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Posted: 6/8/2019 9:49:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meaning they need to get the go-ahead every time they want to cut a clearance around towers/lines? That seems insane. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP's editorialization is baloney. The cited article says NOTHING about the state not allowing trees to be trimmed. The situation has nothing to do with California environmental protection laws. Utilities are permitted by federal law to trim trees, shrubs, etc. in the vicinity of power transmission lines on both private and public lands. California state law requires it. (Several years ago SDG&E took out a LARGE Mexican fan palm that my ex-wife brilliantly planted right under a 12 KV line in front of my house. I paid nothing.) The problem is that it's very expensive to maintain adequate clearance in densely forested areas. The California Public Utilities Commission has to approve plans to improve fire safety. PG&E and others haven't spent the money, they've been dragging their feet, and there is some controversy about where the money would come from. The blackout plan is a cheap kludge to avoid liability until a workable plan to trim vegetation can be worked out and implemented. https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=1974 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/business/energy-environment/pge-wildfire-plan-blackouts.html They can trim trees near their lines any time without special permission. They do need permission to raise rates. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 9:56:06 AM EDT
[#2]
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what will happen is the sizes of the affected areas will increase, and rolling blackouts will start occuring on high wind days. then, as the weather changes, and you start getting multiple days of high winds, businesses and people in affected areas that could be out of power for days. people will have to try to make due, while sweltering in their homes.... businesses that don't have generators will lose their frozen, and refrigerated foods.... it will cause a backlash that might actually get them to change the forestry regulations.... but likely, california will double down on it and break up pg&e into separate areas, and make them get power from out of state instead of use the existing power lines, driving up cost to consumers |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 9:57:36 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/8/2019 9:57:48 AM EDT
[#4]
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Looks like they are shutting down the lines, not the generators, so how would they get that out of state power to their customers? |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:05:21 AM EDT
[#5]
It’s awesome to watch people get to learn about economics and logic.
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#6]
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Wrong. They need approval for their remediation plan because it will certainly affect rates. The issue is how they will get money to pay for the work. (In the end everyone knows that consumers will end up picking up the tab.) They can trim trees near their lines any time without special permission. They do need permission to raise rates. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:13:54 AM EDT
[#7]
PG&E earlier released its Public Safety Power Shutoff criteria, factors include:
A Red Flag Warning declared by the National Weather Service Low humidity levels, generally 20 percent and below Forecasted sustained winds generally above 25 mph and wind gusts in excess of approximately 45 mph, depending on location and site-specific conditions such as temperature, terrain and local climate Condition of dry fuel on the ground and live vegetation (moisture content) On-the-ground, real-time observations from PG&E's Wildfire Safety Operations Center and observations from PG&E field crews |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:14:01 AM EDT
[#8]
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The power company was successfully sued for starting fires last year. They are responding to.that |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:16:39 AM EDT
[#9]
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Yep. You get the behavior you ask for. I don't blame them. California needs to deal with it or...nationalize their power grid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The power company was successfully sued for starting fires last year. They are responding to.that |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:23:06 AM EDT
[#10]
PG&E turning off power for 1,600 people in the North Bay
https://m.sfgate.com/news/bayarea/article/Pg-E-To-Turn-Off-Power-In-Several-North-Bay-13961866.php |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:25:06 AM EDT
[#11]
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This is the "progress" that "progressives" want.  |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:30:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know a lot about power transmission, but it seems to me that underground lines would make sense in fire-prone areas. I'm sure the cost is high, but it's one and done as opposed to having to come back and trim vegetation every few years. Also when they have a fault (and they do fault) it’s much more difficult to locate. PG&E is in a tough spot it seems. <————substation guy. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:31:35 AM EDT
[#13]
The value of property above 5000 feet will sky rocket.
I don't know what they'll do for heat. Maybe import coal! |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:31:44 AM EDT
[#14]
Fucking ridiculous.
Find a way to distribute electrical power that says fuck you to wind and stuff. Also, CLEAR SOME FIRE BREAKS. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:33:32 AM EDT
[#15]
The power company should shut off power for a week on principle.
