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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:17:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prob already been said but my vote is a sensor that replaces the trigger. Wiggle your finger inside the guard and it fires. No trigger press or pull. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:19:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Intent. Braces aren't intended to be fired from the shoulder. If you put a brave on a pistol with the intent of firing it from the shoulder you've created an SBR. If you happen to shoulder your braced pistol, you're golden. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:00:14 AM EDT
[#3]
It has a smooth bore, oval bore, release only trigger, barrel part of the receiver, telescoping rifled muzzle brake, telescoping telescoping buffer tube stock that's also pinned, shoots 2 bullets at a time when pulled, requires 2 pulls to fire once, muzzle loads. what else???????? Gonna be one hell of a special weird ass gun that nobody would possibly buy!!!!
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:00:16 AM EDT
[#4]
I think Franklin Armory's announcement is the greatest
 R2D2's secret mesage Ever. Lol. Maybe. Hope not. But think about the memes and rick roll opportunities |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:20:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While we're all distracted by this puzzle, the deadline for comments on the federal ruling against bumpstocks and binary triggers is looming. Go make some comments. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/12/26/2017-27898/application-of-the-definition-of-machinegun-to-bump-fire-stocks-and-other-similar-devices#open-comment |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:23:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"And" in this usage means the both the firearms would meet the definition. "Or" would mean only one "or" the other but not both. The definition is describing this and this not this or this. In the first example ANY rifle with a barrel or barrels less than 16" meets the definition. In the second example any weapon made from a rifle meets the definition only if it is not shoulder fired (that would be rifle so it must have a 16" or greater barrel) and in less than 26" in overall length. This would be arguable that you can take a rifle and cut off the stock, or put a pistol grip on it and cut the barrel to less than 16" provided it remains 26" or greater in OAL it would not be a NFA firearm. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:25:45 AM EDT
[#7]
haven't read the whole thread
could it be smooth bore for fin stabilised ammunition? like the SPIW? |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:25:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another example that would apply as an SBR would be a bullpup that is less that 26" OAL but still had a barrel 16" or greater. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:43:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That bullpup would be an SBR if it was under 26" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Another example that would apply as an SBR would be a bullpup that is less that 26" OAL but still had a barrel 16" or greater. People seem to question how in the world could a rifle could have a barrel greater than 16" but still be less than 26" OAL to still be classified as an SBR. I was merely pointing out that a bullpup could easily be designed to still be an SBR even with a 16" barrel. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:47:08 AM EDT
[#10]
It's not going to be "special" ammo.
Who's going to build it? Who's going to be willing to buy it? |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 3:08:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is literally the exact same thing I said. People seem to question how in the world could a rifle could have a barrel greater than 16" but still be less than 26" OAL to still be classified as an SBR. I was merely pointing out that a bullpup could easily be designed to still be an SBR even with a 16" barrel. If the recall article is true, they don't even have a letter from the ATF |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 3:17:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No they don't. ATF always measures with stock in the fully extended position. And they always measure barrel length with any muzzle device removed unless it's permanently attached. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And yet, the ATF always collapses the stocks before measuring OAL. And they always measure barrel length with any muzzle device removed unless it's permanently attached. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 3:20:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
haven't read the whole thread could it be smooth bore for fin stabilised ammunition? like the SPIW? Besides, who wants an AR that sounds like "SPIW SPIW SPIW" when they shoot it. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 5:21:08 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 1/13/2018 5:41:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10.5 inch rifled barrel 5.5 inch permanently attached telescoping muzzle device = 16 inches in the extended configuration. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 5:42:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Gyrojet_at_National_Firearms_Museum_%28460776909%29.jpg/1200px-Gyrojet_at_National_Firearms_Museum_%28460776909%29.jpg http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gyrojet-cover.jpg http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/GyroJetCartridge.jpg 
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Posted: 1/13/2018 7:04:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why the hell do people like this attorney use stupid comments like "loophole"? It's either legal, or it's not. Next, the Recoil attorney will be speaking about the "gun show loophole".  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Next, the Recoil attorney will be speaking about the "gun show loophole". |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 8:42:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Gyrojet_at_National_Firearms_Museum_%28460776909%29.jpg/1200px-Gyrojet_at_National_Firearms_Museum_%28460776909%29.jpg http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gyrojet-cover.jpg http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/GyroJetCartridge.jpg |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 9:10:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Is this going to be a pin and welded barrel extension, like the Larue SURG surly not a first but would pass NFA and be a SBR like appearance.
