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Link Posted: 4/2/2021 9:17:10 AM EDT
[#1]
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Something something right to face your accuser.
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I think you are inferring to a separate issue where he actually goes to court. Not what he meant.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 9:43:27 AM EDT
[#2]
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Something something right to face your accuser.
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You're absolutely correct. He will get that chance in court.

At this point I don't think it's a money grab. If it was their lawyer should have released every single one of their instagram, twitter, and facebook pages. Holy shit, the amount of digital evidence they could take to court from the comments would be a gold mine.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#3]
So we not gonna talk about how much Big D likes to have his butthole touched?

Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:12:19 PM EDT
[#4]
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You're absolutely correct. He will get that chance in court.

At this point I don't think it's a money grab. If it was their lawyer should have released every single one of their instagram, twitter, and facebook pages. Holy shit, the amount of digital evidence they could take to court from the comments would be a gold mine.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Something something right to face your accuser.


You're absolutely correct. He will get that chance in court.

At this point I don't think it's a money grab. If it was their lawyer should have released every single one of their instagram, twitter, and facebook pages. Holy shit, the amount of digital evidence they could take to court from the comments would be a gold mine.


so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.' he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so, if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:14:53 PM EDT
[#5]
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So, because a woman has consensual sex with one or more OTHER people, or because she wants sex, just not up the butt, she is a whore and did not have a right to refuse Kobe?  That is messed up.
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He was criminally charged and went on trial for rape, but the witness was dragged through the mud so much she refused to testify. Kobe even said after the criminal trial ‘I thought it was consensual, but I see how she did not.’

The girl was a hoe, there was several different semens found on her underwear. And with Kobe, the sex was allegedly consensual, it was the anal sex that wasn’t.  Just what I’ve heard.


So, because a woman has consensual sex with one or more OTHER people, or because she wants sex, just not up the butt, she is a whore and did not have a right to refuse Kobe?  That is messed up.


not at all what i was saying, i was just explaining the case. not excusing Kobe's behavior at all. like i said, kobe essentially admitted the sex was not consensual. but the case turned into 'high profile rich NBA player vs local hotel worker.'

he did pay her a large settlement.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:24:47 PM EDT
[#6]
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so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.'  he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Something something right to face your accuser.


You're absolutely correct. He will get that chance in court.

At this point I don't think it's a money grab. If it was their lawyer should have released every single one of their instagram, twitter, and facebook pages. Holy shit, the amount of digital evidence they could take to court from the comments would be a gold mine.


so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.'  he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?

Money is part of it for civil suits like these, but usually not all of it. Due to the evidence standard dropping from beyond a reasonable doubt to preponderance of the evidence sometimes civil trials are the only way victims of serious crimes can get any kind of justice against their victimizer.

OJ, for example.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:25:59 PM EDT
[#7]
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Money is part of it for civil suits like these, but usually not all of it. Due to the evidence standard dropping from beyond a reasonable doubt to preponderance of the evidence sometimes civil trials are the only way victims of serious crimes can get any kind of justice against their victimizer.

OJ, for example.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Something something right to face your accuser.


You're absolutely correct. He will get that chance in court.

At this point I don't think it's a money grab. If it was their lawyer should have released every single one of their instagram, twitter, and facebook pages. Holy shit, the amount of digital evidence they could take to court from the comments would be a gold mine.


so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.'  he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?

Money is part of it for civil suits like these, but usually not all of it. Due to the evidence standard dropping from beyond a reasonable doubt to preponderance of the evidence sometimes civil trials are the only way victims of serious crimes can get any kind of justice against their victimizer.

OJ, for example.


gotcha, that makes sense.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:26:11 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:

so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.' he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so, if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Something something right to face your accuser.

You're absolutely correct. He will get that chance in court.

At this point I don't think it's a money grab. If it was their lawyer should have released every single one of their instagram, twitter, and facebook pages. Holy shit, the amount of digital evidence they could take to court from the comments would be a gold mine.

so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.' he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so, if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?
Leverage. Buzbee is kind of a tool, but the way he is using social media and the media itself to build public opinion and leverage for negotiating is unarguably a successful tactic.

Meanwhile, as previously mentioned, taking it to civil court before seeking criminal charges is also a wise tactic as it will force Watson to choose between potentially incriminating himself by testifying, or to sit back and keep his mouth shut, which could potentially lead to an easier victory in civil court for the accusers.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:36:11 PM EDT
[#9]
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He isn't asking dudes to touch his asshole, so not gay. Sorry.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:38:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Continuing on what I just posted, the potential of Watson incriminating himself, even unintentionally, I believe would be extremely high in these cases and his attorney would be an idiot to let him testify in any civil suits.

Example. Say he gets on the stand and he says yes, I had sexual contact with this/these women, including hand jobs, oral, butt play, etc, BUT it was all consensual!

Well, now he has confessed to having sexual contact, now the only argument is whether it was consensual. We're already half way there to proving he is a sex offender.

