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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:42:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha, it's a Ford! LOL - versus a Fiat/Chrysler - really? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:45:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: KOH/Baja/large trucks/military/etc...are highly modified and/or one-off custom designs designed for the specific application. You can't fairly compare them to a mass-produced production vehicle marketed to soccer moms. My last 4 DD's have been 3/4-1 ton trucks with a SFA, and I won't have it any other way. The strength, simplicity, and the suspension options in the future appeal to me. Oh, and well...: So wait... Purpose built high performance IFS rigs can't be a part of the conversation, but 4-linked buggies with 18" coilovers and full hydraulic steering are within the realm of possibilities when talking SFA? The effort required to make any mass-produced vehicle perform on that level is comparable, whether IFS or SFA. It'd be cool if the Bronco is using the same upper/lower setup found on the new Raptors, because that'd open the door for some really killer long travel setups without having to wait for the aftermarket to develop new parts. After the thorough letdown that the new Defender was, this definitely has my interest. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:47:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not with an engine thats worth a shit. and everyone is bitching about IFS, lol. .... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:48:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel like I'm back in high school reading this thread. If that were the case this thing would have a 5.0L engine option. Ford doesn't even trust buyers enough to put a 3.5L in this thing. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:48:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FYI, Chicoms bought a controlling interest in Fiat, and so actually have a controlling interest in FCA. Citation please. Their annual report fails to mention you're claim that the Chinese Communist have a controlling interest rather than the Italian Agnelli family.  That needs to be brought before the FTC today! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:50:53 AM EDT
[#6]
I never understood some people's fascination with degrading Jeeps; tho each their own I guess. My JLU is my fourth Jeep and for me it's great.
I also like the Tacoma. I never liked the newer FJ (old ones are badass). I'd sure like to see one of these Broncos in person. Competition is a good thing 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:51:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ford doesn't even trust buyers enough to put a 3.5L in this thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I feel like I'm back in high school reading this thread. If that were the case this thing would have a 5.0L engine option. Ford doesn't even trust buyers enough to put a 3.5L in this thing. No it's funny as I graduated HS in 2002 and the Big body Bronco vs Jeep thing was a daily argument. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:55:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it's funny as I graduated HS in 2002 and the Big body Bronco vs Jeep thing was a daily argument. A '95-'96 Bronco 4x4 has been a vehicle dream on mine for 20+ years now |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:56:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No front solid axles no care Yup. Also those IFS tie rods are looking pretty bendy with 35s. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:57:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't care for Ford and I don't care for jeep But quite frankly Op, Ford is not going to put a over 700 horsepower v8 In such a thing But it looks like Jeep will @proheromk1 And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:59:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A '95-'96 Bronco 4x4 has been a vehicle dream on mine for 20+ years now Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No it's funny as I graduated HS in 2002 and the Big body Bronco vs Jeep thing was a daily argument. A '95-'96 Bronco 4x4 has been a vehicle dream on mine for 20+ years now buddy got a cherry 95 that was the dark green and had factory "winch" bumpers as it was a Fish n Game truck. straight piped like a boss -m could hear him for miles. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 9:59:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Why would I cry over the Bronco's release?
They'll likely introduce a bunch of people to my off-road lift style and that's a good thing. I just hope they figure out how to drive them fast so they don't clog up the trails. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:00:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely click in at about $75k is my guess Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't care for Ford and I don't care for jeep But quite frankly Op, Ford is not going to put a over 700 horsepower v8 In such a thing But it looks like Jeep will @proheromk1 And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely click in at about $75k is my guess coworker has a sema AEV Wrangler with a hemi in it. also has dana 60's |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:02:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Dang at the jeep hate here. I have a '99 TJ that I will not trade.....certainly not for a Ford. Although, the new Bronco looks interesting. But, it's still not my TJ. If you don't have one, you don't understand.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:02:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Former JKU owner here. I'm a fan of Jeeps and wanted to buy another, or a Gladiator, but then this Bronco finally came out...
