Dear Texas, Please Secede - Page 4

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Posted: 12/22/2009 6:00:08 AM EST

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

The analogy is spot on. Abuse is abuse. It matters not if the abuser is an individual or the government. The abused have every right to take ALL measures to stop those that harm them.

And how are you being abused and harmed so unjustly by the fed? Anymore than anyone else? There are ways to fix the issue that don't involve succession.

It's not all about you.

My family immigrated there just before the turn of the century and much of my family is still there. Texas is far from perfect at the state level. These succession wet dreams are just that.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:00:11 AM EST

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

And why would you take up arms against someone wanting freedom and liberty?

TXL?

Like an abusive husband when the battered wife tries to leave, some folks just can't stand the thought.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:00:25 AM EST

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not sure how being a federal military reservist in a seceding

state would go down......

Simple read the OATH you took when you signed up.

It clearly states who you owe your allegiance too.

Unless that oath meant noting to you ?

Given that situation that would make Texas a domestic enemy of the US.

(If it were not a mutual agreement)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

The ONLY orders that any service member must follow are LAWFUL orders. Once the President issues an order contrary to the Constitution he has violated the oath of office an is a domestic enemy.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:00:45 AM EST

[#4]

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:01:17 AM EST

[#5]

Quoted:
This is a tag to see how long this thread has until it turns into an anti CA thread.

Two posts following your tag - and a bit more than 2 minutes. So damn predictable.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:01:58 AM EST

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will say again...as I do in all secession threads...if secession occurs then we would need to secure all the military bases to prevent all the equipment from being moved out so that we would have the means to defend ourselves with more than just personally owned rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Sorry thats US Govt property and they will take it by force if it came to that.
Not saying I would wish that but you don't mess with Texas and you sure as hell don't fuck with the US Military, they will ruin your day.

Come... and take it?

They will and there isn't a fucking thing you could do about it.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:03:08 AM EST

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Whereas I'm perfectly ok with accepting anyone who is pissed off at living under the tyrannical USA and emigrating to Texas. Those are the kinds of people we want.

You can keep the rest.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:03:50 AM EST

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will say again...as I do in all secession threads...if secession occurs then we would need to secure all the military bases to prevent all the equipment from being moved out so that we would have the means to defend ourselves with more than just personally owned rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Sorry thats US Govt property and they will take it by force if it came to that.
Not saying I would wish that but you don't mess with Texas and you sure as hell don't fuck with the US Military, they will ruin your day.

Come... and take it?

They will and there isn't a fucking thing you could do about it.

lol

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:04:00 AM EST

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will say again...as I do in all secession threads...if secession occurs then we would need to secure all the military bases to prevent all the equipment from being moved out so that we would have the means to defend ourselves with more than just personally owned rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Sorry thats US Govt property and they will take it by force if it came to that.
Not saying I would wish that but you don't mess with Texas and you sure as hell don't fuck with the US Military, they will ruin your day.

Come... and take it?

They will and there isn't a fucking thing you could do about it.

You sound like some shrimp in a school yard threatening to sic your older brother on the rest of us for spilling your milk.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:04:45 AM EST

[#10]

You know I really want Texas to secede?

To finally put an end to these threads.

Once the dust settled, one way or the other, can you imagine how many bans there would be in the after action thread?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:05:19 AM EST

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

No, it's perfectly accurate.

It's none of the other States' business if Texas leaves or stays. This isn't a death pact and the "perpetual union" bullshit was invented out of thin air by men who wanted to give the Federal government a life of it's own.

With all due respect Texas cannot legally suceed if the USA does not wish it, there is not a chance in hell of thois happening.
It's fun to talk about but it will never come to pass.
Texas has no more rights than any other State in this Union, PERIOD!

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:05:36 AM EST

[#12]

Quoted:
You know I really want Texas to secede?

To finally put an end to these threads.

Once the dust settled, one way or the other, can you imagine how many bans there would be in the after action thread?

I suspect the Feds would immediately nuke the internet to disrupt communications.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:06:32 AM EST

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will say again...as I do in all secession threads...if secession occurs then we would need to secure all the military bases to prevent all the equipment from being moved out so that we would have the means to defend ourselves with more than just personally owned rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Sorry thats US Govt property and they will take it by force if it came to that.
Not saying I would wish that but you don't mess with Texas and you sure as hell don't fuck with the US Military, they will ruin your day.

Come... and take it?

