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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:02:48 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:08:51 PM EDT
[#2]
My grandpa was in the 3rd US Inf. Div. in WW1. Yeah, M1917's in the trenches. He lost all three of his buddies he'd signed up with.
I remember him saying, when I was a youngster, "Them roosians might come through these hills some day. Us old squirrel hunters will make sure there won't be as many gets to the other side as there was when they started out." Too bad so much of that old spirit is dying off/out in this country. Too many people sitting around waiting on the government to do it for them, to take care of them. As for shooting skill? Hell, I was in the US Army. In the infantry. Most of those guys I was in with couldn't shoot for shit. Burn up ammo, hell yes. Hit what they needed to hit, hell no. Like my brother said one time. I don't need a rifle. I've got a shotgun. I'll kill one of the bastards and take his rifle. He eventually relented and got an AK47 clone though, so now he has a rifle. Many of the fudds wouldn't last long. Some of the good guys will get it trying to help someone who can't cut it. The longer it goes on, the tougher and meaner the survivors will get. Let's hope it never happens. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:09:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The armed population meme kinda died with Iraq and Afghanistan. The militias could impose logistical costs through mines (not guns, gunslingers got slaughtered). But whenever the real military wanted something, the militias couldn't do a damn thing to stop them. Lets see... 10,000 armed Jihadists in Iraq/Afghan. Took how many military members over the area of 2 average sized states to begin to put under control? Versus 12,000,000+ active hunters, sport shooters, IDPA/USPSA/3-Gun spread out over the entire continental US.. yeah they may get Hawaii under control after a few years buddy. The rest of this story would go: Politicians are dead, at least all of the anti-gun folks who showed their heads. Military political figures are dead, except for the ones cowering in a bunker. Logistics got fucked. Half our soldiers are MIA, presumed to have switched sides. The other half of the army can't figure out who to shoot out or the ROE prevent them from doing anything. A few "domestic terrorists" got shot yesterday. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:12:49 PM EDT
[#4]
While the average US hunter might not exactly be the equal of the modern infantryman he is much more dangerous than the average citizen in any other country.
Can anyone come up with a country that would be harder to occupy than the good ol US of A? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:19:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Better be good at hunting because a couple of EMPs will thin out 95% of the heard...
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:21:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10,000 armed Jihadists in Iraq/Afghan. Took how many military members over the area of 2 average sized states to begin to put under control? Versus 12,000,000+ active hunters, sport shooters, IDPA/USPSA/3-Gun spread out over the entire continental US.. yeah they may get Hawaii under control after a few years buddy. The rest of this story would go: Politicians are dead, at least all of the anti-gun folks who showed their heads. Military political figures are dead, except for the ones cowering in a bunker. Logistics got fucked. Half our soldiers are MIA, presumed to have switched sides. The other half of the army can't figure out who to shoot out or the ROE prevent them from doing anything. A few "domestic terrorists" got shot yesterday. Those hunters can't even coordinate to win elections, nevermind some imaginary war against their own country; half the time they're the ones supporting government counter-coordination tools like the NSA backbone splitters. Coordination issues render grassroots efforts less and less practical as the size of the population increases; while government efforts against small groups become more and more practical as their recruiting options expand. Eventually, the disparity gets so great that only 'lone wolves' stand a chance of avoiding informers, and by forsaking the group, they auto-identify to the population as criminals, throwing away legitimacy before they begin. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:23:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Besides Mexico, is there a country on the planet that can actually invade America?
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:25:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the purpose of the gun is to kill the occupier while he is eating dinner with his buddies and then slink away. I have no desire to meet a BMP in an open field. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Our country was founded with farmers who hunted. They fought the most powerful military in the world at the time. The human spirit goes along way. Yeah, the world has changed since then. Run out into the forest with your Tapco'ed EBR and tell me how you fare against any vehicle that has FLIR. I thought the purpose of the gun is to kill the occupier while he is eating dinner with his buddies and then slink away. I have no desire to meet a BMP in an open field. The only problem is that eventually the other side catches on. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:25:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Trained and equipped military would make a mess of unorganized partizan fudds. It would be a slaughter. Red dawn is a movie, not a documentary.
As a redneck from a long line of backwoods rednecks, survival would be a trick. Generating any offense, damned near impossible. Sure some isolated folks could cause a few casualties here and there, but they'd get smoked quick. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:26:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Standing Army?
