Quoted: 'Ceasar'? No, Caesar. And the Lord told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. I obey the laws of Caesar regarding this matter, as I would counsel all to do, and, as I am certain that Jesus would do, as well. Don't come to my gun shop or my table at a gun show, and tempt me to do that which is evil. Like selling you a weapon, or something. Other than that you should have no interest in what I do.

Apparently thats what you do (in your mind) all the time. Selling your hardware to us amoral heathens and heretics. You also believe that people who don't believe the same way as you are mentally deficient. Still selling your hardware to us. There is a little kink in your logic here, brother.

I know you are but what am I? Wow that takes me back a few years....to the First Grade!

Really should take you back about 4 posts when you again used this tactic in your discussions.

Nice tactic counselor. Well, now that takes me back..... to last week! This week is too young for me to have heard that comment already! Eric The(ButIWillHearItSoonEnough!)Hun

???

Quoted: Quoted: Will you still stand behind your "So the mere fact that gonja is illegal would make it a sin if we did not consider the fact that it is a carcinogen and that it gets you high....... Any aspect of MJ makes it a sin, and it is to be avoided. "? There is absolutely no cause for a healthy person to use marijuana, or any other form of narcotic, legal or illegal. You are welcome to your opinion on recreational use of various drugs.  Calling  MJ a "narcotic" conflates a scientific concept with a legal definition, as you know.  Marijuana and heroin are both controlled substances, but they are not equivalent on their effects.  Your  feeling that we don't need to use any intoxicating substance is akin to what drove the prohibition of alcohol.  Our prisons have a lot of people in there for offenses far less serious/dangerous than drunk driving.  Go figure. When we start debating based on cancer patients, the calculus changes. There is nothing wrong with providing relief to people who are suffering through the use of medications. That is why we allow the use of morophine in hospital settings (which I can't have because I am allergic to opiates, and even a small ammount will kill me....) and things like methodone in prescriptions. There are legitimate thereputic purposes for these drugs to be given. As I said before, apparently without effect, the problem with the legalization movement is that it isn't about treating cancer patients, but is instead about allowing people to legally smoke weed, specifically people who aren't very ill..... I'm glad to see you're not as totally an absolutist on the question as you were at first.  I do think your position is pretty paternalistic, and something I don't agree with.  I see it as akin to the government "allowing" us to have hunting rifles, but not EBR's.  The "problem" that you posit above is a restatement of a belief that if it's illegal then it's evidence that the government knows best.  That's paternalistic.   The various illicit drugs or the drugs that are commonly considered illicit out there are in fact used in the treatment of various ailments in normal medicine, and limited ammounts of them can be found in many over the counter medicines.  (They use cocaine derivatives to treat some forms of eye trauma, for instance...) The problem is that there is not widespread medical acceptance that MJ provides real thereputic benefits to very sick people. The medical community has to speak loudly in favor of using the drug, which they have not done as yet. There is a growing number of states and physicians who are willing to buck the feds on this. The evidence that nausea control and glaucoma control are useful has been known for several years.  My take on it is that there has never been a way for  the drug houses to financially benefit sufficiently to drive it, and as they frequently operate largely as a de facto branch of the government, it hasn't been driven. Meanwhile, the prohibition on MJ doesn't work, as the average junior high student has access to it. As far as medical community in general, your average doctor has nothing to do with this, and a lot to lose if he displays any independence. For people who have no GENUINE medical necessity for MJ, (which the vast majority of people who are constantly whining about it do NOT posess), then it is a sin. Getting a shot of morophine to alleviate the pain of a kidney stone while under medical treatment is not a sin. Going out and mainlining morophine in a back alley to get high IS a sin.

Elmer Gantry lives!  I don't see the sin aspect as you do, nor do I think it should be the basis of regulating relatively harmless substances.  I think there are a lot of reasons to regulate mind altering substances, including pot and alcohol, especially for children, and in circumstances in which someone could be harmed, such as driving or flying, but "sin" isn't one of them. One man's sin is another man's sensory enhancement.

