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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:24:42 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really? Coming from someone who constantly accuses other people of being Russian agents? You have to be joking. When you push Russian talking points, propaganda, and all other sorts of nonsense…it fits. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:25:35 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you push Russian talking points, propaganda, and all other sorts of nonsense…it fits. And when you push America last points then questioning your allegiance…..fits. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:26:13 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia is a paper tiger how come the eastern block nato nations are spending a lot of money on weapons? Bakhmut looks flattened. I mean “liberated”. So does Marinka. Russia is indeed a threat to American interests. To your interest and the zealots who follow your cause maybe. That’s all though. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:31:16 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn’t aware 400ish tanks was “pocket change”. What has the USA contributed? Doesn’t the nasams use a variety of missiles? Tanks are literally doing absolutely nothing to advance this war. The missiles and fires are what are crucial. Europe gave a handful of NASAMS and ran the fuck out. They will do the same thing with F16 munitions. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:32:17 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia is indeed a threat to American interests. You've said this a thousand times, but have never explained what exactly those interests are. Mostly because you dont know them, they dont exist, or a little column A and a little column B. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:33:40 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tanks are literally doing absolutely nothing to advance this war. The missiles and fires are what are crucial. Europe gave a handful of NASAMS and ran the fuck out. They will do the same thing with F16 munitions. What the Uke bros won’t say or don’t understand is that F16s won’t make any difference at all without targeting support from us, either AWACS or RC135. And that makes those platforms viable targets for the Russians. Not to mention we don’t have enough A/A missiles to give them in any significant numbers without seriously degrading our own capabilities. It’s madness but it doesn’t matter to the cultists. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:36:01 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trumps not cutting anything because he won't be elected. Desantis, after he is briefed will continue aid to Ukraine because as a military man he will understand the geopolitics of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well make sure you vote for Biden then so this grift continues. I'd hate to see Trump or DeSantis be elected and cut off the unlimited funds. Trumps not cutting anything because he won't be elected. Desantis, after he is briefed will continue aid to Ukraine because as a military man he will understand the geopolitics of it.  |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:50:12 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What country was the global leader of the free world since WW2 if not us? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can either of you type the words "America first"? Just one post with those words. Absolutely America first. Where we differ is I am of the opinion that we have prospered in no small part because of our global leadership. I believe isolationism would be harmful to our standard of living. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/laugh-29.gif What country was the global leader of the free world since WW2 if not us? This isn't 1960. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 7:53:13 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grift implies some kind of scam. I won't be voting for trump, period. Desantis is open to continuing the aid. It's working and Russia is losing its genocidal war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well make sure you vote for Biden then so this grift continues. I'd hate to see Trump or DeSantis be elected and cut off the unlimited funds. Grift implies some kind of scam. I won't be voting for trump, period. Desantis is open to continuing the aid. It's working and Russia is losing its genocidal war. I asked this same question 10 pages ago. 
