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Posted: 4/7/2022 10:49:45 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carried these back in the day. Perfectly legal and within department policy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25628/1577.JPG My mom’s good friend was retired Texas DPS. He carried very similar equipment. After retirement, he worked for a while as a bailiff and helped serve warrants with the constable. They made him leave his leather/lead-shot “persuader” and “hickory stick” at home. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 10:52:14 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gonna share the story of my first arrest, at age 19....... Was shooting (while trespassing) at a long abandoned country club, in the boonies of upstate NY (Voorheesville if you know the region). Podunk shitty little town outside the Albany region, and they didn't like college kids. Couple of local deputies rolled up, started asking questions, and asked if they could search my car. (1985-86, long before arf existed, and I had no idea about consent, and searches) so I said, yeah, got nothing to hide. Deputy shithead finds a wooden stick all wrapped up with a huge ball of duct tape on the end, it looked like a 5 pound q-tip. I made it to pound the dent out of the quarter-panel from the inside of the trunk, and there it stayed. He grabs it, and gets right up in my face, holding it like he's gonna smash me with it tennis serve style, and screams, "boy's got a n***er-beater here". Now I'm not exactly sure why I chose that particular moment to be a wise-ass, but my response was, "there's nothing racial about that thing", and that's when he arrested me.  I learned some valuable lessons that day."The nail that sticks out gets hammered"
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Posted: 4/7/2022 10:53:15 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those interested, here's most of the list: But no butterflyknives... (aka bali song). interesting/ |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 10:56:17 AM EST
[#4]
I killed a dog with a sap.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 11:00:54 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So there I was... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would love explaining to the cops why I used throwing stars in self defense. So there I was... Minding my own damned business... |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 11:04:52 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saps need a decent amount of weight to be useful. People, including me have tried to make them with a silver ounce coin or two, it is just to light. I have one with $20 of quarters in one. Its plenty heavy. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 11:34:19 AM EST
[#7]
I've got my great grandfather's brass knuckles. Given enough time I could demolish a block wall with them. They would easily Crack a skull.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 11:45:00 AM EST
[#8]
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Posted: 4/7/2022 11:56:24 AM EST
[#9]
I carried one of the Boston Leather Saps at night to get the mail from the community mail box.
My neighbors ex con son wanted to fight most of their neighbors and I figured I’d most likely have problems during that time. If you practice on a punching bag or dummy you can get wicked fast with one. They won’t know what hit them. If it was going to come to blows, I was going to make sure to give him something to remember. The cameras in our community are so poor that a slap or a sap are probably indistinguishable. I would have just got rid of it before someone showed up. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 12:27:25 PM EST
[#10]
Fuggit, I want one now. Who makes a good sap?
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Posted: 4/7/2022 12:36:26 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the fox 599 karambit is the single most scary/lethal knife ive ever worked with. for the regular person just picking it up it seems kinda useless but once you learn how to manipulate it and get a little training with it you realize the capability of it and how wicked it can be. either buy a training version to go with it or make a copy of it out of wood (fun project). https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41oD8kcS3PL._AC_SL1024_.jpg Karambits are my favorite kinds of knives. I have a custom EDC fixed blade that's a double-edged hybrid Karambit-Pikal ring-handled ripper from an absolute artist in South Africa. I'm currently waiting to get my NAA Pug back from a shop in AZ that is in the process of converting it into a modern interpretation of the 1800s gangster Knuckleguns. Technically brass knuckles are illegal here in CO, but if you attach them to a gun they suddenly become a legal 'enclosed knuckle guard'. Ain't laws just grand? |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 12:43:19 PM EST
[#12]
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Posted: 4/7/2022 12:50:35 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuggit, I want one now. Who makes a good sap? Boston Leather..The Texan 4ply Can be purchased on Amazon also. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 12:54:51 PM EST