Now for both the civil suit, and potential criminal charges, the accuser just has to argue that it was sexual assault through coercion (a criminal act) and that she was placed into a situation where it was impossible to refuse. Whether it was because they were in a locked hotel room, or in Watson's home, and felt she couldn't escape. Or whether due to his intimidating presence and how aggressive (stated in every suit) he was they were in fear for their physical well being. Or whether due to comments Watson has made (in some suits) about their careers and them being in fear for their financial well being.

Much, much, easier to win those civil suits (preponderance) and even opened the door into winning a criminal charge, now that Watson has confessed to sexual contact.

Edit: Also, with any admission of consensual sexual contact, any questionable contents he made in messages AFTERWORDS now has context. As mentioned in multiple suits, him asking if they were alright afterwords, or apologizing for making them feel uncomfortable/etc, now has context to him crossing the line between professional and sexual predator. Makes the inference much easier.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:43:08 PM EDT
[#11]
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so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.' he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so, if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?
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It’s still for the money. If the girls are victims of sexual assault putting their names in public will only haunt them more. That’s the reason they aren’t releasing it.

Now if the girls didn’t get sexually assaulted and it’s all made up I could see them releasing the names so they could add in the inevitable thousand of demeaning tweets to the “pain and suffering” part of it.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:46:17 PM EDT
[#12]
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It's still for the money. If the girls are victims of sexual assault putting their names in public will only haunt them more. That's the reason they aren't releasing it.

Now if the girls didn't get sexually assaulted and it's all made up I could see them releasing the names so they could add in the inevitable thousand of demeaning tweets to the "pain and suffering" part of it.
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so this is what's odd to me now. civil trials are usually for money, but the defendant's lawyer has said 'there girls are not in this for the money.' he's also refusing to work with HPD citing a number of conflicts of interest.

so, if it's not a money grab, and they aren't going the criminal route, what's the end game here?

It's still for the money. If the girls are victims of sexual assault putting their names in public will only haunt them more. That's the reason they aren't releasing it.

Now if the girls didn't get sexually assaulted and it's all made up I could see them releasing the names so they could add in the inevitable thousand of demeaning tweets to the "pain and suffering" part of it.
I believe I saw that the only instances where identity can be protected through the end of the court case (in Texas) is when the accuser/victim is a minor. So if this goes through the end of court, all these women's identities will be revealed.

Which is another thing Florio mentioned when he said Watson needs to get into arbitration and settle/pay off these women/suits. If they really want to remain anonymous forever, they need to take the money before court, not through the court.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:50:56 PM EDT
[#13]
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He isn't asking dudes to touch his asshole, so not gay. Sorry.
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The act itself doesn't make him gay, but a man deriving sexual pleasure from having things inserted into his asshole does probably increase the probability that he is gay or bisexual.

Link Posted: 4/2/2021 12:57:44 PM EDT
[#14]
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He isn't asking dudes to touch his asshole, so not gay. Sorry.
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Did I say he was gay?  Aaron Hernandez fucked girls and "wasn't gay" either.

All I'm saying is it seems weird he just wants someone to stick a finger in his ass and then let him cum on their hands.

He doesn't want to see them naked, he hasn't asked for intercourse or even touched a single vagina.

Boy is sus.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 1:00:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Did I say two fingers? Better make it three.


Link Posted: 4/2/2021 1:24:03 PM EDT
[#16]
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Did I say he was gay?  Aaron Hernandez fucked girls and "wasn't gay" either.

All I'm saying is it seems weird he just wants someone to stick a finger in his ass and then let him cum on their hands.

He doesn't want to see them naked, he hasn't asked for intercourse or even touched a single vagina.

Boy is sus.
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Did I say he was gay?  Aaron Hernandez fucked girls and "wasn't gay" either.

All I'm saying is it seems weird he just wants someone to stick a finger in his ass and then let him cum on their hands.

He doesn't want to see them naked, he hasn't asked for intercourse or even touched a single vagina.

Boy is sus.

I wonder what would be a bigger hit to Watson's career: having it known he probably committed sexual assault against multiple women (like if he settled out of court pre-trial) or having it known he is gay/bi.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 2:12:22 PM EDT
[#17]
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I wonder what would be a bigger hit to Watson's career: having it known he probably committed sexual assault against multiple women (like if he settled out of court pre-trial) or having it known he is gay/bi.
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Well these days being gay is encouraged while being a sexual predator will get you cancelled.

However...

If he were to come out as gay it would be all we ever hear about him going forward. While I'm sure there are still plenty of football fans that don't care for the gays, I also doubt most would care about him actually being gay and would be more so pissed off about ESPN and company bringing it up constantly.

The predator thing would be practically memory holed and life would go on. The SJW's would probably make a big deal over it for a bit but the heat would die off, just like every other player who did dumb shit.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 2:31:12 PM EDT
[#18]
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Well these days being gay is encouraged while being a sexual predator will get you cancelled.

However...

If he were to come out as gay it would be all we ever hear about him going forward. While I'm sure there are still plenty of football fans that don't care for the gays, I also doubt most would care about him actually being gay and would be more so pissed off about ESPN and company bringing it up constantly.