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:30:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heart attacks and lots of injuries the start of deer season. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. Heart attacks and lots of injuries the start of deer season. no joke. every year or two up here there's some old guy who takes one last walk up the hill. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:52:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no joke. every year or two up here there's some old guy who takes one last walk up the hill. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. Heart attacks and lots of injuries the start of deer season. no joke. every year or two up here there's some old guy who takes one last walk up the hill. I can think of about a million worse ways to go than heading out on one last hunt. 
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:54:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. The people that hunt with me have plenty of training, definitely not bench shooting a bolt action rifle at 100 yards....SHRUG Aerial gunnery  </a>" />
800 yard range for day and night  </a>" />
 </a>" />
NVG/thermal  </a>" />
 </a>" />
 </a>" />
(I'm not seeing any fat FUDDS here, dunno maybe I'm missing something??) Well schooled in stealthy night time ambushes of animals that hear and can smell better than humans. We also introduce them to some very cool gear:  </a>" />
 </a>" />
We even train our young wommenz to shoot proficiently 
 </a>" />
And then there's some shotgunning. Oh, um...this was 26 degrees, raining, in the middle of Aransas bay, no blind, up to our waist in water for 5 hours, paddled in by jonboat, carried in the decoys, carried them out paddled back in 30 MPH wind.  </a>" />
I never heard single complaint that day about it being cold or wet....these people aren't exactly pussies....Jus' sayin' While I completely understand the disparity between our own organized mil and what many perceive to be "FUDDS", I also live in Texas where I have personally seen illegals raid camps, and other bad things. These people aren't training so much against our own people as they are the scum that are coming into the country, etc. I really wish we had more organization among hunters, but then everyone would start screaming "militia" 
ETA: the quote |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:56:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. woods warfare baby |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:01:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. Probably more than the patriots who defeated the British. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:21:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're posting on here, you're not an "average hunter" by ANY stretch of the imagination. Anyone posting on here is an ultra minority of gun owners and is about the farthest thing from a representative sample as can be. I've given up wearing my WAHTF Arfcom shirt. Never had anyone ask me about the site or the agreed "Beans or No Beans" way of vetting forum members. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:26:18 PM EDT
[#17]
So much negativity... Wasn't it something like only 8 to 10% of the population fought in the Revolutionary War.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:39:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably more than the patriots who defeated the British. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. Probably more than the patriots who defeated the British. You'd be wildly incorrect about that. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:48:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Omg thats not what i expected!!! |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:51:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The people that hunt with me have plenty of training, definitely not bench shooting a bolt action rifle at 100 yards....SHRUG <snip> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. The people that hunt with me have plenty of training, definitely not bench shooting a bolt action rifle at 100 yards....SHRUG <snip> yes, because that is every hunter |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:54:08 PM EDT
[#21]
A lot of valid opinions on both sides, but I think a lot of this debate is missing the point because they chose the wrong words. Calling it a 'standing army' gives a misleading impression, it would have been better to say 'armed citizens willing to fight back.'
And I realize many of those 'armed citizens willing to fight back' aren't in decent enough shape (or intelligent enough) to do so, but a lot of them are, and a lot of them also have military training and experience (considering the two wars we've been involved in over the last 15 years). After spending 10 years in the Army (the real one, with uniforms and stuff) and knowing what kind of people the military is comprised of, I actually have more faith in a sizable percentage of those 'armed citizens willing to fight back' getting pissed and going all Jack Hinson on an oppressive invader (whether foreign or domestic) than I do in the military refusing to follow unconstitutional orders to forcibly disarm American citizens. That's just one guy's opinion, so don't taze me, bro. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:58:05 PM EDT
[#22]
I bet that 12.7 million man "army" can do a cumulative total of 11 push ups. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:01:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. Trained at Valley Forge... Won the revolution and every war since. Additional training from the U.S. government as needed. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:06:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen some of this largest "standing" army. Fat, diabetic, hoveround using chain smokers who get out of breath walking from the walmart handicap parking to the front door 50 ft away. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:07:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, the world has changed since then. Run out into the forest with your Tapco'ed EBR and tell me how you fare against any vehicle that has FLIR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Our country was founded with farmers who hunted. They fought the most powerful military in the world at the time. The human spirit goes along way. Yeah, the world has changed since then. Run out into the forest with your Tapco'ed EBR and tell me how you fare against any vehicle that has FLIR. Flir is easily defeated with a space blanket and a woobie. Why meet them in a field, ambush them at the gas station. Fight on your terms, not theirs. Txl |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:14:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The armed population meme kinda died with Iraq and Afghanistan. The militias could impose logistical costs through mines (not guns, gunslingers got slaughtered). But whenever the real military wanted something, the militias couldn't do a damn thing to stop them. Bullshit. Those goat herders gave our high tech military a good run for the money, in an area with no infrastructure to be concerned about and almost nowhere to hide. Move that same conflict here with infrastructure concerns, friendly fire killing other Americans, with a handful of marginally tactically trained locals and you can magnify that resistance by a hundred. Chris Dorner shut down a whole fucking state for over a week, avoided FLIR, and had everyone in a sheer panic. Multiply him by a hundred. Multiply him by a thousand and send them marching into DC and you'll see nothing but a mass exodus of panty waisted politicians trying to save their hides. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:46:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet that 12.7 million man "army" can do a cumulative total of 11 push ups. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet that 12.7 million man "army" can do a cumulative total of 11 push ups. can't get dem negative gainz, bro |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:51:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our country was founded with farmers who hunted. They fought the most powerful military in the world at the time. The human spirit goes along way. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:17:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Movement to contact:
Near ambush: 
Prepared defense: 
Evacuate a casualty: 
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:32:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow it seems that the Taliban, Isis, the norks/chicoms, and Ho Chi Minh all seemed to beat the US without air superiority and inferior logistics. So weird. Weird. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our country was founded with farmers who hunted. They fought the most powerful military in the world at the time. The human spirit goes along way. Yea, Until it goes up against air support, then its a bad deal Wow it seems that the Taliban, Isis, the norks/chicoms, and Ho Chi Minh all seemed to beat the US without air superiority and inferior logistics. So weird. Weird. Hmm. Taliban: didn't beat the US, argument could made for draw but it wouldn't be very convincing. ISIS/ISIL: we haven't fought them. We've *sorta* dropped bombs on them and sent supplies to people who are fighting them, but our conventional forces have not faced them. North Korea/China: US forces were pushed all the way down the Korean peninsula, then US/ROK forces pushed the NKPA across the Yalu. We backed off and the Chinese entered the fray which led to an armistice with original post WW2 demarcation lines at the 38th parallel. Ho Chi Minh: we taught him to fight, against the Japanese during WW2 and he decided to put that experience to work for a united VN without colonial French rule. Even with all that experience, the irregular VC and the NVA couldn't meet and defeat the US forces in open combat. When the US went to small unit tactics using observation, air superiority and precision artillery, the NVA supply chain to the south was severely impaired. The VPAF lost about half of their high performance aircraft in a single engagement (Operation Bolo) and never gained air superiority over US forces in RVN. The US left RVN because there wasn't the will to invade the North. When we left. the ARVN just kept falling back and hoping the US would swoop in to save the day. But please, share with the class how the US was beaten by the groups and person you listed. Heck, I'm surprised you didn't add Fidel Castro to your list of 'winners'. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:34:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bingo. Go to your local public range the two weeks before deer season opens. THAT is your average hunter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
News flash. If you're posting on here, you're not an "average hunter" by ANY stretch of the imagination. Anyone posting on here is an ultra minority of gun owners and is about the farthest thing from a representative sample as can be. Bingo. Go to your local public range the two weeks before deer season opens. THAT is your average hunter. This is exactly what I thought of as soon as I saw the OP. I've seen a sight-in day at the local public range once, and I've actively avoided it ever since. There was a lot of piss-poor firearms handling, the RSOs were pushed to the edge of sanity, and the results on paper were fucking terrible. Seriously, how do you shoot a bolt action rifle with a 3-9x scope off a bench and get group sizes in excess of 5" at 25yds? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:36:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Do you even "Viet Cong" bro.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:41:18 PM EDT
[#33]
I wouldn't put up a force composed of hunters up against an invading army in a toe to toe fight. However, that force of hunters would be more formidable as a behind the lines guerrilla force that makes logistics and communication difficult for the invading force. To be truly effective they would need to be supplied with SAMs and anti-tank weaponry.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:49:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you even "Viet Cong" bro. Will China be sending the hunters 150,000 troops to aid in air defense? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:58:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is exactly what I thought of as soon as I saw the OP. I've seen a sight-in day at the local public range once, and I've actively avoided it ever since. There was a lot of piss-poor firearms handling, the RSOs were pushed to the edge of sanity, and the results on paper were fucking terrible. Seriously, how do you shoot a bolt action rifle with a 3-9x scope off a bench and get group sizes in excess of 5" at 25yds? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
News flash. If you're posting on here, you're not an "average hunter" by ANY stretch of the imagination. Anyone posting on here is an ultra minority of gun owners and is about the farthest thing from a representative sample as can be. Bingo. Go to your local public range the two weeks before deer season opens. THAT is your average hunter. This is exactly what I thought of as soon as I saw the OP. I've seen a sight-in day at the local public range once, and I've actively avoided it ever since. There was a lot of piss-poor firearms handling, the RSOs were pushed to the edge of sanity, and the results on paper were fucking terrible. Seriously, how do you shoot a bolt action rifle with a 3-9x scope off a bench and get group sizes in excess of 5" at 25yds? Paper plates at 100 yards are apparently demanding targets. 
