There's a size, speed and violence differential that would leave most kick boxers piled in a corner pretty fast.

Size really does matter

Thats the first sign of a bad fight.  You know one guy is training to making weight and the other guy is just showing up to get beat.

I've watched enough UFC to know he was setting up a head kick.

protect yourself at all times. Dude got feinted on those 2 kicks and number 3 was lights out.

Why do you assume there's no kickboxers/MMA athletes the same size as a football player?  There are many.

If it lasts more than thirty seconds most of the NFL fatties will be sucking wind.

Studying a martial art in a sterile environment, maybe with some really controlled sparring is a very different thing than training to fight. It’s just a whole different animal.  A trained fighter will almost always beat the shit out of someone who is not a trained fighter because that’s specifically what he trains to do. To think otherwise is foolish.

Similarly, there is also a difference between fighting in a ring with rules and referees and fighting some other dude who also knows how to fight when there are no rules and nobody to keep it safe (but the margin there is a lot narrower). The guy from the dojo might be in better shape and know more about how to throw a punch than some other dude randomly walking down the street, and might even have a better than average chance of winning that fight, but against someone that spends their time specifically fighting other people who also train to fight, it’s not even going to be a contest.

Practical knowledge, abstracted practical knowledge, and largely theoretical knowledge are all different things (though there can be some overlap). When some guy wants to beat the piss out of you it quickly becomes evident, but there are plenty of other examples as well.

A real, working cowhand is a lot different than a rodeo cowboy, who is a lot different from some guy who just took FFA in high school. Joe Redneck that grew up hunting squirrels might be a good shot, but he probably wouldn’t win a 3-gun (or IDPA, or IPSC, or sporting clays, or F-class) match because the competitors there have trained for that specific discipline. Both are very different from the guy who spent a few years clearing insurgent neighborhoods in Iraq too.

My first match was a real eye opener. My teenaged ego might have convinced me that I did ok, but the real truth is, I had a lot of confidence, but got my ass handed to me by a skinny Mexican kid.  After that, my training (both practical and physical) took a hard right turn. Even after that, I was never really very good, but a lot of useless nonsense I thought was important got jettisoned in a big hurry. Similarly, getting smacked in the head with a baseball bat a few times outside a convenience store at 3am was another life lesson.

Saenchai would have knocked out Ding Oww under 20 seconds.

So Krav Maga

So basically it’s not a very effective fighting discipline.

Yep. I know nothing about Wang Chung or kickboxing and I was surprised dude didn't see it coming.

The UFC is like IPSC in that it has really advanced both martial arts/shooting.  But in both cases the rules necessary to keep people safe, can limit, and in some cases really hamper what would be beneficial in a true street fight.  Use of cover isn't usually important in IPSC but is very important in a real fight.  In a real street fight, being trained to not do any eye gouging, kicking a downed opponent and many other techniques that are rightly banned from sport fighting can be detrimental if someone is in a fight if the opponent doesn't play by the same rules.

However in both cases (IPSC and MMA) advances in techniques gained from IPSC and MMA have been significant.  True fighters know how to adapt and train accordingly.

Hokey religions and ancient martial arts styles are no match for a good roundhouse kick, kid.

JKD is just the way Lee described MMA in chinese. He started out with wing chun but he found it wanting pretty quickly.

There's some issues with JKD not being an organized art so a lot of people claim to be qualified to instruct who shouldn't though.

It's not so much that traditional arts are bullshit as some are just way better than others, none are really complete, there's always something more to learn.

MMA has just provided constant experimentation and objective results on what works.

The practicality of the Chinese, and indeed all other martial arts, was proven in the Boxer Rebellion. When the Chinese Grandmasters got mowed down by American privates and sergeants using rifles. That's why the Chinese Now teach their soldiers to shoot more than anything else.

Sum ting wong wif my awms.. they no wook

Just like the old cliche, "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian", in this case it's not the art, but the artist.  Some people are naturally better fighters than others.  Wing Chun guy may have never actually been in a real fight in his life.  Or if he was, maybe he was in fights against guys who really sucked at fighting, so he got all big-headed and thought he was Billy Badass.  I know some little guys with no training, but lots of speed and uncanny eye-hand coordination that can absolutely kick ass.  I know some big guys that never have to fight because they're big guys. I don't think any one martial art is "better" than any other martial art - it's the fighter and how well he can fight that tell the tale.

Gun fighting is the superior martial art.

I disagree. He tried to use the traditional stance and Wing Chun moves in the beginning. It just didn't work. So he tried a boxing stance. He still lost.

There's an old story

During the time when the firearm truly took over as the primary weapon of War on the mainland, the last true spearman China, walked to a field where the monks were training their art.

They're the old man challenged the two best practitioners of the spear to a duel

He was nearly 40 years their senior, his technique while the same as theirs was sloppy, his moves sluggish, his response slow

But he beat the absolute crap out of them, the monks were baffled and demanded to know how.

He stated along the lines of
- your technique may be as smooth and graceful as a bird landing on water, you have learned all the moves, but you failed to know their meaning, I have killed 30 people on the battlefields of my life, you could not hurt a chicken, your technique is more art than it is martial -

I would say most Chinese martial arts have lost their lethality 200 + years ago

I’ve done a bit of tournament fighting. I’m no master though. I believe I could have done better than the grand master did. Win? Maybe not. A good showing? Probably.