The power company can drive their trucks through any easement they have. They can destroy anything in that easement doing it. If people saw how often it happened fixing outages they would be outraged about that I’m sure. They have crews that they hire almost year round clearing vegetation(my local utility at least). I’ve seen it over and owner. Johnny homeowner: “But it’s my property!” As the bucket truck destroys his garden/fence/lawn/whatever. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:34:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Everybody and business buy a generator, make your own electric
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:38:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't care because they don't live in the affected areas. We currently have power, but have friends without. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:38:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everybody and business buy a generator, make your own electric |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:38:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Vacaduck ... |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:39:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Underground lines would be extraordinarily expensive. Especially in a place the size of California. There’s also the problem of people hitting them while doing excavations and what not. Also when they have a fault (and they do fault) it’s much more difficult to locate. PG&E is in a tough spot it seems. <————substation guy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't know a lot about power transmission, but it seems to me that underground lines would make sense in fire-prone areas. I'm sure the cost is high, but it's one and done as opposed to having to come back and trim vegetation every few years. Also when they have a fault (and they do fault) it’s much more difficult to locate. PG&E is in a tough spot it seems. <————substation guy. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:40:17 AM EDT
[#21]
One step closer to being an official 3rd world fuckhole.
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:40:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. And the time to dig up who knows how much area to fix it. In who knows lawn or street. Aerial outage might take an hour to fix. Underground same problem might take hours just to get all the equipment on site. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't know a lot about power transmission, but it seems to me that underground lines would make sense in fire-prone areas. I'm sure the cost is high, but it's one and done as opposed to having to come back and trim vegetation every few years. Also when they have a fault (and they do fault) it's much more difficult to locate. PG&E is in a tough spot it seems. <substation guy. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:41:58 AM EDT
[#23]
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LOL you cant make this shit up |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:43:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
watch a fire get started by some idiot trying to run a cheap generator for the first time.... |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:43:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
California deserves everything it gets. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:47:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
this is what happens when people don't allow clearing and cutting in forest, yet blame the utility for the fires that result |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:48:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guarantee you that every Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. in the affected areas has people lined up to buy generators at this very moment. They will be sold out by 10:00 AM. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:50:27 AM EDT
[#28]
So they don't have rights of way or cleared lanes along the power lines?
Around here helicopters trim the trees with giant chainsaws hanging beneath them. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:01:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they don't have rights of way or cleared lanes along the power lines?
Around here helicopters trim the trees with giant chainsaws hanging beneath them. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:07:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guarantee you that every Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. in the affected areas has people lined up to buy generators at this very moment. They will be sold out by 10:00 AM. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:08:26 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The argument is over who pays for the cost of keeping the lanes clear. Utility companies say that the costs should be covered by the utility rates (customers pay). Gubmint says the utility company should eat those costs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So they don't have rights of way or cleared lanes along the power lines?
Around here helicopters trim the trees with giant chainsaws hanging beneath them. Who will invest in power companies after each one goes bankrupt due to lawsuits? If people knew how often catastrophic failures happened in utility companies they would shit themselves. They never stop. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:15:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t think that’s the argument at all. The power companies keep trees clear of their lines as best they can. But if something does fall, spark, and start a fire because in horrible drought conditions the power company will be sued every single time now that there is precedent. Who will invest in power companies after each one goes bankrupt due to lawsuits? If people knew how often catastrophic failures happened in utility companies they would shit themselves. They never stop. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:15:59 AM EDT
[#33]
So is this part of CA's way of practicing how to be the Venezuela of the northern hemisphere?
