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Posted: 11/11/2023 1:42:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Larue  Not hating or jumping in, I own both. I just knew there would be mention of those two or ML... |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 1:46:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heckler and Koch were once the standard of comparison for tactical style firearms at least, and it seems like they are now rapidly approaching the point of insignificance on the civilian market. Idk if I’d agree with that. H&K were never that much into civilian sales. When they finally got into them, they were hindered by US import and German export laws. They have remained pretty relevant with their pistols that continue to evolve but aren’t revolutionary. Their military lines still see significant advancements (hk433, 416, mp7, etc) |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:00:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Who remember Sabre Defense.
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:02:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Idk if I’d agree with that. H&K were never that much into civilian sales. When they finally got into them, they were hindered by US import and German export laws. They have remained pretty relevant with their pistols that continue to evolve but aren’t revolutionary. Their military lines still see significant advancements (hk433, 416, mp7, etc) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Heckler and Koch were once the standard of comparison for tactical style firearms at least, and it seems like they are now rapidly approaching the point of insignificance on the civilian market. Idk if I’d agree with that. H&K were never that much into civilian sales. When they finally got into them, they were hindered by US import and German export laws. They have remained pretty relevant with their pistols that continue to evolve but aren’t revolutionary. Their military lines still see significant advancements (hk433, 416, mp7, etc) If anything, they are more relevant. The 416 has seen a bunch of large contracts and you can actually buy non-neutered stuff on the civilian side. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:04:22 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:04:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who remember Sabre Defense. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:05:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't they get rolled up for some sort of export violations? Yes they did.. I have one of the old pencil barrels. Maybe the most accurate AR i have... Thing is a SHOOTER. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:06:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who remember Sabre Defense. I have one of their lowers. Didn’t they get busted? |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:07:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Colt war shooters
Cav Arms R Guns |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:08:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been thinking about some of the manufacturers that were big in the AR market that have faded into relative obscurity. People like DPMS, RRA, etc. Those guys are still around, and they have nice stuff as I saw at the recent Gunstock expo. Here's what I think a lot of you are failing to consider: The AR market was TINY around that time. ARs were somewhat "exotic" and the small-ish market simply didn't support that many players. The popularity of the AR exploded and a ton of people got in on the action with good quality stuff, diluting - but not eliminating - some of the older guys. That doesn't just apply to gun makers, but accessory makers. There were a few casualties along the way for sure, but it's just a different playground now than it was 20 years ago. This is the truth. Remember when the choice of optics were aimpoint or acog. Then eotech came along. If you didn’t want to spend big money on one of them the alternatives were pretty much trash. There weren’t a lot of mid tier choices out there. I can remember going to a range and people were kind of wow’d by my AR. Was it Olympic that made the cast ARs? I remember a buddy of mine buying one of them and making fun of him for it. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:08:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes they did.. I have one of the old pencil barrels. Maybe the most accurate AR i have... Thing is a SHOOTER. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn't they get rolled up for some sort of export violations? Yes they did.. I have one of the old pencil barrels. Maybe the most accurate AR i have... Thing is a SHOOTER. Their website is still up. “Available winter 2004” http://www.sabredefence.com/html/weapons.html |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:09:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was wondering when them or Noveske would be mentioned. Not hating or jumping in, I own both. I just knew there would be mention of those two or ML... I would say Larue's still relevant for the (fantastic) triggers than for anything else they make nowadays. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:11:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have one of their lowers. Didn’t they get busted? They did for some atf violations. It was a cool company that had gotten some m16a4 and other machinegun contracts from the military. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 2:12:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: USFA after releasing that turd of a gun called the Zip-22 To think they converted their whole line for that shit. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 3:06:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Were Ehrebpreuss shotguns actually made by Husqvarna? Yes. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 3:44:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To think they converted their whole line for that shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: USFA after releasing that turd of a gun called the Zip-22 To think they converted their whole line for that shit. Yeah that was a really depressing demise to a company known for the highest quality single action revolvers ever made |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 3:50:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was a "gun guy" for decades before I ever wanted or knew anything about an AR. It wasn't until the early 2010s that I became interested. In my AO before that time, they were definitely seen as a "niche" gun. And to be honest, most gun people I knew looked upon them with disdain. I think 9/11 and FBHO REALLY helped start turning them mainstream. I held my first AR in the early 90s and thinking "this is a space gun, so exotic!"
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Posted: 11/11/2023 3:51:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Calvary Arms and their plastic lowers.
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Posted: 11/11/2023 4:21:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I held my first AR in the early 90s and thinking "this is a space gun, so exotic!" Space gun was an XP-100 in the 60s. 
