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Sketti is right on time with a fuck Ukraine thread right after a huge hit on Russia's black sea fleet yesterday! Hahaha someone even called it last night too! You are so predictable Sketti...lol
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Quoted: Maybe the person who posted the first article that relies on it should so we don't have to just take his word for it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Excellent. Please post the economist article so everyone can see what they said. Maybe the person who posted the first article that relies on it should so we don't have to just take his word for it. He’s not the one making the claim that his posted article is innacurate. Not a single person claiming such has posted the original article to validate their claim. Is it perhaps that none of them has actually read the Economist article themselves? |
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Quoted: What he actually said was implying that if Ukraine falls that there would be millions of stateless refugees with no future who might turn to crime. But you actually need to read the original interview to understand that. But we don't want that sketti is here to earn his roubles. View Quote To bad the ruble is worthless |
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When I see snippets of quotes from an interview, interspersed with editorial comments, I don’t take the conclusion made by the author of the added comments seriously. Especially when it’s a different language.
At the very least, critical thinking demands that it be taken with a huge grain of salt. Unfortunately, confirmation bias tricks certain people into accepting the claim, because they want it to be true. This is GD, after all. |
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Quoted: You are claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West? You have a direct quote? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classic GD. Well played, Sketti! You are claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West? You have a direct quote? "You are claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West" - I didn't claim anything. " You have a direct quote?" - See OP |
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If only there was a huge echo chamber thread in which members are protected and free to heap praise upon Volodymyrr without fear of opposition.
If such a thread existed maybe others would be free to discuss the reality of this conflict and its involvement of the west. If only. |
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Quoted: That would require integrity and not just a link to RT oops I mean Breitbart. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Breibart links the original article which you clearly didn't read. That would require integrity and not just a link to RT oops I mean Breitbart. Yet more slander... |
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I just read the entire article on The Economist. Zelensky said that the Ukrainian diaspora is happy about all the help they've gotten, but they could get angry if the aid is cut off. Excuse me for saying this, but: DUH.
Talk about a nothing-burger... ETA: I will admit that it was a stupid thing to say - assuming the translation captures what he meant to convey |
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Quoted: I just read the entire article on The Economist. Zelensky said that the Ukrainian diaspora is happy about all the help they've gotten, but they could get angry if the aid is cut off. DUH. Talk about a nothing-burger... View Quote Sweet. Please copy paste the article so we can all read it! |
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Quoted: If only there was a huge echo chamber thread in which members are protected and free to heap praise upon Volodymyrr without fear of opposition. If such a thread existed maybe others would be free to discuss the reality of this conflict and its involvement of the west. If only. View Quote I've suggested several times that there could be a similar thread created that would keep trolling by the "Ukebros" in check. Every single time, my offer was ignored and the people who post these kinds of articles start new threads several times a week. And you're surprised/complaining that the "Ukebros" come in and argue? Seems like your displeasure is misplaced. |
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Quoted: "You are claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West" - I didn't claim anything. " You have a direct quote?" - See OP View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classic GD. Well played, Sketti! You are claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West? You have a direct quote? "You are claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West" - I didn't claim anything. " You have a direct quote?" - See OP If you aren’t claiming that Zelenskyy is threatening the West (extortion involves threatening), why did you ask me about my thoughts on him threatening the West? |
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Quoted: Sweet. Please copy paste the article so we can all read it! View Quote Paste the link into this archive server: https://archive.today/ |
