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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:11:45 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: ISIS is still there, and Pompeo avoided the topic of the inevitable slaughter of our allies when we leave. As the DoD said recently, the gains against ISIS are “vulnerable” and we have “tough battles ahead.” Nothing has changed. Seems to be a never ending problem that will not stop. Someday we will wake up, and the ONLY Superpower with a global footprint, military bases on every continent, and the ability to project power across the globe will be China. I did not know that. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:13:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus, he was probably on board with "Western expansion" into our frontiers. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:13:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
George Washington wanted the geographically blessed US to remain isolationist. There is only one outcome to that scenario. So, if China tried to get those lands I would imagine he would have tried hard to stop that. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:14:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus, he was probably on board with "Western expansion" into our frontiers. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:15:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jefferson knew it was unconstitutional too. Everything after is fruit of the poison tree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. So talk is cheap when coming from a politician...…….it is what they do that counts. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:17:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet he (and I am just about positive Washington would have been on board) did expand. So talk is cheap when coming from a politician...…….it is what they do that counts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. So talk is cheap when coming from a politician...…….it is what they do that counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Indian_War |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:19:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here’s a horribly written, but relatively thorough, Wikipedia article on that era. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Indian_War Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. So talk is cheap when coming from a politician...…….it is what they do that counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Indian_War He was for expansion. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:26:28 AM EDT
[#8]
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Sure would be nice to know if Trump is somehow indebted to either of those countries that would cause him to make such overtures.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watching the fucking MSM you'd think Mattis and Trump had a screaming fight and he stormed out, quitting immediately! He's leaving in FEBRUARY, not immediately! And, yeah, he couldn't handle Trump's 4D chess where bad guys could possibly become allies and long-time allies could be called for their weasel bullshit and fall from grace. Oh well, enjoy post-retirement life, Gen Mattis, you have earned your rest! Gen Mattis said he saw more clear cut dividing lines between us and them and didn't think we should be attacking long time friends. I see him more as wanting to maintain the status quo and wanting to see everything as black and white without blurring the edges. How long would such spying take to find definitive proof? More or less than 2 years? 
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Trump contradicts himself constantly. That’s the issue. He makes tactical decisions that undermine his strategy. Because he doesn’t understand his own strategy. If you don't listen moves like this will come as a surprise. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:39:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well there you go...….thanks. He was for expansion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. So talk is cheap when coming from a politician...…….it is what they do that counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Indian_War He was for expansion. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:41:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course it is. But it is what it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The downfall of populism. People whine and cry “elitist!” when you suggest that there are military and intelligence subject matter experts who know more than a poll. A multi-decade, long term approach to National Security is essential. We look at what threats we expect to face in 20 years, and try to be prepared to face them. Long term planning is never something populists appreciate. It’s like white trash and retirement plans. But it is what it is. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:42:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Sorry, I learn the most from arguing the opposition viewpoint, but I’m struggling with this. While I know a handful of people believe it, I think the vast majority of Americans agree that the LP was the right move. I do wish that those powers had been included or amended into the Constitution as I do think it set bad precedent for more abuses of the Constitution.
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:43:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe we should use the full power of the IC to spy on Trump for any Russia collusion? How long would such spying take to find definitive proof? More or less than 2 years?
Trump has been telling you he will get the troops out of Syria for quite a while. If you don't listen moves like this will come as a surprise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watching the fucking MSM you'd think Mattis and Trump had a screaming fight and he stormed out, quitting immediately! He's leaving in FEBRUARY, not immediately! And, yeah, he couldn't handle Trump's 4D chess where bad guys could possibly become allies and long-time allies could be called for their weasel bullshit and fall from grace. Oh well, enjoy post-retirement life, Gen Mattis, you have earned your rest! Gen Mattis said he saw more clear cut dividing lines between us and them and didn't think we should be attacking long time friends. I see him more as wanting to maintain the status quo and wanting to see everything as black and white without blurring the edges. How long would such spying take to find definitive proof? More or less than 2 years?