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Posted: 5/20/2023 8:50:22 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what the FUCK ARE YOUR QUALS to discuss the subject. Oh that is right none. Quote HistoryQuoted: So what the FUCK ARE YOUR QUALS to discuss the subject. Oh that is right none.  I would also love to hear from an expert in international relations, domestic politics, diplomacy, and so on like yourself. How does yours and Biden's desire to cuck ourselves to Russia and piss away our reputation, credibility, deterrence capability, global position, etc. enhance our strategic and economic position? How likely is it that a nation that piddles around for a year then turns its' back on an opportunity to humiliate and degrade an enemy continues to upgrade their production capability instead of burning it on the altars of DEI and ESG? Why would China believe that a nation willing to turn their back on an easy, for us, fight would lift a finger to defend Taiwan? If China does invade Taiwan wouldn't it be better for their ally Russia (and Russia's allies) to be significantly limited in their ability to assist or create trouble elsewhere in the world and limited in their espionage, propaganda, and subversions efforts because of their recent humiliation? Quoted: They have asked for more because they don't have enough of them So someone else is gifting them shooters, which is going to result in us having to give them more munitiins for them to shoot Quoted: From a strategic standing, Ukraine has absolutely no impact on the US. From a strategic component, from the manufacture of computer components to control of a strategic position with sea lines of trade, Taiwan is actually vital to US interests. To conflate the two is a demonstration of not understanding pretty much anything. Quoted: Russia focused on strategic and asymmetric capabilities in the first place, most of which have been unaffected by this war. Their hybrid concept has never placed as much attention on conventional ground fights. A lot of the problems I see consistently in the American analysis of the war is framing it thru a western lense with the same values and weights applied. Thats absolutely not how this works. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 8:51:46 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia is losing, why do the Ukrainians keep demanding/begging/asking for more advanced weaponry? I asked this same question 10 pages ago. Don’t question the approved narrative. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 9:06:03 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not, in fact, have any qualifications to discuss this subject. I also have no qualifications in microbiology and disease transmission. Thanks to experts I am now perfectly safe because I am typing this while wearing an approved face mask. I would also love to hear from an expert in international relations, domestic politics, diplomacy, and so on like yourself. How does yours and Biden's desire to cuck ourselves to Russia and piss away our reputation, credibility, deterrence capability, global position, etc. enhance our strategic and economic position? How likely is it that a nation that piddles around for a year then turns its' back on an opportunity to humiliate and degrade an enemy continues to upgrade their production capability instead of burning it on the altars of DEI and ESG? Why would China believe that a nation willing to turn their back on an easy, for us, fight would lift a finger to defend Taiwan? If China does invade Taiwan wouldn't it be better for their ally Russia (and Russia's allies) to be significantly limited in their ability to assist or create trouble elsewhere in the world and limited in their espionage, propaganda, and subversions efforts because of their recent humiliation? Presuming the F16 and western-trained pilots are more effective and efficient at using those munitions then wouldn't that shorten the war reducing the total number of munitions expended and is therefore something you should be supporting? My silly non-expert ass has always assumed that if X is strategically valuable to the enemy then denying X is strategically valuable to us. Can you please explain where I went wrong? So after this is over, one way or the other, Russia isn't going to spend an extra dime to rebuild its' conventional military and freeze it in it's current state instead? This is not going to affect their foreign aid, foreign military support, and the loss of reputation isn't going to affect their ability to recruit spies or affect international diplomacy? How would legacy F16's shorten a war defined by A2AD? Iran is an enemy also, but handing over billions of dollars and crippling certain aspects of our military for years to thwart one of their agendas unrelated to us isn't exactly beneficial for us from an ROI perspective, especially when we have worse threats on the table. You are of the misguided opinion that continued escalation of support has no negatives, as you seem to have missed posting any. The negatives involved require us to assume significant strategic risk with a tangible worst case scenario that would be felt by everyone in the world, much less every American. |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 9:38:18 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What conflict have we actually stayed and finished, and not abandoned our allies in the last 50 years? This isn't 1960. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can either of you type the words "America first"? Just one post with those words. Absolutely America first. Where we differ is I am of the opinion that we have prospered in no small part because of our global leadership. I believe isolationism would be harmful to our standard of living. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/laugh-29.gif What country was the global leader of the free world since WW2 if not us? This isn't 1960. Who took the the global leadership role if it wasn’t us? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 10:51:39 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who took the the global leadership role if it wasn't us? What conflict have we completed, victoriously, without abandoning our allies, in the last 50 years? |
