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Posted: 9/26/2023 5:42:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lazy people rather stay home and suck government teat. ENTIRE generations of black and latinos dont work. They rather play video games, watch tv, defaud Social securtiy benefits, food stamps, they live w baby mama and stay out all night selling drugs. Whites do this also, but at smaller percentages. However, since white pop. is higher the overall white sucking teat is higher. STOP all gov handouts. Make people work or starve There are an abundance of white sucking the toy as well. Multigenerational. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 5:44:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The labor participation rate has dropped because some states are paying people more than $100,000 a year to not work and plenty pay more than $80,000. You want to go look for a job and work or just sit at home and make $40-$50 an hour? Source. Fuck me, I’m working for 40k a year with disability, I haven’t seen any programs like this, where would they be? For research purposes clearly, I don’t know of any programs like this simply paying to avoid work unless this is a claim about general welfare. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 5:44:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @fdawg People are willfully ‘tarded these days, and “Oh, that’s gotta be FAKE!” Seems to be the default position for so many of you. It’s shockingly low, and would be hard to believe, except I Lived it. I do our taxes. I saw the pay deposits. Why else would I have wasted my time typing it all out? It’s fucking Horrible, that’s the entire point of this thread. Take note of the N1Rampage post which I quoted a few posts before this one. - a small data point, which answers OP’s question: my wife now earns a day’s salary, just tutoring for 2 hours. Why wouldn’t everyone do this? You could work one or two days, and take the rest of the week off. In addition, most people would collect various forms of welfare, so their income would essentially double. (Obviously, we don’t do this. I make far to much, and we both have old fashioned ideas of “Integrity” and “pride” where we believe in self sufficiency and marriage.) I can’t really blame the people who Go Galt. It’s what I would do, if I was trapped in one of those awful careers. The national average for K-12 teachers is $64,524, and almost all have a pension system. So, you can see why I thought that pitiful salary, and no pension had to be an error. That’s disgusting. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 5:45:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The national average for K-12 teachers is $64,524, and almost all have a pension system. So, you can see why I thought that pitiful salary, and no pension had to be an error. That's disgusting. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 6:06:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The national average for K-12 teachers is $64,524, and almost all have a pension system. So, you can see why I thought that pitiful salary, and no pension had to be an error. That’s disgusting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @fdawg People are willfully ‘tarded these days, and “Oh, that’s gotta be FAKE!” Seems to be the default position for so many of you. It’s shockingly low, and would be hard to believe, except I Lived it. I do our taxes. I saw the pay deposits. Why else would I have wasted my time typing it all out? It’s fucking Horrible, that’s the entire point of this thread. Take note of the N1Rampage post which I quoted a few posts before this one. - a small data point, which answers OP’s question: my wife now earns a day’s salary, just tutoring for 2 hours. Why wouldn’t everyone do this? You could work one or two days, and take the rest of the week off. In addition, most people would collect various forms of welfare, so their income would essentially double. (Obviously, we don’t do this. I make far to much, and we both have old fashioned ideas of “Integrity” and “pride” where we believe in self sufficiency and marriage.) I can’t really blame the people who Go Galt. It’s what I would do, if I was trapped in one of those awful careers. The national average for K-12 teachers is $64,524, and almost all have a pension system. So, you can see why I thought that pitiful salary, and no pension had to be an error. That’s disgusting. Generally speaking, the low tax States where it’s worthwhile to live, have low teacher pay. Maybe WA is the odd exception, being as it’s a hybrid State, with liberal policies, but no income tax. Pay also varies from county to county. For example CO has some high, but rural is low. Also, the $64,000 average is exceedingly low, when we consider that populated States like Cali, NJ, PA, NY have high salaries probably approaching $100k or more. I remember my history teacher bragging that he was making $60K in NJ. (In 1987! when money was worth 3 times more). Problem is, those Pension funds are Billions in the hole. It’s imprudent to bet your whole future on a bailout. The standard conservative rule of thumb, used to be, “Buy a house no more than 3X your annual salary”. I always stuck to this, and it’s served me well. My history teacher could have bought a house for $180,000 in 1987. Today? More like 5 times, or 6 times salary. To motivate people to do a job that takes education, self discipline, professionalism and talent, there has to be some sense that there’s a point to it all. Hand-to-mouth existence isn’t fun, and people who Can avoid it, Will. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 6:37:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a girl that drives a forklift that will make $54,000 this year. She works 7a-4p. And she can walk away at 4pm without any further responsibility outside of returning at 7am the next day… |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 7:09:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://static.politifact.com/politifact/photos/Appalachian_map.jpg Whites in Appalachia make being multi-generational welfare leeches doped up on heroin, meth, or oxy an olympic sport to where they get the gold medal. They can't really get themselves out of poverty either. They don't have the work experience, they don't have the education, and they don't have the clean backgrounds. Nor do they have the financial means to actually pick-up and move to better economic opportunities. Nor do they even have the property assets that they can liquidate to finance a move. The same is happening in Black and Hispanic communities. multi-generational poverty has a stranglehold on future generations because they are born into an environment that automatically hobbles them from the start. Couple that with no major investment in areas of the US and jobs offering shit wages with higher and higher costs of living. Being on the public dole and shooting up smack to be stoned along with drinking rot-gut beer is what many of them do. Because they can't do anything else. The skills you need to survive poverty are different from the ones that lift you out of it. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 7:12:40 PM EDT
[#8]
They are dead.