That is what I was thinking as well. After the first few seconds it basically turned into a mess and the other guy knew how to handle that. He had a plan in the clinch, he had a plan at distance, he set the pace and basically controlled the whole fight.

I don't think it's a "Wing Chun sucks" thing so much as a situation where you need to be good enough to actually force the fight into the format you want. He clearly wasn't. Since in most organized fights the match is close enough to make that very difficult the edge goes to the person who can adapt and maintain awareness of that critical moment. So many fights come down to one or two key hits that the fighter then follows up on rather than overall technique.

He got knocked the fuck out but not surprised

Not entirely. WC has some good and useful technique in real world application. I'm not convinced that dude was a master of anything but looking cool in front of his mirror. I studied WC for a brief stint. Don't remember many of the terms and just had a superficial grasp of the style and a few techniques (the ones I thought meshed well with my jjj).

This is "running dog". The punches are more or less straight from your centerline in a running chain. They're hard to block against. And with good footwork, hard for your opponent to get off line. They're not meant to knockout, but more to overwhelm to allow bigger strikes to be employed.



Pak sao and lop sao (trapping) work well when employed properly. I've used them to get shots in especially at the very beginning of contact. But if you spend all your time drilling a wooden dummy or playing pat-a-cake with a "sparring" partner, and not using them against a resisting opponent, they won't be there for you (same as any other technique)

... you're wrong

Same

He take nap now.

That's a whole lot of writing for stating nothing.

UFC has shown time and time again what works and what doesn't, everything else is just a long winded post on GD

Meh.

He obviously had no fighting experience.

You can train all the systems you want. Without practical application your knowledge is mere theory.

He was in better shape than I expected though.

UFC has shown that mixing styles works. MMA.

Hence, his statement of "hand trapping techniques of WC work well when integrated into more effective styles" is spot on, contrary to your claim of lack of substance in his post.

I think it's simple, most martial arts all fall prey to the same insularity that lead the Japanese to use essentially the same sword from inception to gun powder, or that shows an NRA service rifle master might be horrible at 3 gun.

At a certain point refinement of a thing becomes self serving.  Not to say it doesn't have its own merits, but the more refined it becomes the less practical it is.

Specialization is for insects, etc.

This. He went from Wing Chun master to dukes up street boxing .5 seconds after that first hit lol

He probably thought he was doing well up to that point. With obvious physical advantage he had. His lack of offense shows me he had no plans to end the fight.

I'm thinking he believed he was going to dance around this more athletic kickboxer the whole fight. Then get a couple measured licks in.

He should have bum rushed him.

you mean the original MMA that was developed in the '60s?  by a guy who emphasized the need for stress testing techniques and getting rid of old shit that doesn't actually work?

that JKD?

What opponents?  Other actors?

http://m.fightland.vice.com/blog/wing-chun-and-mma-controlling-the-center

No can defense...

Traditional styles tend to work against traditional style or completely untrained people. Would I get in the ring with this guy in a Wing Chun tournament? No fucking way. Should you use a traditional style against a trained fighter? No fucking way.

Can any formal training help you in the street? Yes, to an extent. Its the whole "Its better than nothing"....

Most people don't understand the difference between a sport and a martial art.  Tae Kwon Do is a sport, you train for competition by NOT hitting as well as possible, you only hit to score.  Many 'martial arts' these days train for sport purposes, because that is what people want.

Fencing could be a martial art, for instance, if it wasn't for the fact that most people are not up for really getting hit with swords.  Thus there are a plethora of clubs where people specialize in making a light turn on using the idiosychracies of the equipment rather than training as though they were going to use a weapon to defend themselves and kill their opponent.

Pretty sure there are a lot more shots to the head in kick boxing...especially since football has taken steps to avoid that now. If you look into my neighbors eyes you can telll hes had his skull smashed plenty

Prior to the advent of modern medicine, you couldn't really have a lot of full contact sparring sessions.  The loss of even a few teeth was a life-changing injury, much less a torn ligament or tendon.  That's why Rome used slaves as gladiators.  So a lot of these older forms are outdated for that reason.

Martial Arts need more actual fighting practice

Martial arts, as a rule, teach and condition you to respond in a certain manner. The choreographed stuff
you see in the movies isn't really what martial arts is about.  Kind of like the Magpul videos, it trains you
to do something in a short period you might not think about by exaggerating the moves.

In a real gunfight, all of that goes out the window. Same with martial arts, as was demonstrated
in the video. In both instances, the guys who trained to fight would win. Almost always.

Anybody else think that UFC has morphed into more  kickboxing than MMA?

Martial arts have been dead in China since the 1949 communist takeover when martial arts were targeted as a threat to Mao.

29 years old? Master? I know a student of Leung Sheung who was the senior student of Yip Man during the Bruce Lee days and almost 50 years later he refers to himself as humble student not master.

Does anyone think this guy would tolerate martial arts surviving in China? Cultural Revolution ring a bell? Attached File

? There’s no similarity between the two