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Posted: 8/26/2019 11:46:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1) A better trigger 2) Smoother traveling slide during operation are two that immediately come to mind. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 11:47:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Half this thread doesn't know the difference between a 2011 and 1911.
Interesting choice, but I'd rather see more rather than less options out there. |
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Posted: 8/26/2019 11:58:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is true of competition guns. The latest generation of STI mags has a great follower, seem to be in spec from the factory I should fucking hope... and the last round hold open works like it should I've never owned a gun which had magazines that did not - that this actually needs to be said is saying enough.. . I bought ten of them this spring for my Omni and they've all been 100% reliable after thousands of rounds. It's when you start piecing together mags for competition that things require fine tuning. For example, I'm using SVI tubes with Gram's springs and followers and Dawson basepads. While these things are all designed to work together, you have to fiddle with them a bit to make them all fit together. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The biggest thing is that the 2011 magazines are pretty sketch, to the point that Dawson sells a $99 tuning kit for them: https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-sti-2011-hicap-magazine-tuning-kit/ This is a 'feature' unique to the 2011; I'm not aware of any other pistol by major manufacturers that require tuning. 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 12:24:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Half this thread doesn't know the difference between a 2011 and 1911. Interesting choice, but I'd rather see more rather than less options out there. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 12:28:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Rangers have always been vain. I don't have a problem with that as they have a lot of history and Texans are proud of that. I'm ok with the money spent on this. We waste more on stupider stuff.
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Posted: 8/27/2019 1:03:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, that's fairly dumb. Seriously, what can a 1911/2011 do for them that a GLOCK can't for a fifth the price? The Tribal Marshals here in OK switched back to GLOCK from the 2011. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 1:30:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither if which are relevant for the purpose of the firearms in question. I have an sti and love it, but that's an absurd amount of money to waste on a government duty pistol. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 5:38:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool story. Just don’t get into a gunfight and everything will be fine. 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 5:52:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to spend 3k to get it, but the absolute biggest failing of Glock as a law enforcement gun is a lack of manual safety or a hammer that can be thumbed down on reholstering. Yes, I am about to get dog piled by the GD Striker Fired This is My Safety brigade, don't care. LE guns get drawn, pointed, and quickly and blindly reholstered FAR more than they get used to shoot people. LE guns also are often in hand during activities likely to lead to negligent discharges. They probably shouldn't be, but the reality is they are, and will be because people do dumb shit under stress despite training. I can think of 5-10 ND incidents from personal experience that would not have happened with a manual safety engaged. Don't even get me started on the Safariland Glock holsters cut for WMLs that let a sausage finger sized object into the trigger guard while holstered with all retention devices engaged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: 1) A better trigger 2) Smoother traveling slide during operation are two that immediately come to mind. Yes, I am about to get dog piled by the GD Striker Fired This is My Safety brigade, don't care. LE guns get drawn, pointed, and quickly and blindly reholstered FAR more than they get used to shoot people. LE guns also are often in hand during activities likely to lead to negligent discharges. They probably shouldn't be, but the reality is they are, and will be because people do dumb shit under stress despite training. I can think of 5-10 ND incidents from personal experience that would not have happened with a manual safety engaged. Don't even get me started on the Safariland Glock holsters cut for WMLs that let a sausage finger sized object into the trigger guard while holstered with all retention devices engaged. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 5:59:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As much as we'd all like to believe that "special" military and police units are all about mission first, the fact is a whole lot of their decision making circles back to "look at me." For example, military special units and the pervasive Viking beard, you know, so tribal elders respect them or some such bullshit. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 6:00:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to spend 3k to get it, but the absolute biggest failing of Glock as a law enforcement gun is a lack of manual safety or a hammer that can be thumbed down on reholstering. Yes, I am about to get dog piled by the GD Striker Fired This is My Safety brigade, don't care. LE guns get drawn, pointed, and quickly and blindly reholstered FAR more than they get used to shoot people. LE guns also are often in hand during activities likely to lead to negligent discharges. They probably shouldn't be, but the reality is they are, and will be because people do dumb shit under stress despite training. I can think of 5-10 ND incidents from personal experience that would not have happened with a manual safety engaged. Don't even get me started on the Safariland Glock holsters cut for WMLs that let a sausage finger sized object into the trigger guard while holstered with all retention devices engaged. Glock, no external safety.....OMFG!!!! If you want something to put your thumb on to holster, get a striker control device (SCD) put on the Glocks. Still a better gun for duty use than any 1911. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 6:58:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Interesting choice, will be neat to see how the hold up under use in a LE capacity.