I'm not comfortable telling adults that they can't make choices of this sort.  BTW, I don't smoke weed, or tobacco, or drink, so I don't really have a dog in this fight.  What differentiates you and me here is that I don't see it in terms of sin.  I see it in terms of unworkable Blue Laws.

I used a lot of both alcohol and MJ 20-30 years ago.  Of the two, I found MJ to be the less harmful.  So let me ask, do you have any personal knowledge of these, or are you basing your opinions entirely on what you see as Biblical direction? I can respect either attitude, just curious. Are you in favor of prison terms for drunkeness, even if nobody gets hurt? You obviously feel very strongly about the scriptural prohibition. Maybe we should throw people who get drunk on the weekend into jail with all those sinful pot smokers who are using with no "medical" reason?

Flash --

This isn't a thread about legalizing drugs.

It is about drug use and whether or not it is compatible with Christianity.

Quoted: Flash -- This isn't a thread about legalizing drugs. It is about drug use and whether or not it is compatible with Christianity.

In your view drugs == sin

I don't believe that.

When that became clear, the original purpose of the thread was pretty much fulfilled, as far as our discussion was concerned.  

BTW, there's a grape extract called 'resveratrol' that Twinlabs sells that purportedly gives the benefits of non-alcoholic wine.  Good health to you.

Quoted: In your view drugs == sin

Not my view, the view of scripture. I have looked up the passages about drunkenness and sorcery (root word is pharmakia, as sorcerers often used mind altering drugs on their "patients" to further their own financial interests. ) in every greek lexicon that I have, and the meanings are exactly as I have stated.

The state of being intoxicated or high is the sin of using these substances.

Now there is plenty of evidence in the Bible for using medicine to treat genuine ailments, and there is no problem with people being prescribed drugs or being given something like morophine under a doctor's care to treat a specific problem or condition.

The sin comes when we get high or drunk outside the realm of legitimate medical need. Alcohol certainly does a great deal of damage in our society, and should be proof enough that even a relatively mild drug has FRIGHTFUL danger when legal. I am not advocating prohibition again, but certainly we need to consider the fact that drunk drivers claim more lives every year than homicides with firearms, and the numerous other social problems that accompany its use.

MJ and other drugs are MORE powerful than alcohol. I can drink a single glass of wine without being impaired, but you can't smoke a joint without getting a buzz on.  That, indeed, is the whole POINT of somking MJ or dropping acid  and the like.

Legal or not, it is painted clearly in scripture as a sin, and scripture is the judge of Christianity. Getting high on legal drugs/substances is just as wrong as on illegal ones, as the state of intoxication by itself is the offense.

I don't believe that.

The beauty of Ameirca is that you can believe whatever you want.

But Christians are not supposed to be free to do whatever they want. They are supposed to live in accordance with the commandments and example of Jesus Christ. He is supposed to be our law and our judge, and we are supposed to submit to His way and will rather than trying to sneak stuff around the cross by playing word games. That was the point of this thread.

When that became clear, the original purpose of the thread was pretty much fulfilled, as far as our discussion was concerned.

Getting stoned/drunk/high IS sin. It is clearly portrayed as such in scripture, and since my faith rests on the Christ of scripture, I am obligated to speak the truth about what it says. If people agree, then wonderful. If they disagree, then at least someone has told them the truth.

BTW, there's a grape extract called 'resveratrol' that Twinlabs sells that purportedly gives the benefits of non-alcoholic wine.  Good health to you.

Hmmm. I will have to look for that. It has to taste better than the NA wine I am drinking. I appreciate the tip!

JW...

Switch to decaf, bro.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.

Quoted: JW... Switch to decaf, bro. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.

I don't drink coffee.

Quoted: Quoted: JW... Switch to decaf, bro. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. I don't drink coffee.

Ah.  Then my work here is done.

Quoted: Quoted: JW... Switch to decaf, bro. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. I don't drink coffee.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, apparently you think coffee isn't addictive to, or do you concider caffeine to be a sin as well?


Chris

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: JW... Switch to decaf, bro. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. I don't drink coffee. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, apparently you think coffee isn't addictive to, or do you concider caffeine to be a sin as well? Chris

Whats this? Seems we have a tale of 2 (countem) 2 john waynes??