They will and there isn't a fucking thing you could do about it.

lol

This isn't 1861. There will be no thunder run to Austin. A secession would be guys in suits and numbers on balance sheets, all over cable news.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:06:59 AM EST

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You know I really want Texas to secede?

To finally put an end to these threads.

Once the dust settled, one way or the other, can you imagine how many bans there would be in the after action thread?

I suspect the Feds would immediately nuke the internet to disrupt communications.

Most assuredly, but one assumes that after a few months to a year or so that the net would be back up––-though perhaps Arfcom would be on the list of banned sites.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:07:51 AM EST

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

No, it's perfectly accurate.

It's none of the other States' business if Texas leaves or stays. This isn't a death pact and the "perpetual union" bullshit was invented out of thin air by men who wanted to give the Federal government a life of it's own.

With all due respect Texas cannot legally suceed if the USA does not wish it, there is not a chance in hell of thois happening.
It's fun to talk about but it will never come to pass.
Texas has no more rights than any other State in this Union, PERIOD!

States don't have rights. They have powers. And you're right. Any State can legally secede if it wishes to do so.

Do you also hold the belief that the other States could have legally forced Texas to join in the first place?

Just who in the hell do you think created the USA, anyways? It certainly didn't create itself.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:10:26 AM EST

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

The analogy is spot on. Abuse is abuse. It matters not if the abuser is an individual or the government. The abused have every right to take ALL measures to stop those that harm them.

And how are you being abused and harmed so unjustly by the fed? Anymore than anyone else? There are ways to fix the issue that don't involve succession.

It's not all about you.

My family immigrated there just before the turn of the century and much of my family is still there. Texas is far from perfect at the state level. These succession wet dreams are just that.

How were the American Colonies more abused than any of the other British Colonies? Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but the fact remains THEY determined they had had enough and took the steps necessary to ensure their liberty. The same self evident truth applies today.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:11:46 AM EST

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Damn I love this state.

See if you love it if the USA blocks exports to the country of Texas?

I hope ya'll can do without refined petroleum products.

eta: I'm sure we can print up some new "Freeze the Yankee" bumper stickers if the need arises.

Do you really believe that Texas has the shear might to secession from the USA if it wanted to go and the USA wanted it to stay?
No FUCKING WAY.
This whole secession idea is mental masturbation at best.
Wishfull thinking and tough talk from Texans living under a lie that they can use secession by prior aggreement with the USA.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:12:16 AM EST

[#18]

Just checked the map and you guys are still here.

Is that all you Texans can do is talk big?

This is about as anti-feedom and anti-Constitution of a thread you can get.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:12:44 AM EST

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Damn I love this state.

See if you love it if the USA blocks exports to the country of Texas?

That would be an act of war.

So what , so would secession ahhahahahahahahaha

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:14:05 AM EST

[#20]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Texas hold the right to further divide itself in to other states? Imagine what we could do with say 5 more states and 10 more (hopefully Republican Senators).

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:15:55 AM EST

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Whereas I'm perfectly ok with accepting anyone who is pissed off at living under the tyrannical USA and emigrating to Texas. Those are the kinds of people we want.

You can keep the rest.

Oh so you would kick out those Texans you deem unfit to be Texans?
Wow Nazi much LOL

By thre way how do you think you can kick out Texans born and bred?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:16:32 AM EST

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

The analogy is spot on. Abuse is abuse. It matters not if the abuser is an individual or the government. The abused have every right to take ALL measures to stop those that harm them.

And how are you being abused and harmed so unjustly by the fed? Anymore than anyone else? There are ways to fix the issue that don't involve succession.

It's not all about you.

My family immigrated there just before the turn of the century and much of my family is still there. Texas is far from perfect at the state level. These succession wet dreams are just that.

How were the American Colonies more abused than any of the other British Colonies? Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but the fact remains THEY determined they had had enough and took the steps necessary to ensure their liberty. The same self evident truth applies today.

MMmmm - not so much.

And the Colonists took painstaking measures to try to come to a diplomatic resolution.

Keep stroking your secession fantasies. Not only will it never happen, if it did it would be the worst mistake since 1860.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:16:46 AM EST

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will say again...as I do in all secession threads...if secession occurs then we would need to secure all the military bases to prevent all the equipment from being moved out so that we would have the means to defend ourselves with more than just personally owned rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Sorry thats US Govt property and they will take it by force if it came to that.
Not saying I would wish that but you don't mess with Texas and you sure as hell don't fuck with the US Military, they will ruin your day.