[#14]
Quoted: I've represented criminals who were caught with these or seen a few that were either possessed legally by police or out of NY or were just arguably illegal (auto knives are legal here while hunting and fishing). But no one ever admitted to using any of this stuff in a fight. Saps were prohibited by department policy before my time. I know in old Batman comics everyone seemed to have them but still got their asses beat (course that's true of Thompsons) Brass knuckles seem like you could break your fingers if you strike something hard like a skull (besides from also killing someone). Brass knuckles have seen to have made a come back as a fancy knife maker novelty. They are also making a come back as an illegal weapon bought off the internet from China or eBay, some are actually plastic. Auto knives seem to have a reputation here as fragile and no faster than wave or flipped knives. I'm still considering a Boker AK they seem to have an okay reputation and aren't $ 400. I realize I'm lumping together out the front and regular auto opening knives. I've seen saps and handled them but don't know anyone who has clobbered someone with one. It seems like they were really talked up by the prior generation of police Officers Even where legal or sort of legal they also seem like "you got some 'splainin' to do Lucy" items, particularly if you poke or wallop someone with one @Aimless I could not find a "sap" mentioned in the penal code. Other stuff, yes. Blackjack, billy club, ninja stars, sand club, brass knuckles, daggers - yes. Saps - no. I would wager to say that a sap is legal in NYS. But I am not a lawyer. Your opinion, counsel? |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:00:42 PM EST
[#15]
These threads always cost money.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:03:46 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gonna share the story of my first arrest, at age 19....... Was shooting (while trespassing) at a long abandoned country club, in the boonies of upstate NY (Voorheesville if you know the region). Podunk shitty little town outside the Albany region, and they didn't like college kids. Couple of local deputies rolled up, started asking questions, and asked if they could search my car. (1985-86, long before arf existed, and I had no idea about consent, and searches) so I said, yeah, got nothing to hide. Deputy shithead finds a wooden stick all wrapped up with a huge ball of duct tape on the end, it looked like a 5 pound q-tip. I made it to pound the dent out of the quarter-panel from the inside of the trunk, and there it stayed. He grabs it, and gets right up in my face, holding it like he's gonna smash me with it tennis serve style, and screams, "boy's got a n***er-beater here". Now I'm not exactly sure why I chose that particular moment to be a wise-ass, but my response was, "there's nothing racial about that thing", and that's when he arrested me. I learned some valuable lessons that day.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My grandfather was Chief of police in the next town over. Was a cop from the 50's to late 70's. He spoke fondly of his blackjack which he called a name I won't mention here. A “whitey whacker”? Gonna share the story of my first arrest, at age 19....... Was shooting (while trespassing) at a long abandoned country club, in the boonies of upstate NY (Voorheesville if you know the region). Podunk shitty little town outside the Albany region, and they didn't like college kids. Couple of local deputies rolled up, started asking questions, and asked if they could search my car. (1985-86, long before arf existed, and I had no idea about consent, and searches) so I said, yeah, got nothing to hide. Deputy shithead finds a wooden stick all wrapped up with a huge ball of duct tape on the end, it looked like a 5 pound q-tip. I made it to pound the dent out of the quarter-panel from the inside of the trunk, and there it stayed. He grabs it, and gets right up in my face, holding it like he's gonna smash me with it tennis serve style, and screams, "boy's got a n***er-beater here". Now I'm not exactly sure why I chose that particular moment to be a wise-ass, but my response was, "there's nothing racial about that thing", and that's when he arrested me. I learned some valuable lessons that day.Substitute "knocker" for beater and thats the way I heard it. Its what a family friend called a 24" piece of aluminum core power cable he kept in his car. It was about 1.25" in diameter, covered in hard plastic. Didn't look too scary, but tapping it on your skull lightly confirmed a good swing would leave an impression. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:19:24 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Aimless I could not find a "sap" mentioned in the penal code. Other stuff, yes. Blackjack, billy club, ninja stars, sand club, brass knuckles, daggers - yes. Saps - no. I would wager to say that a sap is legal in NYS. But I am not a lawyer. Your opinion, counsel? |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:20:07 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These threads always cost money. Sorry |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:22:13 PM EST
[#19]
I have a coin purse.
