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.. from possessing guns would reduce the occurrence of these mass shootings? I'm referring to the ADD meds, ambien, psychotropic and such. We all know that killers will kill. Whether with a gun or a car or a donut, but I'm talking about users of prescribe mind altering medications. Would you be pissed if it was added to the 4473? View Quote No, the blacklisting of people taking certain meds would not reduce the rate occurrence of the mass shooting. Yes, I would be pissed if ANYTHING was added to the 4473 as the form itself is an abomination and an infringement. People taking drugs to maintain mental health should not be punished. If someone is insane and is a danger with a gun... They should not be walking among the rest of us, as they are also a danger without a gun. They could also buy a gun illegally, steal one, etc. The point is you remove the threat from society, not a single tool among millions of tools. |
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Stop giving murders and politicians over us. Stop calling for red flags and gun confiscation. Of all places we shouldn’t have this kind of bullshit suggested here. View Quote |
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Quoted: You're asking two questions with different answers... No, the blacklisting of people taking certain meds would not reduce the rate occurrence of the mass shooting. Yes, I would be pissed if ANYTHING was added to the 4473 as the form itself is an abomination and an infringement. People taking drugs to maintain mental health should not be punished. If someone is insane and is a danger with a gun... They should not be walking among the rest of us, as they are also a danger without a gun. They could also buy a gun illegally, steal one, etc. The point is you remove the threat from society, not a single tool among millions of tools. View Quote |
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Quoted: Little worked up about my statement I see. Nothing I said was not factually true seems like you are upset that I pointed out some of the downsides of these meds. These meds change your brain chemistry no denying that because that is the designed function of the drugs. I also never said they have the same effects on every single user. They have different effects on different people because not every single person has the same exact chemistry going on in the brain. What I said is they lower inhibition and for some people who already have low inhibition to do morally wrong things or who are already predisposed to deviant behavior the drugs can remove the little inhibition the user does have. Just like some people act out violently when they drink alcohol and some people become more friendly/bubbly. Have suffered or not suffered from a mental issue has not bearing on knowing how a particular drug will react with someone. When you step back and look at something objectively and study how the drug works chemically in the body you gain a better understanding of what the pharmaceutical company was trying to accomplish. Yes I do have first hand knowledge of the chemistry behind how many drugs work and how they function I have a BA and MA in Biology and Chemistry. What I can tell you is the drugs are many times prescribed incorrectly and for the most part it has a positive effect on the user but that is not the problem. The problem is that small minority that get the drugs prescribed and it has the wrong intended effect. I saw it first hand in my cousin who is bi-polar and suffers from depression they had the complete wrong effect on her. Why do you think one of the side effects they mention in the commercials they say "if you have thoughts of suicide" to stop or contact your doctor? Because the drugs lower ones inhibition that normally tells you not to do this or that making it easier to overcome that mind hurdle. View Quote Hail Xenu. |
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I've been in the pharma industry for 30 years. I've made them and helped develop them. I know well what they do and how they do it. View Quote If you feel comfortable answering this publicly please do :) You guys have to have gotten the ripples by now, a schedule 1 drug bieng evaluated in fda clinical trials for PTSD therapy. Any personal conclusions to draw from a serotonin releasing entactogenic amphetamine showing significant therapeutic value? Perhaps unorthodox therapy for ailments like PTSD, depression, emotions at end of life sickness, etc. share similar promise for the relevent mental problems associated with mass killing. |
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Quoted: So you just want to transfer the left's hate of guns, and their desire to restrict them, to hate of psych meds, and the desire to restrict them. I see. Hail Xenu. View Quote I do not think many people grasp what these drugs do to the person who takes these drugs the effects it has on your brain. The red flag on these drugs should be when they are reading off side effects may include and mention "if you have thoughts of suicide" that these drugs are serious and really effect the patient. I am not tying my comments to guns I am simply stating facts about the drugs and what they do to people. Take an hour out of your day and learn the chemistry behind what these drugs to in the brain. It is pretty neat at the same time make you think if this drug gets into the wrong hand what the intended effect will be. Could these drugs be the reason for the jump in suicides over the decades? Also I never said that they do not work for some people because they do when they are dosed correctly and the person legitimately needs them. |
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I’ve been around GD over 14 years, and this is the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen posted.
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All you are proving is that drugs are sometimes prescribed incorrectly. That is the fault of doctors and pharmacists (and I respect them because I know they are smarter than me) that don’t have enough experience or knowledge
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No, because some of it has off label use for non crazy people.
