Some college ball would have greatly improved him

That's not what he's been saying, but it was a good try.

Sorry your boy is about to lose another trip to the finals.

Not a fan of either team in the finals, also highly critical of LBJ’s antics, so that was a poor effort. I just recognize that he’s the GOAT on the court.

No, lol you are performing mental gymnastics to maintain your narrative.

If he was so good, why did they want to trade him for Shawn Kemp half way through the 2 3peats? Scottie and Kemp met in the finals. Scottie averaged 16/8 and Kemp averaged 23/10 and guarding each other



Shawn Kemp:


People who were or are Jordan haters have all these false beliefs that they cling to. Time and time again I show them stats to bring them down to reality yet their dodging of the truth still continues. People would rather win an internet argument than be correct.

No, the narrative that Lebron is dragging a trash team to the finals for years and years is wrong

Can you not read? Can you not comprehend? Your pot kettle argument sucks.

I hand out losses left and right on this site with facts and empirical evidence.

Nobody is convinced by your affirmations and silly rhetorical questions.

Lol, do you even comprehend your own writing?

I was saying the same as this article in what I wrote above but you are so busy nut gobbling Jordan to understand.

https://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/9/9290999/nba-90s-scottie-pippen-michael-jordan

Lol an 11pg on GD about basketball.

Lebron James is a shithead of the highest order, he can go bunk with his bff Hillary with the other losers.

Well if we're going to start quoting sports analysts opinions

What is it you are trying to prove?

This Cavs team without LeBron is a lottery team and you know it.

Depends on who you put in place of Lebron but likely much better than that, the east is quite weak. Look at Boston making it to the conference finals for pete's sake.

You said Pippen had lower numbers because he was playing with the GOAT. If you had been paying attention ITT you see that Love is putting up better numbers this series than Pippen has. I think I stated that multiple times. If Lebron is the GOAT how is that happening? Perform mental gymnastics on that! You then posted an article saying Pippen was the 2nd greatest of the 90s, and that's bunk. Are you lost somehow?

I have not said Lebron is the GOAT. For the cavaliers to score 100+ points a night someone else has to score.

LeBron is great and all, maybe even the goat, but I just don’t see how LBJ plus one other good player (Love) can compete with a team of that has 4 all stars. The probability of at least one of them being hot any given night is just too great.

LeBron racks up a triple double and the Cavs pretty much shut down 3 golden state all stars... then the 4th golden state all star is allowed to run amok. Lol, they just got no chance. I was really hoping for a Cavs/Houston finals.

On the upside, I admit it’s a much more competitive series than I thought it was going to be. Literally a bucket or two and a reversed call here or there and this could just as easily be the Cavs up on GSW 2-1.

What needs to happen is this. Lebron needs to play more off the ball. Right now he just camps when not being utilized. The offense becomes stale when he runs it the way he has. Too much focus on very simple drive and kick. Korver hasn't done well in that setting.

Curry got open too much in game 2. If a guy makes 9 3s, you didn't guard him close enough. Only Durant, Klay and Curry have been making 3s, stick to them like glue. Overguard out at 3 point range, if they get by you its Green or other shitty 3 point shooters if they kick and nobody too overpowering down low. If Curry is red hot and burying 3s from half court, don't even let him get the fricken ball. Wear down Curry with Hill running everywhere. Hill at this point has some PTSD or something from game 1, don't let him shoot. Have him overguard Curry when he gets hot.

Durant is a fair weather player and you can't let them get confidence because that's when Durant really hurts you. Leave him wide open if the team is down by 4 though. Durant is good at beating a 1v1 on the pick and roll but if he's guarded well, he doesn't pass well and he tends to force shots.

Not utilizing the Tristan Thompson pick and roll enough. They can get a switch onto curry or some other weak Warriors defender and run a pick and roll all day long IF Cavs don't suck and miss all the bailout 3s. If they miss them, Warriors will leave them open and double Lebron, effectively subduing Clevelands offense (since they didn't get Deandre.)

They don't utilize Love enough in the post. He's decent down there and Warriors have no shot blocker. Though he's gotta learn when to get rid of it quick as I saw him try and go 3 on 1 and not score. Should talk to Shaq as he was the master of passing out of the double.

Like I said, if Hill hit that last freethrow, they would have won game 1. Game 2, Cleveland didn't react well to Lebron getting double and triple teamed (which they should have expected with Lebron dropping 51 on their ass).

edit well I should have said "needed to happen" in the intro as this series is over at 3-0.

Every team is hiring coaching staff and clearing cap soace

Here's the deal: Nobody wins an NBA championship without at least two elite scorers. It's always been that way. When your elite scorers also play good defense, dynasties occur. Golden State has three elite scorers, two of whom play good defense. When James had an elite scorer, his teams won championships too.