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: JW... Switch to decaf, bro. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. I don't drink coffee. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, apparently you think coffee isn't addictive to, or do you concider caffeine to be a sin as well? Chris Whats this? Seems we have a tale of 2 (countem) 2 john waynes??

seems strange indeed.

Chris

could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed.


Chris

Quoted: could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed. Chris

bump

Quoted: Quoted: could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed. Chris bump

I wouldn't waste your time. He doesn't seem to like answering questions.

Besides, I'm in line ahead of you.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed. Chris bump I wouldn't waste your time. He doesn't seem to like answering questions. Besides, I'm in line ahead of you.

yeah, doubtful we'll get either answer. <sigh>

Chris

Isnt this the part where you call him a troll or accuse him of being cyanide?

Quoted: Isnt this the part where you call him a troll or accuse him of being cyanide?

that was good man

Chris

Quoted: could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed. Chris

What exactly is the point you wish to prove?

I do not drink coffee regularly. The last coffee product I drank was one of those Frapicino (spelling...gak) things from Starbucks while I had the flu. I thought I was going to puke all over the car it made me so sick. And since then the thought of drinking any coffee has made me sick to my stomach. That was about 1 year ago. The smell of coffee brewing still makes me sick.

Prior to that, I would say that I drank maybe 1 or 2 cups of coffee or coffee product a year, MAYBE. I have just never been a coffee drinker. I know some people have drank it since birth, but I am not one of them. It has just never tasted good to me.

I do drink iced tea on occasion, but as I said in the other thread I drink mostly water and fruit juices, with the occasional glass of iced tea, some green tea pretty regularly, and a very rare soda, and an even rarer cup of coffee.

I suppose the point you are trying to make is that taking in caffeine is the same thing as using drugs. If so, then let me pre-emptively say that is the MOST IDIOTIC thing I have ever heard. As I asked in the other thread, why is it we never see people high on coffee on cops? It is a rediculous comparison. Coffee does not intoxicate like drugs do. Its effects are so mild that I could drink 5 pots in one day and the worst side effect I would have is having to take a leak every 5 minutes. If I did 5 hits of cocaine in a day, I would be dead.

Your body can become used to coffee and the stimulant in it, just as it can become used to sugar, salt, and various other things that are not terribly good for us in large doses. These other substances can become cravings in the body too.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed. Chris bump I wouldn't waste your time. He doesn't seem to like answering questions. Besides, I'm in line ahead of you.

Thank you. You really made my day with that!

Quoted: Quoted: could you answer JW? it's a fairly simple yes or no. no diatribe needed. Chris What exactly is the point you wish to prove? I do not drink coffee regularly. The last coffee product I drank was one of those Frapicino (spelling...gak) things from Starbucks while I had the flu. I thought I was going to puke all over the car it made me so sick. And since then the thought of drinking any coffee has made me sick to my stomach. That was about 1 year ago. The smell of coffee brewing still makes me sick. Prior to that, I would say that I drank maybe 1 or 2 cups of coffee or coffee product a year, MAYBE. I have just never been a coffee drinker. I know some people have drank it since birth, but I am not one of them. It has just never tasted good to me. I do drink iced tea on occasion, but as I said in the other thread I drink mostly water and fruit juices, with the occasional glass of iced tea, some green tea pretty regularly, and a very rare soda, and an even rarer cup of coffee. I suppose the point you are trying to make is that taking in caffeine is the same thing as using drugs. If so, then let me pre-emptively say that is the MOST IDIOTIC thing I have ever heard. As I asked in the other thread, why is it we never see people high on coffee on cops? It is a rediculous comparison. Coffee does not intoxicate like drugs do. Its effects are so mild that I could drink 5 pots in one day and the worst side effect I would have is having to take a leak every 5 minutes. If I did 5 hits of cocaine in a day, I would be dead. Your body can become used to coffee and the stimulant in it, just as it can become used to sugar, salt, and various other things that are not terribly good for us in large doses. These other substances can become cravings in the body too.

it matters none to me if YOU drink coffee.

is caffeine a drug and there for a sin?

