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Posted: 6/11/2021 12:14:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can someone please tell me whether or not this money to Jeff who is actually a “bail out” I don’t think BO is on the verge of bankruptcy. Isn’t this just congress funding HLS? Not a “bail out” per se, since Bezos is just pumping billions of his own personal money into Blue Origin. I don’t believe Blue Origin has ever actually made any money, so they have ALWAYS been in the red. Basically, it’s just Bezos saying that he’d rather be spending billions of YOUR (taxpayer) money on his own pet hobby company, than spending billions of his own personal money. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 2:47:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/446393/3C3109B4-B673-4B4E-9DFD-446B51BEF2B6-1974891.jpg SLS being lifted. Don’t stand under the load! Also, hard hats. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 5:22:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/446393/3C3109B4-B673-4B4E-9DFD-446B51BEF2B6-1974891.jpg SLS being lifted.  Attached FileIt's vertical right now, going up and over to the stack tonight. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 6:44:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/446393/3C3109B4-B673-4B4E-9DFD-446B51BEF2B6-1974891.jpg SLS being lifted. If I forget about the cost I'm getting excited to watch this thing launch. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 6:50:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I forget about the cost I'm getting excited to watch this thing launch. Yes, that could get ones eyeball twatching. |
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Posted: 6/11/2021 7:11:36 PM EDT
[#6]
NASA is where you are moved to on grounds of gross negligence and incompetence after being "fired" from another DoD program, because you can't actually be fired from civil service.
It's a trip that almost all of the "lessons learned" from acquisitions fuckups and engineering incompetence come from some NASA project. The only blessing here is that there is a new prime in town that NASA hasn't infected with their stink and NASA has some amount of POM funding that would otherwise be out of scope for the AF/SF. So at least some amount of funding is getting to competent people. I have to deal with some NASA "program managers" and "engineers" on some of my efforts. Jesus Christ, like dealing with drunk special needs children. |
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Posted: 6/12/2021 8:28:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NASA is where you are moved to on grounds of gross negligence and incompetence after being "fired" from another DoD program, because you can't actually be fired from civil service. It's a trip that almost all of the "lessons learned" from acquisitions fuckups and engineering incompetence come from some NASA project. The only blessing here is that there is a new prime in town that NASA hasn't infected with their stink and NASA has some amount of POM funding that would otherwise be out of scope for the AF/SF. So at least some amount of funding is getting to competent people. I have to deal with some NASA "program managers" and "engineers" on some of my efforts. Jesus Christ, like dealing with drunk special needs children. But aren’t COTS (commercial orbital transport services), Commercial Crew, and HLS simultaneously the best examples of competitive bidding programs and the future for NASA.? |
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Posted: 6/12/2021 5:55:48 PM EDT
[#8]
It's.. beautiful... Jupiter IV core stage is soft mated to the SRB's |
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Posted: 6/14/2021 10:00:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:13:32 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:14:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Nice!
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:16:09 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:18:15 AM EDT
[#13]
That thing is going to be soooooooo loud.
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:26:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That thing is going to be soooooooo loud. It's getting pretty exciting. There's lots of better pictures at https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasakennedy/ taken by the professional media guys. Has ISS stuff, space x and Boeing Starliner too. Pretty much all the goings on at KSC. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 1:44:45 AM EDT
[#15]
It won't launch this year. I'm guessing NET March-April 2022.
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Posted: 6/15/2021 2:05:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryPhotos like this show how enormous the VAB is. That thing is more than 200 feet tall and it looks tiny hanging in there. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 2:12:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Photos like this show how enormous the VAB is. That thing is more than 200 feet tall and it looks tiny hanging in there. One night they moved the VAB away from the tower at Vandenberg AFB, and since nobody was around, I drove through it. At that point in time Lockheed was in charge of the thing and was messing around with it for one of their Athena-2 Launches (1999). 
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Posted: 6/15/2021 8:28:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Starship might make it to orbit before any version of SLS but definitely will make it to orbit before "Block 2" which is the actual heavy lift version.
I don't know why they are even bothering with this version... it isn't the production version... it won't ever be built again or used for anything other than this one flight. I think... now I'm questioning myself that there might be like 4 flights with this version... basically until they run out of old shuttle engines and then they're never launching this version again. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 11:47:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One night they moved the VAB away from the tower at Vandenberg AFB, and since nobody was around, I drove through it. wut? 