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Trump contradicts himself constantly. That’s the issue. He makes tactical decisions that undermine his strategy. Because he doesn’t understand his own strategy. If you don't listen moves like this will come as a surprise. Who decides which tweets and campaign slogans take precedent? When they contradict, then what? Should we have foreseen this wall funding standoff, or should we have expected Mexico to pay for it? |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:43:04 AM EDT
[#13]
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Expansion is fine. Buying LAND from other COUNTRIES with OUR TAXES AND PUTTING IUR GRANDCHILDERN INTO DEBT was UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND BAD PRECEDENT!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: George Washington wanted China to be a Superpower with the ability to impose their will on the US? I did not know that. And we would know for sure if he had lived long enough...…...and we KNOW Jefferson was. So talk is cheap when coming from a politician...…….it is what they do that counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Indian_War He was for expansion. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:45:16 AM EDT
[#14]
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I’ve stopped contributing to my TSP, because I need that money to buy a Monster Truck! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: The downfall of populism. People whine and cry “elitist!” when you suggest that there are military and intelligence subject matter experts who know more than a poll. A multi-decade, long term approach to National Security is essential. We look at what threats we expect to face in 20 years, and try to be prepared to face them. Long term planning is never something populists appreciate. It’s like white trash and retirement plans. But it is what it is. 
Because I am whacked........my mind went to......…."Now Cincinnatus the thought of you in a 'Bro Dozer' has me...…….well...…….it has me...……….going...…………." 
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:49:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trump has been telling you he will get the troops out of Syria for quite a while. If you don't listen moves like this will come as a surprise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watching the fucking MSM you'd think Mattis and Trump had a screaming fight and he stormed out, quitting immediately! He's leaving in FEBRUARY, not immediately! And, yeah, he couldn't handle Trump's 4D chess where bad guys could possibly become allies and long-time allies could be called for their weasel bullshit and fall from grace. Oh well, enjoy post-retirement life, Gen Mattis, you have earned your rest! Gen Mattis said he saw more clear cut dividing lines between us and them and didn't think we should be attacking long time friends. I see him more as wanting to maintain the status quo and wanting to see everything as black and white without blurring the edges. Quoted:
Trump contradicts himself constantly. That’s the issue. He makes tactical decisions that undermine his strategy. Because he doesn’t understand his own strategy. If you don't listen moves like this will come as a surprise. He has a National Strategy, and associated specific plans with associated orders that HE has approved. That he said at one point that someday we will end an expedition, should that REALLY mean that we need to be ready to leave at any minute? That’s poor leadership, and the absence of strategic vision. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:49:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you’re arguing that the Secretary of Defense should develop strategy based on tweets and campaign slogans, and not formal strategy guidance signed by the President. Who decides which tweets and campaign slogans take precedent? When they contradict, then what? Should we have foreseen this wall funding standoff, or should we have expected Mexico to pay for it?
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Posted: 12/22/2018 12:00:55 PM EDT
[#17]
In 2006, Senator Hillary Clinton was at a briefing in the Pentagon right before the Surge.
She asked the Chairman if they had developed an “exit strategy” for Iraq. The Chaurman said “no.” She became angry and asked, “But haven’t you heard us on the Sunday shows and in the Senate demanding that there be such a strategy?” “No ma’am” |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 12:03:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 2006, Senator Hillary Clinton was at a briefing in the Pentagon right before the Surge. She asked the Chairman if they had developed an “exit strategy” for Iraq. The Chaurman said “no.” She became angry and asked, “But haven’t you heard us on the Sunday shows and in the Senate demanding that there be such a strategy?” “No ma’am” |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 12:23:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Containing such never ending problems is just kind of a thing we used to think we needed to do. And, is a thing Trump asked Mattis to develop a Strategy to do. We contained Commies for over 40 years. If "containing" these problems means spending more money than we have and sacrificing lives for decades on end then that isn't taking care of the problem. It didn't work out well for the Soviet Union and it won't work out well for us. There isn't one example where it did work out well. So no, we haven't always pittered our resources away policing the world. Our most successful actions were the ones where we went in, did what we had to, and left. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 12:26:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was a marine spouse and hung out with a lot of Marines it was during the longest period of peace time after the Viet nam fiasco. I new guys that got out because they thought we would never have a war again. If "containing" these problems means spending more money than we have and sacrificing lives for decades on end then that isn't taking care of the problem. It didn't work out well for the Soviet Union and it won't work out well for us. There isn't one example where it did work out well. So no, we haven't always pittered our resources away policing the world. Our most successful actions were the ones where we went in, did what we had to, and left. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 12:33:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was a marine spouse and hung out with a lot of Marines it was during the longest period of peace time after the Viet nam fiasco. I new guys that got out because they thought we would never have a war again. If "containing" these problems means spending more money than we have and sacrificing lives for decades on end then that isn't taking care of the problem. It didn't work out well for the Soviet Union and it won't work out well for us. There isn't one example where it did work out well. So no, we haven't always pittered our resources away policing the world. Our most successful actions were the ones where we went in, did what we had to, and left. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Containing such never ending problems is just kind of a thing we used to think we needed to do. And, is a thing Trump asked Mattis to develop a Strategy to do. We contained Commies for over 40 years. If "containing" these problems means spending more money than we have and sacrificing lives for decades on end then that isn't taking care of the problem. It didn't work out well for the Soviet Union and it won't work out well for us. There isn't one example where it did work out well. So no, we haven't always pittered our resources away policing the world. Our most successful actions were the ones where we went in, did what we had to, and left. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 5:30:18 PM EDT
[#22]
The top US envoy to the global coalition fighting ISIS announced that he is resigning on Saturday in the wake of President Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria.
