to expand settlements, changing the facts on the ground, without ever putting anything of value on the table. The only reason Israel would give up anything would be to secure a full peace, but the reality is, like you said, they don't have to. The status quo is not terrible for them. The only people really hurt by the status quo is the Palestinians. They have everything to gain from here as their current situation is shit, but they refuse to give up on unreasonable demands. The Israelis are limited by the politics in their own lands. There is a staunch group that believes in expansion as a core belief. You can compare it to the anti-abortion groups in the US. Nothing can possibly convince them otherwise and they form a significant voting block. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:23:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don’t negotiate with thieves trying to steal your shit. You just protect your shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Problem is, Israel will never negotiate in good faith, and the Palis know it. They aren't willing to make any concessions because the status quo benefits Israel. They can continue to expand settlements, changing the facts on the ground, without ever putting anything of value on the table. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:23:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which means Israel will never have peace. The Palestinians are fine with that trade off. They are used to their suffering. They are happy to wait for Israel to collapse / become an apartheid state under the weight of its demographics. Those chickens will come home to roost eventually, that is the motivation/pressure that Israel faces to come to a 2 state solution. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:24:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Israel kicked 700,000 Palis off their land to form the state of Israel. Those are Israeli figures. They stole someone else's shit, which how we are where we are today. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:24:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those are the families living in abject poverty. The muslims living in Israel don't breed like that (the Bedouins do but they are apolitical for the most part). The ultra orthodox Jews do have 8, 9 or 10 kids though. Here's a question for you, what do you think the ultra orthodox opinion on Zionism is? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Have you ever seen how big Arab families are? 8, 9, 10 kids in a family is very common. Israelis are like most western countries, they usually only have a couple of kids, at least outside of the settler movement (who breed like rabbits). The ultra orthodox Jews do have 8, 9 or 10 kids though. Here's a question for you, what do you think the ultra orthodox opinion on Zionism is? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:26:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Israel kicked 700,000 Palis off their land to form the state of Israel. Those are Israeli figures. They stole someone else's shit, which how we are where we are today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Problem is, Israel will never negotiate in good faith, and the Palis know it. They aren't willing to make any concessions because the status quo benefits Israel. They can continue to expand settlements, changing the facts on the ground, without ever putting anything of value on the table. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:26:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arabs should have fought harder. ZFG. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Israel kicked 700,000 Palis off their land to form the state of Israel. Those are Israeli figures. They stole someone else's shit, which how we are where we are today. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:28:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jews, according to 2001 statistics, accounted for 1.4% of the US population. I'd say that's a decent percentage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I didn't say sizable in my original post. I said a decent number. My original post below: For example, Jews made up 1.4% of the US population in 2001. That's a decent percentage. Since it's so confusing for you, I'll put it in other terms you might understand. Do you claim 1-2% of Palestinians is a decent percentage? When is 1-2% of anything a "decent percentage"? (There are those quotations I was telling you about above) So I'll take it since you believe 1.4% is a decent percentage in the US, you must also believe that 1-2% Palestinians is a decent percentage. I certainly hope for the sake of whoever employs you that you don't have to do math for work because your math skills are very poor. Just like your understanding of events in the Middle East. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:28:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which means Israel will never have peace. The Palestinians are fine with that trade off. They are used to their suffering. They are happy to wait for Israel to collapse / become an apartheid state under the weight of its demographics. Those chickens will come home to roost eventually, that is the motivation/pressure that Israel faces to come to a 2 state solution. Jews and others: 20.5 births/1,000 populationMuslims: 24.6 births/1,000 population Christians: 14.4 births/1,000 population Here's a graph I made from the other Wiki status on %s. 
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:28:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give your house to a native American or youre a hypocrite Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Problem is, Israel will never negotiate in good faith, and the Palis know it. They aren't willing to make any concessions because the status quo benefits Israel. They can continue to expand settlements, changing the facts on the ground, without ever putting anything of value on the table. If they want my 750 sq ft apt, they can come knock on my door. 
