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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:20:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention almost everyone in that area will have to relocate off the island. They are going to rely heavily on donations of money, goods, and labor. I bet many will step up in the rebuild effort. They need to start buy placing the new power lines underground. It will take a least a decade to return to some sort of normalcy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Rebuilding in Hawaii will be a bitch I bet. Labor costs oh shit! Materials cost holy shit! Extra shipping costs, fuck me! These people are fucked, a good tent and a good shed will be home for a while once that shit can even get there. Not to mention almost everyone in that area will have to relocate off the island. They are going to rely heavily on donations of money, goods, and labor. I bet many will step up in the rebuild effort. They need to start buy placing the new power lines underground. It will take a least a decade to return to some sort of normalcy. Hell I did not even think about the infrastructure aspect, just housing, they need some commercial buildings for food and clothes as most have what they are wearing and that is it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:21:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Wow. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be in that.
Prayers out for the people. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:21:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife is native Hawaiian and ALL of her friends and family tell her she is too skinny whenever they see her. Diabetes is a way of life there. ETA: they also make fun of her for not using pidgin to talk. The local diet is carbs covered with sugar, and more carbs. It could be called the Metformin Islands. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:24:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven’t found out for sure yet. When my cousin evacuated, houses were on fire two blocks away. There’s no cell service, so it’s tough to find out what’s happened. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm hearing the Safeway burned down. I think it’s still there. I know it may sound cringe but it’s probably a good thing. There aren’t any other supermarkets in the vicinity and the parking lot is a decent size. There were other food options in the Maui Outlets but those are gone. Here’s a picture from one of the helicopter flights showing the Safeway still standing. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/477921/4B81995D-B498-4CAF-98D0-D84383250C18_png-2914583.JPG Haven’t found out for sure yet. When my cousin evacuated, houses were on fire two blocks away. There’s no cell service, so it’s tough to find out what’s happened. The no cell service issue keeps coming up, and not being able to communicate with loved ones. Important to consider satellite comms access in one way or another, full on sat phones and the access plans are pretty expensive but small messengers like the inreach are getting to be more affordable. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:37:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7]  [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:43:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? What a nightmare |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:44:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/331822/Lahaina_1-2914831.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/331822/Lahaina_2-2914832.jpg Sad to see the devastation Damn. 
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:44:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? 85 mph gusts holy shit, that by it self is gonna start to rip some of those old homes apart The tourists all have cars, the local family’s not so much, a lot of bigger families with one working vehicle and three more that don’t. All the kids walk most the most part or catch rides There is also a massive homeless population, they don’t have vehicles and are often drug abusers with little situational awareness, that population would be the least able to leave the area, the area around Safeway had well over a hundred living in the weeds back when I was a kid |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:50:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's telling I hear all this yapping about how long you have or haven't lived in a particular spot but not a single fucking rebuttal for the asinine land and property rights policies of the island that have contributed to the aftermath of the disaster. When someone appeals to authority you know they have a weak case. The boneheads in charge of the island yapped on and on about muh neigborhood "character" and the dangers of airbnb properties all so they could fuck their residents into not having the housing they needed in this disaster. Again the residents deserve all the help they can get, but any rebuilding of government and public facilities should be contingent on the restoring of property rights and constitutional rights instead of using the public institutions for evil as has been done in Maui. How about answering a simple question so I can gauge whether or not it is worth my time to respond to your idiocy. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:54:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Very sad.