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Posted: 6/15/2021 11:49:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That thing is going to be soooooooo loud. Shuttle x1.3 basically |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 11:50:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Starship might make it to orbit before any version of SLS but definitely will make it to orbit before "Block 2" which is the actual heavy lift version. I don't know why they are even bothering with this version... it isn't the production version... it won't ever be built again or used for anything other than this one flight. I think... now I'm questioning myself that there might be like 4 flights with this version... basically until they run out of old shuttle engines and then they're never launching this version again. This version will make at least three flights. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 11:51:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: wut? He is talking about the MSS. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 11:51:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This version will make at least three flights. This version will probably be the only version that flies |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:52:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It won't launch this year. I'm guessing NET March-April 2022. Isn't there a limit on how long the SRBs can stay stacked? |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 12:53:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't there a limit on how long the SRBs can stay stacked? Yes, but per Riverswine it can be waivered. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 1:14:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One night they moved the VAB away from the tower at Vandenberg AFB, and since nobody was around, I drove through it. At that point in time Lockheed was in charge of the thing and was messing around with it for one of their Athena-2 Launches (1999). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Photos like this show how enormous the VAB is. That thing is more than 200 feet tall and it looks tiny hanging in there. One night they moved the VAB away from the tower at Vandenberg AFB, and since nobody was around, I drove through it. At that point in time Lockheed was in charge of the thing and was messing around with it for one of their Athena-2 Launches (1999). The moved the actual Vehicle Assembly Building? Wow! I didn't know they could do that. Cool.  |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 2:19:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The moved the actual Vehicle Assembly Building? Wow! I didn't know they could do that. Cool. They didn’t. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 2:22:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This version will probably be the only version that flies You underestimate the power of pork. You think the inherent superiority of the Starship will make the SLS look silly and be canceled before Block 1b. It will make it look silly and it will linger on for at least a half-decade and likely a decade. You think results actually matter to congress. It’s doing what they want it to do which is spread money and doing it to perfection. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 3:04:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That thing is going to be soooooooo loud. Late to the thread, but they did an 8 minute Green Run at Stennis back in March. It was the second test (first ended prematurely) and once GR was a success, it allowed the rocket to be barged to Kennedy. I'm not sure the distance from the test stand in the video, but Stennis has at least 3 miles of clear area in all directions in case of issues.  SLS Green Run #2 - NASA Successfully Fires RS-25 Main Engines for 8 Minutes |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 3:09:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryFWIW - Boeing is on a Cost Plus contract and they're pretty good at ensuring there are 87 layers of cost. Boeing pulled work we were doing on a Firm Fixed Priced program and moved it to their Cost Plus, go figure. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 3:25:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Photos like this show how enormous the VAB is. That thing is more than 200 feet tall and it looks tiny hanging in there. Damn big place. Big rocket too. Is the VAB tall enough to stack starship? Looking at camparisons while the target mass capability of sls vs starship are similar starship is just huge in volume. Just the starship part is 3/4 the height and slightly larger diameter of the sls core. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 3:45:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryI tried to listen to that book but could not get into it. I got The Martian for free the other day (although regrettably it's the version narrated by Wil Wheaton) and I did pickup his new book that is seemingly perfect based on the reviews but I guess we'll see how this one turns out.
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Posted: 6/15/2021 3:47:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You underestimate the power of pork. You think the inherent superiority of the Starship will make the SLS look silly and be canceled before Block 1b. It will make it look silly and it will linger on for at least a half-decade and likely a decade. You think results actually matter to congress. It’s doing what they want it to do which is spread money and doing it to perfection. The EUS is at least 5 years away, IIRC |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 6:57:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a "bail out" per se, since Bezos is just pumping billions of his own personal money into Blue Origin. I don't believe Blue Origin has ever actually made any money, so they have ALWAYS been in the red. Basically, it's just Bezos saying that he'd rather be spending billions of YOUR (taxpayer) money on his own pet hobby company, than spending billions of his own personal money. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can someone please tell me whether or not this money to Jeff who is actually a "bail out" I don't think BO is on the verge of bankruptcy. Isn't this just congress funding HLS? Not a "bail out" per se, since Bezos is just pumping billions of his own personal money into Blue Origin. I don't believe Blue Origin has ever actually made any money, so they have ALWAYS been in the red. Basically, it's just Bezos saying that he'd rather be spending billions of YOUR (taxpayer) money on his own pet hobby company, than spending billions of his own personal money. Its not even billions for Bezos. Its for the HLS program as a whole which means Space X, BO, Grumman, and LockMart. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 7:00:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't there a limit on how long the SRBs can stay stacked? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It won't launch this year. I'm guessing NET March-April 2022. Isn't there a limit on how long the SRBs can stay stacked? |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 7:10:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NET is already Nov 4th. Unless something BIG goes wrong. Shes goin this year and Artemis II's core will be finished by then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It won't launch this year. I'm guessing NET March-April 2022. Isn't there a limit on how long the SRBs can stay stacked? I want to believe, and I hope you are right. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 7:31:37 PM EDT
[#37]
While I have my doubts, I suspect nasa will get this one off the ground before year end too, and I suspect it will fly the heavy lift version at least once for the James webb telescope, there's too much running on hubbles replacement to stop it.