The predator thing would be practically memory holed and life would go on. The SJW's would probably make a big deal over it for a bit but the heat would die off, just like every other player who did dumb shit.
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Times are different now with the woke mob, but still seems like the locker room culture in the NFL would not be very accepting of him if it came out he was guy.  Just my hunch.  

He can settle, confess he has a problem, go to "sex addiction" therapy, do some charity work, bob's your uncle, life goes on and he's still playing.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 2:32:52 PM EDT
[#19]
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He isn't asking dudes to touch his asshole, so not gay. Sorry.
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You don’t know that.

Link Posted: 4/2/2021 2:45:34 PM EDT
[#20]
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You don’t know that.

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True. I was just saying that just because he likes butt play from insta ho's, it doesn't make him "gay".
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 2:58:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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True. I was just saying that just because he likes butt play from insta ho's, it doesn't make him "gay".
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You don’t know that.



True. I was just saying that just because he likes butt play from insta ho's, it doesn't make him "gay".

Variety is the spice of life.  But he seems to like butthole pleasures exclusively. It's what gets him off.

Taint tickles feel good, but I've never blown my load because of it. Or demanded it 50 times. In a row.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 3:04:52 PM EDT
[#22]
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Well these days being gay is encouraged while being a sexual predator will get you cancelled.

However...

If he were to come out as gay it would be all we ever hear about him going forward. While I'm sure there are still plenty of football fans that don't care for the gays, I also doubt most would care about him actually being gay and would be more so pissed off about ESPN and company bringing it up constantly.

The predator thing would be practically memory holed and life would go on. The SJW's would probably make a big deal over it for a bit but the heat would die off, just like every other player who did dumb shit.
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I wonder what would be a bigger hit to Watson's career: having it known he probably committed sexual assault against multiple women (like if he settled out of court pre-trial) or having it known he is gay/bi.


Well these days being gay is encouraged while being a sexual predator will get you cancelled.

However...

If he were to come out as gay it would be all we ever hear about him going forward. While I'm sure there are still plenty of football fans that don't care for the gays, I also doubt most would care about him actually being gay and would be more so pissed off about ESPN and company bringing it up constantly.

The predator thing would be practically memory holed and life would go on. The SJW's would probably make a big deal over it for a bit but the heat would die off, just like every other player who did dumb shit.

What most people care about is irrelevant to the problem Watson coming out as gay would present and that is what his teammates would think.  NFL players might say all the right things in public (for the most part), but not many of going to happy about working closely with, sharing a lockeroom with, and showering with a gay guy.

And even if ownership/coaches/the SJW mob dictated that they must work with him, that would still be a detriment to the team's chances of success.  

I think if you took an anonymous poll of NFL players asking if they'd rather have a guy that paid an out of court settlement after sexual assault accusations against women or an openly gay guy as a teammate I think most would prefer the former.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 3:08:17 PM EDT
[#23]
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Times are different now with the woke mob, but still seems like the locker room culture in the NFL would not be very accepting of him if it came out he was guy.  Just my hunch.  

He can settle, confess he has a problem, go to "sex addiction" therapy, do some charity work, bob's your uncle, life goes on and she's still playing.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Well these days being gay is encouraged while being a sexual predator will get you cancelled.

However...

If he were to come out as gay it would be all we ever hear about him going forward. While I'm sure there are still plenty of football fans that don't care for the gays, I also doubt most would care about him actually being gay and would be more so pissed off about ESPN and company bringing it up constantly.

The predator thing would be practically memory holed and life would go on. The SJW's would probably make a big deal over it for a bit but the heat would die off, just like every other player who did dumb shit.


Times are different now with the woke mob, but still seems like the locker room culture in the NFL would not be very accepting of him if it came out he was guy.  Just my hunch.  

He can settle, confess he has a problem, go to "sex addiction" therapy, do some charity work, bob's your uncle, life goes on and she's still playing.

Exactly.  With one outcome most people would forget about it after a year and few of his teammates would probably care even before that.  With the other outcome it would stay with him his entire career and many NFL players wouldn't want to play with him (whether they'd admit it publicly or not).
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 3:44:22 PM EDT
[#24]
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True. I was just saying that just because he likes butt play from insta ho's, it doesn't make him "gay".
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No, butt requesting digits instead of grip is odd.

I could care less if he’s popping Pmags with his O-ring. If half of this shit is half true, he’s a creep and I actually feel sorry for the thots
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 6:30:50 PM EDT
[#25]
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You don’t know that.

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You don’t know that.