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:02:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like Jeeps and Ram trucks, not quite a fanboy but close. I'm thrilled at the new Bronco, its a sign and momentum towards production of fun, interesting, and capable vehicles. Anything to fight back against the trend towards boring econoboxes. I like the Bronco's styling a lot, and also like the drivetrain options. Jeep desperately needs to start slapping turbos on their smaller vehicles that won't fit a V8. Yeah agree. For all my shitposting I actually like how these look and can’t wait to see them on the road. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:03:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explain. Better approach angles then Wrangler. Lower crawl ratio. Front and rear lockers. Disconnecting sway bar. 35s from the factory. Removable doors and top. Available 2.7 with 400 ft lbs or 7 speed manual. Until you put a winch on it, then the bumper will stick out farther. Lower crawl ratio than what? My 06 Rubicon has about a 73:1 crawl ratio, and that’s on a rig with 31” tires stock. With my 255/85-16s 1st & 2nd low are still too low for most of what I do (I don’t rock crawl.) 4.70s with 35s is pretty tall, most people I know who rock crawl would be running 4.88s on 33s and 5.38s or lower for 35s. What it sounds like is Ford’s version of a Rubicon, something done halfway decent but you could do better for the same money buying the base model and upgrading. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:05:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dang at the jeep hate here. I have a '99 TJ that I will not trade.....certainly not for a Ford. Although, the new Bronco looks interesting. But, it's still not my TJ. If you don't have one, you don't understand. It's not hate and they do understand, that's why they start threads and poke like this and never post what they drive. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:06:37 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the "muh pushrod v8" boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't care for Ford and I don't care for jeep But quite frankly Op, Ford is not going to put a over 700 horsepower v8 In such a thing But it looks like Jeep will @proheromk1 And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the "muh pushrod v8" boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess Low-end torque is what many off road vehicles of this type need, and it appears neither the current Jeep (outside of the new diesel) nor the new Bronco are giving it to them. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:07:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not hate and they do understand, that's why they start threads and poke like this and never post what they drive. Has nothing to do with what I drive and everything to do with getting the reactions from the zealots. I drive a Honda Civic for fucks sake. But don’t let that ruin a good time. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:09:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @orjeepguy I actually did the same. Trading my 4runner in I think and keeping my Tacoma. Quote HistoryQuoted: @orjeepguy I actually did the same. Trading my 4runner in I think and keeping my Tacoma. Nice! Congrats! My wife is going from a Fiesta. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:11:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stronger simpler parts are way overhyped? No. How about when your trying to go over a rock stuff a tire into the fender on ifs, now your front diff Could be dragging the ground since you lose clearance as it articulated, no thanks. And if ifs was so good why didn’t they use it on the Broncos rear axle too? It’s ok if you don’t like jeeps, it’s really ok. But some of us do. And some of us actually use them. The bronco is nice, probably going to sell a lot of them too. But that last “5%” they leave in the table is quite a bit in my book. Spoken like a jeep driver that knows shit about offroading and shit about IFS. Ground clearance is not the problem. Most IFS setups have more GC than a SFA when “articulated”. Total articulation and loading are the weak points. However, neither of those are an issue when comparing stock for stock. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:12:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has nothing to do with what I drive and everything to do with getting the reactions from the zealots. I drive a Honda Civic for fucks sake. But don’t let that ruin a good time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's not hate and they do understand, that's why they start threads and poke like this and never post what they drive. Has nothing to do with what I drive and everything to do with getting the reactions from the zealots. I drive a Honda Civic for fucks sake. But don’t let that ruin a good time. More like “provoking reactions from the zealots” from your posts on the first page, Mr. Civic... 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:14:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like “provoking reactions from the zealots” from your posts on the first page, Mr. Civic... In all fairness I also own a super duty. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:15:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 35s are cheap when you have 15” rims  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For the 99% of the people that buy these IFS is more than adequate. Ford built it with disconnectable sway bars. I'm sure the aftermarket will respond with more options later. I'm impressed Ford is offering 35s from the factory. That's got to hurt gas mileage. Hopefully 35 inch tires will get more affordable now. 35s are cheap when you have 15” rims Modern brakes don’t fit behind 15” rims anymore.  |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:17:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess From what I saw/read, it wasn't even an FCA idea or commission. It was built to showcase at a cancelled show and Jeep needed something to counter the Bronco hype. It will be interesting to see if it actually ends up in production. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:22:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until you put a winch on it, then the bumper will stick out farther. Lower crawl ratio than what? My 06 Rubicon has about a 73:1 crawl ratio, and that’s on a rig with 31” tires stock. With my 255/85-16s 1st & 2nd low are still too low for most of what I do (I don’t rock crawl.) 4.70s with 35s is pretty tall, most people I know who rock crawl would be running 4.88s on 33s and 5.38s or lower for 35s. What it sounds like is Ford’s version of a Rubicon, something done halfway decent but you could do better for the same money buying the base model and upgrading. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Explain. Better approach angles then Wrangler. Lower crawl ratio. Front and rear lockers. Disconnecting sway bar. 35s from the factory. Removable doors and top. Available 2.7 with 400 ft lbs or 7 speed manual. Until you put a winch on it, then the bumper will stick out farther. Lower crawl ratio than what? My 06 Rubicon has about a 73:1 crawl ratio, and that’s on a rig with 31” tires stock. With my 255/85-16s 1st & 2nd low are still too low for most of what I do (I don’t rock crawl.) 4.70s with 35s is pretty tall, most people I know who rock crawl would be running 4.88s on 33s and 5.38s or lower for 35s. What it sounds like is Ford’s version of a Rubicon, something done halfway decent but you could do better for the same money buying the base model and upgrading. 4.88 gears x 4:1 transfer case x 4.46 1st gear = 87:1 crawl ratio. Best. Crawl. Ratio. Ever. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:26:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Looking forward to the delivery of my new jeep.
My 1953 M38A1 Willys Jeep is getting painted after a body off frame, complete restoration. I was originally planning to parachute into Normandy for the 75th anniversary of D Day with the Round Canopy Parachute Club, but I couldn't get medically cleared to jump (Cancer Sux) So all those funds were shifted into my Willys fund. Can't wait. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:28:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spoken like a jeep driver that knows shit about offroading and shit about IFS. Ground clearance is not the problem. Most IFS setups have more GC than a SFA when “articulated”. Total articulation and loading are the weak points. However, neither of those are an issue when comparing stock for stock. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Stronger simpler parts are way overhyped? No. How about when your trying to go over a rock stuff a tire into the fender on ifs, now your front diff Could be dragging the ground since you lose clearance as it articulated, no thanks. And if ifs was so good why didn’t they use it on the Broncos rear axle too? It’s ok if you don’t like jeeps, it’s really ok. But some of us do. And some of us actually use them. The bronco is nice, probably going to sell a lot of them too. But that last “5%” they leave in the table is quite a bit in my book. Spoken like a jeep driver that knows shit about offroading and shit about IFS. Ground clearance is not the problem. Most IFS setups have more GC than a SFA when “articulated”. Total articulation and loading are the weak points. However, neither of those are an issue when comparing stock for stock. I guess if the front wheels angle up from the differential ground clearance may suffer. I mean, it is a Ford... |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:29:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd probably be out less cash in the long run to just SAS the 4R https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0a/fc/99/0afc990ec1ee2026c256c766c2667890.jpg It's almost always cheaper to buy a well depreciated example to build to a high spec than purchase new and outfit even lightly. Especially if the labor is solely your own. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:34:01 AM EDT
[#31]
My hunting, beater vehicle is a 1995 Jeep Wrangler (4 cyl.). It is fun to drive, goes anywhere and I can fix any problems that pop up.
But honestly the worst mistake I made in my 65 year life was selling my 1977 IH Scout II SS. I bought it new off the lot in 1978. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:34:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha, it's not a Fiat! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ha, it's a Ford! Ha, it's not a Fiat! Ha, neither is my Jeep! |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:36:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was wondering the same thing. Last I installed beadlocks you didn't have an option, no ring=not holding 1psi lol. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/148098/A3BEBA25-AEEE-4556-B564-9CB30116204F-1503094.png Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tj owner. Not Crying, if it had solid axle I would consider a Wildtrak . Guarantee I will NOT see one where I wheel  .Guarantee I WILL see one when I take my girls to town for Ice Cream .  ETA : What the Hell are " Beadlock Capable Wheels " ? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/148098/A3BEBA25-AEEE-4556-B564-9CB30116204F-1503094.png You Off-Road newbs. You can put the bead on the inner lip like a regular rim on most beadlock rims. If you want to lock them, you put it on the outside and apply locking ring. Do you even FROAD Bros??? |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:39:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Some of you guys are pretty invested in your jeep hate. It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic. Are you 12 years old or something? Who cares what someone else drives.