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:16:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
this is what happens when people don't allow clearing and cutting in forest, yet blame the utility for the fires that result 
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:16:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't care because they don't live in the affected areas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't like the black-outs? Thank a California Environmentalist and their lawyers. SF and LA advocacy groups lead the charge - and are wholly unaffected in almost every scenario. Try getting SF to give up its hetch hetchy water to save the delta smelt... Energy costs? They don’t have to run the A/C or heat for 10 months out of the year. Fuuuuuuck them. Conservative California suffers because liberal fucks in their beach hideaways won’t let pge trim vegetation without jumping through environmental hoops. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:18:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they don't have rights of way or cleared lanes along the power lines? ...Helicopters are used here too BTW. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:19:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, that's fine then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wrong. They need approval for their remediation plan because it will certainly affect rates. The issue is how they will get money to pay for the work. (In the end everyone knows that consumers will end up picking up the tab.) They can trim trees near their lines any time without special permission. They do need permission to raise rates. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:20:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP's editorialization is baloney. The cited article says NOTHING about the state not allowing trees to be trimmed. The situation has nothing to do with California environmental protection laws. Utilities are permitted by federal law to trim trees, shrubs, etc. in the vicinity of power transmission lines on both private and public lands. California state law requires it. (Several years ago SDG&E took out a LARGE Mexican fan palm that my ex-wife brilliantly planted right under a 12 KV line in front of my house. I paid nothing.) The problem is that it's very expensive to maintain adequate clearance in densely forested areas. The California Public Utilities Commission has to approve plans to improve fire safety. PG&E and others haven't spent the money, they've been dragging their feet, and there is some controversy about where the money would come from. The blackout plan is a cheap kludge to avoid liability until a workable plan to trim vegetation can be worked out and implemented. https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=1974 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/business/energy-environment/pge-wildfire-plan-blackouts.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
because the state won't allow cutting of corridors around powerlines to prevent or lessen the chance of fires..... ...this is what happens when people don't allow clearing and cutting in forest, yet blame the utility for the fires that result Utilities are permitted by federal law to trim trees, shrubs, etc. in the vicinity of power transmission lines on both private and public lands. California state law requires it. (Several years ago SDG&E took out a LARGE Mexican fan palm that my ex-wife brilliantly planted right under a 12 KV line in front of my house. I paid nothing.) The problem is that it's very expensive to maintain adequate clearance in densely forested areas. The California Public Utilities Commission has to approve plans to improve fire safety. PG&E and others haven't spent the money, they've been dragging their feet, and there is some controversy about where the money would come from. The blackout plan is a cheap kludge to avoid liability until a workable plan to trim vegetation can be worked out and implemented. https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=1974 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/business/energy-environment/pge-wildfire-plan-blackouts.html So yes - while they are nominally allowed to trim veg, the environmental process is very expensive. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:26:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. And the time to dig up who knows how much area to fix it. In who knows lawn or street. Aerial outage might take an hour to fix. Underground same problem might take hours just to get all the equipment on site. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:27:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
watch a fire get started by some idiot trying to run a cheap generator for the first time.... 
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:31:34 AM EDT
[#41]
As usual, you saw it first on arfcom............
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:38:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The environmental regulations are onerous to even maintain their roads - let alone trim veg. This is my field - it’s expensive to maintain because it takes forever to work through the various environmental approvals. So yes - while they are nominally allowed to trim veg, the environmental process is very expensive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
because the state won't allow cutting of corridors around powerlines to prevent or lessen the chance of fires..... ...this is what happens when people don't allow clearing and cutting in forest, yet blame the utility for the fires that result Utilities are permitted by federal law to trim trees, shrubs, etc. in the vicinity of power transmission lines on both private and public lands. California state law requires it. (Several years ago SDG&E took out a LARGE Mexican fan palm that my ex-wife brilliantly planted right under a 12 KV line in front of my house. I paid nothing.) The problem is that it's very expensive to maintain adequate clearance in densely forested areas. The California Public Utilities Commission has to approve plans to improve fire safety. PG&E and others haven't spent the money, they've been dragging their feet, and there is some controversy about where the money would come from. The blackout plan is a cheap kludge to avoid liability until a workable plan to trim vegetation can be worked out and implemented. https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=1974 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/business/energy-environment/pge-wildfire-plan-blackouts.html So yes - while they are nominally allowed to trim veg, the environmental process is very expensive. These are the true FSA. The non-producers with the cush jobs who don’t get their hands dirty, while looking over the shoulder of the workers to insure compliance with complex government edicts (which they lobbied for). |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:41:53 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:42:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Liberals cater to the Whims Minority while ignoring the Needs of the Majority.
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:46:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
watch a fire get started by some idiot trying to run a cheap generator for the first time.... |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 11:52:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guarantee you that every Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. in the affected areas has people lined up to buy generators at this very moment. They will be sold out by 10:00 AM. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 12:01:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know a lot about power transmission, but it seems to me that underground lines would make sense in fire-prone areas. I'm sure the cost is high, but it's one and done as opposed to having to come back and trim vegetation every few years. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 12:07:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Upon hearing this news, the California legislation called an emergency meeting to approve a "special tax" on "all generators and inverters, and otherwise equipment used for the generation of electricty." The measure is expected to pass and be voted on by 10:30 a.m., and legislators have asked big box stores to place a moratorium on sales of such equipment until the measure is enacted. |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 12:11:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Again GD has shown the suck that is California..Trump should try and sell it back to Mexico.
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Posted: 6/8/2019 12:18:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again GD has shown the suck that is California..Trump should try and sell it back to Mexico. |
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