I do. If he were gay, one call to Los Angels and Colin Cowherd would be on the first flight to Houston. I suspect he would have zero problem fingering Watsons chili ring.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 6:39:22 PM EDT
[#26]
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not at all what i was saying, i was just explaining the case. not excusing Kobe's behavior at all. like i said, kobe essentially admitted the sex was not consensual. but the case turned into 'high profile rich NBA player vs local hotel worker.'

he did pay her a large settlement.
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10-4.  Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 6:46:17 PM EDT
[#27]
HPD has now received a criminal complaint and is conducting an investigation:
https://abc13.com/sports/report-concerning-deshaun-watson-filed-with-hpd/10475938/
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 6:54:09 PM EDT
[#28]
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HPD has now received a criminal complaint and is conducting an investigation:
https://abc13.com/sports/report-concerning-deshaun-watson-filed-with-hpd/10475938/
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They keep bringing up Watson interacting with women whom he did NOT sexually assault as if that's supposed to mean something.

Imagine Ted Bundy's lawyer parading around women who Bundy did NOT rape and murder.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 7:02:31 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


Times are different now with the woke mob, but still seems like the locker room culture in the NFL would not be very accepting of him if it came out he was guy.  Just my hunch.  

He can settle, confess he has a problem, go to "sex addiction" therapy, do some charity work, bob's your uncle, life goes on and he's still playing.
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Times are different now with the woke mob, but still seems like the locker room culture in the NFL would not be very accepting of him if it came out he was guy.  Just my hunch.  

He can settle, confess he has a problem, go to "sex addiction" therapy, do some charity work, bob's your uncle, life goes on and he's still playing.


When's the last time you heard someone mention Kareem Hunt's DV situation? Tyreek Hill's? Heck, Antonio Brown's sexual assault investigation is still happening and it's barely mentioned among the discussion of if he'll resign with the Bucs or not.

For some reference, read a bit of this article that highlights how Americans and American media just moves on... How an International Journalist Covered Tyreek Hill—and What It Says About Us

Last year, he wanted to do a story about Chiefs top receiver Tyreek Hill.

“We felt like every time we showed a Chiefs game in Denmark, we would have to discuss his issues,” Kjærsgaard-Rasmussen said over Zoom this week from his home country—because of the pandemic, he’ll miss his first Super Bowl in more than a decade. “We felt like we couldn’t praise him for everything he did on the field without also discussing the accusations off the field. It’s always tough. It’s tough figuring out, especially when you’re from Europe. Your [justice] system is difficult to understand.”

Hill was arrested back in 2014 for punching his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach and choking her. He would later plead guilty to domestic assault and battery by strangulation, which required three years of probation and anger management courses. In 2019, he was investigated for battering the couple’s three-year-old son. Neither Hill nor the mother were ever charged—the district attorney stated that he felt a crime had been committed, but he didn’t have enough evidence to charge anyone. Around that time, audio recordings of a conversation between Hill and his then fiancé included Hill saying, “You need to be terrified of me too, b----.”

If this isn’t a totally familiar story to you or if the details seem hazy, that’s because Hill is now almost exclusively discussed in terms of his speed on the field during U.S. football broadcasts. The football viewing public has moved on. The accounts are blanketed in vagaries.

The inability to penetrate a surface-level conversation puzzled Kjærsgaard-Rasmussen, who, during media sessions on Wednesday and Thursday of Super Bowl week last year, asked Hill and some of his teammates about how an arrest and further accounts affected their relationship with Hill and complicated life inside the locker room. Kjærsgaard-Rasmussen said Hill appeared offended by his questions. Kjærsgaard-Rasmussen described Hill’s teammates as welcoming, but “no one wanted to talk about the issue in a real way.”

“We got a story done,” he says, “but if this had been Danish soccer players, who I interview the most, we would have been able to talk about it in a different way. I guess maybe we’re just more up front about more serious issues.”


And to my point. If he came out as gay, ESPN would remind us constantly that he's gay. We generally wouldn't like that because we'd also like to just move past that as well.

edit: to clarify, the part that I would see affecting his career is the media pushing him being gay into everything and him losing favor with fans because of it. His talent at the QB position is desirable enough every front office in the league is going to sign him and if any players complain they're going to be told to STFU and figure it out. The players won't be able to say shit publicly without being crucified by the media. The only true effect on his career would be fan backlash. If fans don't like the guy he's not going get endorsements and such unless the companies are just trying to pander by hiring the gay QB.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 7:09:10 PM EDT
[#30]
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What most people care about is irrelevant to the problem Watson coming out as gay would present and that is what his teammates would think.  NFL players might say all the right things in public (for the most part), but not many of going to happy about working closely with, sharing a lockeroom with, and showering with a gay guy.

And even if ownership/coaches/the SJW mob dictated that they must work with him, that would still be a detriment to the team's chances of success.  

I think if you took an anonymous poll of NFL players asking if they'd rather have a guy that paid an out of court settlement after sexual assault accusations against women or an openly gay guy as a teammate I think most would prefer the former.
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They probably already have, at least at one of the levels of football they've played. I know there are guys I played HS football with that came out as gay after.

That said, you're right. The guys in the locker room would rather play with someone who has off field issues they don't have to think about than shower with a guy dude. Not really sure if that would impact his career much, considering his talent level and position. He's still going to continue getting paid.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 7:35:03 PM EDT
[#31]
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They probably already have, at least at one of the levels of football they've played. I know there are guys I played HS football with that came out as gay after.