SSRI’s can be used for premature ejaculation. |
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The reason the fuckers are on the shit to begin with is because they are fucked up. Nobody ever says “I’m surprised Bob did this! He was such a well adjusted individual!” I’m not even sure what a good solution is to the problem is. Parents can see the warning signs that their kids are crazy shits but often ignore it like the Newtown shooters mom did. View Quote |
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All you are proving is that drugs are sometimes prescribed incorrectly. That is the fault of doctors and pharmacists (and I respect them because I know they are smarter than me) that don’t have enough experience or knowledge View Quote I do not think doctors do it intentionally but it seems that just by going to the doctor they think they should prescribe something or give the patient a pill. I honestly think doctors should prescribe placebos for people because we have proven the placebo effect works in a lot of cases which is why they give people placebo in drug trials. I also agree some people need real treatment and many drugs have a good positive effect where they upside far outweighs the downside. Look at the opioid issues going on you can hardly get doctors to prescribe them now except for legitimate reasons but opioids are sometimes better drugs to take than NSAIDS if they are taken properly.. That is the hard part about opioids is getting people to take them correctly which many do not. |
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Quoted: I do think these drugs need better regulations. They are way over prescribed to people who do not need them because a person said to their doctor I am X Y Z. Then out comes the script pad and boom her take these three drugs twice a day you will feel all better. I do not think many people grasp what these drugs do to the person who takes these drugs the effects it has on your brain. View Quote We are the only country on this planet that allows Big Pharma to advertise directly to the consumer. People are self diagnosing and doctors are getting kick backs from prescribing these medications. |
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.. from possessing guns would reduce the occurrence of these mass shootings? View Quote And so far not a single proposal to further regulate guns would have altered ANY of these events. |
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These threads go up every time there's a mass shooting. Apparently psych meds trigger a whole bunch of Real Men (TM) on this board. View Quote |
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The OP seems to be smart, but either unable to express his views adequately or is really not that knowledgeable about this subject.
An otherwise normal person with ADHD who takes as amphetamine based medication does not suddenly lose inhibitions. The medicine works to inhibit their impulses so they are in what i’ll call the “normal range”. This is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Every medicine has the potential to do something screwy to the patient. If you are going to go down this road, you would have to prohibit anyone on any medicine. We really have a shortage of psychiatrists in the US. Laws and court rulings also prevent confinement of those truly prone to violence. Illegal drugs also worsen mental illness or possibly bring it out in those who might not otherwise develop it. |
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.. from possessing guns would reduce the occurrence of these mass shootings? I'm referring to the ADD meds, ambien, psychotropic and such. We all know that killers will kill. Whether with a gun or a car or a donut, but I'm talking about users of prescribe mind altering medications. Would you be pissed if it was added to the 4473? View Quote |
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The OP seems to be smart, but either unable to express his views adequately or is really not that knowledgeable about this subject. An otherwise normal person with ADHD who takes as amphetamine based medication does not suddenly lose inhibitions. The medicine works to inhibit their impulses so they are in what i’ll call the “normal range”. This is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Every medicine has the potential to do something screwy to the patient. If you are going to go down this road, you would have to prohibit anyone on any medicine. We really have a shortage of psychiatrists in the US. Laws and court rulings also prevent confinement of those truly prone to violence. Illegal drugs also worsen mental illness or possibly bring it out in those who might not otherwise develop it. View Quote |
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One of the biggest reasons I held off talking to a doctor about my chronic anxiety and depression was fear of having my problems in some file that could someday make me a prohibited person. I can tell you firsthand, that isn't a fun way to go through life. View Quote |
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4473s shouldn't exist. The FFL system is unconstitutional. The Gun Control Act is unconstitutional.