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Posted: 11/11/2023 4:23:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Almost all of them.
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Posted: 11/11/2023 4:39:15 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm way late to this thread but... ABC man, ABC.
Armalite Bushmaster Colt It's both a truly fascinating and truly saddening thing to analyze and discuss. The absolute gold standard of the day is entirely irrelevant in the current marketplace. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 5:12:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My first thought as well. (Goes to admire my Bushmaster SBR, first Form I gun I ever made) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is Remington making anything anymore? I didn't think the factories were up and going anymore. Bushmaster. Use to be one of the Big Three. A go to company for the AR user. (Goes to admire my Bushmaster SBR, first Form I gun I ever made) |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 5:16:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quite a few classic British gunmakers are out of business, or only exist as a brand name applied to Turkish firearms.
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Posted: 11/11/2023 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Leupold.
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Posted: 11/11/2023 5:37:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Winchester” is just a trademarked name that is whored out by Olin Corp. to whomever wants to market guns or Chinese junk under that once prestigious name. Yes in a way, I understand why folks might feel like this but there is some great craftmanship and quality in the Japan made Winchesters . Pretty hard to justify the prices but historically the top end Winchesters were generally pretty pricey . If you look at Colt over the years they generally were always aimed at big government and selling to the general public was something they only concentrated on between wars when they were bored. To answer the OPs original question , pretty much any gun company located in the Connecticut river valley . Kind of makes me sick to think about it . |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 5:47:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Came to post this. At one point I went with my gunshop owning buddy up to Hartford and he bought a couple dozen guns and got a late afternoon factory tour by one of the managers. They proudly showed us the prototype of that zip whatever mess . It was crazy to be standing there surrounded by all the classic guns and then looking at that plastic POS (that they sold but never got it running ) Modern new factory that they built after they moved out of their rental space in the old Colt building . Brand new factory with modern CNCs run by a bunch of young pups and a mess of older guys (mostly hired away from Colt, Marlin and winchester )that they had doing the hand work of fitting , finish work and fitting grips |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 6:05:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Leupold. Leupold is the Remington of optics. Fudd everything, unless your .gov, then its $$$$. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 6:10:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who remember Sabre Defense. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 6:42:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the truth. Remember when the choice of optics were aimpoint or acog. Then eotech came along. If you didn’t want to spend big money on one of them the alternatives were pretty much trash. There weren’t a lot of mid tier choices out there. I can remember going to a range and people were kind of wow’d by my AR. Was it Olympic that made the cast ARs? I remember a buddy of mine buying one of them and making fun of him for it. Never seen one by Oly, but a local shop just DID have one of the old cast DPMS guns in. Talk about UGLY! Glad they sold it before I decided I needed that abomination. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 6:46:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone already posted it but I was going to say H&R. Made a shit ton of guns for civvies as well as .mil (Reising SMG, Garand, FAL, M14, and M16A1). I have had a couple old H&R that while they weren't the finest of the fine, were good quality, serviceable field guns. I was thinking the other day, if Nodak/Palmetto owns the roll mark for H&R AR-15s, could they bring back single shots, pump shotguns, and rimfires under the H&R name? If you got close enough to the Chinese shotgun prices, you'd pull part of the market. That only popped into my head because I need a dedicated jon boat duck gun that I don't have to worry about abusing, and I don't buy Turk or Chinese guns. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 6:47:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Stevens Arms. Introduced the .22 lr. In WWI they were bought by Westinghouse to produce Mosin Nagants and then they were bought by Savage and produced as Savage/Stevens for a long time and now Savage got rid of the Indian in their logo and I guess Stevens was shuffled out of the name and paperwork.