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:08:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. New gen mags are nothing like the 2011 mags of old. The new mags just plain work. That solves 99% of the issues people used to have. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
STI switched owners in 2018. The new owners poured a shitload of money and machinery into developing a duty-ready pistol. They also pared the line of pistols down to a Comp line and Duty line. Further, they had the magazines re-designed and switched the mag manufacture to a major magazine company. The new mags are nothing like the old mags that needed to be "tuned." They had Dawson of Dawson Precision come on as a consultant to train all of the gunsmiths who assemble the guns and improve processes. I am purchasing one, at the special guy price, and will carry it on duty after I get about 2k rounds and a lot of draws and manipulation practice with it. It will replace my Nighthawk Costa. The real problem with STI's for duty is duty holster availability. First, though, I need to actually get back to the range and shoot. It's probably been well over a year. 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:26:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting choice, will be neat to see how the hold up under use in a LE capacity. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:27:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the getting the special G19L's or is the Border Patrol? |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:34:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Border Patrol (Customs and Border Protection) isn't getting a "19L" they are getting 17/19/26 size frames. The 47 just has a 19 dust cover but still a 17 length slide, they're also MOS cut Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are the getting the special G19L's or is the Border Patrol? |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:45:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Get the best of both. Sig 226 Legion
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:50:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the years upon years of revolver use by LE (mind you, none have safeties)....no big deal. Glock, no external safety.....OMFG!!!! If you want something to put your thumb on to holster, get a striker control device (SCD) put on the Glocks. Still a better gun for duty use than any 1911. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:52:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Those 2011’s are cool, but they made the wrong choice IMHO.
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:52:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Why pay for your dream gun when you can make the taxpayer foot the bill?
They can afford to buy a Glock if they want one, but the STI is probably a bit too steep. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:54:12 AM EDT
[#21]
If they want a 45 they should go with a CZ 97
All steel and higher capacity |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 7:56:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Should have gotten then from CMP.
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:01:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That revolver also had a 10lb trigger pull, and an external hammer. Glock has a 5lb trigger pull and no external hammer. It's moot anyway, the future is Sig P320 with or without manual safety it is the direction of the future. You completely overlook my main point that addresses the exposed hammer disparity between striker and hammer. Also, not all revolvers have exposed hammers.... I'd rather they have picked the m17 over the sti, still a better duty gun than the 1911....even if the m17 is a striker gun lacking an exposed hammer. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:06:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow - those grips are  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow - those grips are |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:07:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe, maybe not. You completely overlook my main point that addresses the exposed hammer disparity between striker and hammer. Also, not all revolvers have exposed hammers.... I'd rather they have picked the m17 over the sti, still a better duty gun than the 1911....even if the m17 is a striker gun lacking an exposed hammer. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:09:08 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK....I thought I read something about that 17 slide going on a 19 frame. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are the getting the special G19L's or is the Border Patrol? |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:19:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