Chris

Quoted: it matters none to me if YOU drink coffee. is caffeine a drug and there for a sin? Chris

No, caffeine is not a sin.

As I said in my post, I could drink coffee until I could no longer remain continent, and I would not be impaired or high or drunk or anything remotely approaching intoxication.

I don't drink coffee because I don't like it. I don't drink sodas because I don't like them either. It isn't a religious thing.

Quoted: Quoted: it matters none to me if YOU drink coffee. is caffeine a drug and there for a sin? Chris No, caffeine is not a sin. As I said in my post, I could drink coffee until I could no longer remain continent, and I would not be impaired or high or drunk or anything remotely approaching intoxication. I don't drink coffee because I don't like it. I don't drink sodas because I don't like them either. It isn't a religious thing.

so this drug caffeine isn't a drug to you, there for not a sin to God?

Just want to make sure I'm hearing you right.

Chris

ETA: too much coffee can in fact impare you BTW. drink a few stiff cups and go shoot.LOL
Chris

"The most popular psychoactive drug in the world. Use of this stimulant is encouraged in most workplaces, although it can be physically addictive"

from WaWaTuSis link:
leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=380

Chris

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: it matters none to me if YOU drink coffee. is caffeine a drug and there for a sin? Chris No, caffeine is not a sin. As I said in my post, I could drink coffee until I could no longer remain continent, and I would not be impaired or high or drunk or anything remotely approaching intoxication. I don't drink coffee because I don't like it. I don't drink sodas because I don't like them either. It isn't a religious thing. so this drug caffeine isn't a drug to you, there for not a sin to God? Just want to make sure I'm hearing you right. Chris ETA: too much coffee can in fact impare you BTW. drink a few stiff cups and go shoot.LOL Chris Good grief, virginia22, are you hard of hearing, or something? I think that John_Wayne777, has answered your question fercryingoutloud. I was on morphine for about two weeks while in the hospital, do you think anyone thinks that was a sin? Does anyone doubt that morphine is a drug? Context, Son, context! Learn it, live it, love it. Eric The(NoSuchThingAsSituationalEthics)Hun

the context is quite clear. some drugs are a sin, while others are not. <confusing> coming from someone so absolutist such as JW. IMHO

and I wasn't talking about hospital approved meds.

Chris

You need to put the crack pipe down and step away from the keyboard!

Quit doing the drugs man!

BigDozer66

MMMMM...... YEA.....


Well, I just wanted to post a little something from me to you all because I have seen this thread keep

popping up on the front page of the General Discussion forum for a while, and have still not

actually read what it's about. But anyway, since it seems so interesting to you all and I'm just assuming

it's another pissing contest between "Believers" and "Non-Believers"... here ya go.

Quoted: Post from virginia22 - the context is quite clear. Yes, it was...until you and others started trying to go beyond the simple subject of this thread regarding drugs. Was onemangang talking about anything other than illegal drugs when this thread started? Then how in Hades was the matter of caffeine germane to this discussion? ...some drugs are a sin, while others are not. <confusing> coming from someone so absolutist such as JW. IMHO Well, it apppears that you are quite happy to have your own 'humble opinion' respected, but you don't wish to have John_Wayne777's opinion respected, is that the gist of it? ...and I wasn't talking about hospital approved meds. As far afield as the issue of whether caffeine was a drug or not took us, how could we tell what specific drugs you were talking about? There are times that drugs are perfectly sinless, and other times when drugs are horribly sinful. It is the context, always, in which the matter must be properly judged. If you are trying to talk Peggy Sue out of her panties by plying her with Vente cups of Starbuck's finest, then, I would hazard to say, that caffeine is sinful! Get it? Eric The(EverHopeful)Hun

well, in one sentence JW says that all drugs are a sin, then after the absolutionist stance all of the sudden, wow, this one drug really isn't a sin.<<< that's how we got there.

maybe letting JW answer on his own will suffice  I did ask him specifically.

