There will be a recall and Sig will fix tge issue.  It's not like it's the first time something like has happened with a new gun.  Remington survived.

This could turn into a shitstorm, if true. I'm curious if my rep at GT would be interested in chatting about it.

I admit, I have dropped loaded carry guns twice. Both Glocks, both failed to fire. Having experienced that, drop safeties are hugely important to me.

They "rescinded" the authorization to carry the gun. Sorry that wasn't clear to you. Tool.

IIRC Gen 1 glocks failed the frisbee test done by the DEA.

Changes were made and the Glock became a better pistol.

Like the Glock changes will be made if needed and the P320 should be fine.

The P320 is new and like any new gun she will have growing pains along the way like the Glock and The M9.

At least the slide has fell off or broke in half.

I have both a G17 and a P320 btw

Police weapons are a weird issue.

Memphis used to issue the TSW version of the Smith and Wesson 40 cal.  Metal frame gun, not bad...DAO, not great.
Strange thing is that they used no oil and no cleaner.  It was dry brushed and there was a small tub of grease on the cleaning bench.  That's it.  


Then there are ammo issues...a PD I used to work with in GA had an ammo "locker" that was out in a field.  It had about a foot of water in the bottom and several cases on the pallet were under water.  Still shot it...


A lot of PDs don't have a deep repository of knowledge when it comes to firearms.  There is no historical memory beyond the oral history of guys who work there.  It leads to problems with picking "better" gear...and biases based on personal opinion vs fact.  

Plus their budgets are not that great...

YMMV

Right.  See how the title is misleading in such a way that it implies much greater effect than actually happened?  That's the definition of clickbait, and doing that makes one a tool.  

You have great info, not sure why you chose to present it in such a manner.

In for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

you called me a name and hurt my feelings. Quit picking on me. I'm just trying to be a good arfcom citizen. Is that so bad?

Never would have happened if they issued the HK VP9.  

Well schucks, I guess I just didn't understand.  


I need a fucking drink. 

Be honest.

You own a Sig320 dont you?

Duh, I already drop tested it in this thread.

So do I. Because of you. Hope you're proud of yourself.

Now you sound like my parents.  

Knew it.

I believe it's because it will give you a dead trigger when hit hard enough on the rear of the slide 

Got me.  

I love the way they feel and shoot and really don't want to get rid of them, but if they're not mechanically reliable then I guess they'll go.

Welp, I'm done being a pain in the ass now.  

<10yr police officer

Whenever stuff like this happens it was most likely a big-Whig that hasn't handled his firearm in a year and somehow manages to ND it in the presence of underlings...and, to not loose face as the incompotent oaf he is says "I dropped it and it just went off", quickly shooting off a memo banning said firearm as "proof" he wasn't lying and isn't an idiot. Actually had a Commander try this once before he was educated that a Glock doesn't go off when dropped.

Ever used a Sig320? Guessing not.


Hint: the trigger doesnt go "dead" like on a Glock (ie; when pulled it cant be pulled no more and locks to the rear) You can actually dry fire a 320. Ive asked since its came out if its a feature or a flaw to no response.

As I've posted at least twice, this may be a QC issue and not a design flaw. If I had one I wouldn't be in a hurry to dump it over this. But I'm not a tool.  

With Sig?!?!!? No Way!!!! Isolated incident!!!!

Mustve been distracted with their rainbow pride, diamond plate, Kentucky fried homo Gadsen guns is all. Wont happen again..

H&K admits themselves it's not a duty gun. They claim the vp9 isn't for serious use.

I was playing with P series Sigs before some posters here were born (if they were born after about 1990). I like Sig. I currently have 4 P series.  But for polymer striker fired, call me a fan boy. but for me these type pistols start and end with Glock.

Meh. I was called a liar when the 320 first came out for saying a couple guys in a 3 day class I was in, had the giant takedown levers cut the fuck out of their thumbs. On day 2 they went back to Glock. The "anything but Glock, Sig rules!!!!" fans assured me that 100rds slow fire at the square range developed no issues.

Then Sig released lo-pro levers, and I was told it may have been an issue but is fixed now... 


This thread is curiously missing a certain Sig employee that resembles Baghdad Bob at times when addressing serious Sig QC flaws...

And I had a friend with a 556R that was shit and get fucked on warranty, and a co-worker with a now discontinued 556 thats gonna son be fucked on future parts/repairs..

Ruger makes good stuff.

Did they helicopter drop test it?

Can you provide proof of this?

Got a reference for that? 

The working theory I've seen mentioned is that sufficient mass of the trigger bar and trigger arm above the fulcrum combined with the correct impact angle causes the upper parts to move forward releasing the striker by the trigger (system) effectively pulling itself.  A trigger tab would fix this and provide some additional margin against glancing trigger impingement by foreign objects.    However...

As for the trigger seeming to be forward when the primer fires in the video, it may partially disprove the prior theory in favor of something more akin to raking the tumblers when picking a lock.  The trigger bar may only be shocked forward within a small amount of travel or free play but with enough force to kick the striker block lever up enough under it's own momentum to clear its shelf as the sear is shocked downward, perpendicular to the slide, from that partial vector which is apparent in the video.  Note the pistol has a combined vector relative to the slide's axis on impact.