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:29:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give your house to a native American or youre a hypocrite Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Problem is, Israel will never negotiate in good faith, and the Palis know it. They aren't willing to make any concessions because the status quo benefits Israel. They can continue to expand settlements, changing the facts on the ground, without ever putting anything of value on the table. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:29:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then don't act like Israel is just defending their land. They stole the shit. Lol. Context matters. The Palis have legitimate grievances. Israel is just defending their land. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:30:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which has no relevance to this discussion. You don't even get any points for trying. So I'll take it since you believe 1.4% is a decent percentage in the US, you must also believe that 1-2% Palestinians is a decent percentage. I certainly hope for the sake of whoever employs you that you don't have to do math for work because your math skills are very poor. Just like your understanding of events in the Middle East. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I didn't say sizable in my original post. I said a decent number. My original post below: For example, Jews made up 1.4% of the US population in 2001. That's a decent percentage. Since it's so confusing for you, I'll put it in other terms you might understand. Do you claim 1-2% of Palestinians is a decent percentage? When is 1-2% of anything a "decent percentage"? (There are those quotations I was telling you about above) So I'll take it since you believe 1.4% is a decent percentage in the US, you must also believe that 1-2% Palestinians is a decent percentage. I certainly hope for the sake of whoever employs you that you don't have to do math for work because your math skills are very poor. Just like your understanding of events in the Middle East.
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:33:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don’t even have a legitimate nation, let alone legitimate grievances. Israel is just defending their land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Then don't act like Israel is just defending their land. They stole the shit. Lol. Context matters. The Palis have legitimate grievances. Israel is just defending their land. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:34:23 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:34:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty sure I make much more money than you, and my math does just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I didn't say sizable in my original post. I said a decent number. My original post below: For example, Jews made up 1.4% of the US population in 2001. That's a decent percentage. Since it's so confusing for you, I'll put it in other terms you might understand. Do you claim 1-2% of Palestinians is a decent percentage? When is 1-2% of anything a "decent percentage"? (There are those quotations I was telling you about above) So I'll take it since you believe 1.4% is a decent percentage in the US, you must also believe that 1-2% Palestinians is a decent percentage. I certainly hope for the sake of whoever employs you that you don't have to do math for work because your math skills are very poor. Just like your understanding of events in the Middle East. 
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:35:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Israel is the aggressor. They stole someone else's house and bulldozed it to the ground to form their luxury condominiums. Everything Israel receives is a result of that original sin. The facts on the ground are that Israel controls the territory and manages it well. It will never be walked backed. They have won. Just like Crimea is now Russian. That will not change. The Palestinians can choose to suffer or eat a little humble pie and improve the lot for their kids. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:37:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That can be your belief. I won't directly challenge that. It doesn't matter though. The facts on the ground are that Israel controls the territory and manages it well. It will never be walked backed. They have won. Just like Crimea is now Russian. That will not change. The Palestinians can choose to suffer or eat a little humble pie and improve the lot for their kids. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Israel is the aggressor. They stole someone else's house and bulldozed it to the ground to form their luxury condominiums. Everything Israel receives is a result of that original sin. The facts on the ground are that Israel controls the territory and manages it well. It will never be walked backed. They have won. Just like Crimea is now Russian. That will not change. The Palestinians can choose to suffer or eat a little humble pie and improve the lot for their kids. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:39:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Israel is the aggressor. They stole someone else's house and bulldozed it to the ground to form their luxury condominiums. Everything Israel receives is a result of that original sin. 
Nations are for winners |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:39:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facts on the ground can always change, in surprising ways. FYI, I'm not jewish by religion or heritage. I just work there as an American in a nonpolitical situation. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:41:37 PM EDT
[#26]
When I was over in Israel in 2012, we were down near Gaza.
Went to an Israeli police station that had all of the expended rockets sent from Gaza into Israel. Racks and racks of them. One of the POs came over and asked me what I thought. "They look like light poles." I said. He nodded, "We (Israel) spent a couple million dollars giving Gaza electricity and new lights, and within a month they took them all down, converted the light poles to rockets, and shot them back at us." I told him, "Well fuck them, then, let them be in the dark." |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:41:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn man you really do not like Jewish people. The Iranians could fully start the the full-on proxy war. The facts on the ground are that the US would enter and no middle eastern country could meaningfully take the territory with Israel defending and US backing it. FYI, I'm not jewish by religion or heritage. I just work there as an American in a nonpolitical situation. To the point of calling Israeli pilots flying sorties against Iranians and their proxies cowards. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:43:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arabs should have fought harder. ZFG. If Israel was actually kicking arabs out, there wouldn't be 1 million arabs in israel. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:43:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Israel is the aggressor. They stole someone else's house and bulldozed it to the ground to form their luxury condominiums. Everything Israel receives is a result of that original sin. 