And again, it isn't government's job to decide who is "safe" to be allowed to own guns. |
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Well, I don't feel bad for asking it. I only know that asking it here is a stupid idea because some can't have a discussion, but would rather try and score cool points by posting the wittiest drivel that GD is known for. Many prescrips change the function and pathways of serotonin and/or dopamine. This changes the decision making process and compromises the person's ability to have rational, level minded thought. Look, I get that the 4473 can be lied on and has been since it began. In the case of this tool in El Paso, there were no real indicators at cursory glance that he was headed down this path. Is it a matter of spoiled brats that play too much video games? Or was he another kid that had been taking Ritalin since he was in 1st grade, adjusting his neurological pathways that perhaps result in a dumbass idea like killing a bunch of random people? I've been in this world too long to be fooled by the notion that there is a sacrificial lamb to lay on the alters to appease the liberal antigun crowd until next time. I just wonder if the prescription meds that are taken legally and looked over may contribute to the instability of some users. View Quote Yet here you are. Sure. Great idea. We'll just make this person prohibited for somethinf legal. Then this person for something else legal. Then another. And another. Say, didn't you yell at a cable company service rep back in 2006? Didn't you honk twice at a car in 2011? Yep. You're on the list. Turn in your weapons and be a good citizen. |
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Quoted: "the wittiest drivel that GD is known for"? Yet here you are. Sure. Great idea. We'll just make this person prohibited for somethinf legal. Then this person for something else legal. Then another. And another. Say, didn't you yell at a cable company service rep back in 2006? Didn't you honk twice at a car in 2011? Yep. You're on the list. Turn in your weapons and be a good citizen. View Quote Because they're too goddamn pussified and weak to take responsibility for their own safety. 50k people died to make limited constitutional government and personal liberty a reality in this country. Apparently they died for nothing. |
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People on here take Ambien and Ritalin, Adderall, etc. Antidepressants, benzos, etc. Go disarm them if that is your plan. View Quote Answer in search of a question. Let those that pass it, stack up for the raids. |
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This! So much this! We are the only country on this planet that allows Big Pharma to advertise directly to the consumer. People are self diagnosing and doctors are getting kick backs from prescribing these medications. View Quote They way doctors just throw drugs at us is troublesome. |
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Quoted: 1 in 6 to 1 in 4 of gun owners take those types meds. Yet, firearms violence is rare. Answer in search of a question. Let those that pass it, stack up for the raids. View Quote |
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This. OP apparently doesn't understand the difference between legal and illegal drugs or court adjudication. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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My son takes Focalin XR to help with ADD. It has made a huge difference in his ability to complete his assignments, do homework, etc. Nothing about this makes him dangerous. Maybe we should investigate rampant over-prescribing of SSRIs View Quote |
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The last thing that we need is people being afraid to seek treatment because they fear losing their right to buy (or keep) firearms. The result will be exactly what we have now.
The entire logic can easily be flipped to read: it's not the drugs, it's the person that pulls the trigger. Sound familier? |
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.. from possessing guns would reduce the occurrence of these mass shootings? I'm referring to the ADD meds, ambien, psychotropic and such. We all know that killers will kill. Whether with a gun or a car or a donut, but I'm talking about users of prescribe mind altering medications. Would you be pissed if it was added to the 4473? View Quote add nicotine (cigarettes, skoal, juul, chewing tobacco) and coffee and tea since it contains a mind altering substance. there are certain folks i dont want to have firearms. what method you use for determining that is beyond me. hell.. just ban all firearms, except for democrats. any democrat can purchase firearms. that will work because democrats find guns icky and wouldnt buy them. so no one would have firearms.. aint that the goal? heck .. lets do this.. to buy a firearm.. you must be a citizen. to be a citizen you must go through some government service, like the military. if you make it through that and are adjudged sane, you obtain your citizen papers and can buy firearms. only citizens can vote. and you must earn your citizenship. its not a birthright. |
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Don't forget alcohol more violent crimes are committed by persons on alcohol than any other mind altering drug.
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Medications used to treat ADD or ADHD are not associated with the sort of psychosis that causes a person to start shooting innocent people.
Let's not confuse the fart for the turd. People who are using prescription psychotropic drugs who lose their perspective and become violent are PROBABLY not doing it because of the MEDICATION, but because of the CONDITION that the medication is meant to treat. It's also known that altering the dosage or getting the dosage wrong can screw up the patient. So don't skip today's dose and the double up on tomorrow's to try to catch up! I'm not going to say that I think that you should automatically be denied firearms rights if you're diagnosed with a mental condition that requires medication. UNLESS the patient has been shown to actually have violent tendencies and is showing clear evidence of aggressive antisocial behavior. Some people are not competent to have access to firearms. We need to ensure that they DON'T, but we also need to ensure that the determination is made based on the evidence and not on some personal bias on the part of the doctor doing the diagnosis. I'd say that it'd be appropriate to include consultations with the family, friends, and coworkers of the patient to find out what they know regarding the patient's current behavior and state of mind. Let those opinions factor heavily into the decisions to follow. |
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In addition to adding stigma and possibly prevent folks seeking treatment, some of the meds used for depression, anxiety, mood stabilization or psychosis have other legitimate, non psych uses.