Mean Gene |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:24:03 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Substitute "knocker" for beater and thats the way I heard it. Its what a family friend called a 24" piece of aluminum core power cable he kept in his car. It was about 1.25" in diameter, covered in hard plastic. Didn't look too scary, but tapping it on your skull lightly confirmed a good swing would leave an impression. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My grandfather was Chief of police in the next town over. Was a cop from the 50's to late 70's. He spoke fondly of his blackjack which he called a name I won't mention here. A “whitey whacker”? Gonna share the story of my first arrest, at age 19....... Was shooting (while trespassing) at a long abandoned country club, in the boonies of upstate NY (Voorheesville if you know the region). Podunk shitty little town outside the Albany region, and they didn't like college kids. Couple of local deputies rolled up, started asking questions, and asked if they could search my car. (1985-86, long before arf existed, and I had no idea about consent, and searches) so I said, yeah, got nothing to hide. Deputy shithead finds a wooden stick all wrapped up with a huge ball of duct tape on the end, it looked like a 5 pound q-tip. I made it to pound the dent out of the quarter-panel from the inside of the trunk, and there it stayed. He grabs it, and gets right up in my face, holding it like he's gonna smash me with it tennis serve style, and screams, "boy's got a n***er-beater here". Now I'm not exactly sure why I chose that particular moment to be a wise-ass, but my response was, "there's nothing racial about that thing", and that's when he arrested me. I learned some valuable lessons that day.Substitute "knocker" for beater and thats the way I heard it. Its what a family friend called a 24" piece of aluminum core power cable he kept in his car. It was about 1.25" in diameter, covered in hard plastic. Didn't look too scary, but tapping it on your skull lightly confirmed a good swing would leave an impression. Bingo! |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:25:27 PM EST
[#21]
Chicom Brass knuckles, auto/butterfly knives, and meth pipes with roses in them are sold at every other Korean gas station i've been to.
From an availability standpoint that's been pretty static |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:28:06 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not researched it but I suspect a judge would say a sap and black Jack are the same thing. Also there's another vague "dangerous weapon" you could be charged under. Obviously they are two different implements. Different construction and appearance. Different mechanism of injury. Perhaps saps were left off the list as they were widely employed by law enforcement at the time the statute was adopted? |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:40:40 PM EST
[#23]
I've got a sap I got from my father. It's got to be at least 70 years old. Never carried it though. If I want a non-lethal weapon a sap wouldn't be it.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 1:59:54 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve been told that with a sap, the real ones with lead, you sort of want to slap the person not full on clobber them or you can kill them. I’d like a sap, I think they are still illegal here. I read someone their horoscope with a Surefire 6Z, I used the bezel end. That motherfucker was seeing stars, bleeding, and wobbly as hell. I thought I was going to jail. I’ve always thought brass knuckles would hurt your hand if you tried to hit someone. I’ve seen too many auto knives fail, usually because the owner lets them get gunked up. A LEO friend of mine is fascinated with the things, consistently has issues, and keeps carrying the damn things! Those old bar ashtrays were great, the thick glass ones. Look up gravity knives. The well made ones outperform the spring loaded ones. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:01:03 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not researched it but I suspect a judge would say a sap and black Jack are the same thing. Also there's another vague "dangerous weapon" you could be charged under. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Aimless I could not find a "sap" mentioned in the penal code. Other stuff, yes. Blackjack, billy club, ninja stars, sand club, brass knuckles, daggers - yes. Saps - no. I would wager to say that a sap is legal in NYS. But I am not a lawyer. Your opinion, counsel? There is also slungshot. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:03:44 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is also slungshot. I found a british guy who makes stuff like a sort of black jack brass knuckles https://www.davidsonleather.com/home/saps/ |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:03:58 PM EST
[#27]
I should cast some brass knuckles with my new Devil Forge. Maybe some copper ones too if I can find some old copper pipes.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:05:59 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know what that is. I found a british guy who makes stuff like a sort of black jack brass knuckles https://www.davidsonleather.com/home/saps/ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is also slungshot. I found a british guy who makes stuff like a sort of black jack brass knuckles https://www.davidsonleather.com/home/saps/ A roll of quarters in a sock is a slungshot. ETA by this definition a sap is probably a a slungshot. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/slungshot |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:08:10 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They’re not anywhere close to three pounds. Blackjacks like the ones pictured above are more like 8 - 10 ounces. That’s more than enough to kill someone if you don’t know what you’re doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You forgot to mention a steel cosh (like a coil spring whip) Are you talking about a BlackJack, about 3 lbs of lead wrapped in leather on a spring? Saw it in a book once. Issued to European LE. They’re not anywhere close to three pounds. Blackjacks like the ones pictured above are more like 8 - 10 ounces. That’s more than enough to kill someone if you don’t know what you’re doing. Yes, avoid temple strikes where the skull is thinnest. Back of the head is best. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:13:25 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sap was also used to break the collar bone. The collar bone requires only six pounds of force to break. Very fragile. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:23:37 PM EST
[#31]
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:25:07 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some fellers call these cross knuckles. I reckon I call 'em a plastic grocery bag carrier, yup. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2048/grocery_bag_carrier_JPG-1964290.jpg Looks like a dildo for a midget. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:28:39 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carried these back in the day. Perfectly legal and within department policy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25628/1577.JPG I was hired by a town in Virginia in the early 1980s. When ordering my uniform, they asked for sizes of shirt, hat, pants, and which side for the blackjack pocket. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:30:23 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recent pa gunshow. Any color any size. Almost every table had them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462085/20211016_144324_jpg-2341101.JPG $50 for a lightning!?! Typical gun show pricing. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:31:28 PM EST
[#35]
I EDC an auto and sometimes carry brass knuckles. God bless Texas.