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 3:33:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen some of this largest "standing" army. Fat, diabetic, hoveround using chain smokers who get out of breath walking from the walmart handicap parking to the front door 50 ft away. What a silly comment. Doubt yourself. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:09:42 AM EDT
[#37]
From what I have seen working in an LGS, don't count on hunters for shit.
The two days before season opener they flood in looking for a magazine for their rifle they lost, very common for some reason. Looking for a box of 35 Remington, there was none and they had zero ammo ammo on hand. Panic sets in. Asking to have scope installed because they either damaged theirs last season or removed them for some reason. That happens more than I could ever have imagined. Not to mention the constant "No one needs an assault weapon" bullshit they love to spew. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure, But how many keeps a good number of ammunition in their house? How many will actually be willing to risk their own lives? Do they have air support? Nope, huh well we will need the numbers on our side then |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:15:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Lol at fudds attending SHARP training.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:23:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you even "Viet Cong" bro. You realize we got tired of even trying to count how many of those guys got slaughtered, right? |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:25:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Why do most of the members posting in here assume that the 'hunters' would be fighting against U.S. troops and not beside them?
And let's be honest, we have a better chance of being invaded by aliens then the mainland U.S. getting invaded by a foreign power like the Chinese. What caliber for little green men? |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:26:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen some of this largest "standing" army. Fat, diabetic, hoveround using chain smokers who get out of breath walking from the walmart handicap parking to the front door 50 ft away. This. /thread |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:30:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The armed population meme kinda died with Iraq and Afghanistan. The militias could impose logistical costs through mines (not guns, gunslingers got slaughtered). But whenever the real military wanted something, the militias couldn't do a damn thing to stop them. Funny how that turned out though. Those guys are still there and stronger than ever. Afghanistan is the prime example of this. An armed and angry populace will defeat a superior invader every time. Not in open battle, but by a thousand small cuts. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:31:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. no more than Somalians, and us forces were overrun and asses shot off by alot fewer than 28 million. turkey shoot
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:34:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do most of the members posting in here assume that the 'hunters' would be fighting against U.S. troops and not beside them? And let's be honest, we have a better chance of being invaded by aliens then the mainland U.S. getting invaded by a foreign power like the Chinese. What caliber for little green men? War of the Worlds (not the Tom Cruise one, fuck that shitty movie) told me we have to fight them with biological weapons. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:36:11 AM EDT
[#45]
This sounds good, but the guys I hunt with would get fucking slaughtered if they were expected to actually fight against trained people. Those guys only associate the word flank with steak.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:38:35 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:38:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
War of the Worlds (not the Tom Cruise one, fuck that shitty movie) told me we have to fight them with biological weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why do most of the members posting in here assume that the 'hunters' would be fighting against U.S. troops and not beside them? And let's be honest, we have a better chance of being invaded by aliens then the mainland U.S. getting invaded by a foreign power like the Chinese. What caliber for little green men? War of the Worlds (not the Tom Cruise one, fuck that shitty movie) told me we have to fight them with biological weapons. We talking the old movie or the 80's TV show? |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:39:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen some of this largest "standing" army. Fat, diabetic, hoveround using chain smokers who get out of breath walking from the walmart handicap parking to the front door 50 ft away. 
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:46:00 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We talking the old movie or the 80's TV show? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do most of the members posting in here assume that the 'hunters' would be fighting against U.S. troops and not beside them? And let's be honest, we have a better chance of being invaded by aliens then the mainland U.S. getting invaded by a foreign power like the Chinese. What caliber for little green men? War of the Worlds (not the Tom Cruise one, fuck that shitty movie) told me we have to fight them with biological weapons. We talking the old movie or the 80's TV show? The old one |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:48:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, they also lack artillery and airpower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so tell me about all the military training the US hunters have had. Yeah, they also lack artillery and airpower. My pessimistic view: A percentage of those hunters would sooner shoot you in the back to take what you got than take up arms against a foreign invader. You could take out another chunk of folks in the category of obese or unable to physically do anything more than 50 yards away from their pickup truck. My optimistic view: Insurgency doesn't require a lot of training. Just keeping Afghanistan and Iraq in mind. There are still a lot of red-blooded armed Americans that would give any invader a damn hard time trying to keep control. |
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