Chris

Quoted: Post from virginia22 - well, in one sentence JW says that all drugs are a sin, then after the absolutionist stance all of the sudden, wow, this one drug really isn't a sin.<<< that's how we got there. Context, let me repeat it again, context! I believe that onemangang was referring to illegal drugs, was he not? That is the context for JW's 'absolutist' statement. Don't you think? so sinfulness rests in legality? ...maybe letting JW answer on his own will suffice  I did ask him specifically. Yes, you did, and he has responded, has he not? yes, but I wanted to clarify that what I wrote, was what he meant. you really can't answer for "him" in that. Eric The(Reasonable,AsAlways)Hun

Quoted: Post from virginia22 - so sinfulness rests in legality? Why, yes, it does to a certain extent, doesn't it? Are we not to be obedient to the civil authorities when there is no greater moral issue involved? That has been the teaching of the Christian Church since the very beginning. Render unto Caesar....etc. yes, but I wanted to clarify that what I wrote, was what he meant. you really can't answer for "him" in that. And, as I said, has he not done so? So, what's the frequency, Kenneth? Eric The(Amazed)Hun

that has to be the most hypocritical thing I've ever seen/heard from the "christians",and basically
(to me) another reason to doubt "the word" according to those who will switch it up to suit THEM or the LEGALITY of mans law. also no different IMHO than those you chastize on here in this thread.

thank you for clarifying it. . have a good night Eric the (fundamental) hun.
Chris

Quoted: Post from virginia22 - that has to be the most hypocritical thing I've ever seen/heard from the "christians",and basically (to me) another reason to doubt "the word" according to those who will switch it up to suit THEM or the LEGALITY of mans law. No one can be this misled, so I can only assume that you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, right? If it were up to me, there would be no 'War on Drugs', and drug use would be considered a 'medical issue' between you and your physician. on that we agree, but JW was very absolutionist in his stance that "drugs = sin". Now, praytell, how is this 'switching' anything to suit my religious beliefs???!!! again, the question wasn't for "you". If morphine was legal to purchase, it would, according to my belief from the Scriptures, still be a sin to use for any reason other than the relief of intense pain. To find God? No way! What is so incredibly difficult for you to understand about that? Stop being so obtuse and try and keep your feet solidly on the ground in these discussions! ...also no different IMHO than those you chastize on here in this thread. I do not chastise anyone in this thread, I merely scoff at the beliefs that they say they derive by reading the Scriptures, or by not reading the Scriptures, and yet, saying that it is 'Christian' doctrine.   ... have a good night Eric the (fundamental) hun. - Chris And you have a lovely evening, as well, Chris the Secular Virginian! Eric The(AlwaysGracious)Hun

I feel no less firmly on the ground than you. to the always gracious

Quoted: And a to you, as well, Chris With Feet On The Ground Virginian! If you wish to discuss Christianity with anyone, come to me anytime. I may not have all the answers, but I will try to figure them out IF I think someone is really interested about finding the Truth. Eric The(FundamentalMeansKeepingItSimple)Hun

appreciate the offer, and you may very well hear from me in the future.

Chris

22 ---

If you had bothered to read my earlier posts, you would have discovered the answers to your questions.

I never said ALL drug use is a sin. That is something you are incorrectly extrapolating from only part of my statements.

Not ALL drug use is a sin. In the Bible there is a very clear pattern of using medicine to treat sicknesses and ailments of people. Hezekiah the king was treated for a boil using a poultice made from various plants. The woman with the issue of blood had been to many doctors to try and cure her problem. When Jesus confronted her, He in no manner condemned her seeing doctors and being treated. Luke, who wrote Luke's gospel and the book of Acts, was himself a physician, who treated injuries and ailments among Christians as he traveled with Paul. Even in one of Paul's epistles to Timothy, Paul reccomended that Timothy take a little wine to help with his frequent infirmities. Even in heaven there is a tree whose leaves are used "for the healing of the nations."

There are many more examples in the Bible, but those should suffice to show that nowhere in scripture is the use of doctors or of the medical treatments they proscribe any kind of a sin. Our bodies naturally encounter problems and the various plants and minerals on this earth can prove beneficial in treating us when we are ill.

There is also in the pages of scripture STRONG condemnations of drunkenness, or of being intoxicated. Noah was drunk, and it was a sin. Paul condemned the Corinthian church because some people were getting drunk on the communion wine. Lott was drunk and slept with his daughters, creating the bloodlines of 2 of Israel's great enemies. Throughout scripture there is not a single portrayal of intoxication in a good light. It is universally shown as a sin, weakness, and that there are terrible consequences for it.