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:33:38 PM EST
[#36]
I have sap gloves. dont carry them
Baton. sits in box auto knives. in a drawer. always have a g 29 and syderco on me |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:33:48 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love explaining to the cops why I used throwing stars in self defense. Star. Shovel. Shut up. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:33:55 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryI bought one on eBay once and put $87 worth of quarters in it. Last time I checked there was only half a buck left in it. Damned grandkids! |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:35:43 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have sap gloves. dont carry them Baton. sits in box auto knives. in a drawer. always have a g 29 and syderco on me I carry a baton and OC when I've been drinking. Can't carry a gun here if you even just sipped a beer. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:41:52 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I carry a baton and OC when I've been drinking. Can't carry a gun here if you even just sipped a beer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have sap gloves. dont carry them Baton. sits in box auto knives. in a drawer. always have a g 29 and syderco on me I carry a baton and OC when I've been drinking. Can't carry a gun here if you even just sipped a beer. I only drink at home, alone, in the dark, the way god intended. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:42:16 PM EST
[#41]
Neat thing about Kentucky. Our deadly weapons are called out in statute. With a CCDW you could carry these concealed. But now no permit is required for ANY deadly weapon which includes firearms. Deadly weapons per statue include:
A weapon of mass destruction ANY knife other than pocket or hunting knife Billy, nightstick or club Blackjack or slapjack Nunchaku karate sticks Shuriken or death star Artificial knuckles made from metal, plastic or other hard material. That is word for word from KY statue. Nunchucks, slapjacks, and yes ninja throwing stars are good to go here in KY I love my state, don’t fuck with KY ninjas… |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:43:22 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was pretty good with those years ago We set up a piece of plywood at work back in 87-88 and threw them on the night shift. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:43:29 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a career and an era could both be summarized in one simple pic, this is it.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Carried these back in the day. Perfectly legal and within department policy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25628/1577.JPG If a career and an era could both be summarized in one simple pic, this is it. Yup. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:45:26 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/81840/091B42C8-5B52-4FF9-ADA2-263E31834D43_jpe-2340586.JPG Here are some of my blackjacks. Used for self...defense. 
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Posted: 4/7/2022 2:58:26 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recent pa gunshow. Any color any size. Almost every table had them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462085/20211016_144324_jpg-2341101.JPG |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:43:52 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is also slungshot. That's the ARF favorite guardrail nut on paracord. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:51:34 PM EST
[#47]
How many attacks have you seen on the internet where you have time to react?
When you do have a split second, how do you know intentions aren’t to kill? A guy who’s a foot taller and solid muscle can bounce your head off the concrete with 1 good punch. Personally, a gun is the 1st and only option. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:55:54 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $50 for a lightning!?! Typical gun show pricing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Recent pa gunshow. Any color any size. Almost every table had them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462085/20211016_144324_jpg-2341101.JPG $50 for a lightning!?! Typical gun show pricing. I never said they had good prices. I only go these for the jerky and and chicks walking around in yoga pants and riding boots. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:56:51 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuggit, I want one now. Who makes a good sap? assuming you can even find one. 15 oz of lead on a spring all wrapped in leather. |
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Posted: 4/7/2022 3:58:51 PM EST
[#50]
[Deleted]
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