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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:34:35 AM EDT
[#1]
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One side believes in saints that are actually just renamed pagan gods that were created to help unite Rome back in the day. Other side doesn't believe in pagan gods. My own observation is that Protestants worship Jesus Christ, and Catholics worship his mom. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:35:20 AM EDT
[#2]
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One sentance?.. sure: Protestants do not believe that the Pope is God's mouthpiece, interpreter and rule maker. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:37:06 AM EDT
[#3]
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I'm sure they are putting up new buildings there even to this day. The founding of the Catholic church was never on whatever day somebody got to Rome. The Catholic church was founded on Pentacost. The day 50 days after his resurrection that Christ breathed on the Apostles and sent them forth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Oh, they named the building after him? Well then, by that line of reasoning Peter was also in Alabama. Who knew? You are aware that St. Peter's Basilica was built in the 1500s? The founding of the Catholic church was never on whatever day somebody got to Rome. The Catholic church was founded on Pentacost. The day 50 days after his resurrection that Christ breathed on the Apostles and sent them forth. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:37:13 AM EDT
[#4]
I find it amusing that there was a really bad schism between Christians back in the day all over the disagreement about whether Jesus was God or whether he was simply the son of God (but still divine and holy). Seriously stupid interpretive shit that people were persecuted and killed over.
While obviously not as extreme, I find the division between Catholics and non Catholic Christians amusing as well. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:41:26 AM EDT
[#5]
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Catholics do not believe the Pope is God’s mouthpiece. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One sentance?.. sure: Protestants do not believe that the Pope is God's mouthpiece, interpreter and rule maker. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:42:52 AM EDT
[#6]
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I am in fact not Christian, but am well acquainted with the history. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:44:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Obvious answer is obvious.
Choice of demigod. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:45:45 AM EDT
[#8]
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Sure. But Catholics tend to claim a special place in Church lineage. If you have an issue with that, your beef is with them, not me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: You are of course aware that the Coptic Church pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church? And that Paul brought Christianity to Rome and wasn't one of those 12. The Coptic Church would have started around a decade or so before that. Trying to claim some supremacy of the Coptic Church due to age. Christ started the Church. Can you agree? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:48:18 AM EDT
[#9]
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This. My own observation is that Protestants worship Jesus Christ, and Catholics worship his mom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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One side believes in saints that are actually just renamed pagan gods that were created to help unite Rome back in the day. Other side doesn't believe in pagan gods. My own observation is that Protestants worship Jesus Christ, and Catholics worship his mom. We do worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity. We do not worship Mary. We do ask for her to pray for us as we do all the saints or as you would ask your family to pray for you. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:48:52 AM EDT
[#10]
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Your opinion on Peter's travels to Rome (which you have no support for) have nothing to do with the founding of the Church and your claim to be acquainted with its' history is showing by trying to espouse the Coptic Church. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:51:26 AM EDT
[#11]
IBTL
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:51:58 AM EDT
[#12]
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Your claim to an understanding of Church history is lacking. We do believe that the Church descended directly from Christ through his apostles. I believe that and the Church has always taught that. Your attempts to create some counter-religion are wanting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: You are of course aware that the Coptic Church pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church? And that Paul brought Christianity to Rome and wasn't one of those 12. The Coptic Church would have started around a decade or so before that. Trying to claim some supremacy of the Coptic Church due to age. Christ started the Church. Can you agree? Think about that for a moment. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:53:09 AM EDT
[#13]
I don't believe in organized religion, so go figure.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 1:56:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Paul was the apostle to the Gentile. Romans 11:13
With that said, the whole construct of the topic leads to the erroneous bias that there is a difference between Catholics and Christians. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:01:27 AM EDT
[#15]
The term "Christian" has almost become meaningless. That is evident in General Discussion threads on a regular basis. The only Jesus who can save sinners is the Jesus of the scriptures.