Come... and take it?

They will and there isn't a fucking thing you could do about it.

You sound like some shrimp in a school yard threatening to sic your older brother on the rest of us for spilling your milk.

No just jealous I wans't born in Texas

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:16:52 AM EST

[#24]

Quoted:: I'm sure we can print up some new "Freeze the Yankee" bumper stickers if the need arises.

"Drive 75, and freeze 'em alive!"

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:16:53 AM EST

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Randomly ask Oklahomans if they would llike their state to bail too.

Yea , Texans and Okies might fight amongst themselves , but I don't think they'd stand by if some outsider decided to pick on the other

kind of serious question: i understand many native americans (indians) were placed in oklahoma and tribes have contracts/treaties with the US gov. if oklahoma were to secede, wtf would happen with the tribes? trail of tears 2.0? except they'd have grey hound instead of walking in the winter with small pox blankets.

Well, that is an interesting question.

I'll take a stab at it since I live here.

Most of the Indians I know are so totally integrated that I see no distinction between them and any other Oklahoman. I know card-carrying tribal members that are pale-skinned, blonde-haired, blue-eyed. I know others (some are relatives) that look full blood. I know others that still believe in stickney––-superstition. Some are college educated, some aren't. Some are industrious, some aren't. Most of the SE tribes are heavily interbred with Irish and Scots-Irish, and you can see the whole genetic gamut at family reunions. The SE tribes are typically pretty conservative. In short, most people in Oklahoma are part Indian, and you wouldn't ever know it by looking at them.

I grew up with some plains tribes friends, and they are a little different culturally. But, they still have a fairly strong warrior ethos. I served with quite a few Lakota as an infantryman in the USMC. They are also disproprtionately respresented in the military based on population. A funny thing to me was whenever we'd get deployed somewhere, there was inevitably a mini pow wow (well, drinking a lot of beer while listening to pow wow music) within a few days of landing if you had a plains tribe guy in your platoon.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:17:08 AM EST

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Damn I love this state.

See if you love it if the USA blocks exports to the country of Texas?

I hope ya'll can do without refined petroleum products.

eta: I'm sure we can print up some new "Freeze the Yankee" bumper stickers if the need arises.

Do you really believe that Texas has the shear might to secession from the USA if it wanted to go and the USA wanted it to stay?
No FUCKING WAY.
This whole secession idea is mental masturbation at best.
Wishfull thinking and tough talk from Texans living under a lie that they can use secession by prior aggreement with the USA.

Texas doesn't have such prior agreement with the USA. That's a misunderstanding based on the option to split into five separate States upon entering the Union.

The power to secede is an un enumerated power reserved by the States under the 10th Amendment. The Federal government no more has the legal power to force us to stay than it does the power to force us to join or leave.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:17:58 AM EST

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Whereas I'm perfectly ok with accepting anyone who is pissed off at living under the tyrannical USA and emigrating to Texas. Those are the kinds of people we want.

You can keep the rest.

Oh so you would kick out those Texans you deem unfit to be Texans?
Wow Nazi much LOL

By thre way how do you think you can kick out Texans born and bred?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:18:04 AM EST

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

No, it's perfectly accurate.

It's none of the other States' business if Texas leaves or stays. This isn't a death pact and the "perpetual union" bullshit was invented out of thin air by men who wanted to give the Federal government a life of it's own.

With all due respect Texas cannot legally suceed if the USA does not wish it, there is not a chance in hell of thois happening.
It's fun to talk about but it will never come to pass.
Texas has no more rights than any other State in this Union, PERIOD!

States don't have rights. They have powers. And you're right. Any State can legally secede if it wishes to do so.

Do you also hold the belief that the other States could have legally forced Texas to join in the first place?

Just who in the hell do you think created the USA, anyways? It certainly didn't create itself.

yeah yeah I forgot all texans think texas is God almighty

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:18:38 AM EST

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Still too many fed $$$ worth. Face it, until a state has the balls to completely refuse federal funding, no one's going to secede anytime soon. Money ties this union together far more than any ideology can ever hope break.

Did you not see what we posted? If we remove ourself from the US, stop paying federal taxes, and start paying what we were paying in fed tax, to the state, we will be better off than we are now.

As long as you can convince other states to keep selling y'all electricity and freshwater since you don't have enough.