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:44:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he doesn't. To the point of calling Israeli pilots flying sorties against Iranians and their proxies cowards. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:45:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the vast majority of arabs who left israel in 1948 left of their own volition. Those who stayed, kept their property. If Israel was actually kicking arabs out, there wouldn't be 1 million arabs in israel. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:45:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he doesn't. To the point of calling Israeli pilots flying sorties against Iranians and their proxies cowards. there are more arabs in israel than there are jews in the entire muslim world. what does that tell you? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:46:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then don't act like Israel is just defending their land. They stole the shit. Lol. Context matters. The Palis have legitimate grievances. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Israel kicked 700,000 Palis off their land to form the state of Israel. Those are Israeli figures. They stole someone else's shit, which how we are where we are today. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:46:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then don't act like Israel is just defending their land. They stole the shit. Lol. Context matters. The Palis have legitimate grievances. You mess with the bull you get the horns. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:46:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really highlights the irrational hatred the muslim world has for jews. To the point where he says its the jews fault for all their problems while at the same time showing how its the muslims who are incapable of accepting a single jew left alive. there are more arabs in israel than there are jews in the entire muslim world. what does that tell you? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:48:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there are more arabs in israel than there are jews in the entire muslim world. what does that tell you? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:49:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lies all lies. Jewish lies. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:49:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Israeli phrase of the day is: “overwhelmingly asymmetrical retaliatory strike” |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:50:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn man you really do not like Jewish people. The Iranians could fully start the the full-on proxy war. The facts on the ground are that the US would enter and no middle eastern country could meaningfully take the territory with Israel defending and US backing it. FYI, I'm not jewish by religion or heritage. I just work there as an American in a nonpolitical situation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Facts on the ground can always change, in surprising ways. FYI, I'm not jewish by religion or heritage. I just work there as an American in a nonpolitical situation. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:51:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that universally true? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:51:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he doesn't. To the point of calling Israeli pilots flying sorties against Iranians and their proxies cowards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Damn man you really do not like Jewish people. The Iranians could fully start the the full-on proxy war. The facts on the ground are that the US would enter and no middle eastern country could meaningfully take the territory with Israel defending and US backing it. FYI, I'm not jewish by religion or heritage. I just work there as an American in a nonpolitical situation. To the point of calling Israeli pilots flying sorties against Iranians and their proxies cowards. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:53:03 PM EDT
[#42]
The Arabs will never give up.
It took them a couple of centuries to drive out European land grabbers the last go round....and they are well aware of their history. The last few decades have seen the Persians and Turks go from de facto allies of Israel to now become implacable enemies. Disastrous developments. If the Shah of Egypt falls, hold onto your yarmulke. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:53:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Palestinians got hosed because the Germans were psychopaths. Israel wants a peaceful Israel. These so-called “Palestinians” want nothing but dead Jews. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:54:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and at one time there was no such thing as Americans, so at what point do we recognize the Palestinians? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well, there’s no such thing as Palestinians, so... |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:54:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that universally true? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Israel kicked 700,000 Palis off their land to form the state of Israel. Those are Israeli figures. They stole someone else's shit, which how we are where we are today. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:55:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't tell if serious or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Lies all lies. Jewish lies. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:56:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has nothing to do with Jews. I get along with Jews with no problems here in the states. The Palestinians got hosed because the Germans were psychopaths. It's fucked up. I had no more emotional investment in the conflict beyond that. I think it is retarded that the Mullahs in Iran give anything more than moral support to the Palestinian cause. They are making Arab problems their own, and putting the plight of the Palis above their own national interests. But Mullahs gonna Mullah. Look, I don't care about religion. The reality is the Israelis control the area. It is managed very successfully. There is a strong economy that works with the wider world community in a secular fashion. The Palestinians have lost. Their allies, or what they believed to be their allies, played (and continue playing) them for fools and using them as pawns. Their only winning move is to reject Hamas and negotiate without conditions. Their only other options are continuing suffering for another 100 years or wait for an all out war in which the final result will likely be the full destruction of their people. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:57:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given your past comments, I don't take what you just said seriously. Look, I don't care about religion. The reality is the Israelis control the area. It is managed very successfully. There is a strong economy that works with the wider world community in a secular fashion. The Palestinians have lost. Their allies, or what they believed to be their allies, played (and continue playing) them for fools and using them as pawns. Their only winning move is to reject Hamas and negotiate without conditions. Their only other options are continuing suffering for another 100 years or wait for an all out war in which the final result will likely be the fully destruction of their people. which is why from 1948-1967 there wasn't a palistinian state. PLO was formed in 1964 (in Moscow no less). the concept of a palistinian identity is a fiction. |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:57:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how did arabs end up in israel? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is that universally true? |
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Posted: 6/2/2018 2:57:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then don't act like Israel is just defending their land. They stole the shit. Lol. Context matters. The Palis have legitimate grievances. 
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