The picture in their press release the pic is of their current Libertas sbr so it has me thinking the Restoration might look much differently and all the speculation is based on a invalid photo. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 9:32:12 AM EDT
[#20]
I give up! |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 9:38:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this going to be a pin and welded barrel extension, like the Larue SURG surly not a first but would pass NFA and be a SBR like appearance. The picture in their press release the pic is of their current Libertas sbr so it has me thinking the Restoration might look much differently and all the speculation is based on a invalid photo. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 9:53:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Gotta be the trigger.
https://youtu.be/51DqMVGSZXM |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:00:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Maybe they just ship it with a certificate stating that the employee who assembled it intended for it to be fired with one hand.
After all, the intent during design and construction is the only thing that keeps a pistol with a brace from being an SBR |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:00:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotta be the trigger. https://youtu.be/51DqMVGSZXM |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:24:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone posted earlier that Franklin has said, it is not the trigger system. A new-ish, low post count, member who reads more than he "contributes".
Link to the post; with summary of what we "know". ^^^ Oooooh, I know how to hotlink too. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:38:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Have we done this one?
ATF definitions in shorthand: shotgun: shoulder fired and uses shotgun shell and smooth bore and fires (shot or single projectile) for each single pull rifle: shoulder fired and single projectile through rifled bore for each single pull sbr: rifle < 16" or made from a rifle with oal < 26 or barrel(s) < 16 sbs: shotgun < 18" or made from a shotgun with oal < 26" or barrel(s) < 18" aow: capable of being concealed on the person or (smooth bore pistol and shot shell) or combo shotgun / rifle 12" - 18". Does not include rifled pistol Not a smooth bore = not a shotgun Fires shot shells = not a rifle Not a rifle = not an SBR Not a shotgun = not an SBS 26" = not an AOW It's a .410. Possibly capable of but not designed to  fire some flavor of .45?
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:47:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have we done this one? ATF definitions in shorthand: shotgun: shoulder fired and uses shotgun shell and smooth bore and fires (shot or single projectile) for each single pull rifle: shoulder fired and single projectile through rifled bore for each single pull sbr: rifle < 16" or made from a rifle with oal < 26 or barrel(s) < 16 sbs: shotgun < 18" or made from a shotgun with oal < 26" or barrel(s) < 18" aow: capable of being concealed on the person or (smooth bore pistol and shot shell) or combo shotgun / rifle 12" - 18". Does not include rifled pistol Not a smooth bore = not a shotgun Fires shot shells = not a rifle Not a rifle = not an SBR Not a shotgun = not an SBS 26" = not an AOW It's a .410. Possibly capable of but not designed to fire some flavor of .45?Personally, I like “The Senator” or maybe even “The City Councilman” |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:49:49 AM EDT
[#28]
I'm still thinking that it's a loophole that has been there all along.
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Posted: 1/13/2018 10:54:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe they just ship it with a certificate stating that the employee who assembled it intended for it to be fired with one hand. After all, the intent during design and construction is the only thing that keeps a pistol with a brace from being an SBR
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Posted: 1/13/2018 11:06:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm still thinking that it's a loophole that has been there all along. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 11:13:50 AM EDT
[#31]
They're calling it the reformation, perhaps this year at shot show they are going to announce that the SBR NFA rules are going away.