Maui has been our family playground for many years. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:54:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are plenty of measures such as doing burns to keep it in check via natural like. Also make more firebreaks like roads and rocks and such. Also trimming trees more.... I used to have a red card and have worked more grass/wildfires over the years than I can count. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The real "cause" of these huge fires is poor land management. Every time, every State Red or Blue. Short of turning everything into an asphalt parking lot, there's sometimes very little that can be done to keep these things from blowing up when conditions are right. I used to have a red card and have worked more grass/wildfires over the years than I can count. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:55:44 PM EDT
[#13]
That is just terrible. Prayers for all those people.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:55:55 PM EDT
[#14]
My niece actually thinks her vacation plans to Maui later this month will still be fine.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:56:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about answering a simple question so I can gauge whether or not it is worth my time to respond to your idiocy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's telling I hear all this yapping about how long you have or haven't lived in a particular spot but not a single fucking rebuttal for the asinine land and property rights policies of the island that have contributed to the aftermath of the disaster. When someone appeals to authority you know they have a weak case. The boneheads in charge of the island yapped on and on about muh neigborhood "character" and the dangers of airbnb properties all so they could fuck their residents into not having the housing they needed in this disaster. Again the residents deserve all the help they can get, but any rebuilding of government and public facilities should be contingent on the restoring of property rights and constitutional rights instead of using the public institutions for evil as has been done in Maui. How about answering a simple question so I can gauge whether or not it is worth my time to respond to your idiocy. Here's an answer. A sizeable portion of my family, not tourists but locals, is currently within miles of flames and we're unable to get ahold of them. Their backup housing situations are now fucked due to idiot local policies of their government. They are also struggling working class people who have been fucked over by restrictions on STRs. Are you satisfied now with your dumbass logical fallacy that either relies on ad hominem attack or an appeal to authority of how long you've been in a particular spot. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 12:57:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When conditions are extremely bad, even mile-wide natural fire breaks can't stop this stuff. true wildfires routinely jump 8 lane Cali freeways BUT....much more could've been done to prepare and protect people living and visiting an historic fire trap |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:02:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is very similar to the paradise California fire, there’s only really 2 ways in and out of Lahaina and a lot of old roads and lots of tourists Paradise fire ended up killing nearly a thousand people if I’m not mistaken. Given the similarities I’m not gonna be shocked if we rack up the death toll that high, it took over a month in paradise California to count up all the fatalities I really hope I’m wrong but I’m gonna base that as a similar event There is probbably 6 miles of coastline completely leveled by fire and it started way up the hill near the high school from the fly over videos, that’s a sizeable area of destruction Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1,000 people dead? I'd be shocked at that I sure hope you're not right. This is very similar to the paradise California fire, there’s only really 2 ways in and out of Lahaina and a lot of old roads and lots of tourists Paradise fire ended up killing nearly a thousand people if I’m not mistaken. Given the similarities I’m not gonna be shocked if we rack up the death toll that high, it took over a month in paradise California to count up all the fatalities I really hope I’m wrong but I’m gonna base that as a similar event There is probbably 6 miles of coastline completely leveled by fire and it started way up the hill near the high school from the fly over videos, that’s a sizeable area of destruction Google says the paradise fire of 2018 killed 85 people. Still I get your point maybe it's worse than I thought. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:06:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's an answer. A sizeable portion of my family, not tourists but locals, is currently within miles of flames and we're unable to get ahold of them. Their backup housing situations are now fucked due to idiot local policies of their government. They are also struggling working class people who have been fucked over by restrictions on STRs. Are you satisfied now with your dumbass logical fallacy that either relies on ad hominem attack or an appeal to authority of how long you've been in a particular spot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's telling I hear all this yapping about how long you have or haven't lived in a particular spot but not a single fucking rebuttal for the asinine land and property rights policies of the island that have contributed to the aftermath of the disaster. When someone appeals to authority you know they have a weak case. The boneheads in charge of the island yapped on and on about muh neigborhood "character" and the dangers of airbnb properties all so they could fuck their residents into not having the housing they needed in this disaster. Again the residents deserve all the help they can get, but any rebuilding of government and public facilities should be contingent on the restoring of property rights and constitutional rights instead of using the public institutions for evil as has been done in Maui. How about answering a simple question so I can gauge whether or not it is worth my time to respond to your idiocy. Here's an answer. A sizeable portion of my family, not tourists but locals, is currently within miles of flames and we're unable to get ahold of them. Their backup housing situations are now fucked due to idiot local policies of their government. They are also struggling working class people who have been fucked over by restrictions on STRs. Are you satisfied now with your dumbass logical fallacy that either relies on ad hominem attack or an appeal to authority of how long you've been in a particular spot. Uh huh, sure, sure… |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:06:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's an answer. A sizeable portion of my family, not tourists but locals, is currently within miles of flames and we're unable to get ahold of them. Their backup housing situations are now fucked due to idiot local policies of their government. They are also struggling working class people who have been fucked over by restrictions on STRs. Are you satisfied now with your dumbass logical fallacy that either relies on ad hominem attack or an appeal to authority of how long you've been in a particular spot. Again a non-answer. That is answer enough for me -click- |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:08:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again a non-answer. That is answer enough for me -click- Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's an answer. A sizeable portion of my family, not tourists but locals, is currently within miles of flames and we're unable to get ahold of them. Their backup housing situations are now fucked due to idiot local policies of their government. They are also struggling working class people who have been fucked over by restrictions on STRs. Are you satisfied now with your dumbass logical fallacy that either relies on ad hominem attack or an appeal to authority of how long you've been in a particular spot. Again a non-answer. That is answer enough for me -click- Those unwilling to learn are not the target audience. It is fine, one can learn by experience, as you currently are -- enjoy! Next time your fellow Hawaiians burn alive or end up homeless stand proud for any control and preparedness measures not taken because the ideas were devised by people living outside hawaii or less time than you. I'm sure while the victims breathe their last breath they relish in joy of maintaining the character of Hawaii. You'll probably be shocked to learn the international building code, firefighting techniques, firewalls, and most other fire mitigation techniques were not devised by people on the islands either and thus those those ideas should be disregarded. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:08:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:14:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Google says the paradise fire of 2018 killed 85 people. Still I get your point maybe it's worse than I thought. I might be foggy on my names, I thought one of the bigger fire events from the last 5 years had a very high fatality rate, I thought I remember reading into the hundreds of people died, maybe I’m wrong on that. Outside of paradise and camp fire is there one I’m missing? I remember videos posted of entire cul de sac of people who never made it out alive, now that I’m not in fire anymore I’m not as up to date on my incidents like I used to be. Not trying to spread bullshit |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:15:43 PM EDT
[#23]
I haven’t been to Lahaina in several years, but I have fond memories of the banyan tree and the Russian cannons guarding the harbor.
I’ve spent lots of time in Chico, up the Skyway to Paradise & Magalia and it’s crazy in the 21st century that a fire can completely raze a town… |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:18:27 PM EDT
[#24]
I can understand how the fire spread so fast. In addition to the high winds, everything was dry. Dry air which is unusual for Hawaii and dry brush from the seasonal dryness in the area. Most homes in Hawaii are made entirely of wood and homes are built very close to each other. So lots of fuel packed into a small space.