I'm willing to bet QUITE A FEW PAYCHECKS that you are wrong about the electricity thing. How much are you willing to bet on that?

Economics will allow some folks to bring in power from oklahoma, as an arbitrage, but there is no need at all to bring in power. It's actually the free electrical market here in TX that allows it to happen.

TXL

See my previous post to the other guy where a Texas state website says you have a net IMPORT of electricity. Water? Not enough. Your AG industry is so heavily geared towards production of feed for cattle, that it's sorely lacking in the human consumables area. Texas is a great state, but it can't do it on it's own right now.

Your previous post was full of FAIL.

Despite large net interstate electricity imports in some areas, the Texas power grid is largely isolated from the integrated power systems serving the eastern and western U.S., and most areas of Texas have little ability to export or import electricity to and from other states.

The quote you quoted was describing how the Texas grid is indpendent from the rest of the country, and that for almost all of Texas interstate electricity trade is non-existent. Do you know how big the "some areas" are that are electricity importers? A few low population counties on the periphery of the state that for convenience reasons a long time ago were tied into the neighboring grid instead of the Texas intertie.

A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:19:18 AM EST

[#30]

Did we do this thread last month? I'm certain of it.

Oh well ... I'm 110% for it - where do I send my money, when do I cast my vote? Hopefully more states would follow but, if not, the message might have been sent to the federal government. And as much as it's the wet dream of the General Discussion it ain't gonna' happen. There are no leaders from the conservative side standing up in Congress. Nobody is walking out of session. There aren't folks marching in the streets.

But.

It's not hopeless. The "teabaggers" - funny how the liberal press labeled them - that ground roots movement wasn't a Texas movement - it was a nationwide movement and that's important. As much as the General Discussion wisdom blames one state for the election they're looking at one state for leadership and that's simply not how it works. Yet continue to waste time and energy focused on the wrong target and you're not going to be part of the solution.

I've been watching politics since the Richard Nixon election and I'm hearing some rumblings that I haven't heard since Ronald Reagan's elections. Unfortunately I don't know if the current party leaders have the right stuff - Michael Steele (Maryland) and Mitch McConnell (Kentucky) need to go. John Boehner (Ohio) does little better. With ineffective leadership Palin/Paul/Thompson haven't a chance. Just like wars are won with logistics so are elections. The sad fact is that the conservative leadership is failing us.

Note to self: I have to start writing on a sixth grade reading level.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:20:25 AM EST

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well leave already!

The only thing that will happen sooner is watching Cali explode. lol

Are you bothered by others wanting freedom and taking the steps to secure that freedom?

TXL

When it could damage the US as a whole?
You're fucking right, My allegence is to the United States Of America

Anything else or first is fucking treason!

Wow, impressive rage. Try pointing it at the problem, not the solution.

TXL

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:21:11 AM EST

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You know I really want Texas to secede?

To finally put an end to these threads.

Once the dust settled, one way or the other, can you imagine how many bans there would be in the after action thread?

I suspect the Feds would immediately nuke the internet to disrupt communications.

Most assuredly, but one assumes that after a few months to a year or so that the net would be back up––-though perhaps Arfcom would be on the list of banned sites.

No need, the members would have been rounded up long ago and sent to death camps.
Did I say death camps? I meant happy terminal illness care centers.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:21:15 AM EST

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

No, it's perfectly accurate.

It's none of the other States' business if Texas leaves or stays. This isn't a death pact and the "perpetual union" bullshit was invented out of thin air by men who wanted to give the Federal government a life of it's own.

With all due respect Texas cannot legally suceed if the USA does not wish it, there is not a chance in hell of thois happening.
It's fun to talk about but it will never come to pass.
Texas has no more rights than any other State in this Union, PERIOD!

States don't have rights. They have powers. And you're right. Any State can legally secede if it wishes to do so.

Do you also hold the belief that the other States could have legally forced Texas to join in the first place?

Just who in the hell do you think created the USA, anyways? It certainly didn't create itself.

yeah yeah I forgot all texans think texas is God almighty

*sigh*

The STATES created the Federal government. Please quit being so intentionally obtuse.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:21:31 AM EST

[#34]

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:22:00 AM EST

[#35]

Quoted:
You know I really want Texas to secede?

To finally put an end to these threads.

Once the dust settled, one way or the other, can you imagine how many bans there would be in the after action thread?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:22:45 AM EST

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

No, it's perfectly accurate.

