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Posted: 7/15/2021 10:15:18 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if, instead of pure balkanization, we went with more autonomy? They have autonomous regions in Europe, Spain has some, Tyrol in Italy. I know, the commies will never give up power, but it's nice to dream... |
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Posted: 7/15/2021 10:16:22 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish more people understood this. Every red state in the country is deep blue in the cities. States will not Balkanize because your neighbors will outvote you. Texas will be blue in the next 20 years along with a lot of other currently red states.. This is a cultural collapse, not a political one. If the Federal govt. Does somehow collapse like the former Soviet Union, the reformation into new balkanized territories won't look anything at all like the states do now. Especially because the coasts are vital to economic survival. The problem is that there is any kind of federal government at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: More like urban vs rural. If the Federal govt. Does somehow collapse like the former Soviet Union, the reformation into new balkanized territories won't look anything at all like the states do now. Especially because the coasts are vital to economic survival. The problem is that there is any kind of federal government at all. Nah, we do. All you have to do is go look. https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/521abb79e4b0ee5879077f61/1596711260740-6TPHSAM7D8W405MWOJZG/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kMIuRKGY_cJlm06hbUePzuZ7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0gE-MTAm8DsQU86Q9ttiZh2aLOSsLIYAx3HOgAI2FiqmcIx_lMwENEQztb-PbFehgQ/nationwide_241000.png?format=2500w That said: you don't need purity for places to be better or worse for any given person to live in. We also need to push for in-state revisions to get rid of the tyrannical one-man-one-vote nonsense, because that's a pretty way of saying majority tyranny, anyone not like the majority gets no representation and can just go hide in the closet, you dirty political perverts. |
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Posted: 7/15/2021 10:21:20 PM EST
[#3]
What system (or systems) of governence we end up with will rises from the ashes.... in other words, it will all have to be burnt to the ground first. Their will be no easier 'part and parcel' fixes.
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Posted: 7/15/2021 10:47:47 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: as a southern conservative, Yes. |
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Posted: 7/15/2021 10:51:42 PM EST
[#5]
This would be a fucking disaster, and soon after foreign actors would be onstage to take over all of it...
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Posted: 7/15/2021 11:13:02 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This would be a fucking disaster, and soon after foreign actors would be onstage to take over all of it... Already there. Excluding Trump; since Bush the elder, our leadership has subscribed to foreign influences, or outright been paid off for influence. |
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Posted: 7/15/2021 11:23:53 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish more people understood this. Every red state in the country is deep blue in the cities. States will not Balkanize because your neighbors will outvote you. Texas will be blue in the next 20 years along with a lot of other currently red states.. This is a cultural collapse, not a political one. If the Federal govt. Does somehow collapse like the former Soviet Union, the reformation into new balkanized territories won't look anything at all like the states do now. Especially because the coasts are vital to economic survival. The problem is that there is any kind of federal government at all. If the .fed collapses, there won’t be cities to worry about voting blue. We just gotta truck in enough water to keep them eating each other. |
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Posted: 7/15/2021 11:37:06 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This would be a fucking disaster, and soon after foreign actors would be onstage to take over all of it... I would argue that a far greater disaster would be a unified United States gone full-bore socialist/collectivist-woke fascist, which is where we're heading now. A fascistic America would be FAR more terrifying than the USSR or Nazi Germany ever were. The world is going to have to learn to rely on regional security agreements and not the USN or USMC from now on. Because we're no longer reliable anyway. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:18:37 AM EST
[#9]
No. Fuck no. What are you guys thinking. There are better ways of winning.
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:30:51 AM EST
[#10]
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:40:25 AM EST
[#11]
Interesting times. I wonder if people in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire thought things would always be the same?
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:43:54 AM EST
[#12]
I moved to Texas to be free.
