Quoted: Quoted: Were you listening to Jerry Garcia by any chance? That's the acid test, alright......

the greatful dead suck! sorry LOL

Chris

Quoted:  User Info     IM User     Email User     Reply     Quote   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Positive? Well, I knew a guy once who used to take LSD and draw pictures. Normally he was just an OK guy, no real vision. On LSD? The guy was amazing. So if you're in to altered states, this could be considered a positive. His experimentation (and art career) ended when he had a massively "bad trip" in which he vividly saw a depiction of hell. The intensity of the vision and the perceived pain almost ten years later still brought the guy to tears. He wasn't a Christian per se... But he was a good guy. Darwin works in mysterious ways...

Riiiight...

Quoted: Quoted:  User Info     IM User     Email User     Reply     Quote   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Positive? Well, I knew a guy once who used to take LSD and draw pictures. Normally he was just an OK guy, no real vision. On LSD? The guy was amazing. So if you're in to altered states, this could be considered a positive. His experimentation (and art career) ended when he had a massively "bad trip" in which he vividly saw a depiction of hell. The intensity of the vision and the perceived pain almost ten years later still brought the guy to tears. He wasn't a Christian per se... But he was a good guy. Darwin works in mysterious ways... Riiiight...

I think he meant are you positive he's a good guy.

Chris

Let me get this straight. You delved into sorcery(pharmakos) and found GOD?

More likely deceived. Satan came to Eve wrapped in the guise of the most beautiful creature of the garden, the serpent, not as a warthog.

wganz
¶

Quoted: Let me get this straight. You delved into sorcery(pharmakos) and found GOD? More likely deceived. Satan came to Eve wrapped in the guise of the most beautiful creature of the garden, the serpent, not as a warthog. wganz ¶

Chris

Quoted: My ancestors, the Vikings, used mushies and other drugs to go into BERSERKER RAGE when entering combat. Nowadays, I just watch 5 minutes of Katie Couric and I'm good to go...

Yep, we're all individuals and I'm not gonna critique someone's path to enlightenment or motivation.  Either we have free will or we don't.

Quoted: Quoted: My college girlfriend and I found that sex while shrooming was a near religious for both of us... Does that count? you've done shrooms huh, officer?

Sure. Broke a bunch of other laws as well. Very lucky I never got into trouble and lost opportunities. Also lucky that I was able to just put the childish things away and never go back. I enjoyed my misspent youth and am a better officer for it.

You?

I can sorta understand. I'm planning on taking salvia as a way to help me along my spiritual path.

Quoted: you think shrooms are fun. try choking yourself when you masturbate

Holy snikies!                                  

I know exactly how you feel. I used to take mushrooms and it definantly made me a more spiritual person. many questions arise from this.

firstly, when man fell in Eden so did the earth(ie earth wasnt made to expirience tsunamis) so we cant accept since its natural its Godly

however no good tree produces bad fruit so who knows????

*its not nescesarily Godly*

i think using hallucenogens opens you to the spiritual realm be that heaven or hell

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My college girlfriend and I found that sex while shrooming was a near religious for both of us... Does that count? you've done shrooms huh, officer? Sure. Broke a bunch of other laws as well. Very lucky I never got into trouble and lost opportunities. Also lucky that I was able to just put the childish things away and never go back. I enjoyed my misspent youth and am a better officer for it. You?

I can get you anything you want....what you need?

Sgatr15

Quoted: I know you guys don't want another one of "these" threads but I really want to know your opinions. (Esp. EricTheHun) About 10 years ago I was really into 'shrooms. I would eat them about once a month so I wouldn't build up a tolerance. But when I did eat them I would go for level 4-5 trips. Anyway, during these experiences, I would not be seeking anything of ANY religious nature, just basically "exploring my mind". I have to tell you I DID SOME EXPLORING! One thing  that did inadvertadly come from these sessions was a profound presence of God in my life. I would then trip for spiritual reasons ONLY! I have since quit experimenting with ethno-pathogens(?) and now am a devout Christian. Most folks would say "ooooo, you should never do any drug for any reason. This is a case where "drugs" had a HUGE POSITIVE affect on my life. Anyone else do this type of experimentation with this type of result? Flame suit on

You are out of your mind.

Nobody in the Bible had an encounter with God because they were high.

Stop using drugs and start repenting and seeking God's face according to His word. THEN you will find Him.

Now all you have found is hallucination.