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Posted: 5/20/2023 11:26:47 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tanks are literally doing absolutely nothing to advance this war. The missiles and fires are what are crucial. Europe gave a handful of NASAMS and ran the fuck out. They will do the same thing with F16 munitions. If the war ends tomorrow, the US will be on the hook for Ukrainian defense needs for decades. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:22:43 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the war ends tomorrow, the US will be on the hook for Ukrainian defense needs for decades. ...and all the countries that swapped their Soviet hardware for modern, world-class gear are also on our hook. What are we going to do now that we have so many hook-orders to fill??? This is bad news for those GD sympathizers who would give aid and comfort to Russia... or their neo-Soviet axis made up of... hehehe... Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea, and Syria ( <--- not kidding, that's really it). Even Venezuela is like "LOL, fuck these Rooskie animals!" NATO is about to become meaningless, because none of the members (including us) took advantage of Putin's fantastic folly, and fulfilled their purpose. Now is the time for any responsible nation to gun-up and start taking precautions to eliminate Kremlin influence, internally... and also cut off any path for Russian success or prosperity externally. Post-collapse, the fragments of the Russian Federation are going to suffer worse than any civilization before them... for a hundred years. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:25:02 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How would legacy F16's shorten a war defined by A2AD? Iran is an enemy also, but handing over billions of dollars and crippling certain aspects of our military for years to thwart one of their agendas unrelated to us isn't exactly beneficial for us from an ROI perspective, especially when we have worse threats on the table. You are of the misguided opinion that continued escalation of support has no negatives, as you seem to have missed posting any. The negatives involved require us to assume significant strategic risk with a tangible worst case scenario that would be felt by everyone in the world, much less every American. They will make minimal impact, if any. Unless we provide AWACS and RC135 support. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:27:58 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t question the approved narrative. Outside of Soledar and Bahkmut Russia has not made any net territorial gains since last August. In fact, they have lost ground due to the successful Ukrainian counterattacks in the Kharkiv and Kherson oblasts. Not bad for a country that many experts said would lose Kiev in three days. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:28:03 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And when you push America last points then questioning your allegiance…..fits. Please explain us how supporting Ukraines fight against a common enemy puts America last. But in a way someone without severe brain damage understands. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:30:21 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please explain us how supporting Ukraines fight against a common enemy puts America last. But in a way someone without severe brain damage understands. No thanks. I’d have more luck trying to convince ISIS that Islam is bad. You and your ilk are a cult. I’ve explained my positions enough. And when asking for something it’s probably wise not to include a personal attack. I’ve said this before- your side won. You want unlimited support to Ukraine and Biden has promised that. Go take your victory lap. But own the future, good or bad. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:31:09 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What conflict have we actually stayed and finished, and not abandoned our allies in the last 50 years? This isn't 1960. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can either of you type the words "America first"? Just one post with those words. Absolutely America first. Where we differ is I am of the opinion that we have prospered in no small part because of our global leadership. I believe isolationism would be harmful to our standard of living. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/laugh-29.gif What country was the global leader of the free world since WW2 if not us? This isn't 1960. So you want to throw up ANOTHER ally under the bus and then complain why NO ONE with more than two braincells will ever side with the US again? Seriously? YOu can't see any fault in your strategy ( besides we are finally grinding the ruswines to dust, something we wanted to do since 1946 ) |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:32:22 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will make minimal impact, if any. Unless we provide AWACS and RC135 support. What would you know about pointy nose operations? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:34:08 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would you know about pointy nose operations? According to people here, nothing. That’s cool though. 
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:35:21 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...and all the countries that swapped their Soviet hardware for modern, world-class gear are also on our hook. Those nations had that hardware simply because they lacked the means to buy more modern stuff. It wasn't like they were going to buy non STANAG'd equipment. The idea that our bilions we spend in Ukraine (to the tune of 100 million/day) will be offset in a meaningful way with FMS cases is fantasy. One, the US industrial base simply lacks this capacity and two, the Euros really didn't give that much stuff. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:36:47 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Russia is losing, why do the Ukrainians keep demanding/begging/asking for more advanced weaponry? I asked this same question 10 pages ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well make sure you vote for Biden then so this grift continues. I'd hate to see Trump or DeSantis be elected and cut off the unlimited funds. Grift implies some kind of scam. I won't be voting for trump, period. Desantis is open to continuing the aid. It's working and Russia is losing its genocidal war. I asked this same question 10 pages ago. At one point Russians were within kilometers of Kiev, how far are they pushed back now ? Do you consider being pushed away from your objective winning? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:39:13 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Answer my question. What conflict have we completed, victoriously, without abandoning our allies, in the last 50 years? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who took the the global leadership role if it wasn't us? What conflict have we completed, victoriously, without abandoning our allies, in the last 50 years? I'm sorry, are you seriously demanding an answer to a question you used when you chose not to answer my question first? 
