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Posted: 3/30/2018 5:34:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your point was that it's impossible. It clearly is possible with current technology, just not widely adopted (yet). Tesla is already working on semi trucks that are electrified. Your own tastes and preferences don't matter, the efficient market will dictate the direction this goes. And my guess is the market will decide ICE are ancient technology. Of course you will still be able to drive whatever the heck you want, but as the alternatives become more advanced, cheaper, and capable as the technology matures my bet is even the naysayers will get on board. If you could drive the same vehicle you drive right now, or one that looks exactly the same but cost the same or less and gets 55mpg +, has more power and reliability, would you still choose the ICE? I bet most would switch. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 5:37:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Does this mean we can have the Ford Excursion back now?
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Posted: 3/30/2018 5:42:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? They melt down quick. Manufactures have been looking at a Catalyst injection system like DEF but it is my understanding that the EPA said hell no, Cat Converters stay. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:41:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:44:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were extremely unrealistic from a technological and economical point of view. IIRC, it was done by "fleet", meaning you'd have xyz manufacturer making xxx econoboxes just to get the fleet number down. Yet, you'd be driving the cost of desirable vehicles up, since said econoboxes won't sell in many markets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:52:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have always wondered how in the hell the government has the power to mandate fuel efficiency standards. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:54:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Awesome, I want an all steel truck.
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:56:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd love to run a diesel again if they'd ditch the cow piss and exhaust filter |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:56:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a fan of this. I would rather my vehicle get 50mpg than 15mpg...but this isn't gonna ruin my life. Prius aren't going to be banned. You know that, right? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 6:57:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The standards are arbitrarily set by people who have no technical background. They mandate fuel economy and safety equipment without ever considering the trade offs in cost vs actual improvements. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:14:49 AM EDT
[#11]
These EPA fuel standards are why truck prices have gone so crazy in the past few years.
If you in the market for a truck this would be good news. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:17:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-mileage-epa-rule-20180329-story.html The Trump administration is poised to abandon America's pioneering fuel economy targets for cars and SUVs, a move that would undermine one of the world's most aggressive programs to confront climate change and invite another major confrontation with California.
The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce in the coming days that it will scrap mileage targets the Obama administration drafted in tandem with California that aim to boost average fuel economy for passenger cars and SUVs to 55 miles per gallon by 2025, according to people familiar with the plans. The agency plans to replace those targets with a weaker standard that will be unveiled soon, according to the people, who did not want to be identified discussing the plan before it was announced.  It was a political ploy from the minute it got typed up. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:19:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:22:46 AM EDT
[#14]
I wish the EPA would get the hell out of the light duty diesel truck market. Just bought a new truck wanted and could easily afford the diesel. My 16 year old diesel ridding on 35's has as much power as a brand new diesel and gets better mileage. Pretty sad when 16 years of tech lowers reliability standards , increases the cost significantly and at the same time greatly increases the odds of a catastrophic engine or emission related failure all while getting less actual mileage.
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:37:28 AM EDT
[#15]
My concern is it sounds like they aren't "doing away with" as much "doing away with the other guy's and we'll come back with some new ones". They may lower it from 55 to 50. BFD.
But yeah, emissions are why my next truck will likely be a 1 ton gasser rather than diesel. I'd prefer a diesel for the torque, but they longevity argument is gone now with all the emissions crap. The "motor" may last, but that stuff won't. I just hope we aren't in the modern day version of 1968-72 when cars were built to consume massive amounts of dead dinosaurs and atmosphere followed by the Carter years where a small block Chevy was neutered to 160hp due to emissions. Bring on the pavement rippers and for those that want to drive golf carts on the highway.....let them. Just don't make me fork over a $5,000 "subsidy" for every nut job that wants a Prius. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:42:53 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how is this going to mend fences? last I checked consumers liked more fuel efficient cars so they don't have to spend as much on gas. and not for nothing you honestly think rolling back efficiency rules is going to mend fences for all the broken promises? dream the fuck on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
More MAGA. I'm now more sure than ever that Trump is trying to mend fences with his base after the Bump Stock and Omnibus debacles. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:43:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd love to run a diesel again if they'd ditch the cow piss and exhaust filter |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:49:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? A prius does not even get 55 mpg Making a sedan do that is either impossible or extremely expensive Obama hated poor people |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:55:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Most people have no idea how such things destroy personal freedom and free markets.
EPA is the most destructive agency in our government. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:57:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd love to run a diesel again if they'd ditch the cow piss and exhaust filter Can’t get that running 16.5:1 compression I want 20:1 |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:58:00 AM EDT
[#21]
My hope is that there will be no cars available for purchase in CA
Fuck their fuckery |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 7:59:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, for the love of God, I hope this brings back V8 engines and retards the trend for small turbo engines. For people who tow a lot, you need a V8. If you need a truck for the bed, get a small engine with a turbo. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:02:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree -- Let the market decide BUT LET'S BE HONEST ABOUT IT -- take away the Govt tax credits and price subsidies on hybrids & plug-ins, and see what happens to that "huge selling point" when the TRUE additional cost of hybrids and plug-in cars must be paid out of the consumer's pocket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
High efficiency vehicles aren't going anywhere if they do this. It's a huge selling point for a massive number of consumers. Let the market decide. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:03:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? Fuck cafe standards and FBHO/GWB. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:04:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does this mean we can have the Ford Excursion back now? 