Quoted: And yes God talks to me, rarely direct verbal communication (those are the BEST)...

God speaks to you directly and verbally?  In English, while you're awake?

Quoted: Quoted: And yes God talks to me, rarely direct verbal communication (those are the BEST)... God speaks to you directly and verbally?  In English, while you're awake?

In Latin, sometimes Hebrew..and ofcourse while we are awake.

SGatr15

The reason were not to use drugs as Christians is because it opens the door to the spiritual realm, & usually gives the devil a huge opening into your life. I have never heard of a person finding a real relationship with God by tripping. I have however seen the very oppisite happen. Call it good & keep your body/mind free of this stuff in the future.

Be still quiet and humble before the lord and the holy spirit will speak yo you also. Caution all that is told to you must be backed up by the book.

I'm very impressed with the denizens of Arfcom.  This thread has run for 3 pages now and has remained entirely civil and maybe even open minded and accepting of an idea that is anathema to everything I have come to accept about the right way to meet God and have Him influence your life.

Quoted: I'm very impressed with the denizens of Arfcom.  This thread has run for 3 pages now and has remained entirely civil and maybe even open minded and accepting of an idea that is anathema to everything I have come to accept about the right way to meet God and have Him influence your life.

Uhhh.....

That isn't a good thing. You don't find God when you are high, and you sure as heck can't serve Him while high.

Them's the facts.

You want to know God? Start studying the Bible and seeking God's face SOBERLY.

Quoted: Quoted: I know you guys don't want another one of "these" threads but I really want to know your opinions. (Esp. EricTheHun) About 10 years ago I was really into 'shrooms. I would eat them about once a month so I wouldn't build up a tolerance. But when I did eat them I would go for level 4-5 trips. Anyway, during these experiences, I would not be seeking anything of ANY religious nature, just basically "exploring my mind". I have to tell you I DID SOME EXPLORING! One thing  that did inadvertadly come from these sessions was a profound presence of God in my life. I would then trip for spiritual reasons ONLY! I have since quit experimenting with ethno-pathogens(?) and now am a devout Christian. Most folks would say "ooooo, you should never do any drug for any reason. This is a case where "drugs" had a HUGE POSITIVE affect on my life. Anyone else do this type of experimentation with this type of result? Flame suit on You are out of your mind. Nobody in the Bible had an encounter with God because they were high. Stop using drugs and start repenting and seeking God's face according to His word. THEN you will find Him. Now all you have found is hallucination.

See, this is why I have a problem with the way some people witness to others, they no not listen to the person they are witnessing to.
Did you read my post clearly? You quoted it so I guess you did. Did you miss the part that said "ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO"?
Where in my post did you derive that I was out of my mind? I would also bet that people now days are finding God in MANY ways that are not found or mentioned in the Bible.

Quoted: See, this is why I have a problem with the way some people witness to others, they no not listen to the person they are witnessing to. Did you read my post clearly? You quoted it so I guess you did. Did you miss the part that said "ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO"?

I did read your post. The whole premise is that you met God while on a trip. Tell me: Can you get good fruit from a poison tree?

"15"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit."

Matthew 7

Where in my post did you derive that I was out of my mind?

Exactly what ARE you when you are high, if not out of your mind?

I would also bet that people now days are finding God in MANY ways that are not found or mentioned in t[redhe Bible.

Ah. That, you see, is the problem:

"6I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

Galatians 1

"14How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
      "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
      Who bring glad tidings of good things!"

 

   16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "LORD, who has believed our report?"[j] 17So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. "

Romans 10

No man knows God except that God reveals Himself to that man. We don't "find" God through shrooms. God finds us, and makes Himself real to us through the power of His word and of the Holy Spirit.

Drugs are not a positive influence in your life. If you have a genuine relationship with God, it is not because shrooms led you there. To assert that it did would be like a murderer saying "Thank God I killed all those people because I never would have met God if I hadn't!"

It is silliness. Drugs will never lead you to the feet of Jesus. The Holy Spirit leads you to Christ. Drugs were a HINDERANCE to your salvation, not the cause of it. You can't "trip" for "spiritual reasons only", my friend. You cannot sin and become closer to God.

And the very fact that you think drugs played a hugely positive role in your conversion to Christ demonstrates a very fragile understanding of the entire work of grace in the first place. Believe what God has said on the matter, for His word is the only Eternal force in this universe.