As to the new bronco, cool. More options and competition is never a bad thing. I'm personally not a fan of the styling but to each there own. As to it being a wrangler killer, lol. No. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:40:43 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So wait... Purpose built high performance IFS rigs can't be a part of the conversation, but 4-linked buggies with 18" coilovers and full hydraulic steering are within the realm of possibilities when talking SFA? The effort required to make any mass-produced vehicle perform on that level is comparable, whether IFS or SFA. It'd be cool if the Bronco is using the same upper/lower setup found on the new Raptors, because that'd open the door for some really killer long travel setups without having to wait for the aftermarket to develop new parts. After the thorough letdown that the new Defender was, this definitely has my interest. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: KOH/Baja/large trucks/military/etc...are highly modified and/or one-off custom designs designed for the specific application. You can't fairly compare them to a mass-produced production vehicle marketed to soccer moms. My last 4 DD's have been 3/4-1 ton trucks with a SFA, and I won't have it any other way. The strength, simplicity, and the suspension options in the future appeal to me. Oh, and well...: So wait... Purpose built high performance IFS rigs can't be a part of the conversation, but 4-linked buggies with 18" coilovers and full hydraulic steering are within the realm of possibilities when talking SFA? The effort required to make any mass-produced vehicle perform on that level is comparable, whether IFS or SFA. It'd be cool if the Bronco is using the same upper/lower setup found on the new Raptors, because that'd open the door for some really killer long travel setups without having to wait for the aftermarket to develop new parts. After the thorough letdown that the new Defender was, this definitely has my interest. Having spent the last 20 or so years asking IFS v SFA questions to about every design team, automotive engineer, race managers, component dev, competitors, wheelers and local shop I've get access boils down to this. Once you get past ingrained preconceptions, the issues more a complete misunderstand of goal oriented vehicle engineering and a very narrow belief, particularly American, about it what constitutes "off-roading" |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:47:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Low-end torque is what many off road vehicles of this type need, and it appears neither the current Jeep (outside of the new diesel) nor the new Bronco are giving it to them. HUH? (the flatter curves are the 2.7 ecoboost red=torque green=hp, the peakier ones are the GM 5.3)  |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:49:14 AM EDT
[#37]
This is at least the third thread we've had on this subject in the last 24-48 hours.
Here's my take now that the Bronco has been revealed: Quoted: From the Jeep perspective, there are two details we now know about the Bronco that I think represent problems that Jeep needs to address. The first is the availability of the 2.7L EB. That engine blows the doors off everything currently available in the JL/JT by a pretty big margin, and Ford is making it available in every trim all the way down to the base stripper with steelies. A 392 dropped under the hood of a Rubicon + trim and priced like a SRT model isn't going to work for regular consumers. If the 392 fits, the regular 5.7L Hemi fits. In the Ram 1500, the 5.7L Hemi is a $1,500 option over the 3.6L Pentastar. If FCA wants to play ball with the Bronco, they probably need to offer that same option in the volume trims of the JL/JT. Or they can stay put and watch market share get seduced by the power of that 2.7EB. But I think they should give their customers the option of buying the 5.7 unless that rumored I6 turbo is going to get here soon. The second issue is the availability of the Bronco's "Sasquatch Package." That package includes 35" tires, front and rear locking diffs, Bilstein shocks, and 4.7 gears, and like the 2.7L EB, that package is available on every trim of the Bronco. Meanwhile, at Jeep, lockers are only available on the Rubicon, and the other trims only get an optional LSD. I don't know what the right answer is for Jeep on this issue. They could sell the lockers down market in lower trims, but then they would need to re-think what the Rubicon trim should offer. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:50:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Low-end torque is what many off road vehicles of this type need, and it appears neither the current Jeep (outside of the new diesel) nor the new Bronco are giving it to them. The 2.7 makes 400 foot pounds of tq, 90% of that is available at 1700 rpm. Will have lots of low end. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:50:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: coworker has a sema AEV Wrangler with a hemi in it. also has dana 60's Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't care for Ford and I don't care for jeep But quite frankly Op, Ford is not going to put a over 700 horsepower v8 In such a thing But it looks like Jeep will @proheromk1 And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely click in at about $75k is my guess coworker has a sema AEV Wrangler with a hemi in it. also has dana 60's A client of mine has an AEV JKU with a Hemi. It's pretty sweet. I'm sure AEV will do a Bronco. Their prospectors are also pretty sweet. 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:52:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No front solid axles no care THIS.  Also: Just Empty Every |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:52:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HUH? (the flatter curves are the 2.7 ecoboost red=torque green=hp, the peakier ones are the GM 5.3) https://www.fordf150blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2.7-liter-EcoBoost-vs-GM-5.3-liter-V8-stock.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Low-end torque is what many off road vehicles of this type need, and it appears neither the current Jeep (outside of the new diesel) nor the new Bronco are giving it to them. HUH? (the flatter curves are the 2.7 ecoboost red=torque green=hp, the peakier ones are the GM 5.3) https://www.fordf150blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2.7-liter-EcoBoost-vs-GM-5.3-liter-V8-stock.jpg 
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:53:14 AM EDT
[#42]
My observation is that a lot of Jeep owners have big ego problems.