That said, you're right. The guys in the locker room would rather play with someone who has off field issues they don't have to think about than shower with a guy dude. Not really sure if that would impact his career much, considering his talent level and position. He's still going to continue getting paid.
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What most people care about is irrelevant to the problem Watson coming out as gay would present and that is what his teammates would think.  NFL players might say all the right things in public (for the most part), but not many of going to happy about working closely with, sharing a lockeroom with, and showering with a gay guy.

And even if ownership/coaches/the SJW mob dictated that they must work with him, that would still be a detriment to the team's chances of success.  

I think if you took an anonymous poll of NFL players asking if they'd rather have a guy that paid an out of court settlement after sexual assault accusations against women or an openly gay guy as a teammate I think most would prefer the former.



They probably already have, at least at one of the levels of football they've played. I know there are guys I played HS football with that came out as gay after.

That said, you're right. The guys in the locker room would rather play with someone who has off field issues they don't have to think about than shower with a guy dude. Not really sure if that would impact his career much, considering his talent level and position. He's still going to continue getting paid.

Just as I'm sure most of us have eaten food with spit (or worse) in it.  But there's a big difference between it happening unknowingly and it happening knowingly.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 7:49:48 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:

Just as I'm sure most of us have eaten food with spit (or worse) in it.  But there's a big difference between it happening unknowingly and it happening knowingly.
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Only in our head.

I get what your saying, but even if they have an issue with it what kind of effect can other players really have on his career? There are very successful players who had serious beefs with teammates, the worst thing said is the guy is a locker room problem. As long as they're performing well they inevitably get signed.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 7:58:31 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:


Only in our head.

I get what your saying, but even if they have an issue with it what kind of effect can other players really have on his career? There are very successful players who had serious beefs with teammates, the worst thing said is the guy is a locker room problem. As long as they're performing well they inevitably get signed.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Just as I'm sure most of us have eaten food with spit (or worse) in it.  But there's a big difference between it happening unknowingly and it happening knowingly.


Only in our head.

I get what your saying, but even if they have an issue with it what kind of effect can other players really have on his career? There are very successful players who had serious beefs with teammates, the worst thing said is the guy is a locker room problem. As long as they're performing well they inevitably get signed.

It's not about whether or not Watson would be signed.  I'm sure he would be.  It's about whether or not his teammates not wanting to play with him would be a detriment to the team's chances of success. It seems extremely unlikely that it wouldn't be.

That's not to say it'd be impossible for that team to be successful.  Just that it would lower the chances of them being successful.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 8:58:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:

It's not about whether or not Watson would be signed.  I'm sure he would be.  It's about whether or not his teammates not wanting to play with him would be a detriment to the team's chances of success. It seems extremely unlikely that it wouldn't be.

That's not to say it'd be impossible for that team to be successful.  Just that it would lower the chances of them being successful.
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Impossible to judge.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 9:15:49 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
Did I say two fingerrs? Better make it three.

https://i.imgur.com/n9DFfOq.gif
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Just started reading this thread today and was wondering when this would show up.
Link Posted: 4/2/2021 9:22:06 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


Impossible to judge.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

It's not about whether or not Watson would be signed.  I'm sure he would be.  It's about whether or not his teammates not wanting to play with him would be a detriment to the team's chances of success. It seems extremely unlikely that it wouldn't be.

That's not to say it'd be impossible for that team to be successful.  Just that it would lower the chances of them being successful.


Impossible to judge.

Not really.  It's just commonsense.

Hypothetical experiment: Group A is one million random pairs of people who get along.  Group B is one million random pairs of people who don't get along.  If all the pairs are asked to complete various tasks that require teamwork which group is more likely to have a higher success rate?  It seems pretty obvious to me it'd be group A.

OR

You could take one million random pairs of people who have no reason to dislike each other and test them in an activity that requires teamwork. Then introduce something that would cause them to dislike each other and test them in a similar activity that requires teamwork.  Would the tests before or after have a higher success rate?
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 12:32:22 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:

Not really.  It's just commonsense.

Hypothetical experiment: Group A is one million random pairs of people who get along.  Group B is one million random pairs of people who don't get along.  If all the pairs are asked to complete various tasks that require teamwork which group is more likely to have a higher success rate?  It seems pretty obvious to me it'd be group A.

OR

You could take one million random pairs of people who have no reason to dislike each other and test them in an activity that requires teamwork. Then introduce something that would cause them to dislike each other and test them in a similar activity that requires teamwork.  Would the tests before or after have a higher success rate?
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I think team chemistry can help a lot, I'm just not sure I'd consider it necessary for success. It depends on more factors than that alone, and that's even assuming the talent pool is fairly equal.

Growing up the baseball team I was on was pretty much the best in the area, and most of us hated each other. We all wanted to win though, so we played hard and didn't do dumb shit just because another guy on the team was insufferable. And FWIW its not like any of us were super talented, nobody went on to play in college, let alone professionally. I'm probably not even in the top half of the guys in the beer league softball league, but was one of the better players back then. We just played smart & had good team work because of lots of experience playing together.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 12:39:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think team chemistry can help a lot, I'm just not sure I'd consider it necessary for success. It depends on more factors than that alone, and that's even assuming the talent pool is fairly equal.