Quoted: Quoted: See, this is why I have a problem with the way some people witness to others, they no not listen to the person they are witnessing to. Did you read my post clearly? You quoted it so I guess you did. Did you miss the part that said "ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO"? I did read your post. The whole premise is that you met God while on a trip. Tell me: Can you get good fruit from a poison tree? "15"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit." Matthew 7 Where in my post did you derive that I was out of my mind? Exactly what ARE you when you are high, if not out of your mind? I would also bet that people now days are finding God in MANY ways that are not found or mentioned in t[redhe Bible. Ah. That, you see, is the problem: "6I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 "14How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:       "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]       Who bring glad tidings of good things!"      16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "LORD, who has believed our report?"[j] 17So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. " Romans 10 No man knows God except that God reveals Himself to that man. We don't "find" God through shrooms. God finds us, and makes Himself real to us through the power of His word and of the Holy Spirit. Drugs are not a positive influence in your life. If you have a genuine relationship with God, it is not because shrooms led you there. To assert that it did would be like a murderer saying "Thank God I killed all those people because I never would have met God if I hadn't!" It is silliness. Drugs will never lead you to the feet of Jesus. The Holy Spirit leads you to Christ. Drugs were a HINDERANCE to your salvation, not the cause of it. You can't "trip" for "spiritual reasons only", my friend. You cannot sin and become closer to God. And the very fact that you think drugs played a hugely positive role in your conversion to Christ demonstrates a very fragile understanding of the entire work of grace in the first place. Believe what God has said on the matter, for His word is the only Eternal force in this universe.

So after 10 years I'm still high?
You sir, ARE indeed Holier than thou.

Quoted: that type reaction is not typical, and the only "demons" that are accesable are in your own mind. (100 times just with LSD here) shrooms I never kept track of, but many were taken never a bad experience and never a "flashback"<<< a mythical happening IMVHEO Chris

Man, that explains a lot!

Is it any coincidence that the most deluded member here was (is?) the heaviest user?

You may not suffer flashbacks from your use, but WE suffer flashbacks from YOUR use!

Quoted: So after 10 years I'm still high? You sir, ARE indeed Holier than thou.

If you HONESTLY think it is a splendid idea to run around telling people how "positive" it was for you to use drugs and how they can "lead" a person to God is a good idea, then you need some spiritual help.

That's not being holier than thou.

That is telling the truth.

If you don't like it, then take it up with God and ask Him to change His word.

John-Wayne777, you sir do not read what people actually write.  You didn't understand my first post on this subject and you certainly don't understand what Onemangang is saying.  If you would go away, this thread might be able to remain interesting.  However, I doubt you could avoid and argument with your rabid holier-than-thou attitude.

Please do this thread a favor and let it develop into someithing more than an opportunity for you to insist that you are the only correct person on the planet.

Quoted: John-Wayne777, you sir do not read what people actually write.  You didn't understand my first post on this subject and you certainly don't understand what Onemangang is saying.  If you would go away, this thread might be able to remain interesting.  However, I doubt you could avoid and argument with your rabid holier-than-thou attitude. Please do this thread a favor and let it develop into someithing more than an opportunity for you to insist that you are the only correct person on the planet.

There is nothing hard to "understand" in this:

One thing  that did inadvertadly come from these sessions was a profound presence of God in my life. I would then trip for spiritual reasons ONLY! I have since quit experimenting with ethno-pathogens(?) and now am a devout Christian. Most folks would say "ooooo, you should never do any drug for any reason. This is a case where "drugs" had a HUGE POSITIVE affect on my life. Anyone else do this type of experimentation with this type of result?

Drugs are NOT a huge positive in anyone's life, ESPECIALLY a Christian's life!

I am not the only correct person on the planet. Christ is, and there was a reason the Apostles didn't run around handing out mushrooms! YOU SHOULD NEVER EXPERIMENT WITH DRUGS FOR ANY REASON, AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE IDEA THAT THEY WILL LEAD YOU TO CHRIST!!!!

NARCOTICS ARE NOT A PATH TO GOD.  

If you want to go outside the bounds of scripture and accept whatever is out there as a path to God, that is your buisness. But scripture says:

"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? "

Romans 6

If a person has been saved from drugs, then they ought not preach about how "positive" drugs were in "bringing them to god". DRUGS DO NOT LEAD PEOPLE TO JESUS. THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES.

And thankfully He does this with all kinds of sinners. But the sin does NOT lead people to God. Period.