I would move back to Washington to **** commies in a non-US-law setting. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:55:03 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would argue that a far greater disaster would be a unified United States gone full-bore socialist/collectivist-woke fascist, which is where we're heading now. Quote HistoryQuoted: I would argue that a far greater disaster would be a unified United States gone full-bore socialist/collectivist-woke fascist, which is where we're heading now. Completely correct. Damn it. Quoted:A fascistic America would be FAR more terrifying than the USSR or Nazi Germany ever were. An image that quite thoroughly is going to ruin an old man's sleep for many nights to come. Hopefully others too. Quoted:The world is going to have to learn to rely on regional security agreements and not the USN or USMC from now on. Because we're no longer reliable anyway. Our present pols are reliably unreliable. If the military could be wrenched out of sensitivity training taking precedence, it would be more feared. (As it should be.) Joe un-woke Average (who is still, I think, in large numbers, just staying under radar)will soon be pushed by the left, to a pushback slowjoe and kammy never dreamed of, and should have prepared for. Or it could just be that old man with the ruined sleep, whistling past the graveyard of the American Experiment, watching the pols melt down lady Liberty for her copper, slagging the Liberty Bell for a massive BLM fist, and razing the Lincoln Memorial for the columns, to be recarved into slowjoe, stalin, and marx. If the 2022 elections do not wash a lot of the D-turds out of the House and Senate, this country is more screwed than a regiment of hardware stores. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 2:18:12 AM EST
[#14]
Not very accurate maps of the divisions in this country. As stated it's more urban big city vs rural and small towns. Urban teaches dependence on government and other formalized legal organizations and institutions whilst rural and small town teaches do it yourself or do without and at times if needed rely on family or friends. Big cities and their sprawling suburbs grow dependence on public transportation, government services, HOA's, etc.... Rural and small town force people to rely more on themselves and voluntary associations with friends and family.
It's moral frameworks that are to an extent based on what is most expedient to the individual. Big cities have the people and capital to provide more services while small town and rural can't provide regular and extensive public transportation or government and government affiliated services. In Big cities there are huge bureaucracies that accumulate power and money - large impersonal teachers unions and school administrations, large professional government unions and professions police, fire etc... Small towns and rural have fewer police and they live and are from the communites they police, many volunteer fire departments, teachers are known members of the communities whose kids share the same schools, school boards and local political offices are often held by non-career politicians, many paid nominal fees or volunteer or part time. Big city - well someone needs to do something - pass a law - raise taxes - send the fill in the blank agency/organization to fix it. Small town and rural - well we need to work to fix this... |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 2:24:59 AM EST
[#15]
I think cities should broken off from states and counties so that there is not direct conflicts of interest between the two.
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:17:25 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A house divided against itself cannot stand. We cannot continue half socialist and half free. ... this. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:23:49 PM EST
[#17]
Let's get it on, would love to see all the Democrats leave here.
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:25:48 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A house divided against itself cannot stand. We cannot continue half socialist and half free. And that right there is one of the greatest cons they have pulled off to date. They have way to many convinced that we are 50/50... I believe that is complete bullshit, I'd go as far as a 70/30 split in our favor. You can't trust a damned thing they "proclaim". |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:26:19 PM EST
[#19]
LOL ... I fucking wish
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:28:30 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryTAKE US OUT OF THE "HEARTLAND" BULLSHIT ..... I don't want to be in any kind of union with states like IL |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:43:52 PM EST
[#21]
does not matter if you want to balkanize or not, once it starts your damn sure moving if your in the wrong area, either voluntarily or via being forced to. or you can stay, and be murdered by your neighbors who hate your guts.
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:46:29 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's get it on, would love to see all the Democrats leave here.  T. Rex - Bang a Gong (Get It On) (Official Audio) |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:47:58 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit. Your talents can only be used for evil! And all your talents belong to me, Warlord BladedRonin!!!!!!! i'm a very bad man but sometimes i try real hard to be good. 
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:49:51 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What system (or systems) of governence we end up with will rises from the ashes.... in other words, it will all have to be burnt to the ground first. Their will be no easier 'part and parcel' fixes. Lots and lots of people have to die, on one side or the other. It'll be uglier than anyone can imagine. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:52:45 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is, TX is probably half those numbers. Or not |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:53:58 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Fuck no. What are you guys thinking. There are better ways of winning. go on... |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:57:20 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Fuck no. What are you guys thinking. There are better ways of winning. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 12:58:11 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: go on... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No. Fuck no. What are you guys thinking. There are better ways of winning. go on... Reminds me of the old joke about the old bull & young bull up on a hill looking down at a pasture of cows... |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:01:32 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryGive Ohio to the west cost. Nobody wants Ohio. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:02:41 PM EST
[#30]
How about "no."