The fire started nearby and grew exponentially large quickly. The fire started just a mile from the shoreline. We also never had such a large fire like this in modern times so people didn't know what to do. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:19:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Zuckerberg and Opra can swoop in and buy up what's left.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:20:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just goes to show how divided we are as a country. 9/12/01 was the last day I truly saw America as I knew her. We’re over the threshold and now we’re good and fucked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Blue state, let it burn... Oh look, another edge lord, fuck you... Just goes to show how divided we are as a country. 9/12/01 was the last day I truly saw America as I knew her. We’re over the threshold and now we’re good and fucked. Nah, it was the same thing back in 1941 Arfcom when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. Of course I was only a lurker back then. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:21:39 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:26:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. First of all it is full of tourists and there is essentially only one road (Honoapiilani Hwy) that runs roughly North-South that most people use to access the area which is a long and thin strip of developed land along the western coast. Secondly, West Maui mountains are almost directly east of town and is the origination of the winds and also provides the rain shadow which makes the area hotter and drier. Even under good conditions, travelling the Honoapiilani Hwy between Maalaea and Kapalua can be a slow process. Often it is nearly bumper to bumper in some areas as tens of thousands of tourists mingle with local traffic accessing up and down the coast. There are no other roads which do this. It isn't a limited access highway. It's the equivalent of a normal 2 lane state highway, replete with local residence driveways, turn-outs, side streets, points of interest, beach parking, fruit stands, etc. The utilities run along the road in most places and are overhead wires. This highway is bounded on the east by farms and fields as well as some heavier industrial operations. The west side ranges from beach and rocks to downtown and developed tourist areas. When the fire spread from the eastern side of the highway, it jumped the highway due to the severe crosswinds coming off West Maui and raged into town along a long stretch of road almost at once. That was the only road available in some places and there is no doubt that by the time people in town were aware of their danger (and not simply looking at the burning Lahaina Pizza Company building) it may have been too late for them to flee without being cut off. Essentially the entire town was burned in far too short a time for everyone to make their way out easily. I don't know how much warning they had, but clearly a town full of tourists on a beach isn't worried about wildfire warnings, of they were even issued. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:30:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:35:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can understand how the fire spread so fast. In addition to the high winds, everything was dry. Dry air which is unusual for Hawaii and dry brush from the seasonal dryness in the area. Most homes in Hawaii are made entirely of wood and homes are built very close to each other. So lots of fuel packed into a small space. The fire started nearby and grew exponentially large quickly. The fire started just a mile from the shoreline. We also never had such a large fire like this in modern times so people didn't know what to do. basic function of civilian authorities dry conditions were known high winds potential was known population density was known evacuation challenges were known structure materials were known history of fires was known |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:38:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: basic function of civilian authorities dry conditions were known high winds potential was known population density was known evacuation challenges were known structure materials were known history of fires was known Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can understand how the fire spread so fast. In addition to the high winds, everything was dry. Dry air which is unusual for Hawaii and dry brush from the seasonal dryness in the area. Most homes in Hawaii are made entirely of wood and homes are built very close to each other. So lots of fuel packed into a small space. The fire started nearby and grew exponentially large quickly. The fire started just a mile from the shoreline. We also never had such a large fire like this in modern times so people didn't know what to do. basic function of civilian authorities dry conditions were known high winds potential was known population density was known evacuation challenges were known structure materials were known history of fires was known It was a literal repeat of the 1919 fires. And we have right here on arfcom Hawaiians here openly admitting they disregard ideas devised outside the island and proudly bragging they 'click' if it aint from a hawaiian. Considering modern firefighting, wildland fire control, and structural firewalling was developed almost exclusively outside of Hawaii, you know where this story is going. The Lahaina story is playing on repeat, everything that happened was pre-ordained. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:42:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Managed to track down my wife’s mom. She’s ok but in shock. Couldn’t get direct answers from here but whatever happened to her aunts and cousins isn’t good.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:42:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. The edge lords in this thread shitting on fellow Americans who just lost their homes, businesses, jobs, pets, etc disgust me and they deserve a timeout from this site. BTW not all people in HI are dems, on the highway from the Maui airport to Wailea there is a concrete structure facing the road that has been painted with large "you are sheep", "FJB", and other slogans. It brought a smile to my face every day when I drove past it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:44:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Managed to track down my wife’s mom. She’s ok but in shock. Couldn’t get direct answers from here but whatever happened to her aunts and cousins isn’t good. Damn, I hope it's a situation where the aunts and cousins just haven't been able to make contact yet. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:53:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The warning that rental car companies issue is for the road going southeast of Hana that loops around clockwise and ends up near Makena. It's not a bad road, but I can see rental companies wanting to avoid idiots getting stranded out there. I drove it in a rental Lincoln Navigator. It was a beautiful and fun drive. The desert is awesome. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 1:56:04 PM EDT
[#36]
I stand corrected, I thought I remember seeing fatalities from im guessing it was the camp fire reach past 200 and the media seemed to go silent on reporting the numbers the higher they went.