Growing up the baseball team I was on was pretty much the best in the area, and most of us hated each other. We all wanted to win though, so we played hard and didn't do dumb shit just because another guy on the team was insufferable. And FWIW its not like any of us were super talented, nobody went on to play in college, let alone professionally. I'm probably not even in the top half of the guys in the beer league softball league, but was one of the better players back then. We just played smart & had good team work because of lots of experience playing together.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Not really.  It's just commonsense.

Hypothetical experiment: Group A is one million random pairs of people who get along.  Group B is one million random pairs of people who don't get along.  If all the pairs are asked to complete various tasks that require teamwork which group is more likely to have a higher success rate?  It seems pretty obvious to me it'd be group A.

OR

You could take one million random pairs of people who have no reason to dislike each other and test them in an activity that requires teamwork. Then introduce something that would cause them to dislike each other and test them in a similar activity that requires teamwork.  Would the tests before or after have a higher success rate?


I think team chemistry can help a lot, I'm just not sure I'd consider it necessary for success. It depends on more factors than that alone, and that's even assuming the talent pool is fairly equal.

Growing up the baseball team I was on was pretty much the best in the area, and most of us hated each other. We all wanted to win though, so we played hard and didn't do dumb shit just because another guy on the team was insufferable. And FWIW its not like any of us were super talented, nobody went on to play in college, let alone professionally. I'm probably not even in the top half of the guys in the beer league softball league, but was one of the better players back then. We just played smart & had good team work because of lots of experience playing together.

There’s a huge difference between saying “not having something lowers the chances of success” and saying “something is necessary for success.”

Link Posted: 4/3/2021 12:56:09 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

There’s a huge difference between saying “not having something lowers the chances of success” and saying “something is necessary for success.”

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The chance for success is still impossible to quantify.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 1:03:42 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:


The chance for success is still impossible to quantify.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

There’s a huge difference between saying “not having something lowers the chances of success” and saying “something is necessary for success.”



The chance for success is still impossible to quantify.

The specific chance for success is.  The chance for success being lowered regardless of degree isn't. Either way, at no point in this entire thread did I argue that anything was "necessary for success."
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 1:30:19 AM EDT
[#41]
If this goes to civil court is there any kind of extremely rough ballpark estimate on when it would start?

It seems like there'd be too many variables to even guess though.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 1:43:11 AM EDT
[#42]
i think most reasonable people could accept a "gay quarterback" way easier than "some creep who forces my neighbor's daughter to massage his asshole". but im not a texan. or an internet chiropractor...
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 2:03:34 AM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:
i think most reasonable people could accept a "gay quarterback" way easier than "some creep who forces my neighbor's daughter to massage his asshole". but im not a texan. or an internet chiropractor...
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For some reason reading that caused me to literally laugh out loud.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 2:13:38 AM EDT
[#44]
...cant wait for the inevitable media stool-softening poems like attention racists: why do some down-on-their-luck-black-quarterbacks need anal rub-downs every day...until the system is fixed...and why you need to pay for it!
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 2:14:33 AM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:

The specific chance for success is.  The chance for success being lowered regardless of degree isn't. Either way, at no point in this entire thread did I argue that anything was "necessary for success."
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No... It's impossible to quantify. You can assume it lowers or increases the chance for success, and you may even have examples that seem to indicate that one way or another, but you can't know one way or the other for a fact. There are too many variables.

You may not have said it was necessary for success, but you did imply that he would not have as successful of a career due to locker room conflict if he was openly gay. Through that process you've implied that it is necessary or at the very least being significantly important in the success of the team and Watson's career.

The only concrete way we'd see an effect on his career from this sexual assault stuff or if he were openly gay would be via contracts and endorsements, but that still comes with the caveat he has to maintain a similar level of play.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 2:37:46 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No... It's impossible to quantify. You can assume it lowers or increases the chance for success, and you may even have examples that seem to indicate that one way or another, but you can't know one way or the other for a fact. There are too many variables.

You may not have said it was necessary for success, but you did imply that he would not have as successful of a career due to locker room conflict if he was openly gay. Through that process you've implied that it is necessary or at the very least being significantly important in the success of the team and Watson's career.

The only concrete way we'd see an effect on his career from this sexual assault stuff or if he were openly gay would be via contracts and endorsements, but that still comes with the caveat he has to maintain a similar level of play.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:

The specific chance for success is.  The chance for success being lowered regardless of degree isn't. Either way, at no point in this entire thread did I argue that anything was "necessary for success."


No... It's impossible to quantify. You can assume it lowers or increases the chance for success, and you may even have examples that seem to indicate that one way or another, but you can't know one way or the other for a fact. There are too many variables.

You may not have said it was necessary for success, but you did imply that he would not have as successful of a career due to locker room conflict if he was openly gay. Through that process you've implied that it is necessary or at the very least being significantly important in the success of the team and Watson's career.