Make Curry the only scoring threat on his team, and he won't be an elite scorer anymore. He averaged less then 20 ppg before Green and Thompson joined the team. Curry depends heavily on space created by defenders moving off him to deal with Durant, Thompson, and to some extent Green. Durant couldn't win a championship at OKC even with two other elite scorers.

James is without question the best player currently playing. He's putting together an individual playoff performance that only a handful of players have ever approached. The fact that so many people are complaining about him and detracting from him is laughable. It's frankly just ill-informed. The main "criticism" leveled at James is that he might not be as good as Jordan. Think about that.

Dan Gilbert is a joke. James left Cleveland because Gilbert wouldn't pay to get anybody to play with him. James engineered a team in Miami that won two championships. That's way better than front office "geniuses" like Sam Presti. James returned to Cleveland because he had guaranteed help with Irving. James, along with most NBA pundits, grossly overestimated Love's skillset based on big numbers he put up on a bad team. Trading Wiggins for Love was a huge mistake. Nonetheless, the team won a championship with a healthy Irving.

Notice how in Miami people criticized James for going to a team where he was not top dog, but now they say he won't play on a team with other good players? Gilbert caved to Irving's trade demands. James did not want Irving traded. As usual Gilbert fucked himself, his team, and James's future in Cleveland in the process. Irving is a weird cat (flat-earther, at least for a while). It will be interesting to see what he  does in Boston.

James has been married to his high-school girlfriend for seven years. They have three children. By all accounts, he is a devoted father. He has never been in off-court trouble of any kind, criminal or personal. He is unselfish on the court and delivers in the clutch. He has won three NBA championships. The only all-time greats with more are O'Neal, Duncan, Bryant, Johnson, Jabbar, Jordan, and Russell. James is without question one of the five best players to ever touch a basketball.

What the hell are you all picking nits about, really?

This is a perfect example of the Bizarro universe that James haters live in. Apparently, James "wrecks" teams by winning championships, since he has won them with both of the teams he has played for. Maybe you'll get lucky and Houston will "wreck" that way again.

Jordan did. I wouldn't call 16/6 Pippen an elite scorer. If Pippen is an elite scorer, then so is Kevin Love 18/11. Then we have to ask, why can't Lebron win with 2 elite scorers?

Because GS has 4 elite scorers, and a coach that isn’t a sock puppet.

GS is also better than any team Jordan beat in the finals by a mile. Hell, the San Antonio team that choked away beating LeBron in the finals was better than any team Jordan beat in the finals.

I approve this sentiment.

He always said his “college” ball was under Pat Riley, he took that infrastructure from Miami back to Cleveland

Wait a minute, you mean the 90s NBA had roster talent thinned out by expansion teams, and that teams with major talent could pick them appart??!
Shocked I say!
Lebron losing Love and Kyrie to injury is an excuse,  MJ totally would have gotten to and won the finals against a dynasty (he was* playing for his eras Warriors) minus Pippen and Rodman.
"But muh excuses"

Dont you see how hard it is to be MJ, being the team favored to win and then winning, vs being an underdog team in all but one finals?

Oh and BTW Wade's knee was 100% totally healthy and he wasnt a hobbled player who was able to play better for longer by being moved to #2 by a best in the league player.

Also, Russell has 11 rings, therefore everyone else sucks and has excuses, because rings. But wait its not about rings because Jordan. But it is about rings cause Lebron, hurrrrrr.
Oh and apparently Phil Jackson "wasnt that good of a coach now", FYI.
Saw that gem a few pages ago.

I would like to see Lebron move to a team with a better coach and a second scoring player. There's a good chance he would drag that team, his 3rd team, to the finals again, but hey thats not impressive, so says the experts who stopped watching basketball in 1998 but know everything.

At least 10.5 pages of Lebron hate, not even Hillary had that much

You really don’t like Pippen, does dissing him make Michael Jordan’s cock bigger in your mind? He’s on the 50 greatest players list for a reason.

May have won the game  
Did GSW have any more time outs? I was thinking there were 4secs left in the game. That's plenty of time for Steph, Klay or Durant to get a shot off.

East is weak but Boston had injuries. They'll probably beat Cle next year, more so if James is gone

4 Elite scorers? Besides Curry and Durant... who? Klay at #45 for season leaders under ESPNs rating system? lol http://www.espn.com/nba/seasonleaders
Kerr is overrated and doesn't know how to coach in the final 2 minutes.

So Lebron can't beat great teams, that doesn't help him much in the GOAT dept.

Pippen averaged 20.05 points per game during the Bull's championship years. That's elite scoring when you're playing with the league's leading scorer who was a high-volume shooter. Pippen was an all-time great finisher on the break and could create his own shot.

Love averages 17.25 ppg with Cleveland and cannot create his own shot. He is currently Cleveland's second-best player. Love would probably not start for at least half of the NBA's teams. He probably wouldn't play more than a few minutes a game for Golden State, if at all. Pippen is a far superior player to Love in every phase of the game, with the possible exception of rebounding. I suspect that if Pippen filled Love's role, he would out-rebound Love, but that wasn't Pippen's role. That was Rodman/Grant.