In the New Testament churches, growing in the middle of the Roman empire, there were people who were well aquainted with Roman practices of feasting and drinking in excess. Similarly, there were many sorcerers at the time who used various substances (like psychotropic drugs) to induce trances and to perform various rituals and the like on people. Thus the New Testament writers were very careful to show the sin and spiritual danger assosciated with such things.

God gave us food to eat, but we can take that provision out of its proper context and sin with food through gluttony. God made sex for the marriage bed, but we can take it out of its proper context and sin with sex. The Bible instructs us to correct our children, but we can take that out of context and abuse them. We can do the same things with the medicines of the earth.

There is nothing wrong with using MEDICINE to treat a legitimate medical need. Even simple pain can retard the treatment of a patient and their recovery. Some people live with constant back pain and the like that literally cripples them.

There is nothing wrong with using medications, and even powerful drugs to treat LEGITIMATE MEDICAL NEEDS. There is nothing wrong with a doctor giving someone morophine to deal with the pain of a kidney stone.

There IS something SERIOUSLY WRONG with that person shooting morophine in a gutter somewhere. How we are using the drug and why we are using the drug MATTER. Like food, sex, disciplining our children, when we stay within the boundaries God arranged, there is no sin. That is why the marriage bed is undefiled, because when in marriage we are within the confines of God's ordained way, and within that realm we have freedom.

So too we have freedom to use medications to treat legitimate medical needs.

I don't know how to be any clearer than that.

Quoted: well, in one sentence JW says that all drugs are a sin, then after the absolutionist stance all of the sudden, wow, this one drug really isn't a sin.<<< that's how we got there. maybe letting JW answer on his own will suffice  I did ask him specifically. Chris

As I have said NUMEROUS times, there is a VERY REAL difference between drinking a cup of coffee and shooting a dose of heroin, or smoking a rock. There is no intoxication when you drink a cup of coffee, and nobody ends up on Cops because of it.

The same cannot be said of dropping acid.

Quoted: Quoted: well, in one sentence JW says that all drugs are a sin, then after the absolutionist stance all of the sudden, wow, this one drug really isn't a sin.<<< that's how we got there. maybe letting JW answer on his own will suffice  I did ask him specifically. Chris As I have said NUMEROUS times, there is a VERY REAL difference between drinking a cup of coffee and shooting a dose of heroin, or smoking a rock. There is no intoxication when you drink a cup of coffee, and nobody ends up on Cops because of it. The same cannot be said of dropping acid.

again you compare two vastly different drugs to try to get your point accross . acid isn't what we were discussing, was it JW?
as I said JW, no diatribe needed. a simple yes or no would have worked.of course you're comparing something you have absolutly no clue of, yet still regard it as sin.

god will be proud. Keep on picking and choosing those sins JW, and I'll see ya in hell.

Chris

Quoted: again you compare two vastly different drugs to try to get your point accross . acid isn't what we were discussing, was it JW?

The thread is discussing using various illicit substances and its compatibility with Christianity.

as I said JW, no diatribe needed. a simple yes or no would have worked.of course you're comparing something you have absolutly no clue of, yet still regard it as sin.

No, a simple yes or no would NOT have worked. Because when I give a simple yes or no you or somebody else like Wawa come behind me and start making outrageous nonsensical claims about what I say or believe. Thus I find it necessary to be thorough in my answers.

god will be proud. Keep on picking and choosing those sins JW, and I'll see ya in hell. Chris

Again, you are out of your mind.

You won't see me in hell, God willing.

And you are not going to be able to argue before God that using coke and coffee are the same thing. If you think you can, then all those drugs you have done have obviously had their effect on you.