Quoted: Quoted: God can turn anything to his purpose. I believe God uses anything and everything to bring us to an understanding of Him. I said my "sinner's prayer" and was baptized when I was 14.  Twenty seven years later at the end of a rebellious and broken life, God revealed Himself to me. I asked Him "Why did I have to go through all this?" He replied "Would you have known me any other way?" He was absolutely right (what a surprise) I had to come to an end of myself. So I wouldn't be to concerned as to what brought you to a knowledge of God, I would be concerned with what to do with that Knowledge.

How can you understand heaven withoug going through hell right?

Quoted: Quoted: John-Wayne777, you sir do not read what people actually write.  You didn't understand my first post on this subject and you certainly don't understand what Onemangang is saying.  If you would go away, this thread might be able to remain interesting.  However, I doubt you could avoid and argument with your rabid holier-than-thou attitude. Please do this thread a favor and let it develop into someithing more than an opportunity for you to insist that you are the only correct person on the planet. There is nothing hard to "understand" in this: One thing  that did inadvertadly come from these sessions was a profound presence of God in my life. I would then trip for spiritual reasons ONLY! I have since quit experimenting with ethno-pathogens(?) and now am a devout Christian. Most folks would say "ooooo, you should never do any drug for any reason. This is a case where "drugs" had a HUGE POSITIVE affect on my life. Anyone else do this type of experimentation with this type of result? Drugs are NOT a huge positive in anyone's life, ESPECIALLY a Christian's life! I am not the only correct person on the planet. Christ is, and there was a reason the Apostles didn't run around handing out mushrooms! YOU SHOULD NEVER EXPERIMENT WITH DRUGS FOR ANY REASON, AND CERTAINLY NOT IN THE IDEA THAT THEY WILL LEAD YOU TO CHRIST!!!! NARCOTICS ARE NOT A PATH TO GOD.   If you want to go outside the bounds of scripture and accept whatever is out there as a path to God, that is your buisness. But scripture says: "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? " Romans 6 If a person has been saved from drugs, then they ought not preach about how "positive" drugs were in "bringing them to god". DRUGS DO NOT LEAD PEOPLE TO JESUS. THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES. And thankfully He does this with all kinds of sinners. But the sin does NOT lead people to God. Period.

You've made your point, John-Wayne.  Now go away.

" I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

2nd Timothy 4

Quoted: Let me get this straight. You delved into sorcery(pharmakos) and found GOD? More likely deceived. Satan came to Eve wrapped in the guise of the most beautiful creature of the garden, the serpent, not as a warthog. wganz ¶

SHE'S A WITCH! LETS BURN HER!



Sorcery....

Quoted: " I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2nd Timothy 4

Dude, lighten up.

Quoted: Quoted: " I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2nd Timothy 4 Dude, lighten up.

Genesis

2:5
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
2:9
And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

Quoted: Dude, lighten up.

You're right. I mean, it isn't like how we handle the Gospel and the truth of God's salvation matters, right?

We can just take the things of God and handle them any old way, and expect that God will get a good chuckle out of it all, because He really doesn't give a rip what we do with His message and His revealed truth, right?

All that "doctrine" stuff doesn't count!

Whew!

Glad I see things more clearly now.....

It is like saying "Booze and Hookers brought me to God"

"1For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

   15Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. "

Titus 2

Quoted: Quoted: Dude, lighten up. You're right. I mean, it isn't like how we handle the Gospel and the truth of God's salvation matters, right? We can just take the things of God and handle them any old way, and expect that God will get a good chuckle out of it all, because He really doesn't give a rip what we do with His message and His revealed truth, right? All that "doctrine" stuff doesn't count! Whew! Glad I see things more clearly now.....

eta:  I can't believe I wasted my 9-11 post on this.

Quoted: It is like saying "Booze and Hookers brought me to God"

Indeed. We cannot EVER allow that kind of impression to come from our lips.

Quoted: "1For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.    15Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. " Titus 2

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men:
for ye neither go in yourselves,
neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."
— Matthew, Chapter 23, Verse 13

Quoted: eta:  I can't believe I wasted my 9-11 post on this.

Let me ask you a question:

How do you think Christ would react to the idea that drugs leads people to God? Hmmm?

Do you really think that God doesn't care what we do with the Gospel?

Quoted: "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." — Matthew, Chapter 23, Verse 13

Are you yet again trying to use divinely inspired scripture when you don't believe in it? Are you yet again trying to pull stuff out of context?