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Posted: 11/11/2023 6:53:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Name ONE "Winchester" branded firearm that is made in China. I bet you cannot. That said, ever since the plant in New Haven closed down, the Winchester branded products are made by FN in S. Carolina, or by contract in Japan. NOTHING firearm related with the Winchester name is make in China. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: “Winchester” is just a trademarked name that is whored out by Olin Corp. to whomever wants to market guns or Chinese junk under that once prestigious name. Name ONE "Winchester" branded firearm that is made in China. I bet you cannot. That said, ever since the plant in New Haven closed down, the Winchester branded products are made by FN in S. Carolina, or by contract in Japan. NOTHING firearm related with the Winchester name is make in China. They have a shotgun made in Turkey. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 7:01:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Remington
Colt Browning Larue There are many more. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 7:14:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I read the thread title I thought Colt, but Remington is a close second. Between Savage, Ruger, and Tikka why would anyone buy a Remington. For shotguns I have always preferred Mossberg over Remington anyways. But, back in the day when I was 25 years younger and living in upstate NY, the 870 and highly desirable 1100s were kings with the Model 700 being on top for rifles. Not at all today. One of my regrets is not buying a new Ithaca Model 37 pump action shotgun. Friend of mine had one and he would let me use it to hunt pheasants. What a great shotgun. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 8:24:09 PM EDT
[#35]
JP Rifles
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:00:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Idk if I’d agree with that. H&K were never that much into civilian sales. When they finally got into them, they were hindered by US import and German export laws. They have remained pretty relevant with their pistols that continue to evolve but aren’t revolutionary. Their military lines still see significant advancements (hk433, 416, mp7, etc) They don't make anything unique or to noticeably higher standards anymore like they did in their heyday. They're living off their past reputation and some military contracts that are small compared to those in the Cold War era. Give it 10 more years and they'll be a footnote outside of sales to European militaries and a bunch cool guy units. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:04:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Larue 
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:11:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Has anyone said Fuck Troy? They are so irrelevant people even forgot to mention them in the irrelevant thread!
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:14:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Olympic.
PWA. Hesse. SGW. There's a bunch of AR-15 manufacturers that were the shit for maybe a couple of years then poofed. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:20:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who remember Sabre Defense. Pepperidge farms remembers. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:21:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Magpul still makes the best AR mags by far But they're not metal |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:28:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't make anything unique or to noticeably higher standards anymore like they did in their heyday. They're living off their past reputation and some military contracts that are small compared to those in the Cold War era. Give it 10 more years and they'll be a footnote outside of sales to European militaries and a bunch cool guy units. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Idk if I’d agree with that. H&K were never that much into civilian sales. When they finally got into them, they were hindered by US import and German export laws. They have remained pretty relevant with their pistols that continue to evolve but aren’t revolutionary. Their military lines still see significant advancements (hk433, 416, mp7, etc) They don't make anything unique or to noticeably higher standards anymore like they did in their heyday. They're living off their past reputation and some military contracts that are small compared to those in the Cold War era. Give it 10 more years and they'll be a footnote outside of sales to European militaries and a bunch cool guy units. I don’t know what their contract numbers were during the Cold War, but the 416 is sitting around 400k for total orders. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:29:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As far as I know they fired up the 870 line again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is Remington making anything anymore? I didn't think the factories were up and going anymore. Bushmaster. Use to be one of the Big Three. A go to company for the AR user. As far as I know they fired up the 870 line again. They have almost the full line back up: 870,V3,1100,700, and 783. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:31:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Winchester
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:31:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is Remington making anything anymore? I didn't think the factories were up and going anymore. Bushmaster. Use to be one of the Big Three. A go to company for the AR user. They are still making guns in Ilion. Adding models and trim levels as they go. Supposed to building a huge facility in the South. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:32:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Winchester. Classic American rifles sold by tradition and nostalgia, made in Japan by people who can never own one. Miroku builds some awesome guns. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:35:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate to say it, because I still think the model 70 is an objectively better action than the 700 and always will be, but Winchester/Browning are pretty irrelevant to anyone but a certain group of hunters who still think A Bolts are something special and not just shiny turds with gold triggers. They remind me of Harley owners. The only thing keeping Browning relevant at all is their sporting shotguns, IMO. Not because they're the best or anything particularly special but they fill a niche of shotgun demand that no one else really does, particularly to the extent that they do. ETA: I really like the Browning rain jacket I bought this year Another similarity with HD. I wonder how much revenue share Browning gets from branded clothing compared to firearms.I like my $700 XBolt Speed. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:37:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Glenfield
Revelation Bannerman's |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:38:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I read the thread title I thought Colt, but Remington is a close second. Between Savage, Ruger, and Tikka why would anyone buy a Remington. For shotguns I have always preferred Mossberg over Remington anyways. But, back in the day when I was 25 years younger and living in upstate NY, the 870 and highly desirable 1100s were kings with the Model 700 being on top for rifles. Not at all today. I just bought a Remington 7600 pump. No one else makes one like that. Fuck Troy. |
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Posted: 11/11/2023 9:40:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have a shotgun made in Turkey. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: “Winchester” is just a trademarked name that is whored out by Olin Corp. to whomever wants to market guns or Chinese junk under that once prestigious name. Name ONE "Winchester" branded firearm that is made in China. I bet you cannot. That said, ever since the plant in New Haven closed down, the Winchester branded products are made by FN in S. Carolina, or by contract in Japan. NOTHING firearm related with the Winchester name is make in China. They have a shotgun made in Turkey. They are also making 101s in Belgium (assembled in Portugal). The Model 70s are made in Portugal. |
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