Brett McGurk was set to step down in February but moved up his departure date by two months to December 31 after very publicly stating the possibly catastrophic outcome that could result should President Trump elect to pull American forces at this time.  
McGurk is shown visiting a water treatment plant south of Mosul in Iraq on May 15, 2017 More |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 6:33:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The top US envoy to the global coalition fighting ISIS announced that he is resigning on Saturday in the wake of President Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria. Brett McGurk was set to step down in February but moved up his departure date by two months to December 31 after very publicly stating the possibly catastrophic outcome that could result should President Trump elect to pull American forces at this time. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/22/18/7735730-6523029-image-m-15_1545502442225.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/22/18/7739256-6523029-image-a-28_1545504565715.jpg McGurk is shown visiting a water treatment plant south of Mosul in Iraq on May 15, 2017 More |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:02:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
George Washington wanted the geographically blessed US to remain isolationist. There is only one outcome to that scenario. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:06:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Trump’s claim that ISIS has been defeated will come back to haunt him.
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:07:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He lived long enough. Google “Mad” Anthony Wayne... probably the last guy before Mattis to have nickname with “mad” in it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:08:08 PM EDT
[#27]
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Then Tom Jefferson said fuck that Quote HistoryQuoted:
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George Washington wanted the geographically blessed US to remain isolationist. There is only one outcome to that scenario. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:10:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe we should use the full power of the IC to spy on Trump for any Russia collusion? How long would such spying take to find definitive proof? More or less than 2 years? Trump has been telling you he will get the troops out of Syria for quite a while. If you don't listen moves like this will come as a surprise.  President Trump explains his plan for Afghanistan |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:11:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Expansion is fine. Buying LAND from other COUNTRIES with OUR TAXES AND PUTTING IUR GRANDCHILDERN INTO DEBT was UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND BAD PRECEDENT!!! 
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:14:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was a marine spouse and hung out with a lot of Marines it was during the longest period of peace time after the Viet nam fiasco. I new guys that got out because they thought we would never have a war again. If "containing" these problems means spending more money than we have and sacrificing lives for decades on end then that isn't taking care of the problem. It didn't work out well for the Soviet Union and it won't work out well for us. There isn't one example where it did work out well. So no, we haven't always pittered our resources away policing the world. Our most successful actions were the ones where we went in, did what we had to, and left. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:18:15 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:24:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean not all conflicts will be resolved in one fell-swoop and have the boys home by Christmas ? https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/12/22/about-2600-troops-prepare-spend-christmas-mexico-border.html |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:34:39 PM EDT
[#33]
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If that is what the American voters want (i.e., not staying in places for extended periods of time) then that is the way it will be sooner or later. You, Bohr and I can fight that ideology but in the end we will lose. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:41:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mattis seemed to imply thinking Russia and China were allies is pretty stupid. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:44:04 PM EDT
[#35]
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Pompeo sounds on board with the Syrian withdrawal. He said our mission there was to destroy the ISIS caliphate and that was accomplished. https://www.npr.org/2018/12/20/678742858/transcript-nprs-full-interview-with-secretary-of-state-mike-pompeo |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:46:53 PM EDT
[#36]
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But if we brought everyone home (MAGA), they wouldn’t dare attack us anywhere because they’d know our only options would be do nothing or go nuclear. Missiles do everything better than planes. And they wouldn’t want to risk us going nuclear so they’d behave.  