Many antidepressants are used for nerve pain to avoid narcotic use or to help quit smoking...heck had a few patients using it for premature ejaculation. Some mood stabilizers/bipolar meds are also anticonvulsants used to prevent migraines, used for neuropathy or fibromyalgia or help with weight lose. |
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Not an expert. But, one side effect of many SSRI’s is suicidal thoughts or even the act itself. If an SSRI can make one suicidal then why can’t one be homicidal?
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Quoted: Well... If you need antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc, I'm sorry, but you're mentally compromised. Should mentally ill people have access to firearms? It's funny how the needle moves when it effects yourself. View Quote |
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Why are we trying to find a solution for something that is statistically irrelevant is the better question? View Quote Look at how many alcohol related fatalities there are each day on highways in your state. Not good. But way more deaths than by mass shootings. Trump has lost his f’ing mind if he thinks UBC, RFL, and the crap I’m listening to a recording of him saying from earlier today is going to be acceptable to me. What the hell is a “meaningful background check”? Gun registration? I don’t think so Donny boy. How about we put some reasonable restrictions on the media for all the lies they tell? |
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Quoted: These drugs do not make you do anything. What they do is lower inhibition just like a lot of other drugs but these do it chemically to your brain changing your brain chemistry. So things you once would not do because you had your conscience holding you back or your moral compass has been modified. You could go the route of more promiscuous sex or you could do more sadistic things that you once would not do. For the same reason people act drastically different when intoxicated with alcohol same with psychotropic drugs. Combine that with a person who is already mentally unstable and you have a recipe for... well turn on the news. It may be rare that these things occur because the vast majority still have high enough inhibition but for someone with low already this just pretty much wipes out what is left. @TheImminent View Quote Good job little buddy! |
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This! So much this! We are the only country on this planet that allows Big Pharma to advertise directly to the consumer. People are self diagnosing and doctors are getting kick backs from prescribing these medications. View Quote In America, we allow patients to have a voice. In countries with medical socialism, patients are at the mercy of government which usually selects predominantly the cheapest medication. America looks for innovation. Rest of world looks to piggy back off our spending. |
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Ambian? Many Veterans are given that by the VA so we can sleep. So it’s choose sleep OR constitutional rights?
Not a good plan at all. We need to stop looking for what we can use to deprive people of rights (to pre judge). We need to look for what we can do to protect ourselves everyday. Try US wide reciprocity for carry. |
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There are so many societal issues that play a part in driving these things, I don't even know where we would start.
My kids never knew a world without smart phones, youtube, social media and the associated overwhelming amount of information being thrown at us. We have no idea how this is affecting us, let alone the kids we're trying to parent. Not to mention the fact that we have created a culture of "freedom" while removing most of the inherent responsibilities and consequences of our actions. The dissolution of the 2 parent household is just one example of this. But really, the fact is that the peace and health and security which we currently enjoy, are a very recent phenomenon. War, slavery, tyranny, famine, rape and all manner of atrocities have been the norm for all of our history. This past couple hundred years is a blip on the radar. Unfortunately, the fact is that there will always be shitty people that do shitty things. Sometimes it's the leader of a nation and sometimes its some trailer trash scumbag. The real question is; why do we give mass shootings, and "gun violence" so much more attention than any of the other tragic things that happen every single day? I believe that the reason for the increase in these events (if there really is an increase) has more to do with the answer to that question than anything else. The "mass shooting" has become the ultimate "fuck you" to society for scumbags who decide to snap for whatever reason. If cars running through crowds of people got that much attention, it would probably have the same result. What we need as a society is a fundamental change in our way of thinking. People need to realize that we choose to live in a country with a certain freedoms. The trade off is we have violence portrayed in movies, music and video games, the ability to treat each other like crap, and a shit ton of guns that aren't going anywhere. And most importantly, that there will always be a motherfucker looking to get it on. No one is responsible for our safety except ourselves. If our government and media elites really wanted to decrease these things, they would be encouraging, guiding and teaching us to take personal responsibility in all areas including personal defense. All of the neverending arguing about guns vs medications vs video games is just pissing into the wind. "But we have to do SOMETHING!" OK. Start reporting mass shootings with the same attention as a typical Chicago weekend, and remove the fear of guns by teaching the general population how to safely handle and carry them. That's "something". "Whoa! That's not what we meant!" Then fuck off. |
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