But this is back when it was still an ongoing incident. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:03:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: basic function of civilian authorities dry conditions were known high winds potential was known population density was known evacuation challenges were known structure materials were known history of fires was known Stuff works in the military because it's a tiresome cycle of teach, rehearse, evaluate, etc. On the civilian side, you might read about it once. Forget about it. And bam, now, right now you have to do it IRL. Everybody now mocks the Civil Defense stuff from the 1950s, but that's the level to which things have to go to really nail down stuff like this. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I might be foggy on my names, I thought one of the bigger fire events from the last 5 years had a very high fatality rate, I thought I remember reading into the hundreds of people died, maybe I’m wrong on that. Outside of paradise and camp fire is there one I’m missing? I remember videos posted of entire cul de sac of people who never made it out alive, now that I’m not in fire anymore I’m not as up to date on my incidents like I used to be. Not trying to spread bullshit Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Google says the paradise fire of 2018 killed 85 people. Still I get your point maybe it's worse than I thought. I might be foggy on my names, I thought one of the bigger fire events from the last 5 years had a very high fatality rate, I thought I remember reading into the hundreds of people died, maybe I’m wrong on that. Outside of paradise and camp fire is there one I’m missing? I remember videos posted of entire cul de sac of people who never made it out alive, now that I’m not in fire anymore I’m not as up to date on my incidents like I used to be. Not trying to spread bullshit I don't think there's been any fires in the semi recent history that have been that high. 100 years ago sure there was a bunch of them. Maybe I'm wrong if I am I would love to know. But I don't think there's been any fires in the last several decades that have been a thousand people in this country. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:10:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can understand how the fire spread so fast. In addition to the high winds, everything was dry. Dry air which is unusual for Hawaii and dry brush from the seasonal dryness in the area. Most homes in Hawaii are made entirely of wood and homes are built very close to each other. So lots of fuel packed into a small space. The fire started nearby and grew exponentially large quickly. The fire started just a mile from the shoreline. We also never had such a large fire like this in modern times so people didn't know what to do. Is it known what caused the fire? I recall it being discussed but I don't remember if there was a consensus on what it was. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:19:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The warning that rental car companies issue is for the road going southeast of Hana that loops around clockwise and ends up near Makena. It's not a bad road, but I can see rental companies wanting to avoid idiots getting stranded out there. I drove it in a rental Lincoln Navigator. It was a beautiful and fun drive. The desert is awesome. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night I have done the road to Hana in a rental keep and loved it, Highway 340 on the Northside in a full size suv is a different animal. https://www.dangerousroads.org/north-america/usa/643-kahekili-highway-usa.html |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have the winds died down any and how much of the fire is contained? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The fire is getting closer to our place on the south end. Everyone is safe, but I'm not sure if it will get to the property or not. Have the winds died down any and how much of the fire is contained? I'm out of state since it's one of our properties. As of this morning the fire was on the north end of town but it wasn't getting contained. We are in a wait and see situation. Not much we can do about it, unfortunately. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:46:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope you and yours stay safe man, ignore the haters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. There are large blazes in Kula and Kihei going on right now. I'm currently on the island of Kahoolawe and we can smell the smoke from here. The winds have come down a lot since yesterday but it is still breezy with strong gusts. I hope you and yours stay safe man, ignore the haters. Yep. This is what's got our place in the crosshairs right now |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw that last year in September. I was somewhat surprised but I don't go to Maui to talk politics so I am not well versed in that aspect of the region. We always stay at the Wailes Marriott due to my Wife's conference. Hopefully Kihei was not also having fires of their own. Kihei is experiencing fires. The north and east area is on fire right now. Wailea is safe for now. Makawao and the upcountry has fires there as well. It's not a good situation but not as bad as Lahaina |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:01:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kihei is experiencing fires. The north and east area is on fire right now. Wailea is safe for now. Makawao and the upcountry has fires there as well. It's not a good situation but not as bad as Lahaina Jesus, your fire resources are so over extended right now with all of that going on, and there’s no easy way to get more fire resources there at all |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:02:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stand corrected, I thought I remember seeing fatalities from im guessing it was the camp fire reach past 200 and the media seemed to go silent on reporting the numbers the higher they went. But this is back when it was still an ongoing incident. In the 2020-2022 time span, California and Oregon had a bunch of fires with losses totaling thousands of structures, but I believe the death tolls were thankfully much lower than that. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:10:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night That road is dangerous in good conditions. We went through there one time when some construction was going on, kept meeting dump trucks in blind curves with no room to pass. I can't remember how many times I had to back up to a spot wide enough to get out of the way. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:41:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That road is dangerous in good conditions. We went through there one time when some construction was going on, kept meeting dump trucks in blind curves with no room to pass. I can't remember how many times I had to back up to a spot wide enough to get out of the way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night That road is dangerous in good conditions. We went through there one time when some construction was going on, kept meeting dump trucks in blind curves with no room to pass. I can't remember how many times I had to back up to a spot wide enough to get out of the way. It gets real sporty when a fatality wreck closes the poli highway and it’s a mad rush to get around the north end before cops close that as well to prevent inevitable chaos. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:45:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have done the road to Hana in a rental keep and loved it, Highway 340 on the Northside in a full size suv is a different animal. https://www.dangerousroads.org/north-america/usa/643-kahekili-highway-usa.html |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:52:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Is there a lack of personnel and resources able to fight these fires? On the mainland folks come pouring from all areas of the country to big fires but remote Hawaii must be a different animal. Sad all around
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Posted: 8/10/2023 3:55:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That road is dangerous in good conditions. We went through there one time when some construction was going on, kept meeting dump trucks in blind curves with no room to pass. I can't remember how many times I had to back up to a spot wide enough to get out of the way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just saw a news report that 36 have died in this fire. I don't know the area or conditions but how can so many people die? I can understand it if it started at 200 AM with 60 MPH winds headed towards a populated area. Not long ago there was a horrendous fire northwest of Denver. It probably burned hundreds of homes. Not sure about fatalities. I will check the info on it. This may be it. December 2021 Marshall fire The Marshall Fire was a destructive wildfire and urban conflagration that started on December 30, 2021, shortly after 11:00 a.m. MST,[3] as a grass fire in Boulder County, Colorado.[4] The fire killed two people and became the most destructive fire in Colorado history in terms of buildings destroyed.[5] An unusually wet spring with above average growth of grass due to moist conditions, followed by an unusually warm and dry summer and fall, created abundant dry grass. This, combined with the lack of snow so far that winter, created ideal weather conditions for wildfires.[6][7] [9]Additionally, high winds were recorded in the area, with gusts of up to 115 miles per hour. The winds were driven by the mountain wave effect, and allowed for rapid spread of the fire. They said in a press conference that there were 85mph gusts when the fire was raging through homes. Look at a map of this place. There is one road going north and one road going south creating limited escape routes. There were powerlines over some roads. There were also thousands of tourists in town. How many of them had a vehicle with them? The road to the North that takes you around the island is a nightmare in the day, switchbacks, blind curves, lack of guard rails, several areas that it is a single lane. My wife and I drove it during the day and needed a drink afterwards. Read online a few weeks later a guy drove off the road into the sea and was found a week to two later. The small folding map that we got with the rental actually had a caution printed on it NOT to drive that route. I can only imagine what in would be like with 85 mph winds at night That road is dangerous in good conditions. We went through there one time when some construction was going on, kept meeting dump trucks in blind curves with no room to pass. I can't remember how many times I had to back up to a spot wide enough to get out of the way. Drove it in a full size suv, headed West putting me on the outside edge of the road. More than once had to slowly pass a car headed the other direction with my wife telling me there was a couple of inches of earth ( not pavement) before it became a shear drop off |
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