STI switched owners in 2018. The new owners poured a shitload of money and machinery into developing a duty-ready pistol. They also pared the line of pistols down to a Comp line and Duty line. Further, they had the magazines re-designed and switched the mag manufacture to a major magazine company. The new mags are nothing like the old mags that needed to be "tuned." They had Dawson of Dawson Precision come on as a consultant to train all of the gunsmiths who assemble the guns and improve processes. I am purchasing one, at the special guy price, and will carry it on duty after I get about 2k rounds and a lot of draws and manipulation practice with it. It will replace my Nighthawk Costa. The real problem with STI's for duty is duty holster availability. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:32:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they want a 45 they should go with a CZ 97 All steel and higher capacity |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:40:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glocks are like the overweight skank at the bar every night blowing dues in the bathroom for free. yeah she's easy, she's good for that night you need her, but you don't want to be caught with her on your hip out on the town 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:46:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's moot anyway, the future is Sig P320 with or without manual safety it is the direction of the future. 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:47:23 AM EDT
[#31]
 Attached File Attached File“STI’s are unreliable crap. They can’t be trusted for duty use. Cops shouldn’t carry them.” etc. etc. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:48:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting choice, will be neat to see how the hold up under use in a LE capacity. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:49:06 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I heard Sig is really ramping up production. https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FGQWO0QX0_t4%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1 |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:52:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/90704/82ED8693-CE00-4F36-BA56-7BB188BCC6C3_jpeg-1069016.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/90704/9C3E795E-8C42-420A-B8CC-836D939B20AC_jpeg-1069017.JPG "STI's are unreliable crap. They can't be trusted for duty use. Cops shouldn't carry them." etc. etc. Now with 150% more nuts! |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:53:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still a better gun than glock has ever produced. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I heard Sig is really ramping up production. https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FGQWO0QX0_t4%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1 |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:54:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not have a unnatural grip angle? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, that's fairly dumb. Seriously, what can a 1911/2011 do for them that a GLOCK can't for a fifth the price? The Tribal Marshals here in OK switched back to GLOCK from the 2011. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:54:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am sorry to have to tell you that you are quite delusional. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:59:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/90704/82ED8693-CE00-4F36-BA56-7BB188BCC6C3_jpeg-1069016.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/90704/9C3E795E-8C42-420A-B8CC-836D939B20AC_jpeg-1069017.JPG “STI’s are unreliable crap. They can’t be trusted for duty use. Cops shouldn’t carry them.” etc. etc. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:00:51 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Starting with Gen4, you can change the grip angle on a Glock. It's been nearly 10 years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, that's fairly dumb. Seriously, what can a 1911/2011 do for them that a GLOCK can't for a fifth the price? The Tribal Marshals here in OK switched back to GLOCK from the 2011. For recoil control from an ergonomic standpoint the glock angle is actually better. If your tiny brain can't move your front sight down the fraction of an inch required to bring a glock on target compared to a 1911, maybe shooting pistols isn't your thing to begin with. I shoot glocks, CZ-75 variants, and 1911 variants interchangeably and it boggles the mind to think that there are people that somehow can't handle the slight change between them. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:05:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The vast majority of SWAT teams are a self-licking ice cream, waiting for a place to occur. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As much as we'd all like to believe that "special" military and police units are all about mission first, the fact is a whole lot of their decision making circles back to "look at me." For example, military special units and the pervasive Viking beard, you know, so tribal elders respect them or some such bullshit. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:07:07 AM EDT
[#41]
It’s not the arrow, it’s the Indian. What a complete waste of my tax dollars.
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:08:01 AM EDT
[#42]
interesting to see who's shot a decent STI (or similar race gun) and who hasn't.