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Quoted: I just read the entire article on The Economist. Zelensky said that the Ukrainian diaspora is happy about all the help they've gotten, but they could get angry if the aid is cut off. Excuse me for saying this, but: DUH. Talk about a nothing-burger... ETA: I will admit that it was a stupid thing to say - assuming the translation captures what he meant to convey View Quote It's an unforced error to send your President who barely commands English into diplomatic and media engagements where he says things like his country war effort is contingent upon the correct side winning US elections. I have a hard time believing they are this stupid. |
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Quoted: I've suggested several times that there could be a similar thread created that would keep trolling by the "Ukebros" in check. Every single time, my offer was ignored and the people who post these kinds of articles start new threads several times a week. And you're surprised/complaining that the "Ukebros" come in and argue? Seems like your displeasure is misplaced. View Quote My displeasure with mods is finding out the report button is attached to nothing when scurrilous comments and personal threats are made. But considering what people were perma banned for in the past that now seems quant, there is a logical inference to be made. |
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Quoted: It's an unforced error to send your President who barely commands English into diplomatic and media engagements where he says things like his country war effort is contingent upon the correct side winning US elections. I have a hard time believing they are this stupid. View Quote Probably. He also caught a lot of flak for showing up to that EU (or whatever it was) summit in fatigues. It is what it is. |
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Quoted: I've suggested several times that there could be a similar thread created that would keep trolling by the "Ukebros" in check. Every single time, my offer was ignored and the people who post these kinds of articles start new threads several times a week. And you're surprised/complaining that the "Ukebros" come in and argue? Seems like your displeasure is misplaced. View Quote I know. It’s significantly more entertaining this way and I’m not actually displeased at all. As someone that’s not very invested in this, I actually enjoy reading both sides. I will say that based on my observations the “Ukebros” are more easily offended and have lost their sense of humor. |
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Quoted: It's an unforced error to send your President who barely commands English into diplomatic and media engagements where he says things like his country war effort is contingent upon the correct side winning US elections. I have a hard time believing they are this stupid. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I just read the entire article on The Economist. Zelensky said that the Ukrainian diaspora is happy about all the help they've gotten, but they could get angry if the aid is cut off. Excuse me for saying this, but: DUH. Talk about a nothing-burger... ETA: I will admit that it was a stupid thing to say - assuming the translation captures what he meant to convey It's an unforced error to send your President who barely commands English into diplomatic and media engagements where he says things like his country war effort is contingent upon the correct side winning US elections. I have a hard time believing they are this stupid. Are you speaking about Biden’s handlers? |
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Quoted: Lol, I find it amusing that the cult thinks I care about Russian military shit getting blown up. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, just a personal attack, nothing about Zelensky's extortion of the west? Which one are you? The LST or the diesel submarine? Lol, I find it amusing that the cult thinks I care about Russian military shit getting blown up. Its actually quite tiresome, but yeah, point taken... |
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Quoted: Lol, I find it amusing that the cult thinks I care about Russian military shit getting blown up. View Quote You reacted to a post about Russian military shit getting blown up by claiming you were personally attacked. I can only surmise you identify as an Improved Kilo class submarine. |
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Quoted: You have it backwards. And Ukrainians are extraordinarily well behaved. Travelling to Ukraine makes you embarrassed for American society. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Gee, you bring in thousands of people that are basically the red headed stepchildren of the Russians and expect they're going to act like westerners? You have it backwards. And Ukrainians are extraordinarily well behaved. Travelling to Ukraine makes you embarrassed for American society. That, I would totally not doubt... ...when viewed through either the hyphenated or political affiliation lense |
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Quoted: I know. It's significantly more entertaining this way and I'm not actually displeased at all. As someone that's not very invested in this, I actually enjoy reading both sides. I will say that based on my observations the "Ukebros" are more easily offended and have lost their sense of humor. View Quote I'd say the whole thing has been humor-free for quite some time. |
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That's crazy. We are supposed to believe millions of Ukrainians, who abandoned their country in time of war, are going to act out if Ukraine's funding is cut. I'm sure if those people cared so deeply about their former country they would've stayed to fight.