after that though? why bother, SLS is doomed to be one of those niche items that were quickly obsoleted by superior designs. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 7:34:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to believe, and I hope you are right. If launch date gets pushed back to January 2022 I would be surprised. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 7:35:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While I have my doubts, I suspect nasa will get this one off the ground before year end too, and I suspect it will fly the heavy lift version at least once for the James webb telescope, there's too much running on hubbles replacement to stop it. after that though? why bother, SLS is doomed to be one of those niche items that were quickly obsoleted by superior designs. JWST is already starting its journey to be put on one of the sketchiest rockets available right now: Arianne V. In reality, it should be on an Atlas V Centaur. Why? Because ULA and Tory Bruno are the shit. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 7:51:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Yep, Webb don’t need it, Arianne 5is it’s ride.
Europa Clipper was supposed to ride SLS but it’s switched to Falcon Heavy. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 9:02:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn’t. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The moved the actual Vehicle Assembly Building? Wow! I didn't know they could do that. Cool. They didn’t. This guy thinks it moved. He seen it. |
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Posted: 6/15/2021 9:05:20 PM EDT
[#42]
For a government project the real cost will be double to triple the original plan and the schedule extended to double to triple the original estimate.
For SLS those reality multipliers may be higher |
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Posted: 6/29/2021 11:08:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a government project the real cost will be double to triple the original plan and the schedule extended to double to triple the original estimate. For SLS those reality multipliers may be higher oof. SLS is at 20billion and orion is near 23 bills. |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 12:45:07 AM EDT
[#44]
It had been expected that hard mate would be completed by the end of the day on June 22, but work to fully secure the bolted connection was taking longer than anticipated. Ideally the mating surfaces would be perfectly flat, but there is some tolerance for the rings on the LVSA and the Core Stage not completely touching; however, sources noted gaps that were out of tolerance that needed to be addressed. https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/06/artemis-1-stacking-continues/ |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 7:55:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: It had been expected that hard mate would be completed by the end of the day on June 22, but work to fully secure the bolted connection was taking longer than anticipated. Ideally the mating surfaces would be perfectly flat, but there is some tolerance for the rings on the LVSA and the Core Stage not completely touching; however, sources noted gaps that were out of tolerance that needed to be addressed. https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/06/artemis-1-stacking-continues/ That article is a pile of hot garbage, the only part with any truth is poorly explained. Should make great fuel for the haters though. |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 8:51:44 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That article is a pile of hot garbage, the only part with any truth is poorly explained. Should make great fuel for the haters though. The only thing I hate about the program is the incredible amount of wasted taxpayer funds due to bureaucracy. We went from hardly having a space program to landing men on the moon in 10yrs. How long has this program been going? |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 10:14:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing I hate about the program is the incredible amount of wasted taxpayer funds due to bureaucracy. We went from hardly having a space program to landing men on the moon in 10yrs. How long has this program been going? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That article is a pile of hot garbage, the only part with any truth is poorly explained. Should make great fuel for the haters though. The only thing I hate about the program is the incredible amount of wasted taxpayer funds due to bureaucracy. We went from hardly having a space program to landing men on the moon in 10yrs. How long has this program been going? https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3737/1  |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 11:24:03 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's getting pretty exciting. There's lots of better pictures at https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasakennedy/ taken by the professional media guys. Has ISS stuff, space x and Boeing Starliner too. Pretty much all the goings on at KSC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That thing is going to be soooooooo loud. It's getting pretty exciting. There's lots of better pictures at https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasakennedy/ taken by the professional media guys. Has ISS stuff, space x and Boeing Starliner too. Pretty much all the goings on at KSC. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 1:35:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They never funded Ares/Constellation/SLS worth a shit. I'm honestly surprised they have the damn thing mated at this point. All they've done for the last decade is basically fund a joint NASA/Boeing program office to have a bunch of mid/high-level managers have meetings and push CDRL's around and occasionally they get lucky and some hardware/software plops out. https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3737/1 https://www.thespacereview.com/archive/3737c.jpg big difference between having an unlimited budget to do the impossible and an existential fear that communism might actually win compared to taking every step to insure maximum profit taken and being ready justifying your actions to powerful senators at every level. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 6:56:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Second stage went up and over to the stack this week.
Media crew has some new pictures posted up https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasakennedy/ |
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