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Posted: 12/22/2018 7:53:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistorySaw that yesterday. I can count on one hand the number of Democrats who’ve stayed consistent on foreign policy since Trump took office. MSNBC being the most hilarious of the pearl clutching over withdrawal
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Posted: 12/22/2018 8:07:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 2006, Senator Hillary Clinton was at a briefing in the Pentagon right before the Surge. She asked the Chairman if they had developed an “exit strategy” for Iraq. The Chaurman said “no.” She became angry and asked, “But haven’t you heard us on the Sunday shows and in the Senate demanding that there be such a strategy?” “No ma’am” |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 8:49:36 PM EDT
[#39]
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If only Thomas Jefferson had nukes back in 1801 those Barbary Coast pirates wouldn’t a done shit Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But if we brought everyone home (MAGA), they wouldn’t dare attack us anywhere because they’d know our only options would be do nothing or go nuclear. Missiles do everything better than planes. And they wouldn’t want to risk us going nuclear so they’d behave. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 10:08:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trump’s claim that ISIS has been defeated will come back to haunt him. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 10:18:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry but when someone insists we stay in Afgjanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc. While being completely cucked to defending our own border you can gtfo. Every single one of these fuckers would love to be in every country the world over for decades if not centuries if they had their way. |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 10:27:33 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 12/22/2018 10:30:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The idea that he gave Mattis a “second chance” lends credence to the idea that Obama fired him for cause. Mattis spoke truth to power and Obama fired him for it. Once again... |
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Posted: 12/22/2018 11:40:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Drain the swamp (swamp creatures will show up invited and even eat the free corn 2 or 3X).
Close our border, swamp creatures lose votes and the ultimate control they so desperately will do to win at any of YOUR cost (including a .gov shutdown over a fraction of what foodstamps cost the taxpayers for 1 month). Quit spending what we don't have on swamp creatures, lovers, personal profit and free shit. Anyone could see plenty of pissed folks for anything they could grasp a hold of on anyone not playing THEIR game. And here we are, pissed over a small tarp/bone like bumpstocks or doing what was promised. Never saw it coming since 1/20/17. It's ALL a lie. 
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Posted: 12/23/2018 1:18:01 AM EDT
[#45]
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Trump is making a fool of himself. The idea that he gave Mattis a "second chance" lends credence to the idea that Obama fired him for cause. Mattis spoke truth to power and Obama fired him for it. Once again... |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 1:30:01 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 12/23/2018 1:51:48 AM EDT
[#47]
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Like or dislike Mattis, since he hasn’t said shit since his letter or appeared on CNN talking shit and considering he’s still on the job till next February, it might be better to just drop the issue and when it’s time showcase his replacement, rather than highlight anything pro or con about Mattis in the interim Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's why Trump will do no such thing. "Low Energy Mattis"... Just wait, it's coming...
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Posted: 12/23/2018 2:03:40 AM EDT
[#48]
I am beginning to think Mattis should have been fired.
April 2018 President Trump orders DOD to plan withdraw from Syria. Trump instructs military to begin planning for withdrawal from Syria By Karen DeYoung and Shane Harris April 4 President Trump has instructed military leaders to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria as soon as possible and told them he wants Arab allies to take over and pay for stabilizing and reconstructing areas liberated from the Islamic State, according to senior U.S. officials. In a meeting with top national security aides Tuesday, Trump backtracked on his public insistence that the troop exit was imminent, now that the militants were “close to 100 percent” defeated. Pressed by the president to tell him how much more time they needed to finish the job, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Joseph F. Dunford Jr. said it would probably be months, not years, officials said. Trump agreed that the military, as fighting continued against remaining militant pockets, could train local security forces. But officials said he stressed that U.S. strategic goals in Syria do not include longer-term stability or reconstruction efforts. He said he did not want to be having the same conversation about withdrawal six months or more from now. -------------------------------------------------- So the President was not pulling the rug out from under the allies. He has been making it clear for months we were coming out soon, and Gen Mattis was being...insubordinate. |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 2:05:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The top US envoy to the global coalition fighting ISIS announced that he is resigning on Saturday in the wake of President Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria. Brett McGurk was set to step down in February but moved up his departure date by two months to December 31 after very publicly stating the possibly catastrophic outcome that could result should President Trump elect to pull American forces at this time. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/22/18/7735730-6523029-image-m-15_1545502442225.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/22/18/7739256-6523029-image-a-28_1545504565715.jpg McGurk is shown visiting a water treatment plant south of Mosul in Iraq on May 15, 2017 More |
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Posted: 12/23/2018 2:49:38 AM EDT
[#50]
 
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