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Sweet. Please copy paste the article so we can all read it! Paste the link into this archive server: https://archive.today/ That's apretty cool trick, thatnks! So here's the entire article, so that nobody can claim I'm keeping anything out Volodymyr zelensky does not want to think about a long war, let alone talk about the possibility to Ukrainians, many of whom still dream of winning fast. But that is precisely what he is preparing for. “I have to be ready, my team has to be ready for the long war, and emotionally I am ready,” Ukraine’s president says in an interview with The Economist. Speaking on the margins of the yes conference, an international pow-wow in Kyiv, he is calm, composed and sombre. At the same setting a year ago, the mood was electric and euphoric; news of Ukrainian forces’ success in pushing Russia back from the Kharkiv region was pinging on every smartphone in the room. This year, the atmosphere is very different. Three months into its counter-offensive, Ukraine has made only modest progress along the all-important southern axis in the Zaporizhia region, where it is trying to sever Vladimir Putin’s “land bridge” from Russia to Crimea. The question of how long that will take, or whether it will succeed, weighs on the minds of Western leaders. They still talk the good talk, pledging that they will stand with Ukraine “as long as it takes”. But Mr Zelensky, a former television actor with an acute sense of his audience, has detected a change of mood among some of his partners. “I have this intuition, reading, hearing and seeing their eyes [when they say] ‘we’ll be always with you,’” he says, speaking in English (a language in which he is increasingly fluent). “But I see that he or she is not here, not with us.” He opens his hands in a gesture of frustration. Some partners might see Ukraine’s recent difficulties on the battlefield as a reason to force it into negotiations with Russia. But “this is a bad moment, since Putin sees the same.” image: the economist Having failed to overwhelm Ukraine quickly, Mr Putin seems determined to exhaust the country and to wear out its partners’ resolve to keep funding and supplying it with arms. He aims to make Ukraine a dysfunctional, depopulated state whose refugees cause problems in Europe. But Mr Zelensky says Russia itself is fragile. Mr Putin “does not understand that in the long war, he will lose. Because it does not matter that 60% or 70% [of Russians] support him. No, his economy will lose.” As Ukraine increases its strikes inside Russia, Russians will start asking awkward questions about their army’s inability to protect them, “because our drones will land”. The Russian president’s authority was weakened by the mutiny in June of Yevgeny Prighozhin, boss of the Wagner mercenary group, who was subsequently assassinated. It will be weakened further, Mr Zelensky thinks. At the same time, Ukraine’s president is keenly aware of the risks to his country if the West starts to withdraw its economic support. That would damage not just Ukraine’s economy, but its war effort, too. He puts it in stark terms. “If you are not with Ukraine, you are with Russia, and if you are not with Russia, you are with Ukraine. And if partners do not help us, it means they will help Russia to win. That is it.” With several of his Western allies (including America) holding elections next year, Mr Zelensky knows that sustaining support will be difficult, especially in the absence of significant progress at the front. Ukraine’s president has excelled at appealing to Western publics, often over the heads of their politicians. He still believes that the best way “to convince governments, [to make them] believe they are on the right side, is by pushing them via the media. People read, people discuss, people make up their minds and people push,” he says. It was public opinion that drove politicians to increase arms supplies to Ukraine in the early days of the war. Scaling down that help, he argues, may anger not just Ukrainians but Western voters. They will start asking what the whole effort was for. “People will not forgive [their leaders] if they lose Ukraine.” If Mr Putin hopes that a victory by Donald Trump in America’s presidential election in 2024 would deliver him victory, he is mistaken. Trump would “never” support Vladimir Putin. “That isn’t what strong Americans do.” He expects Joe Biden will stay the course if he is re-elected. (“Do they want Afghanistan, part two?”) And he hopes that the European Union will not only keep supplying aid, but will open negotiations over the accession process for Ukraine this year. (That move is widely expected to happen at a summit in December.) “It will support morale in Ukraine. It will give this energy to people.” Keeping morale high is crucial. This is why, Mr Zelensky says, even limited progress on the front line is essential. “Now we have movement. It’s important.” After heavy initial losses, and hastily adapted tactics, Ukrainian soldiers have finally pierced the first of Russia’s three main defensive lines in the Zaporizhia region. A big breakthrough can still come, Mr Zelensky insists: “If we push them from the south, they will run.” On the counter-offensive’s secondary front, near the eastern town of Bakhmut, Ukrainian forces are also slowly taking back territory. “During the first days of the full-scale war, we kept being pushed back. Each day. They took some cities, hundreds of villages,” he says. Now, Ukrainian forces are crawling forward. But troops face a Herculean task to turn advances along either axis into a strategic breakthrough. In answer to Western complaints about the offensive’s slowness, Mr Zelensky says it reflects the extreme level of danger. Winning back territory needs to be balanced with preserving as many lives as possible. Soldiers need to reduce the risks: to carry out reconnaissance, to use drones, to avoid direct clashes. Ukraine would have lost “thousands” had it followed advice to commit many more troops, he says. This is not the sort of war where “the leader of a country says the price doesn’t matter.” That is the difference between him and Vladimir Putin. “For him, life is nothing.” After months of building up expectations for the counter-offensive, Mr Zelensky is carefully adjusting his message to reality. Victory will not come “tomorrow or the day after tomorrow”, he says. But