Quoted: Quoted: again you compare two vastly different drugs to try to get your point accross . acid isn't what we were discussing, was it JW? The thread is discussing using various illicit substances and its compatibility with Christianity. and now it has gone to you picking and chosing sin by mans law, making it up as you go along. nothing more, nothing less. as I said JW, no diatribe needed. a simple yes or no would have worked.of course you're comparing something you have absolutly no clue of, yet still regard it as sin. No, a simple yes or no would NOT have worked. Because when I give a simple yes or no you or somebody else like Wawa come behind me and start making outrageous nonsensical claims about what I say or believe. Thus I find it necessary to be thorough in my answers. thorough, but very contradicting JW. god will be proud. Keep on picking and choosing those sins JW, and I'll see ya in hell. Chris Again, you are out of your mind. You won't see me in hell, God willing. And you are not going to be able to argue before God that using coke and coffee are the same thing. If you think you can, then all those drugs you have done have obviously had their effect on you.

if in fact god is real, we'll have us a good laugh over you. can I get 2 crystals, I'm gonna drop some coke

Chris

It's time for this thread to die.

Quoted: if in fact god is real, we'll have us a good laugh over you. can I get 2 crystals, I'm gonna drop some coke Chris

"5Get wisdom! Get understanding!
      Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth.
      6Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you;
      Love her, and she will keep you.
      7Wisdom is the principal thing;
      Therefore get wisdom.
      And in all your getting, get understanding.
      8Exalt her, and she will promote you;
      She will bring you honor, when you embrace her.
      9She will place on your head an ornament of grace;
      A crown of glory she will deliver to you."
      10Hear, my son, and receive my sayings,
      And the years of your life will be many.
      11I have taught you in the way of wisdom;
      I have led you in right paths.
      12When you walk, your steps will not be hindered,
      And when you run, you will not stumble.
      13Take firm hold of instruction, do not let go;
      Keep her, for she is your life.
      14Do not enter the path of the wicked,
      And do not walk in the way of evil.
      15Avoid it, do not travel on it;
      Turn away from it and pass on."

Proverbs 4

Sage advice. You should heed it.

Quoted: Quoted: if in fact god is real, we'll have us a good laugh over you. can I get 2 crystals, I'm gonna drop some coke Chris "5Get wisdom! Get understanding!       Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth.       6Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you;       Love her, and she will keep you.       7Wisdom is the principal thing;       Therefore get wisdom.       And in all your getting, get understanding.       8Exalt her, and she will promote you;       She will bring you honor, when you embrace her.       9She will place on your head an ornament of grace;       A crown of glory she will deliver to you."       10Hear, my son, and receive my sayings,       And the years of your life will be many.       11I have taught you in the way of wisdom;       I have led you in right paths.       12When you walk, your steps will not be hindered,       And when you run, you will not stumble.       13Take firm hold of instruction, do not let go;       Keep her, for she is your life.       14Do not enter the path of the wicked,       And do not walk in the way of evil.       15Avoid it, do not travel on it;       Turn away from it and pass on." Proverbs 4 Sage advice. You should heed it.

scripture, the last vestage of the ahem "saved", just ain't gonna cut it JW.

pick and choose your sins and you and I will be partying in .

Chris

Quoted: scripture, the last vestage of the ahem "saved", just ain't gonna cut it JW. pick and choose your sins and you and I will be partying in . Chris

Yes, it is my last resort.

Because it is the final authority.

I don't pick and choose my sins. I go by the book. Drunkenness is the sin. Using illegal substances is the sin.

You don't like the book? Go take it up with God. Let me know if you can convince Him to change it.

Quoted: Quoted: scripture, the last vestage of the ahem "saved", just ain't gonna cut it JW. pick and choose your sins and you and I will be partying in . Chris Yes, it is my last resort. Because it is the final authority. I don't pick and choose my sins. I go by the book. Drunkenness is the sin. Using illegal substances is the sin. You don't like the book? Go take it up with God. Let me know if you can convince Him to change it.

pick and choose those sins JW, amazing how MANS law overrules gods in "legality" and "sinfulness" huh JW?

are you a morman?

Chris

Quoted: pick and choose those sins JW, amazing how MANS law overrules gods in "legality" and "sinfulness" huh JW?

"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work"

Titus 3

"1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same."

Romans 13

THAT is God's law. Picking and choosing would be to ignore those commands in scripture.

are you a morman? Chris

No, I am not a Mormon.