We are not going to give up key resources and geography to a bunch of communists and weirdos. Secession is not the answer. We need our access to the Pacific and despite all its disfunction the Western States do have a lot of valuable resources. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:05:23 PM EST
[#31]
I'm fine with secession. The country was and is not a nation. Of course, governors could actually start refusing federal bribe money and use their existing power to stand up to federal mandates. They have that power RIGHT now, and they could also punch down to the cities and make them also refuse federal grants/loans (as the state incorporates the cities, they have power over all jurisdictions in the state).
The ONLY thing that holds the US together at this point is the marketplace, and when that tanks, and it will, hold onto your hats. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:12:29 PM EST
[#32]
It's a pipe dream.
CA, NY, HA, OR, WA, NV, etc are not the problem. MAJOR CITIES ARE THE PROBLEM. Go to the most Red State out there and stop into their major cities and it's the same. Come to Iowa and in Des Moines you will find the stereotypical Californian Liberal everywhere, go to upstate CA in the rural areas and you will find people closer to us rural Iowans. Any sort of balkanization will require all the lefties to leave their cities and move to "blue" States, and the rural people in Blue states to come to the Red ones. A lot of people will refuse to do that, especially the city people, they know they have the numbers and will just keep dragging states into Democrat laws. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:17:36 PM EST
[#33]
An easy way to solve this is more state autonomy. Weaker fed and more states rights but that will never happen. But in theory it could work to save the republic.
The biggest issue is not democrat or republican it is federal govt has become so big and run by non-elected officials. The way we save it is "downsize" the fed almost 90% and make states regulate themselves. The fed would get a 5% tax from everyone to maintain an military and protect our borders. We close 75-90% of our foreign bases and bring the military home to protect the home land. Dissolve the federal reserve and tell them to get bent. Dissolve almost all federal agencies and downsize the FBI by 80%. All federal LE will be FBI and it will be a tiny agency about the size of a local police force. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:18:03 PM EST
[#34]
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:22:56 PM EST
[#35]
If we had a republican president and congress, you could probably swap those numbers. The only reason fewer dems want to split is they are in control right now.
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:28:00 PM EST
[#36]
It's the best of a whole host of terrible options.
Frankly our realistic options are to undergo continuously increasing centralization of power to the cities/feds - or to break apart. The second option is awful as far as the world stage is concerned. The first option is awful as far as freedom goes. Hell of a choice but I know where my bet is on the best outcome. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:29:40 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This would be a fucking disaster, and soon after foreign actors would be onstage to take over all of it... Why do you think the French helped? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Or the fact it was one theater in their global war against England? |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:31:59 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. There is no peaceful resolution here. The only way this gets resolved is if they go, or we go. Lots and lots of people have to die, on one side or the other. It'll be uglier than anyone can imagine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What system (or systems) of governence we end up with will rises from the ashes.... in other words, it will all have to be burnt to the ground first. Their will be no easier 'part and parcel' fixes. Lots and lots of people have to die, on one side or the other. It'll be uglier than anyone can imagine. Burnham covered this already:   |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:32:19 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A house divided against itself cannot stand. We cannot continue half socialist and half free. Communism will fix that. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:32:27 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Fuck no. What are you guys thinking. There are better ways of winning. Let me guess. In 2022, we take back the House and Senate, and in 2024 we take back the WH, and then we can all live happily ever after? The situation is not fixable at this point. The basic problem isn't just political, it's sociocultural. We have two different worldviews that are simply not compatible and never will be. There is no reconciliation to be had here. Individual liberty and collectivism are not compatible and never will be. There are three paths to take here - and only three: 1) We surrender, bend the knee, and all become collectivists. 2) We fight to the death. Only one side continues to exist at the end of it. 3) We separate, and then each faction governs itself as it sees fit. There are no other options. Which of these do you prefer? |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:38:50 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryI'm okay with this, although the coast of VA is shit blue. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:39:18 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like urban vs rural. This is the reality of the situation... |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:40:48 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The situation is not fixable at this point. The basic problem isn't just political, it's sociocultural. We have two different worldviews that are simply not compatible and never will be. There is no reconciliation to be had here. Individual liberty and collectivism are not compatible and never will be. There are three paths to take here - and only three: 1) We surrender, bend the knee, and all become collectivists. 2) We fight to the death. Only one side continues to exist at the end of it. 3) We separate, and then each faction governs itself as it sees fit. There are no other options. Which of these do you prefer? You put it more succinctly than I could. Well said. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:41:55 PM EST