it is not some fantastical dream. Ukraine deserves to win, and the West should back it. The Russian army is losing “lots of people’‘ and redeploying its reserves to stop the Ukrainian advance, he says: “It means they lose.” Tapping loudly on the table, Mr Zelensky rejects outright the idea of compromise with Vladimir Putin. War will continue for “as long as Russia remains on Ukrainian territory”, he says. A negotiated deal would not be permanent. The Russian president has a habit of creating “frozen conflicts” on Russia’s borders (in Georgia, for example), not as ends in themselves but because his goal is to “restore the Soviet Union”. Those who choose to talk to the man in the Kremlin are “tricking themselves”, much like the Western leaders who signed an agreement with Adolf Hitler at Munich in 1938 only to watch him invade Czechoslovakia. “The mistake is not diplomacy. The mistake is diplomacy with Putin. He negotiates only with himself.” Curtailing aid to Ukraine will only prolong the war, Mr Zelensky argues. And it would create risks for the West in its own backyard. There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”. Meanwhile, a long war of attrition would mean a fork in the road for Ukraine. The country would lose even more people, both on the front lines and to emigration. It would require a “totally militarised economy”. The government would have to put that prospect to its citizens, Mr Zelensky says, without specifying how; a new social contract could not be the decision of one person. Almost 19 months into the war, the president says he is “morally” ready for the switch. But he will only broach the idea with his people if the weakness in the eyes of his Western backers becomes a “trend”. Has that moment come? No, not yet, he says. “Thank God.” Here is the section that seems to be in contention and I have bolded what I think is the salient point: "Curtailing aid to Ukraine will only prolong the war, Mr Zelensky argues. And it would create risks for the West in its own backyard. There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”. Could be a veiled threat, could be pointing out that refugees might misbehave/riot if they don't get their way--kinda sounds like a mob movie, LOL, "nice country you have here, be apity if a million refugees decided to riot". There are many instances of that in the West, specifically Europe, where refugees have done so when their host countries did not keep them happy. Any other reasonable interpretations of Zelensky's comments? |
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Quoted: If only there was a huge echo chamber thread in which members are protected and free to heap praise upon Volodymyrr without fear of opposition. If such a thread existed maybe others would be free to discuss the reality of this conflict and its involvement of the west. If only. View Quote Also, why are all these people that were banned from it making threads in GD and getting even more views? Don't they know they can't talk about Ukraine if it's not in the main thread? |
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Welp, Ukraine IS doing the work Europeans don't want to do. This is, working hard dying, at least partially on behalf of Europe.
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Quoted: That's apretty cool trick, thatnks! So here's the entire article, so that nobody can claim I'm keeping anything out Here is the section that seems to be in contention and I have bolded what I think is the salient point: "Curtailing aid to Ukraine will only prolong the war, Mr Zelensky argues. And it would create risks for the West in its own backyard. There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”. Could be a veiled threat, could be pointing out that refugees might misbehave/riot if they don't get their way--kinda sounds like a mob movie, LOL, "nice country you have here, be apity if a million refugees decided to riot". There are many instances of that in the West, specifically Europe, where refugees have done so when their host countries did not keep them happy. Any other reasonable interpretations of Zelensky's comments? View Quote I'll rate it as ranking somewhere between "kind of a shit/tone deaf thing to say" and "who cares?" Not the greatest tone. But nothing anyone is going to care about unless they already had a hobby of obsessing over the guy. |
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It sounds like Europe better pony up, and we better take our ball and go home.
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Quoted: Oh no! Slander and personal attacks!! lol View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You didn't have to to. The headline and its implication are clear. Don't play coy. Oh no! Slander and personal attacks!! lol Quoting all would help anyone to better understand your accusation... |
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Quoted: I'll rate it as ranking somewhere between "kind of a shit/tone deaf thing to say" and "who cares?" Not the greatest tone. But nothing anyone is going to care about unless they already had a hobby of obsessing over the guy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That's apretty cool trick, thatnks! So here's the entire article, so that nobody can claim I'm keeping anything out Here is the section that seems to be in contention and I have bolded what I think is the salient point: "Curtailing aid to Ukraine will only prolong the war, Mr Zelensky argues. And it would create risks for the West in its own backyard. There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”. Could be a veiled threat, could be pointing out that refugees might misbehave/riot if they don't get their way--kinda sounds like a mob movie, LOL, "nice country you have here, be apity if a million refugees decided to riot". There are many instances of that in the West, specifically Europe, where refugees have done so when their host countries did not keep them happy. Any other reasonable interpretations of Zelensky's comments? I'll rate it as ranking somewhere between "kind of a shit/tone deaf thing to say" and "who cares?" Not the greatest tone. But nothing anyone is going to care about unless they already had a hobby of obsessing over the guy. Also, read the actual quotes from Zelenskyy, and look at the words added between the quotes by the author. |
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