Many religions attempt to co-opt Jesus into their group, but their Jesus doesn't match the Jesus of the Bible. Religions seek power, wealth, influence ... they try to accomplish this by making their leaders gate keepers to God. They claim to be the one, true religion. The simple fact of the matter is, God desires fellowship with man, but our sins get in the way. The Word - Jesus Christ - God manifest in the flesh - went to the cross bearing the sins of every man. He paid for them all. Jesus died for our sins, wars buried and rose again. Those who trust Jesus have their sins forgiven. When you start trying to add your righteousness into the equation - by acts you do, or don't do - you are not trusting Jesus alone, you are adding yourself into the mix. Trusting Jesus Christ =/= trusting any religion, whether it calls itself Christian or not. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:02:28 AM EDT
[#16]
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It's not my opinion on Peter's travels, it's the Bible's opinion. The Bible that was canonized by the Catholic Church. There is no evidence whatsoever. Only apocryphal texts who's authorship claims were so dubious that they could not be included in the canon. Do you not understand that if those texts could have withstood any scrutiny they would have been eagerly canonized by Rome? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:02:33 AM EDT
[#17]
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Butthurt bible thumpers on here like to scream that Catholics are not Christian when some of these threads come up. Its funny to see the same snowflakes get offend in other threads when people talk bluntly about their favorite brand of mythology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All Catholics are Christians. Not all Christians are Catholic. Its funny to see the same snowflakes get offend in other threads when people talk bluntly about their favorite brand of mythology. The Catholic Church isn't exactly the most up and up organization (Earth isn't the center of the solar system like they've affirmed for centuries, they put their reputation over raped children and still protect documents related to their cover-up, etc.). Protestantism doesn't really make sense without a literal Genesis. How would you even know what to take literal or not? Orthodox believe in the "Holy Fire" miracle every year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fire. Scroll down to Criticism. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:05:46 AM EDT
[#18]
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You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth here. You're saying that you do not believe that the Church descended directly from Christ through his apostles, yet you cling to this dubious claim that Peter traveled to Rome, with literally no evidence, because it is important to you for some reason that it was Peter, not Paul, that established the Church in Rome. Think about that for a moment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: You are of course aware that the Coptic Church pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church? And that Paul brought Christianity to Rome and wasn't one of those 12. The Coptic Church would have started around a decade or so before that. Trying to claim some supremacy of the Coptic Church due to age. Christ started the Church. Can you agree? Think about that for a moment. You claim the Church started in Rome in 45 AD with Paul. I claim the Church started with Christ in Israel with his disciples and spread from there through his apostles. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:06:34 AM EDT
[#19]
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The Bible wasn't written to document Peter's travels and you shouldn't expect that is was - it's not written as an historical text. There are many historic texts that document events that are not canonized scripture and it doesn't invalidate their truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. If you believe the former, then the latter can not be important to you. Which is it? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:08:11 AM EDT
[#20]
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No, you are completely misstating my post. Do you have trouble understanding English? You claim the Church started in Rome in 45 AD with Paul. I claim the Church started with Christ in Israel with his disciples and spread from there through his apostles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: You are of course aware that the Coptic Church pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church? And that Paul brought Christianity to Rome and wasn't one of those 12. The Coptic Church would have started around a decade or so before that. Trying to claim some supremacy of the Coptic Church due to age. Christ started the Church. Can you agree? Think about that for a moment. You claim the Church started in Rome in 45 AD with Paul. I claim the Church started with Christ in Israel with his disciples and spread from there through his apostles. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:08:46 AM EDT
[#21]
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You are aware that St. Peter's Basilica was built in the 1500s? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:09:48 AM EDT
[#22]
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Why is this issue important to you? You just said earlier that Christ didn't pass down the Church through his Apostles. Yes, you very much want to establish Peter in Rome. If you believe the former, then the latter can not be important to you. Which is it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. If you believe the former, then the latter can not be important to you. Which is it? You are trolling. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:11:17 AM EDT
[#23]
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Google much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You are aware that St. Peter's Basilica was built in the 1500s? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:13:03 AM EDT
[#24]
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Show me where I said that? You are trolling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. If you believe the former, then the latter can not be important to you. Which is it? You are trolling. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:14:40 AM EDT
[#25]
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I'm an atheist, but Catholics are Christians. For 3/4 the time Christianity has existed, they've been the only Christians. That's like saying that people in England don't speak English. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:15:57 AM EDT
[#26]
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I stand corrected. I mis-read one of your earlier posts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. Nor is the idea that the Church in Rome was founded by one of the original twelve apostles. It was not. It was founded by Paul. Just trying to keep the facts straight. Without arguing whether Peter was in Rome, I would hope we can agree that Christ started the Church. None of the books that the Catholics decided to canonize claim that Peter was ever in Rome. That's not my call, that's theirs. Only some non-canon apocryphal texts make the claim. From my study of it, I think it very unlikely that Peter ever visited Rome. In fact, I don't think he ever left the Middle East. The Church was started by Christ and spread to the world through his apostles. This is what the Church believes and teaches. If you believe the former, then the latter can not be important to you. Which is it? You are trolling. Take care. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:23:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Both believe that a being created the entire universe, but one group thinks they can impress said inventor of life and all things known through their good works, while the other understands that we are saved through His grace alone.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:38:55 AM EDT
[#28]
One uses a state approved Bible.