It's none of the other States' business if Texas leaves or stays. This isn't a death pact and the "perpetual union" bullshit was invented out of thin air by men who wanted to give the Federal government a life of it's own.

With all due respect Texas cannot legally suceed if the USA does not wish it, there is not a chance in hell of thois happening.

It's fun to talk about but it will never come to pass.

Texas has no more rights than any other State in this Union, PERIOD!

Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address:

Friends and Fellow-Citizens: CALLED upon to undertake the duties of the first executive office of our country, I avail myself of the presence of that portion of my fellow-citizens which is here assembled to express my grateful thanks for the favor with which they have been pleased to look toward me, to declare a sincere consciousness that the task is above my talents, and that I approach it with those anxious and awful presentiments which the greatness of the charge and the weakness of my powers so justly inspire. A rising nation, spread over a wide and fruitful land, traversing all the seas with the rich productions of their industry, engaged in commerce with nations who feel power and forget right, advancing rapidly to destinies beyond the reach of mortal eye—when I contemplate these transcendent objects, and see the honor, the happiness, and the hopes of this beloved country committed to the issue, and the auspices of this day, I shrink from the contemplation, and humble myself before the magnitude of the undertaking. Utterly, indeed, should I despair did not the presence of many whom I here see remind me that in the other high authorities provided by our Constitution I shall find resources of wisdom, of virtue, and of zeal on which to rely under all difficulties. To you, then, gentlemen, who are charged with the sovereign functions of legislation, and to those associated with you, I look with encouragement for that guidance and support which may enable us to steer with safety the vessel in which we are all embarked amidst the conflicting elements of a troubled world.	1
During the contest of opinion through which we have passed the animation of discussions and of exertions has sometimes worn an aspect which might impose on strangers unused to think freely and to speak and to write what they think; but this being now decided by the voice of the nation, announced according to the rules of the Constitution, all will, of course, arrange themselves under the will of the law, and unite in common efforts for the common good. All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression. Let us, then, fellow-citizens, unite with one heart and one mind. Let us restore to social intercourse that harmony and affection without which liberty and even life itself are but dreary things. And let us reflect that, having banished from our land that religious intolerance under which mankind so long bled and suffered, we have yet gained little if we countenance a political intolerance as despotic, as wicked, and capable of as bitter and bloody persecutions. During the throes and convulsions of the ancient world, during the agonizing spasms of infuriated man, seeking through blood and slaughter his long-lost liberty, it was not wonderful that the agitation of the billows should reach even this distant and peaceful shore; that this should be more felt and feared by some and less by others, and should divide opinions as to measures of safety. But every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle. We have called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists. If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. I know, indeed, that some honest men fear that a republican government can not be strong, that this Government is not strong enough; but would the honest patriot, in the full tide of successful experiment, abandon a government which has so far kept us free and firm on the theoretic and visionary fear that this Government, the world's best hope, may by possibility want energy to preserve itself? I trust not. I believe this, on the contrary, the strongest Government on earth. I believe it the only one where every man, at the call of the law, would fly to the standard of the law, and would meet invasions of the public order as his own personal concern. Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.	2
Let us, then, with courage and confidence pursue our own Federal and Republican principles, our attachment to union and representative government. Kindly separated by nature and a wide ocean from the exterminating havoc of one quarter of the globe; too high-minded to endure the degradations of the others; possessing a chosen country, with room enough for our descendants to the thousandth and thousandth generation; entertaining a due sense of our equal right to the use of our own faculties, to the acquisitions of our own industry, to honor and confidence from our fellow-citizens, resulting not from birth, but from our actions and their sense of them; enlightened by a benign religion, professed, indeed, and practiced in various forms, yet all of them inculcating honesty, truth, temperance, gratitude, and the love of man; acknowledging and adoring an overruling Providence, which by all its dispensations proves that it delights in the happiness of man here and his greater happiness hereafter—with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities.	3
About to enter, fellow-citizens, on the exercise of duties which comprehend everything dear and valuable to you, it is proper you should understand what I deem the essential principles of our Government, and consequently those which ought to shape its Administration. I will compress them within the narrowest compass they will bear, stating the general principle, but not all its limitations. Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none; the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against antirepublican tendencies; the preservation of the General Government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad; a jealous care of the right of election by the people—a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided; absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority, the vital principle of republics, from which is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism; a well disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them; the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burthened; the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith; encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid; the diffusion of information and arraignment of all abuses at the bar of the public reason; freedom of religion; freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected. These principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety.	4
I repair, then, fellow-citizens, to the post you have assigned me. With experience enough in subordinate offices to have seen the difficulties of this the greatest of all, I have learnt to expect that it will rarely fall to the lot of imperfect man to retire from this station with the reputation and the favor which bring him into it. Without pretensions to that high confidence you reposed in our first and greatest revolutionary character, whose preeminent services had entitled him to the first place in his country's love and destined for him the fairest page in the volume of faithful history, I ask so much confidence only as may give firmness and effect to the legal administration of your affairs. I shall often go wrong through defect of judgment. When right, I shall often be thought wrong by those whose positions will not command a view of the whole ground. I ask your indulgence for my own errors, which will never be intentional, and your support against the errors of others, who may condemn what they would not if seen in all its parts. The approbation implied by your suffrage is a great consolation to me for the past, and my future solicitude will be to retain the good opinion of those who have bestowed it in advance, to conciliate that of others by doing them all the good in my power, and to be instrumental to the happiness and freedom of all.	5
Relying, then, on the patronage of your good will, I advance with obedience to the work, ready to retire from it whenever you become sensible how much better choice it is in your power to make. And may that Infinite Power which rules the destinies of the universe lead our councils to what is best, and give them a favorable issue for your peace and prosperity.