I wish that were the case. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:05:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No fucking shit! This ventless bullshit is just that, bullshit!  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When I can buy a 3 gallon flush toilets at Lowe's I'll be happy again. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:06:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That actually describes our belief differences. I believe there is a balance between regulation and the market. Where that balance lies is the true question. In this case, where the regulations end up going will determine the balance. Absence of regulation, and to an extent the law, is anarchy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're assuming that the companies would still be investing the same amount towards fuel efficiency even if there were no CAFE standards. I don't believe that would happen. They'd invest some money, of course; there are people who want to buy such cars. But if they were doing it the way the government thought they should, then there wouldn't be a CAFE standard in the first place. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:07:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think people see the big picture with fuel economy. Higher requirements force innovation to focus on compliance, which with these regs ends up being a reduction on reliance of oil. Even with US oil production increasing, moving towards a sustainable energy source (hydro is huge in the NW) insulates us from a global commodity. There was no spare tire in the trunk. Do you know why? Because they needed to shave as much weight as possible to achieve their advertised mpg rating. So, they ditched the spare tire. Such innovation, much wow. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:08:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want an all mechanical diesel. I have owned all three...mechanical, common rail, and a hybrid (VW Bosch) and the common rail is my favorite. Much simpler design and runs cleaner. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:08:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Now if they could scrap tier 4 diesel reg's. Hate buying DEF and paying for the fucking system that uses it.
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:10:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:12:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, for the love of God, I hope this brings back V8 engines and retards the trend for small turbo engines. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:13:36 AM EDT
[#33]
A rare example of MAGA.
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:15:19 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? Physics is physics and His Most Holy and Worshipful Obama can't decree physics defy itself and take it upon himself to re-write the laws of thermodynamics. But he tried. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:19:53 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:22:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Those standards were never going to be met, they were pushing for electric cars
 Now get rid of ethanol!
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:23:22 AM EDT
[#37]
The elephant in corner on "climate change" is China's and India's poor.
Something like 3 billion poor cook and make light with coal or wood. If every personal vehicle in America got 100 mpg it still wouldn't make a dent. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:24:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:26:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a fan of this. I would rather my vehicle get 50mpg than 15mpg...but this isn't gonna ruin my life. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:29:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Complexity, which means more development costs, more manufacturing costs, and more repair costs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:35:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank God. CAFE standards are death. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:36:26 AM EDT
[#42]
I dunno how true it is, but I saw a video about the new 2018 jeeps that stated Fiat/Chrysler had paid somewhere around $500 million to the government to produce the new jeeps because of their mileage.
How much does that translate into a hidden tax on a car? How much shitier do they build new cars every year because of this? You can now total out a car on a relatively minor accident. Now if a car is $20k, no big deal. If a car is $40k -$60k, now you’re talking a chunk of change. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:36:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are so many facets with this type of situation, its almost difficult to decide which direction to go. I almost boil it down to a proactive versus reactive strategy. Auto companies in general are focusing on fuel efficiency, since at the end of the day, being able to operate a vehicle at a lower cost makes them more competitive. Smaller, lighter cars are less safe than heavier, bigger cars (and trucks.) CAFE standards kill people, the thruth the leftists don't want you to know. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:37:18 AM EDT
[#44]
That's fine, but I somehow don't believe the cost of cars is going to drop 20%.
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:41:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In two pages I didn't see safety mentioned. Smaller, lighter cars are less safe than heavier, bigger cars (and trucks.) CAFE standards kill people, the thruth the leftists don't want you to know. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:43:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll have to disagree. I think we need to keep pushing manufacturers to develop more and more fuel efficient cars. Gas prices will just keep going up, and it will affect economic growth in the future. It will also affect national security as the world oil supply diminishes and we need fuel for military use. GM, Ford, Honda and all the other auto companies know that gas will be very expensive again, sooner than they would hope, might I add. So, they are already getting hybrid/plug in models ready knowing that is what is going to drive the market. If the battery storage breakthrough occurs, then all bets are off. In the future, most likely in the back half of this century, IC engines might be only driven by the wealthy....who knows? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:45:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Should have been on day one of Pruitt's term in office.
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:46:45 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A rare example of MAGA. We must be careful not to scare the MAGA, or he will frighten, and feed on our freedoms. |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:48:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curious.. what are the negatives for consumers for higher gas milage standards? How is this a win for us? |
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Posted: 3/30/2018 8:50:38 AM EDT
[#50]
If Bruce Jenner is considered a woman, why can't you consider that gas guzzler makes 50mpg?
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