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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:01:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck Jon Krakauer. 
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:01:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you think Everest climbers are crazy, check out K2 
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:02:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much time and money does it take to attempt the climb? That doesn't count the expense of equipment and the 12-18 months of training required. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:03:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Far more people die on interstate highways every year. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:14:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck Jon Krakauer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Read "Into Thin Air" |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:14:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I remember right, the reason they got stuck on the way down was because they were late getting to the summit due to a traffic jam of climbers all attempting to summit the same day. Get-there-itis on the part of the guides/climbers meant they took the risk of summiting too late and getting trapped in the weather. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:16:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The biggest problem in 96 was the incompetence of the tour guides. There are strict turn around times so you can get back to camp safely, summit achieved or not. These were completely ignored and people died for it. The Texas guy that lost body parts also went snow blind early on(one of the first LASIK patients to go high altitude climbing, found some problems) and they just left him on the mountain saying they'd help him down when they return from the summit. Which didn't happen because they didn't turn around on schedule. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:20:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you think Everest climbers are crazy, check out K2 These guys know what they are getting in to when they get involved in the sport of mountaineer and climbing. Most of us long time climbers know people who paid the price. I stopped when I got married and had a family. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:21:17 PM EDT
[#9]
The main Everest routes are not particularly technical, especially with fixed ropes. Were Everest 3000ft shorter, nobody would consider it especially remarkable beyond the 14K of difference from basecamp to summit. The altitude makes it the challenge that it is.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone want to go up to the top and take a crazy carpet back down  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone want to go up to the top and take a crazy carpet back down Quoted:
This one may be close to that.  Failed To Load Title Quoted:
Go watch "Meru" on Netflix or Amazon. Those guys are fucking insane. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:22:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who was the noob girl that they dragged her ass up over the top and she only eat Ramon noodles or some shit like that |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:22:42 PM EDT
[#11]
A very good friend of mine used to climb with Scott Fischer
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:25:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. So, you knew these "tour guides" or climbed with someone who knew or worked with them? |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:26:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clipping jumars into pre-placed fixed ropes and breathing out of a SCUBA tank is not mountain climbing. In reality, to the serious alpinist, pre-placed ropes are cheating and O2 bottles are much too heavy to be considered practical for the speeds necessary to move in the mountains safely. For a more realistic portrayal of what is actually real alpine climbing, check out Mark Twight's books. He's a hard core badass. Those fools on Everest are just tourists w/ SCUBA tanks, they are not to be confused with real alpine climbers. I just thought I should clarify. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:27:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Far more people die on interstate highways every year. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:29:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Summit fever is a real phenomenon. Lack of oxygen and single mindedness lead to really poor, and sometimes deadly, decisions. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:30:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It kinda has to be though. You can't exactly send clean up crews. And losing weight is a big deal to those climbers |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:30:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The biggest problem in 96 was the incompetence of the tour guides. There are strict turn around times so you can get back to camp safely, summit achieved or not. These were completely ignored and people died for it. The Texas guy that lost body parts also went snow blind early on(one of the first LASIK patients to go high altitude climbing, found some problems) and they just left him on the mountain saying they'd help him down when they return from the summit. Which didn't happen because they didn't turn around on schedule. PRK and LASIK (and IOLs) do not have these issues at altitude. NASA will even let Astronauts get LASIK. https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/676322main_Kohnen%20JCRS%202012.pdf |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:31:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The mountain itself isn't that hard to climb, it's that last 800ft of the Death Zone that gets you. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:33:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm proud to say my only (non altitude) descent that went poorly was a close call - crampon points ripped all the way through clothing & gaiters but just scratched the skin. That day we had summitted a 4000 footer in New Hampshire in February, while we were on the summit, a storm came in. You could put your foot in the snow, take it out & watch it till with snow almost instantly. Icicles in beard, snow all along one side. Wind howling so you couldn't shout & be heard.I 
I miss it. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:33:44 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:35:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read "Into Thin Air" |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:42:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Whites are no joke. Bottom line is that storms shut people down. Strong people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm proud to say my only (non altitude) descent that went poorly was a close call - crampon points ripped all the way through clothing & gaiters but just scratched the skin. That day we had summitted a 4000 footer in New Hampshire in February, while we were on the summit, a storm came in. You could put your foot in the snow, take it out & watch it till with snow almost instantly. Icicles in beard, snow all along one side. Wind howling so you couldn't shout & be heard.I
I miss it. The Whites can do it - to include 200+ mph winds. You don't mock the mountain. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:45:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For one inaccurate account of what happened. 