[#44]
Quoted: 47% of West Coast Dems, 66% of Southern Republicans Want to Secede From U.S. Support for forming a breakaway country reached 47 percent among Democrats in California, Oregon, Washington, Alaska and Hawaii. One-third of West Coast independents, or 33 percent, were in favor of succession, along with 27 percent of West Coast Republicans.[/i] Full story and more stats at link... So much healing.  Tell Hawaii to STFU. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:43:25 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New Year's eve will be the final barrier.... ??? |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 1:49:03 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We don't want Minnesota. Quote HistoryQuoted: We don't want Minnesota. dont blame you, Im here till retirement, at that point I would pack up my Texas birth certificate and head to the southern states |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 2:02:00 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perfectly stated... and yet there are goobers even on this site that think it will all be fixed in the "next elections"  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Steal an election, arrest supporters of the opposition, immediately open the borders and start flying illegals to every corner of the country while passing radical legislation. OMG why can't we just all put our differences aside and support America guys!?!?  Perfectly stated... and yet there are goobers even on this site that think it will all be fixed in the "next elections" It can't be fixed in the next election if everyone on our side walks away and refuses to vote. You know WHY Democrats got away with their cheating last election? Because the Right refused to get involved with campaigns and working the polls. Lazy and stupid gave the election to the Leftists. Funny how many people whine and bleat about things that are happening, then turn around and "go with the flow" if making a buck is involved. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 2:05:17 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It can't be fixed in the next election if everyone on our side walks away and refuses to vote. You know WHY Democrats got away with their cheating last election? Because the Right refused to get involved with campaigns and working the polls. Lazy and stupid gave the election to the Leftists. Funny how many people whine and bleat about things that are happening, then turn around and "go with the flow" if making a buck is involved. It's not going to be fixed in ANY election. The base problem isn't political, and it's not fixable at this point. See my comment above. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 2:17:44 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not going to be fixed in ANY election. The base problem isn't political, and it's not fixable at this point. See my comment above. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It can't be fixed in the next election if everyone on our side walks away and refuses to vote. You know WHY Democrats got away with their cheating last election? Because the Right refused to get involved with campaigns and working the polls. Lazy and stupid gave the election to the Leftists. Funny how many people whine and bleat about things that are happening, then turn around and "go with the flow" if making a buck is involved. It's not going to be fixed in ANY election. The base problem isn't political, and it's not fixable at this point. See my comment above. Well sure - but that's no reason to walk away and make it even easier for them to cheat and "win" via fraudulent means. Make them work for it - and maybe even make gains at the local level. There's no harm in still voting. Just don't bet the house on it doing anything. |
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Posted: 7/16/2021 2:27:17 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well sure - but that's no reason to walk away and make it even easier for them to cheat and "win" via fraudulent means. Make them work for it - and maybe even make gains at the local level. There's no harm in still voting. Just don't bet the house on it doing anything. 2020 showed us that even if our candidate *gains* 11 million real votes, the other side can simply fire up the printers and make even more. That doesn't mean that you don't take the two hours out of your day once every two years to go an do it. Sure, knock yourself out. But it's not going to stop what's coming. Understand where the culture war is going. They are going to keep pushing until people like us don't exist anymore. It's literally a mortal threat to the moral and social fabric of the nation. They will not stop until they have their woke-socialist utopia, and they'll use fascistic means to get it. They are coming for your kids. Ultimately, they will use the state to take them away from you if you raise them to be "bigots" - that's where we're heading. No election will fix that. Voting isn't going to fix that. Disabuse yourself of the illusion that it will, and you will see the situation more clearly. |
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