Kerr doesn't call timeout and Warriors play like shit in the final few seconds. Kerr likes to "let em play." Didn't you watch the Houston series?

Pippen was 27th in the league in scoring in '93 as I posted last page. I wouldn't call that "elite"

Love can create his own shot, his post game does just that.

edit Love is also a career 37% 3pt shooter and shot 42% this year. That's decent.

Pippen was a career 33% 3pt shooter, mediocre.

What effin list are you looking at? Skip Bayless disagrees, says Pippen is NOT a top 50 player. Probably knows 1000x more about basketball than you do

edit: I take that back, Bayless said he wasn't a top 50 player unless he played with Jordan.

Yup said the same thing in this thread or maybe it was the other.
GSW kept rolling last year while Kerr was out with back surgery. I found it funny he came back just in time to for that ring.
Guess he figured he better or find himself looking for another job

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History

I don't like Kerr, don't think he's that great. Product of his talent, feel the same way about Phil Jackson but if they had called a T/O I think there was a chance of hitting a game winner

I will concede that I am wrong on that point and he probably is a top 50 player.

edit because Jordan made him one

I remember Curry couldn't even beat Love. They tend to fall apart in the last few seconds. They rely on runs in the 3rd and blowing out their opponents.

Yes, and Love is well below 50% shooting when he's backing people down in the post. He sucks at it. Creating your own shitty shot doesn't help your team.

27th in scoring is high for any second-option player. (Love is 37th this year.) There are only so many possessions in a game. Jordan shot almost 23 times per game with those Bulls teams. That leaves maybe 75 possessions for everyone else's shots and everybody's turnovers, fouls, shot clock violations, etc. How much over 20 are you expecting Pippen to score? Trying to argue Pippen is not an elite-level player is just silly. He's an all-time great second fiddle, maybe the best ever. Are you trying to argue that Jordan's championship teams are comparable to the teams LeBron has lost in the finals with? I'm not sure I'm seeing your point.

It takes more than one great player to beat a great team, and coaching helps.

LeBron doesn’t have that in Cleveland. Michael didn’t have it in Washington. LeBron did more on a bad team than Michael did.  When MJ played for Chicago he had a great supporting team and a HOF coach. Best LBJ could manage was Miami where he had a good supporting team and another sock puppet coach.

Kerr is not a great coach, but he’s a hell of an improvement over Spoelstra and Lue.

Golden State lacks as many elite scorers as CLE ... that’s why they lose in the finals every year... oh wait, it’s not that way at all.  Oh and they get smoked in the regular season... oh... they score like wildfire all season without elite scoring... how does that work again?

Love is 45% at the Jump hook 3-10 ft (32 for 71) in 2017-2018. Not well  below. Definitely a viable option.

In that same season, I counted 8 other teams that had 2nd options better than Pippen. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1993_per_game.html

Pippen may be an all around great player, great 2nd fiddle, but he's not an elite scorer. That title is reserved for a few each year.

I remember Pippen as an elite assist and defensive player that could take a clutch layup or shot when needed.

Cavs are winning 4 straight, Lebron is just playing with you guys

Are we just gonna ignore that 2016 Lebron was the #8th scorer and also had the #11 scorer Kyrie Irving scoring 25ppg? The same Kyrie that dropped 41 in the finals and hit one of the clutchest shots in history? Then replaced him with Thomas who was an even higher ppg scorer... (though he didn't pan out because 2 huge egos do not work in a clubhouse)

Are we really going to compare a 38-40 on court coach MJ to prime Lebron?

Lebron had a GREAT supporting team in Miami. Also that great team only won 2 games in the finals against the #3 seed in the west Mavericks. 26ppg Wade and 19ppg Bosh (better than many teams 2nd option). Plus they had Mike Miller who was clutch for them, and in later years added Ray Allen, and Chris Anderson / Battier / Chalmers playing well above expectations.

And Kerr isn't better than Spoelstra or Lue.

Everyone keeps talking about how LeBronze teammates are trash.  He's the one that wanted Cleveland to trade for Kevin Love and he's the one who ran off their other all-Star Kyrie Irving.

He's also the one earlier in the year putting pressure on the team to make trades because he didn't think they were good enough to win it all.  Lebron has been the defacto GM in Cleveland for 4 years.

Dude has 6 Finals loses even after trying his best to create super teams in Miami and Cleveland.  He owns it.  He isn't some kind of innocent victim.

That what he wants. He doesn’t want a supporting cast.

Cavs win- LeBron did it with no help
Cavs lose- LeBron has no help

It’s all about Lebron, not about winning championships

Hard to argue with this.

Well there is the small matter that LeBron has faced tougher opponents in the playoffs/finals than MJ’s Bulls ...

And Kerr is definitely better than the sock puppets (though not great).