Didn't Jesus say later in that EXACT same passage:

25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and selfindulgence . 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean."

Are you making the case that the Bible says it is illegitimate to preach the message of righteousness and sobriety, and the denial of worldly lusts?

Well, thanks for killing another good subject.  

Quoted: Quoted: "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." — Matthew, Chapter 23, Verse 13 Are you yet again trying to use divinely inspired scripture when you don't believe in it? Are you yet again trying to pull stuff out of context? Didn't Jesus say later in that EXACT same passage: 25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and selfindulgence . 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Are you making the case that the Bible says it is illegitimate to preach the message of righteousness and sobriety, and the denial of worldly lusts?

The Pharisees and the "Teachers of law"  "clean the outside of the cup" but inside the are "full of greed and selfindulgence"

"Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean"


Clean the inside of false knowledge and you will begin to see! YOu will let go of the selfindulgence and greed....


Where is the kingdom?...... I think you know!!!!

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWw

smells like mullah in here.  lighten up JW

Chris

Quoted: Clean the inside of false knowledge and you will begin to see!

That has got to be the most meaningless, vapid statement I have ever heard.


And what false knowledge would I have here?

Since you don't believe the scriptures are correct, how can you even believe that is an accurate teaching of Jesus in the first place?

Does your concept of Jesus include Him handing out shrooms and encouraging us to toke out and turn on to find God?

Quoted: That has got to be the most meaningless, vapid statement I have ever heard. And what false knowledge would I have here? Since you don't believe the scriptures are correct, how can you even believe that is an accurate teaching of Jesus in the first place?

You seek to approach God through Faith, a blind acceptance of indemonstrable truths, instead of through the direct experience of God.

Anyway we have been over this..... I'll try to stay on topic.

Does your concept of Jesus include Him handing out shrooms and encouraging us to toke out and turn on to find God?

"Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the all." -Jesus, Gospel of Thomas.



No not really.... But look at all the 'meditations' and 'prayer', the singing, Hell look at the Eucharist. what purpose do they serve other than to change a state of mind to bring us closer to that direct experience of God? The fact that some of these drugs do this for certain people, I can't fault them. Its not my bag, but I can't fault them if there goal is to get closer to thier God....

Quoted: "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the all." -Jesus, Gospel of Thomas.

Gospel of Thomas indeed.

No not really.... But look at all the 'meditations' and 'prayer', the singing, Hell look at the Eucharist. what purpose do they serve other than to change a state of mind to bring us closer to that direct experience of God? The fact that some of these drugs do this for certain people, I can't fault them. Its not my bag, but I can't fault them if there goal is to get closer to thier god....

Dropping acid is just as spiritually beneficial as communion!

Elvis has left the building.....

I am not disputing that God reveals Himself to those who are lost in sin. (Otherwise I would be SOL...)

But DRUGS do not reveal God to us. The Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us, and does the work in us that allows us to confess Him as Lord.

And when we are truly moved on in such a way, it is then that we understand the magnitude of our sin, the Glory of Christ's forgiveness, and the power of His message. We shouldn't, then, talk about how "positive" drugs were in our life.

We should understand that the sin was a barrier between us and God, and in spite of our unworthiness that God revealed Himself to us and changed us. And we should then exhort all whom we tell our story to reach out to God right where they are and seek for Him, for He hears the contrite heart wherever that heart is.

If we are indeed willing to confess our sin and desire to forsake it, then we can be saved.

But we should not give credit to our sin for leading us to Christ, because that is not what sin does. Christ reaches out to us DESPITE our sin, and is willing to liberate us from sin if we are willing to walk with Him.

That was my objection to the original post. Drugs were not a positive experience, and they did not lead him to Christ. If he has a relationship with Christ (and I am not saying he doesn't) then it was Christ who reached out to him despite his sins, and brought him from death into life, just as Christ did with me.

Christ, therefore, deserves the glory for his salvation, and not the drugs.

Quoted: Dropping acid is just as spiritually beneficial as communion! Elvis has left the building.....

Are you faulting my logic or my facts? Are these religious trappings designed to help believers become closer to thier god or not? Do they not change a state of mind? Is that not their very purpose?


Do you take "Soberly" to mean "not drunk" in 2 Timothy 4 instead of meaning "marked by seriousness, gravity, or solemnity of conduct or character"?

If it is to be taken literally then, then why not "Take up serpents?"... But alas we have been over this.....