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:46:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Watching the true story about the 96 tragedy it's hard to believe people put themselves in those kind of environments to say " I went where many haven't. " Because it is there, because it is the highest, etc draws many in. Yes the 6.5% fatality rate vs 4000 summits looks bad compared to say, human spaceflight... but the rate is much lower if you include all attempts. That said, I wouldn't climb Everest for many reasons. However I would totally take a helicopter ride to the top with some O2 cans and ski down on the right day.  Failed To Load Title Quoted:
I don't even know if that really applies so much anymore. Problems often arise (including during the '96 tragedy) because so many people are going up at once. Kind of a mircale less than 2 dozen were killed and only a few dozen injured by the 2015 avalanches caused by the earthquake:  Hit by Avalanche in Everest Basecamp 25.04.2015 But literally hundreds of climbers were on the mountain and were stranded. Quoted:
Those fools on Everest are just tourists w/ SCUBA tanks, they are not to be confused with real alpine climbers. I just thought I should clarify. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:47:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Drove a car to the top of a 14’er in Colorado last year
Enjoyed it I’ll pass on Everest |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:50:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go read one of the books about the 96 disaster then step back and think about it. I don't need to have met them to see the blatant and lethal mistakes they made. They ignored their own rules and people died. It's likely everyone lives if they held to the turn around time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok. So, you knew these "tour guides" or climbed with someone who knew or worked with them? 
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:52:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Far more people die on interstate highways every year. 
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Posted: 1/28/2018 9:59:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does reading one of Krakauer's books sitting next to a colleague of one of those "tour guides" count? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203937/_DSC0003Az-434535.jpg |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:01:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
isn't it often edema of some form? that sounds like fun |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:04:16 PM EDT
[#30]
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:07:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Id like to just see it someday.
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:07:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please, please please be reading " Into the Wild " ... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does reading one of Krakauer's books sitting next to a colleague of one of those "tour guides" count? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203937/_DSC0003Az-434535.jpg The bag at the far right of the photo? Here's that bag about 8 days later .... 
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:10:01 PM EDT
[#33]
I really claim no wisdom on this subject but have to comment .
The whole thing about most folks getting into trouble on the way down only makes sense . You have gravity working more or less with you but everything else is worse. A climber would be much more tired , hungry and O2 starved on the way down than earlier in the day on the way up |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:14:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Those climbers are brave as hell. It’s a thrill. But gambling with you life is not something I’d prefer to mess with.
Weather changes in a heartbeat. Then your trying to travel light on low supplies and equipment to beat a storm. It’s such a fine line. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Anyone on arf been to everest or k2?
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:18:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone on arf been to everest or k2? |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:18:41 PM EDT
[#37]
You just have to understand. If you don't you never will.