The only concrete way we'd see an effect on his career from this sexual assault stuff or if he were openly gay would be via contracts and endorsements, but that still comes with the caveat he has to maintain a similar level of play.

For one specific case: sure.  For a widespread application (like the hypotheticals I mentioned): no.  

And no, I didn't claim or imply that either.  I've noticed that when you are discussing something with someone you rarely hit "quote all" and instead usually opt for "quote single."  It might be a good idea to consider maybe quoting all instead that way it could be easier for you to recall what someone said when you are responding to their posts.  Just a friendly suggestion.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 3:36:42 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:

For one specific case: sure.  For a widespread application (like the hypotheticals I mentioned): no.  

And no, I didn't claim or imply that either.  I've noticed that when you are discussing something with someone you rarely hit "quote all" and instead usually opt for "quote single."  It might be a good idea to consider maybe quoting all instead that way it could be easier for you to recall what someone said when you are responding to their posts.  Just a friendly suggestion.
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Quoted:

For one specific case: sure.  For a widespread application (like the hypotheticals I mentioned): no.  

And no, I didn't claim or imply that either.  I've noticed that when you are discussing something with someone you rarely hit "quote all" and instead usually opt for "quote single."  It might be a good idea to consider maybe quoting all instead that way it could be easier for you to recall what someone said when you are responding to their posts.  Just a friendly suggestion.


Well thanks for the suggestion, but if you'd like a quote tree to see exactly why I said what I said I can assist you with that also. Happy to help. Bold and underline is my emphasis.

Quoted:

I wonder what would be a bigger hit to Watson's career: having it known he probably committed sexual assault against multiple women (like if he settled out of court pre-trial) or having it known he is gay/bi.


The hit to Watson's career could only be his ability to stay/be employed as a NFL QB and/or his success achieved during that career. The sexual assault stuff could really end his career (or be a nothing burger) while being openly gay wouldn't get him fired, so being gay could only be a hit in regards to how successful his career would be (athletic achievements and/or how much he'll be paid).

Quoted:

What most people care about is irrelevant to the problem Watson coming out as gay would present and that is what his teammates would think.  NFL players might say all the right things in public (for the most part), but not many of going to happy about working closely with, sharing a lockeroom with, and showering with a gay guy.

And even if ownership/coaches/the SJW mob dictated that they must work with him, that would still be a detriment to the team's chances of success.  


I think if you took an anonymous poll of NFL players asking if they'd rather have a guy that paid an out of court settlement after sexual assault accusations against women or an openly gay guy as a teammate I think most would prefer the former.


And now you've presented that concept yourself. "They won't want to play with a gay QB, and if forced to do so the team's chances of success will decrease."

Quoted:

It's not about whether or not Watson would be signed.  I'm sure he would be.  It's about whether or not his teammates not wanting to play with him would be a detriment to the team's chances of success. It seems extremely unlikely that it wouldn't be.

That's not to say it'd be impossible for that team to be successful.  Just that it would lower the chances of them being successful.


So as I said, you've implied that some kind of "getting along" culture in the locker room is necessary or at least significantly important  for a teams chances at success. Which is of course is just an opinion and not a fact, as it's completely impossible to prove. As I said, there are way too many variables.

Quoted:

For one specific case: sure.  For a widespread application (like the hypotheticals I mentioned): no.  

And no, I didn't claim or imply that either.  I've noticed that when you are discussing something with someone you rarely hit "quote all" and instead usually opt for "quote single."  It might be a good idea to consider maybe quoting all instead that way it could be easier for you to recall what someone said when you are responding to their posts.  Just a friendly suggestion.


Which of course leads us to here, this post, where I've shown you did in fact imply it. Which is fine BTW, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's just your opinion and not a fact in any way shape or form. In your hypothetical scenario it would be completely non-sensical to judge Watson's career success based on "well he probably would have been more successful if he wasn't openly gay/addicted to getting his butthole rubbed, the locker room culture would have been better."
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 4:00:48 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well thanks for the suggestion, but if you'd like a quote tree to see exactly why I said what I said I can assist you with that also. Happy to help. Bold and underline is my emphasis.



The hit to Watson's career could only be his ability to stay/be employed as a NFL QB and/or his success achieved during that career. The sexual assault stuff could really end his career (or be a nothing burger) while being openly gay wouldn't get him fired, so being gay could only be a hit in regards to how successful his career would be (athletic achievements and/or how much he'll be paid).



And now you've presented that concept yourself. "They won't want to play with a gay QB, and if forced to do so the team's chances of success will decrease."



So as I said, you've implied that some kind of "getting along" culture in the locker room is necessary or at least significantly important  for a teams chances at success. Which is of course is just an opinion and not a fact, as it's completely impossible to prove. As I said, there are way too many variables.