Do you honestly believe you know more about the Founding Father's intentions of the Constitution than Thomas Jefferson did?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:22:58 AM EST

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Whereas I'm perfectly ok with accepting anyone who is pissed off at living under the tyrannical USA and emigrating to Texas. Those are the kinds of people we want.

You can keep the rest.

Oh so you would kick out those Texans you deem unfit to be Texans?
Wow Nazi much LOL

By thre way how do you think you can kick out Texans born and bred?

Don't duck that question with a smiley.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:24:03 AM EST

[#38]

Quoted:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Texas hold the right to further divide itself in to other states? Imagine what we could do with say 5 more states and 10 more (hopefully Republican Senators).

With the demographics along our southern border, it probably wouldn't be a Republican sweep. Of course It would all depend on how the state lines would be cut.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:24:54 AM EST

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well leave already!

The only thing that will happen sooner is watching Cali explode. lol

Are you bothered by others wanting freedom and taking the steps to secure that freedom?

TXL

When it could damage the US as a whole?
You're fucking right, My allegence is to the United States Of America

Anything else or first is fucking treason!

Wow, impressive rage. Try pointing it at the problem, not the solution.

TXL

If by solution you mean running when things get tough?

That ain't the Texans I know

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:25:20 AM EST

[#40]

Quoted:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Texas hold the right to further divide itself in to other states? Imagine what we could do with say 5 more states and 10 more (hopefully Republican Senators).

No, IIRC that was part of the original state constitution that was lost upon Reconstruction.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:25:21 AM EST

[#41]

Quoted:
You know I really want Texas to secede?

To finally put an end to these threads.

Once the dust settled, one way or the other, can you imagine how many bans there would be in the after action thread?

They'd need a new banhammer. Seriously, they'd wear the old one out

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:25:30 AM EST

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Whereas I'm perfectly ok with accepting anyone who is pissed off at living under the tyrannical USA and emigrating to Texas. Those are the kinds of people we want.

You can keep the rest.

Oh so you would kick out those Texans you deem unfit to be Texans?
Wow Nazi much LOL

By thre way how do you think you can kick out Texans born and bred?

Dobn't duck that question with a smiley.

The smiley is because anything I say will be read by you without the slightest bit of comprehension and regurgitated as retarded gibberish.

Where in the hell did you get that I would kick anyone out of anywhere? Wow, Chris Matthews much?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:27:17 AM EST

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Dear Texas - please don't. I wouldn't want to take up arms against you.

So you are of a mind that it is justified for a man to beat his wife if she grows tired of his abuse and leaves him?

Horrible, inaccurate analogy.

No, it's perfectly accurate.

It's none of the other States' business if Texas leaves or stays. This isn't a death pact and the "perpetual union" bullshit was invented out of thin air by men who wanted to give the Federal government a life of it's own.

With all due respect Texas cannot legally suceed if the USA does not wish it, there is not a chance in hell of this happening.
It's fun to talk about but it will never come to pass.
Texas has no more rights than any other State in this Union, PERIOD!