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:55:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having spent the last 20 or so years asking IFS v SFA questions to about every design team, automotive engineer, race managers, component dev, competitors, wheelers and local shop I've get access boils down to this. Once you get past ingrained preconceptions, the issues more a complete misunderstand of goal oriented vehicle engineering and a very narrow belief, particularly American, about it what constitutes "off-roading" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: KOH/Baja/large trucks/military/etc...are highly modified and/or one-off custom designs designed for the specific application. You can't fairly compare them to a mass-produced production vehicle marketed to soccer moms. My last 4 DD's have been 3/4-1 ton trucks with a SFA, and I won't have it any other way. The strength, simplicity, and the suspension options in the future appeal to me. Oh, and well...: So wait... Purpose built high performance IFS rigs can't be a part of the conversation, but 4-linked buggies with 18" coilovers and full hydraulic steering are within the realm of possibilities when talking SFA? The effort required to make any mass-produced vehicle perform on that level is comparable, whether IFS or SFA. It'd be cool if the Bronco is using the same upper/lower setup found on the new Raptors, because that'd open the door for some really killer long travel setups without having to wait for the aftermarket to develop new parts. After the thorough letdown that the new Defender was, this definitely has my interest. Having spent the last 20 or so years asking IFS v SFA questions to about every design team, automotive engineer, race managers, component dev, competitors, wheelers and local shop I've get access boils down to this. Once you get past ingrained preconceptions, the issues more a complete misunderstand of goal oriented vehicle engineering and a very narrow belief, particularly American, about it what constitutes "off-roading" Based on the social media presence of 99% of the local Jeep clubs, American off-roading is accomplished as soon as you leave a paved surface. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:57:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess yeah ok, after 75 years I'm sure that ford thing will be the final nail in the coffin for the wrangler. I mean they have one foot in the grave already right. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery well the engineers at jeep should be extremely flattered. Lol |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:58:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Low-end torque is what many off road vehicles of this type need, and it appears neither the current Jeep (outside of the new diesel) nor the new Bronco are giving it to them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't care for Ford and I don't care for jeep But quite frankly Op, Ford is not going to put a over 700 horsepower v8 In such a thing But it looks like Jeep will @proheromk1 And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the "muh pushrod v8" boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess Low-end torque is what many off road vehicles of this type need, and it appears neither the current Jeep (outside of the new diesel) nor the new Bronco are giving it to them. Have you been hiding in a hole the last 9 years? The one thing Ford's EcoBoost engines do undeniably well in truck applications is deliver low end torque. The 2.7L EB in the F-150 produced 400 lb-ft of torque, and it hits that number at 2,750 RPM. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 10:58:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you guys are pretty invested in your jeep hate. It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic. Are you 12 years old or something? Who cares what someone else drives. As to the new bronco, cool. More options and competition is never a bad thing. I'm personally not a fan of the styling but to each there own. As to it being a wrangler killer, lol. No.  |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 11:07:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was hoping it would have to do with comments like this.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty fair. Even the G-Class has gone IFS now. But there may be a contender soon. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/7E7C677A-54E9-48F9-A012-5BA07924F4B7_jpe-1503237.JPG details @alacrity EF4LIfe hit it - Ineos Grenadier. 2nd richest guy in UK pissed Defender gets canceled, tries to buy It. Rebuffed harshly (JLR destroys tooling) he rage builds a car company. So it gets tagged new Defender - but it's more Graz than Solihull. But yea, spiritually, it's the successor. BMW motives, solid ag/commercial axles from Carraro, good management and eng teams, overall top effort - and it may still suck. I'm hopeful, but scratch efforts are fraught with peril. Rage gets shit done tho. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/D6ECECF1-0FFF-46DF-85BE-03D6812B1A5A_jpe-1503272.JPG https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/New-BMW-Landrover-anyone-/5-2344301/ I was hoping it would have to do with comments like this.... With the "more affordable landcruiser" rumors abound just about the only thing that may get me to sell the 4runner earlier than planned is if Toyota can deliver something like a modern FZJ80 but under $50K. Price? There's no price released by Ineos. There's not even a production facility currently. 2021 my ass 2023 is my bet. Other thread covers how corporate comments (Tennant, Heilman, Ratcliffe and the various Mkt/PR flacks) about competing with the Land Rover and Wrangler evolved into estimates of $40-$50k in the rags. I've been a lonely skeptic at holding at least at $70k - but the financial realties are such. Tennant sharpened this range in a interview with NZ's Driven "We won't be competing with double-cab utes on price," says Tennant. "But we're not going to be up there with [the Mercedes-Benz] G-Wagen either, which has disappeared into the stratosphere in our opinion. This is a working tool. "[Jeep] Wrangler, Land Cruiser it's that sort of ballpark." At this stage we'd be picking a price just over $100k (the 'Cruiser 200-series starts at $113k).<NZ Dollars> But launch is a long way off yet. It'll appear in Europe late-2021; expect to see it in NZ early-2022." 100k NZD = $65USD today. But foreign market price doesn't always translate directly into the US market. Yes, it's officially slated for the States. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 11:09:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I saw/read, it wasn't even an FCA idea or commission. It was built to showcase at a cancelled show and Jeep needed something to counter the Bronco hype. It will be interesting to see if it actually ends up in production. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And putting a Hemi in a Jeep serves what purpose other than appeasing the “muh pushrod v8” boomers and snapping axles in half. And I will also believe it when I see it, that stunt they pulled was a concept in an attempt to stir up Jeep owners on the eve of thier destruction. ETA if it does come to fruition it will likely clock in at about $75k is my guess From what I saw/read, it wasn't even an FCA idea or commission. It was built to showcase at a cancelled show and Jeep needed something to counter the Bronco hype. It will be interesting to see if it actually ends up in production. R&T has a "source" that says it will: The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 is headed into production, according to a source inside Jeep. The company has apparently produced 30 V-8 Wrangler prototypes at the Toledo, Ohio Wrangler plant—something our source says would not happen for a one-off concept. That means we'll likely see a V-8-powered Wrangler Rubicon in Jeep dealerships sometime soon, perhaps making the same 450 hp and 450 lb-ft as the concept shown above. Our source—who told us about the vehicle in detail before Jeep published any information about the Wrangler Rubicon 392 concept—says the V-8 Wrangler will also have Fox internal-bypass racing shocks, like those found on the Gladiator Mojave. Like the concept, the production-bound Jeep will have a lifted suspension with beadlock-capable wheels. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a33296422/an-insider-says-the-v-8-jeep-wrangler-392-is-headed-for-production/ Still, this particular example doesn't do anything to address the Bronco's 2.7L EB that will be available in the $30k range. FCA needs to bring in the 5.7L Hemi to fight that unless the rumored I6 turbo gets here soon. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 11:10:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has nothing to do with what I drive and everything to do with getting the reactions from the zealots. I drive a Honda Civic for fucks sake. But don’t let that ruin a good time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's not hate and they do understand, that's why they start threads and poke like this and never post what they drive. Has nothing to do with what I drive and everything to do with getting the reactions from the zealots. I drive a Honda Civic for fucks sake. But don’t let that ruin a good time. |
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Posted: 7/14/2020 11:11:30 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all fairness I also own a super duty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: More like “provoking reactions from the zealots” from your posts on the first page, Mr. Civic... In all fairness I also own a super duty. I thought that is what your Wife drives?
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