Catholics can trace the leadership of their Church to Jesus Christ, our savior. Txl |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:43:12 AM EDT
[#29]
I'll go with transubstantiation and the belief that Mary maintained her virgin innocence her whole life.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:45:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Catholics Invented Christianity. Jesus would have been another messiah in the pile if not for Paul and what happened in Rome after the fact.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 2:51:59 AM EDT
[#31]
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I find it amusing that there was a really bad schism between Christians back in the day all over the disagreement about whether Jesus was God or whether he was simply the son of God (but still divine and holy). Seriously stupid interpretive shit that people were persecuted and killed over. I attended Calvin college for a bit during my faith crisis. It actually helped clarify things. Luther wanted Servetus burned too. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 3:04:58 AM EDT
[#32]
You want the Reformation summed up in one sentence.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:15:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that exactly what they believe with respect to the Pope speaking ex catherdra? Not a very good one but Catholic nonetheless. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:23:23 AM EDT
[#34]
Catholic is the original Christian church, everyone else is made by man.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:25:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Faith vs. Works.
Or Scripture alone, Faith alone, Grace alone. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:25:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Catholics prefer diddling little boys, christians will take either.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:25:52 AM EDT
[#37]
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Catholic is the original Christian church, everyone else is made by man. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:27:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Who cares? The Eastern Orthodox church is the only real Christian church.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 4:28:51 AM EDT
[#39]
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I want GDs version on this. Thanks. Tradition vs the Bible. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:04:18 AM EDT
[#40]
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Catholics believe that Jesus started a church while here on earth with the 12 apostles. He duly informed them, blessed them with the power of the Holy Spirit, and sent them forth with a mission. Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12. I like how the Catholics like to claim the 12 apostles WHO WERE JEWISH and kept the Jewish faith along with Jesus. They were JEWISH not Catholic and taught and held all the traditions and practices of the Jewish faith. The Catholic Church came later. Today, we would call them Messianic Jews....... Jews that believe in Jesus as the Son of God and not just a prophet. The twelve apostles did go forth with a mission and it was corrupted over time. When you say " Every other Christian church was started by someone else who was not one of those 12." You could not be more wrong. That statement is laughable. The Catholic Church and many others are off shoots of the original Christian faith. Non of the Apostles were Catholic. None of the Apostles kept the Sabbath on the pagan Sunday. None of them took communion in the manner the Catholics do. None of them called any man holy. None of them knelt before a Pope and kissed a ring. None of them celebrated Christmas. etc. etc. They were Jews and kept the customs and practices of the Jews. Period. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:05:32 AM EDT
[#41]
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Catholic is the original Christian church, everyone else is made by man. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:05:55 AM EDT
[#42]
They have different hats.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:40:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Protestants don't think the Pope be like it is, but it do?
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Posted: 1/9/2018 5:40:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Catholics are still part of a feudal system.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:03:28 AM EDT
[#45]
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Jesus would have been another messiah in the pile if not for Paul and what happened in Rome after the fact. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:10:56 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:21:12 AM EDT
[#47]
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All Catholics are Christians. Not all Christians are Catholic. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 7:11:17 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 1/9/2018 7:26:22 AM EDT
[#49]
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Catholics are the only Christians. You're welcome.  You Catholics got plenty of skeletons in your closet that’s true but you don’t hold the patent on being Christians. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 7:40:27 AM EDT
[#50]
One traces roots to JC.
The others have roots to governments, tax loop holes, carnies, and a pissed off monk. 
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