I've not had the chance to really inspect a P320's guts, but from my minimal understanding of the striker block and sear mechanism, this seems the most likely explanation.



BTW, I can get my G43 with an Apex trigger shoe installed to drop its striker on the block if the pistol is dropped at about 45° upside down and backwards (on the top rear edge of the slide) on carpet over pad and concrete from about 4 feet.  The Apex shoe's safety tab allows some movement of the trigger, which doesn't allow the cruciform to completely bypass the trigger housing's safety shelf, however it does allow enough extra flex at the sear surface to slip under the striker hook when pressed down with moderate but significant force by a dental pick, which is effectively impossible with the trigger fully forward.  

Given the angle of impact (partly upside down) you'd think the cruciform would be driven upward and maintain engagement with the striker hook, but when stuff gets smacked around, it's hard to predict the direction and timing of the resulting oscillations of parts in relation to each other, especially when they're transmitting shock forces into each other from a state of tensioned contact.  Kinda makes you wonder about all the ways a Glock extractor under a combination of obliquely angled pressure by a spring-loaded plunger coaxial to the recoil path could start bouncing and binding in its slot ({cough!} brass to face {cough!})... especially once you add varying mixtures of carbon build up and lubricant in that diving cut... plus plunger spring fatigue... odd how BTF often seems to start after 500 to 1000 rounds and is magically fixed by a factory cleaning and parts refresh-- for a while .  

Tangent, I know.  

If it won't fire a live round without resetting the striker-- and it won't --it's still functionally a dead trigger even if it clicky-clicks. 
I'm assuming that's what he was getting at.

Yeah, gonna need to see some data on that. I know of an agency that went absolutely ape shit when a guy's firing pin broke in a newer Glock, so I'm well aware of the over-reaction that occurs. If it's a demonstrable flaw with the gun that's one thing, but I'm gonna need to see some of the facts.

So you admit to spreading rumors?

Cease and desist order in 3... 2...

I'm not going to name my department, but I will say it's a large city. (Not Dallas)  In addition to our regular service pistols, we are authorized privately purchased back-up and off-duty pistols.  These pistols must be on the list approved by our ordnance section.  The Sig 320 is on the list.  About two weeks ago, a department wide email was sent out saying we are no longer permitted to carry the Sig 320, and I think it's because it may fire when dropped.  I don't think the email mentioned the source of that info.

Since I don't own one, I didn't do much more than quickly scan it and think something like, "And that just got chosen to be the new military pistol."

I think I deleted the email, and probably wouldn't post it if I still had it.

Office has AD.  Says it went off when dropped.

Everybody loses their minds.

Two people tried the same thing when the M&P was first issued to a neighboring agency. Even got S&W to come in and do a full investigation into the gun, magazines, and ammo. No problems found.

This is all nonsense.  MAC would have found this problem long ago.  If not him, one of his viewers.

My department had a rash of ADs when we went from a traditional double action pistol to a striker fired model.  All operator error.

How many new Sig products have came and went over the past 5 or so years? How many Sig products have shown massive QC issues over the past 10?

I really like the idea of the serialized part of the weapon being removable, but Sig is a shadow of its former self.

Hopefully the French army doesn't adopt the 320.

Why was the cop buying a holster? Personal preference or for off-duty use?


I've been in that store at least once a month since they opened and I've never really bothered to see what dpd guys are carrying.

Although several years ago I noticed a couple of them were carrying old analog Motorola Sabers and I actually commented to them wow, I can't believe you guys are carrying radios that old and they just sort of shrugged their shoulders and said yeah.  Both of them had the channel knobs missing, which is a common thing with those radios since they fell apart over the years.

More info on the issue, good stuff starts on page 3

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/207730-dallas-pd-recalls-p320.html

Most interesting reply from what I think is a Dallas LEO...

Well some of you guys may end up knowing more than us. No range master or Sig rep this morning. Just a bunch of ****** off cops having to give
up thier 320's for 226's. Trust me we want our 320's back. Plus we got
ridiculed by the guys going to glock school this morning. Supposedly the
weapon was drop tested and after one of the drops the trigger needed to
be reset. They have also said Sig has not responded to the dept's
request for help. But again that is rumor all we know is they took our
320's.

The AD reported by Dallas David Brown has given an official statement.

Chief Brown went on to add Don't click the link

Pretty sure Ruger would already have return boxes in the mail.

This quote is directly from their product page:

"VP pistols are made in Heckler & Koch’s Oberndorf factory in southwest Germany. The VP9 is well-suited for civilian sport shooting, security, military, and law enforcement use."

Every time my agency gets seriously interested in switching from a Glock, a rep from either a large Glock distributor and/or Glock rep shows up and has a meeting with the chief. Coincidentally, after these meetings, he decides to stay with them despite our armorers and trainers begging to switch.

Other industries' sales reps provide vacations, swag, etc to purchasing agents to generate/keep contracts so is it possible Glock is doing that as well? Could that be why this stuff happens especially now that Glock is facing losing market share?

Purchasing agent is a fancy name for professional whore on an epic scale (not all of em).
I have no idea how the LEA's and contracts work but in some other industries it a whore buy off festival.

I have done some buying decision making, and the golf, fishing trips, and such have all been turned down, I won't let my guys take advantage of any of em either.
Give me product and service for a fair price and don't bug me or my guy's, we have a job to do....I am fun at partys