I've owned and competed with a few STI in single and double stack for a while. I shot 2 examples of the staccato P recently and they are freaking laser guns. Newer shooters were averaging better times on plate racks with them than any of the other polymer guns they were used to. If you don't dick with the mags trying to get ultimate capacity and stick with standard you'll be fine. Same as when people throw followers on glock mags, stuff get's wonky. A good single action trigger is really a joy to shoot and significantly more accurate for many people. Myself included. I make better hits with 1911s than anything else, and in competition speed and accuracy matter. While I've never been in a 2 way range, i would imagine I'd want those advantages as well. In fact I do, it's why I'm getting an STI staccato C to carry. Forgetting to turn off a safety is a software issue, not hardware. Train with your shit. I train with a 1911 and have no issue. I would put my times and accuracy up against damn near anyone I know. There's a reason almost no open/limited shooters that win matches shoot glocks (unless sponsored by them). It's easier to shoot a better gun better. Most people don't shoot enough to know or use the difference. Those that can sure deserve it. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:09:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The grip angle argument is goofy as fuck anyway. For recoil control from an ergonomic standpoint the glock angle is actually better. If your tiny brain can't move your front sight down the fraction of an inch required to bring a glock on target compared to a 1911, maybe shooting pistols isn't your thing to begin with. I shoot glocks, CZ-75 variants, and 1911 variants interchangeably and it boggles the mind to think that there are people that somehow can't handle the slight change between them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, that's fairly dumb. Seriously, what can a 1911/2011 do for them that a GLOCK can't for a fifth the price? The Tribal Marshals here in OK switched back to GLOCK from the 2011. For recoil control from an ergonomic standpoint the glock angle is actually better. If your tiny brain can't move your front sight down the fraction of an inch required to bring a glock on target compared to a 1911, maybe shooting pistols isn't your thing to begin with. I shoot glocks, CZ-75 variants, and 1911 variants interchangeably and it boggles the mind to think that there are people that somehow can't handle the slight change between them. 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:26:06 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
interesting to see who's shot a decent STI (or similar race gun) and who hasn't.
I've owned and competed with a few STI in single and double stack for a while. I shot 2 examples of the staccato P recently and they are freaking laser guns. Newer shooters were averaging better times on plate racks with them than any of the other polymer guns they were used to. If you don't dick with the mags trying to get ultimate capacity and stick with standard you'll be fine. Same as when people throw followers on glock mags, stuff get's wonky. A good single action trigger is really a joy to shoot and significantly more accurate for many people. Myself included. I make better hits with 1911s than anything else, and in competition speed and accuracy matter. While I've never been in a 2 way range, i would imagine I'd want those advantages as well. In fact I do, it's why I'm getting an STI staccato C to carry. Forgetting to turn off a safety is a software issue, not hardware. Train with your shit. I train with a 1911 and have no issue. I would put my times and accuracy up against damn near anyone I know. There's a reason almost no open/limited shooters that win matches shoot glocks (unless sponsored by them). It's easier to shoot a better gun better. Most people don't shoot enough to know or use the difference. Those that can sure deserve it. The problem is they are not failure tolerant and they do not do well in adverse conditions. I have Gen 1 glock mags that still work fine in current guns with the original worn out mag springs. That doesn't work with a 2011. I shoot competitively too and I have seen many "reliable" 2011 variants randomly fail on a 1 way range. Always some excuse: mags, cleaning, ammo etc etc. Glocks fail too but not nearly as often. There is no free lunch with accuracy. The 2011 is more accurate than a glock because the clearances between the barrel, slide, and frame are smaller. This is great until you introduce environmental particulates and things get crunchy. Same with the mags. Very little margin for adversity. The 2011 is a range gun. That's what it is designed for and that's what its good for. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:30:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, that's fairly dumb. Seriously, what can a 1911/2011 do for them that a GLOCK can't for a fifth the price? The Tribal Marshals here in OK switched back to GLOCK from the 2011. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:33:13 AM EDT
[#46]
Lol
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:36:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disgusting waste of taxpayer money. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:48:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You forgot to mention, match grade barrels that are more accurate, smoother slide to frame fit for smoother slide movement, a magwell for faster, more precise combat reloading, and a slimmer profile for easier concealment during on and off duty carry. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:53:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most likely "not at all" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting choice, will be neat to see how the hold up under use in a LE capacity. Same maintenance requirements. Those requirements are - put lube in it, feed it good ammo and it runs. Difference is not fighting my way through a striker trigger to break a clean shot without moving the gun. If I had to take a shot over the shoulder of a hostage at a perp, I would much rather do it with the 2011 than the glock. Downside that I see is weight. 2011s are fucking heavy. Part of the reason why they shoot so nicely. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:57:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s not the arrow, it’s the Indian. What a complete waste of my tax dollars. This is one govt expenditure I can support. |
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