Which of course leads us to here, this post, where I've shown you did in fact imply it. Which is fine BTW, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's just your opinion and not a fact in any way shape or form. In your hypothetical scenario it would be completely non-sensical to judge Watson's career success based on "well he probably would have been more successful if he wasn't openly gay/addicted to getting his butthole rubbed, the locker room culture would have been better."
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Quoted:
Quoted:

For one specific case: sure.  For a widespread application (like the hypotheticals I mentioned): no.  

And no, I didn't claim or imply that either.  I've noticed that when you are discussing something with someone you rarely hit "quote all" and instead usually opt for "quote single."  It might be a good idea to consider maybe quoting all instead that way it could be easier for you to recall what someone said when you are responding to their posts.  Just a friendly suggestion.


Well thanks for the suggestion, but if you'd like a quote tree to see exactly why I said what I said I can assist you with that also. Happy to help. Bold and underline is my emphasis.

Quoted:

I wonder what would be a bigger hit to Watson's career: having it known he probably committed sexual assault against multiple women (like if he settled out of court pre-trial) or having it known he is gay/bi.


The hit to Watson's career could only be his ability to stay/be employed as a NFL QB and/or his success achieved during that career. The sexual assault stuff could really end his career (or be a nothing burger) while being openly gay wouldn't get him fired, so being gay could only be a hit in regards to how successful his career would be (athletic achievements and/or how much he'll be paid).

Quoted:

What most people care about is irrelevant to the problem Watson coming out as gay would present and that is what his teammates would think.  NFL players might say all the right things in public (for the most part), but not many of going to happy about working closely with, sharing a lockeroom with, and showering with a gay guy.

And even if ownership/coaches/the SJW mob dictated that they must work with him, that would still be a detriment to the team's chances of success.  


I think if you took an anonymous poll of NFL players asking if they'd rather have a guy that paid an out of court settlement after sexual assault accusations against women or an openly gay guy as a teammate I think most would prefer the former.


And now you've presented that concept yourself. "They won't want to play with a gay QB, and if forced to do so the team's chances of success will decrease."

Quoted:

It's not about whether or not Watson would be signed.  I'm sure he would be.  It's about whether or not his teammates not wanting to play with him would be a detriment to the team's chances of success. It seems extremely unlikely that it wouldn't be.

That's not to say it'd be impossible for that team to be successful.  Just that it would lower the chances of them being successful.


So as I said, you've implied that some kind of "getting along" culture in the locker room is necessary or at least significantly important  for a teams chances at success. Which is of course is just an opinion and not a fact, as it's completely impossible to prove. As I said, there are way too many variables.

Quoted:

For one specific case: sure.  For a widespread application (like the hypotheticals I mentioned): no.  

And no, I didn't claim or imply that either.  I've noticed that when you are discussing something with someone you rarely hit "quote all" and instead usually opt for "quote single."  It might be a good idea to consider maybe quoting all instead that way it could be easier for you to recall what someone said when you are responding to their posts.  Just a friendly suggestion.


Which of course leads us to here, this post, where I've shown you did in fact imply it. Which is fine BTW, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's just your opinion and not a fact in any way shape or form. In your hypothetical scenario it would be completely non-sensical to judge Watson's career success based on "well he probably would have been more successful if he wasn't openly gay/addicted to getting his butthole rubbed, the locker room culture would have been better."

I'm not sure how someone could read what I posted and reach the conclusion that I claimed or even implied anything was necessary in order to be successful, but okay.  You're certainly free to have that opinion though. Or the opinion that anything was implied from anything else for that matter.

Though I have to thank you.  The way you took what I said and claimed it implied something and then claimed that "through that process" the implication implied something else and then argued against your interpenetration of what you thought the implication of the implication was amusingly reminded me of the scene in Animal House where there is a hearing for a wild party they had and then Otter takes it from "you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals" all the way to "this an indictment of our entire American society."

Link Posted: 4/3/2021 4:26:45 AM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:

I'm not sure how someone could read what I posted and reach the conclusion that I claimed or even implied anything was necessary in order to be successful, but okay.  You're certainly free to have that opinion though. Or the opinion that anything was implied from anything else for that matter.

Though I have to thank you.  The way you took what I said and claimed it implied something and then claimed that "through that process" the implication implied something else and then argued against your interpenetration of what you thought the implication of the implication was amusingly reminded me of the scene in Animal House where there is a hearing for a wild party they had and then Otter takes it from "you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals" all the way to "this an indictment of our entire American society."

https://i.imgur.com/mZlX7GK.gif
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I didn't say that you said that it was required for any success at all. Your hypothetical is "what kind of negative effect being a sexual predator or being openly gay would there be for Watson's career/success" which automatically makes an assumption of the baseline success without either of those things happening.

You flat out said that if the team doesn't want to play with a gay guy that it would decrease their chances of success. I highlighted it for you in the last post The implication is that whatever the status quo locker room culture is prior to either scenario playing out is key in achieving that baseline level of success, and therefore it is necessary or at least significantly important. If it wasn't necessary or significantly important then you wouldn't conclude that the teams chances of success would decrease.

Good movie by the way.
Link Posted: 4/3/2021 4:36:21 AM EDT
[#50]
Well I fucked that all up
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