States don't have rights. They have powers. And you're right. Any State can legally secede if it wishes to do so.

Do you also hold the belief that the other States could have legally forced Texas to join in the first place?

Just who in the hell do you think created the USA, anyways? It certainly didn't create itself.

yeah yeah I forgot all texans think texas is God almighty

*sigh*

The STATES created the Federal government. Please quit being so intentionally obtuse.

Why I like being obtuse sometimes in these "texas is leaving" fantasy threads.

By the way , did you just watch Shawskank redemption lately ?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:27:46 AM EST

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Well leave already!

The only thing that will happen sooner is watching Cali explode. lol

Are you bothered by others wanting freedom and taking the steps to secure that freedom?

TXL

When it could damage the US as a whole?

You're fucking right, My allegence is to the United States Of America

Anything else or first is fucking treason!

So does that mean you will blindly follow, and support your country as it travels down the road to despotism and tyranny inspire of a group who wishes to disembark a train wreck?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:28:23 AM EST

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's interesting to say Obama would let us leave. I wonder if someone else would form a coup in order to depose Obama and attempt to save the Union anyway.

Quoted:
So...how many federal tax $$$ does Texas take in these days?

Who cares, as soon as the welfare stops, the leaches would leave. All the better!

BS they are citizens of the country of Texas, they are yours and no passports will be honored for the Country of Texas, you keep your dregs and we will keep ours.

Whereas I'm perfectly ok with accepting anyone who is pissed off at living under the tyrannical USA and emigrating to Texas. Those are the kinds of people we want.

You can keep the rest.

Oh so you would kick out those Texans you deem unfit to be Texans?
Wow Nazi much LOL

By thre way how do you think you can kick out Texans born and bred?

Dobn't duck that question with a smiley.

One post says that the welfare scum will leave if Texas was independent. Another post says that we will allow in people who hate tyranny and want to move to Texas. Your retort is "Oh so you would kick out those Texans you deem unfit to be Texans? Wow Nazi much LOL"

Did you pass your middle school reading comprehension tests? Seriously?

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:30:53 AM EST

[#46]

Quoted:

Ran across this. Enjoy!

Dear Texas,

I don't know much about you. I don't live there.

Apparently.

I know that most of your nasty collectivist hippies have been confined to Austin,

Houston recently screwed that up.

You also have bad food. Seriously. It's bad. Don't tell me about your barbeque and authentic Mexican crap, because I'm from New Orleans. Ça va?

You've got to be kidding.

Also you have Ross Perot, and he's batsh-t crazy.

Maybe, but I'll take his kind of crazy any day:

In 1979, two EDS employees were taken hostage by the Iranian government. Perot directed a successful rescue mission composed of EDS employees and led by retired Green Beret Colonel Arthur “Bull” Simons. Perot himself went to Iran and entered the prison where his men were held.

You are the last best hope of mankind.

Great.

So bear in mind, Dear Texas, that when you declare independence, Mexico will try to take you back.

Though there are quite a few Mexican nationals here most are not some Manchurian Candidate secret commando cell. Most are just here to work and take their money back to Mexico to live just above squalor. That being said, Mexico itself would have no prayer if they invade Texas with a conventional army.

You guys need to remember too that if this were to happen, you might not like what Texas becomes. We would likely be extremely isolationist with ridiculously high import tarriffs making the crap youz unionz guyz try to sell to us virtually impossible to sell (think China or Japan).

You would not be welcome. Sorry.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:30:56 AM EST

[#47]

I hate california.

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:32:14 AM EST

[#48]

Considering how well run Texas is run and how everyone already agrees with one another, I am sure it will be a resounding success and Johnson and Johnson will go bankrupt from their KY Jelly sales going flat. (who needs to jack of to the fantasy, when you're living it?)

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:33:00 AM EST

[#49]

I own a 79 Rx7

Posted: 12/22/2009 6:38:08 AM EST

[#50]

Quoted:

Considering how well run Texas is run and how everyone already agrees with one another, I am sure it will be a resounding success and Johnson and Johnson will go bankrupt from their KY Jelly sales going flat. (who needs to jack of to the fantasy, when you're living it?)

Nobody in Texas wants to force you at gunpoint to live here or send your money here. Too bad so many from other states don't feel the same way about Texas.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dear Texas, Please Secede (Page 4 of 7)

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