A guy can dream right |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 11:30:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this going to be a pin and welded barrel extension, like the Larue SURG surly not a first but would pass NFA and be a SBR like appearance. The picture in their press release the pic is of their current Libertas sbr so it has me thinking the Restoration might look much differently and all the speculation is based on a invalid photo. That seems par the course, somehow... |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 11:35:34 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What in tarnation is a "smooth bore rifle", when a rifle's key designating feature is its rifling? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You do realize there are smooth bore rifles, don't you? Nothing new and not classified as shotguns. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 11:51:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Wake me up when shot show starts
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Posted: 1/13/2018 12:26:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have we done this one? ATF definitions in shorthand: shotgun: shoulder fired and uses shotgun shell and smooth bore and fires (shot or single projectile) for each single pull rifle: shoulder fired and single projectile through rifled bore for each single pull sbr: rifle < 16" or made from a rifle with oal < 26 or barrel(s) < 16 sbs: shotgun < 18" or made from a shotgun with oal < 26" or barrel(s) < 18" aow: capable of being concealed on the person or (smooth bore pistol and shot shell) or combo shotgun / rifle 12" - 18". Does not include rifled pistol Not a smooth bore = not a shotgun Fires shot shells = not a rifle Not a rifle = not an SBR Not a shotgun = not an SBS 26" = not an AOW It's a .410. Possibly capable of but not designed to fire some flavor of .45?I wouldn't mind a magazine fed 45/70 sbr for HD 
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Posted: 1/13/2018 12:36:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt that's it but if it was I would imagine that .444 marlin or 45/70 would work in it also... I wouldn't mind a magazine fed 45/70 sbr for HD Hmmmm.... |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 12:45:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
haven't read the whole thread could it be smooth bore for fin stabilised ammunition? like the SPIW? ........
Where is a small company like Franklin Armory going to get the resources to develop okay bites or fin stabilized bullets? |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 12:48:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They do sell .450BM products. Hmmmm.... |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 12:58:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... And they don't run very well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They do sell .450BM products. Hmmmm.... Also, magazine selection is very important with the .450BM. ACS 5rd mags are all I use. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:08:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love how every page of is thread is essentially the same, with people suggesting the same three or four suggestions over and over and over again.  |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:16:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, it’s been so fun wading through all the bullshit Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love how every page of is thread is essentially the same, with people suggesting the same three or four suggestions over and over and over again.
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:21:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey I read the whole thread and I'm pretty sure my theory was original, here on page 20 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love how every page of is thread is essentially the same, with people suggesting the same three or four suggestions over and over and over again. Second would be the one that the SL stock has a strap on it and is considered a brace. I will have zero interest in this if it is only applicable to this specific firearm that they’ll probably want $1800-2000 for. And I fully expect to be disappointed. |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:32:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will have zero interest in this if it is only applicable to this specific firearm that they’ll probably want $1800-2000 for. And I fully expect to be disappointed. Also expecting disappointment, but we'll see |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt that's it but if it was I would imagine that .444 marlin or 45/70 would work in it also... I wouldn't mind a magazine fed 45/70 sbr for HD Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have we done this one? ATF definitions in shorthand: shotgun: shoulder fired and uses shotgun shell and smooth bore and fires (shot or single projectile) for each single pull rifle: shoulder fired and single projectile through rifled bore for each single pull sbr: rifle < 16" or made from a rifle with oal < 26 or barrel(s) < 16 sbs: shotgun < 18" or made from a shotgun with oal < 26" or barrel(s) < 18" aow: capable of being concealed on the person or (smooth bore pistol and shot shell) or combo shotgun / rifle 12" - 18". Does not include rifled pistol Not a smooth bore = not a shotgun Fires shot shells = not a rifle Not a rifle = not an SBR Not a shotgun = not an SBS 26" = not an AOW It's a .410. Possibly capable of but not designed to fire some flavor of .45?I wouldn't mind a magazine fed 45/70 sbr for HD |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 1:37:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wake me up when shot show starts |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:11:38 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:25:40 PM EDT
[#47]
How's about a double telescoping butt stock to extend beyond 26" OAL? I do know that I'm going to wait until after the ShotShow to file my form 1 SBR.
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:43:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Regardless of what it ends up being, I expect to be underwhelmed. Owning both SBRs and pistols with braces, it would have to be something pretty special to get me to buy it.
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Posted: 1/13/2018 2:54:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote History |
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Posted: 1/13/2018 3:06:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote History |
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