 Lord Huron - Ends of the Earth (Official Music Video) |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:19:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not that I am aware of. The one guy I know personally had to be brought down by chopper from above the ice fall. Won't even talk about it. The mountain broke him. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Into Thin Air, a year after it was first published. The bag at the far right of the photo? Here's that bag about 8 days later .... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203937/climbing_027Cz-434566.jpg body of work in another thread. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:22:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clipping jumars into pre-placed fixed ropes and breathing out of a SCUBA tank is not mountain climbing. In reality, to the serious alpinist, pre-placed ropes are cheating and O2 bottles are much too heavy to be considered practical for the speeds necessary to move in the mountains safely. For a more realistic portrayal of what is actually real alpine climbing, check out Mark Twight's books. He's a hard core badass. Those fools on Everest are just tourists w/ SCUBA tanks, they are not to be confused with real alpine climbers. I just thought I should clarify. Supplemental O2 is not SCUBA or SCBA gas or tanks, and they are pretty fucking necessary above 26,000 ft. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:23:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you think Everest climbers are crazy, check out K2 |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:24:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does reading one of Krakauer's books sitting next to a colleague of one of those "tour guides" count? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203937/_DSC0003Az-434535.jpg Such amazing people here.  We just watched Meru last week. Incredible . Those guys are crazy. Seems to make Everest look like a morning walk the park. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:30:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It kinda has to be though. You can't exactly send clean up crews. And losing weight is a big deal to those climbers |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:48:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fair enough. We'll have address Jon Krakauer as a hack across his whole body of work in another thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Into Thin Air, a year after it was first published. The bag at the far right of the photo? Here's that bag about 8 days later .... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203937/climbing_027Cz-434566.jpg body of work in another thread. Krakauer probably despised Pitman with every ounce of his being. Pitman was a competent climber, but she was very structured in her climbing - for all of her major climbs, she used guide services, and for damn good reason. She wasn't "a real climber". She wasn't a real climber because she didn't pay her dues as a climbing bumb. Sitting around a campfire it would be obvious that she didn't stick her neck out on her own - and why would she? She didn't have time for that. She had a work schedule and life completely alien to most in the climbing community. She was competent, but she certainly wasn't a leader, not around those campfires. Basecamps are an amazing leadership crucible. 4 million years of human evolution playing into the guy feelings of everyone trying to size up everyone else. Who's going to team up with whom? Who's going to dare follow so and so? Who's on a fools errand? It's some pretty intangible stuff. It's a book in of itself. Krakauer was an outstanding climber - someone other climbers would have written about if he hadn't been the one writing about them. Krakauer would most likely be described as a reckless climber by most outsiders. Krakauer pushed his limits by himself. Pitman pushed her limits in the presence of professional guides. That Krakauer was being guided up Everest, well, that probably burned him up. Not being able to tackle the mountain on his own merits went against ever grain of his own being. It wasn't who he was as a climber, but it was how he paid the bills. He writes from his perspective. Everyone does. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:54:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We just watched Meru last week. Incredible . Those guys are crazy. Seems to make Everest look like a morning walk the park. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 10:55:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The main Everest routes are not particularly technical, especially with fixed ropes. Were Everest 3000ft shorter, nobody would consider it especially remarkable beyond the 14K of difference from basecamp to summit. The altitude makes it the challenge that it is. Everest has been skied several times. Fucking gnarly... made video hot. Welll worth the watch. This is what determination is. And suffering. Fuck high alpine big wall, but mad respect. Meru streams free on Amazon Prime Video |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 11:17:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup Everest is not even that bad compared to some. There are a lot of harder climbs out there. These guys know what they are getting in to when they get involved in the sport of mountaineer and climbing. Most of us long time climbers know people who paid the price. I stopped when I got married and had a family. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you think Everest climbers are crazy, check out K2 These guys know what they are getting in to when they get involved in the sport of mountaineer and climbing. Most of us long time climbers know people who paid the price. I stopped when I got married and had a family. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 11:45:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm proud to say my only (non altitude) descent that went poorly was a close call - crampon points ripped all the way through clothing & gaiters but just scratched the skin. That day we had summitted a 4000 footer in New Hampshire in February, while we were on the summit, a storm came in. You could put your foot in the snow, take it out & watch it till with snow almost instantly. Icicles in beard, snow all along one side. Wind howling so you couldn't shout & be heard.I
I miss it. There are fields in Kansas at 4000ft. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 11:51:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it was easy, everyone would do it. |
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Posted: 1/28/2018 11:59:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Holy shit, Meru was good. Arfcom wins again.
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