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:39:59 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No thanks. I’d have more luck trying to convince ISIS that Islam is bad. You and your ilk are a cult. I’ve explained my positions enough. And when asking for something it’s probably wise not to include a personal attack. I’ve said this before- your side won. You want unlimited support to Ukraine and Biden has promised that. Go take your victory lap. But own the future, good or bad. You can't because it is..  Attached FileWhen you accuse others of being cultists, that would be pretty hard projection, you know. Right? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:41:46 AM EST
[#28]
Those retards are still over there killing each other by the thousands? Good. With all the tranny ‘things’ in the news cycle recently I forgot about the corrupt shithole people killing the other corrupt shithole people.
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:45:16 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can't because it is.. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Dumber-626396-187.jpg When you accuse others of being cultists, that would be pretty hard projection, you know. Right? Like I said, a cult. My offer stands- I’ll personally buy you a one way ticket to Ukraine. Let me know and we can loop a mod to help set it up. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:54:40 AM EST
[#30]
I dont really care about them getting used during this conflict.
However what happens post conflict. Slavs have a habit of selling military tech when they aren't in a conflict. So when they need to raise trillions of dollars to rebuild their country post war, who is going to buy these F16s presuming they survive? Remember, China operates F16s. And Taiwanese F16s may become Chinese F16s at some point. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 8:55:19 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At one point Russians were within kilometers of Kiev, how far are they pushed back now ? Do you consider being pushed away from your objective winning? In military science terms, the issue is more of desired end state and ability of available military forces to execute against that. Its very possible that both sides are reaching a level of culmination that will have them having to accept war termination at points far less than either of their public pronouncements will allow. In the case of Ukraine, return to the Soviet era borders, and in the Russian case, control of the Ukrainian government. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:05:51 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont really care about them getting used during this conflict. However what happens post conflict. Slavs have a habit of selling military tech when they aren't in a conflict. So when they need to raise trillions of dollars to rebuild their country post war, who is going to buy these F16s presuming they survive? Remember, China operates F16s. And Taiwanese F16s may become Chinese F16s at some point. I am very concerned about the technology we will be giving, specifically air to air missiles. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:08:10 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In military science terms, the issue is more of desired end state and ability of available military forces to execute against that. Its very possible that both sides are reaching a level of culmination that will have them having to accept war termination at points far less than either of their public pronouncements will allow. In the case of Ukraine, return to the Soviet era borders, and in the Russian case, control of the Ukrainian government. Since last August. Russia has proven themselves incapable of doing any major armored counteroffensives. They did try one in Vuldehar a few months ago only to lose 150 tanks. APCs, and trucks. Destroying the combat capabilities of two Russian brigades. In that same time period Ukraine gained back big chunks of the Kharkiv and Kherson oblasts. I'm patient enough to see if the expected Ukrainian counteroffensive is effective. Don't leave the play until the final act. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:10:07 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since last August. Russia has proven themselves incapable of doing any major armored counteroffensives. They did try one in Vuldehar a few months ago only to lose 150 tanks. APCs, and trucks. Destroying the combat capabilities of two brigades. In that same time period Ukraine gained back big chunks of the Kharkiv and Kherson oblasts. I'm patient enough to see if the expected Ukrainian counteroffensive is effective. Don't leave the play until the final act. Russia is either incompetent or a major threat worth spending unlimited treasure over. Pick one. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:12:33 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia is either incompetent or a major threat worth spending unlimited treasure over. Pick one. . No need. You can be a incompetent and still be a threat. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:13:28 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: . No need. You can be an incompetent and still be a threat. Ok they are a threat. When do we start the invasion then? Come on, why go halfway. Let’s roll to Moscow. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:16:01 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok they are a threat. When do we start the invasion then? Come on, why go halfway. Let’s roll to Moscow. Lead the way. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:17:09 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia is either incompetent or a major threat worth spending unlimited treasure over. Pick one. Where are we spending unlimited treasure? How much does Ukraine aid count amount the fed budget? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:17:22 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lead the way. There’s the spirit. Let’s take Moscow. Why the half measures? Russia is the threat of our time. Invade Russia so they can never be a threat again. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:17:50 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am very concerned about the technology we will be giving, specifically air to air missiles. Same technology we have sent to: Jordan Taiwan Germany South Korea Poland Iraq Eastern Europe and nato ? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:18:06 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said, a cult. My offer stands- I’ll personally buy you a one way ticket to Ukraine. Let me know and we can loop a mod to help set it up. LOL, as if the Ukrainians actually need manpower. Keep saying that shit, it makes you look like a *insert bad COC word here* I am sure you are at the border right now. Or in DC protesting the steal. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:18:07 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where are we spending unlimited treasure? How much does Ukraine aid count amount the fed budget? Ask your president. He said the word unlimited, not me. What does unlimited mean to you? I’m just going off your presidents words. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:19:15 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same technology we have sent to: Jordan Taiwan Germany South Korea Poland Iraq Eastern Europe and nato ? There are varying levels to any technology. Go to a car lot. You can find the exact same cars but they vary greatly in options. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:20:15 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, as if the Ukrainians actually need manpower. Keep saying that shit, it makes you look like a *insert bad COC word here* I am sure you are at the border right now. Or in DC protesting the steal. Nah, I’m on my couch. I did my time. If duty calls again, I’ll be there. Likely, you wouldn’t be. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:20:31 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask your president. He said the word unlimited, not me. What does unlimited mean to you? I’m just going off your presidents words. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where are we spending unlimited treasure? How much does Ukraine aid count amount the fed budget? Ask your president. He said the word unlimited, not me. What does unlimited mean to you? I’m just going off your presidents words. Unless you’ve renounced your citizenship, he’s your president as well, like it or not. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:21:35 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont really care about them getting used during this conflict. However what happens post conflict. Slavs have a habit of selling military tech when they aren't in a conflict. So when they need to raise trillions of dollars to rebuild their country post war, who is going to buy these F16s presuming they survive? Remember, China operates F16s. And Taiwanese F16s may become Chinese F16s at some point. It’s important the USA doesn’t cut and run post war. Look what happened with Afghanistan. Something naturally comes to make order of things. That will be nato and the eu. I think with ukraines desire to join nato and the west most of the corruption will be dealt with post war. There is going to be a huge amount of war material left over that isn’t even accounted for. There are still probably tanks that haven’t been found yet. Hoping to snag a btr or iveco  |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:21:37 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont really care about them getting used during this conflict. However what happens post conflict. Slavs have a habit of selling military tech when they aren't in a conflict. So when they need to raise trillions of dollars to rebuild their country post war, who is going to buy these F16s presuming they survive? Remember, China operates F16s. And Taiwanese F16s may become Chinese F16s at some point. you sir get  out of for that nonsense.So far Ukraine has not sold anything we gave them. Zilch. And I am pretty sure nothing more like an ATGM will ever reach the black market. And if that makes you wet your panties. Iran produces their own copy of the TOW and likely Javelin by now. And they sell them to anyone with money. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:22:31 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am very concerned about the technology we will be giving, specifically air to air missiles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I dont really care about them getting used during this conflict. However what happens post conflict. Slavs have a habit of selling military tech when they aren't in a conflict. So when they need to raise trillions of dollars to rebuild their country post war, who is going to buy these F16s presuming they survive? Remember, China operates F16s. And Taiwanese F16s may become Chinese F16s at some point. I am very concerned about the technology we will be giving, specifically air to air missiles. No, no you're not. It's all BS and we all know it. |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:22:37 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those nations had that hardware simply because they lacked the means to buy more modern stuff. It wasn't like they were going to buy non STANAG'd equipment. The idea that our bilions we spend in Ukraine (to the tune of 100 million/day) will be offset in a meaningful way with FMS cases is fantasy. One, the US industrial base simply lacks this capacity and two, the Euros really didn't give that much stuff. Where did the first heavy lethal aid come from, again? |
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Posted: 5/21/2023 9:22:47 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless you’ve renounced your citizenship, he’s your president as well, like it or not. Nope. I learned from liberals during the Trump years this lesson. Not my president. |
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