All of them were coincidentally killed by global warming. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:24:54 PM EDT
[#9]
When I started at my job in 1996 as an engineer making 40k, retirees got healthcare benefits. That got phased out, but we still had traditional pensions, until they stopped offering them to new hires, and then froze them in 2014. We once paid above market to attract A & B players. Now we pay low market. Variable pay has become less accessible. There is no form of paid overtime anymore for exempt employees. Profit sharing used to be available at the P3/M3 level, now it’s not available until the P5/M5 level. Options used to be available at lower levels, but now start at the P7/M7 level. Merit increases have been far below inflation. Years with furloughs, and “deferred” merits. Record profits along the way. All this at the 57th largest company in the US. I don’t blame people for checking out.
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:33:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish someone from Portland, Seattle, or maybe LA would chime in. I've spent a fair bit of time in Portland, and the cost of living is insane. My impression is that many houses are occupied by groups of people because no one can afford it by themselves. I have well-off family there who own a tiny house, on an insignificant lot, that isn't "prime real estate," that cost almost a million dollars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Shit pay is a major problem in FL public sector and private sector. Housing is ungodly affordable. Heck, I remember when State Troopers made less than $35k and couldn't afford rent in South Florida and this was long before the 2008 crash. The solution was FHP had a single wide on school lots and Troopers would live there. Why? It was a deterrent to thieves to burglarize the school. When a bartender or waiter in South Beach has to live all the way out in Hialeah, drive all the way to the beach, and pay all those tolls, pay for parking, pay for gas, etc... it isn't economical. Amazes me how so many people will stay in a region where that goes on, when they could pull up roots, go do the same job somewhere else, and make actual decent wages. Comfort in your surroundings goes a long way I guess. I wish someone from Portland, Seattle, or maybe LA would chime in. I've spent a fair bit of time in Portland, and the cost of living is insane. My impression is that many houses are occupied by groups of people because no one can afford it by themselves. I have well-off family there who own a tiny house, on an insignificant lot, that isn't "prime real estate," that cost almost a million dollars. They are chiming in… what exactly do you want to know? The trick is to not live in the actual cities themselves, but in the suburbs or smaller towns nearby. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:44:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It absolutely amazes me how many geniuses think moving to an area with twice the cost of living for half again the pay and zero friends or family network is a good idea. Using the numbers he gave, more like 3X the pay, with 50% increased COL, which is mostly housing. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:28:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything I said was right on. You sound like you must live in Xanadu, because no one else here can confirm anything close about pay. You're a unicorn I guess. I don't know what state or county you live in, but you're by far in the minority, and you completely miss my point. Nobody is willfully changing careers to start off at 50k/year. Like I said, you either start LE or teaching as a career because later it is prohibitive. LEO pay (I guess it could be wrong, but it looks legit) Also, again, in regards to teaching, I don't know what state, county, or planet you're on, but my wife is a teacher too. She's got her Juris Doctorate, 10+ years of teaching experience, a bunch of certifications and when we moved almost every state wanted either a Masters specifically in teaching, or that she spend 1-2 years getting one while also teaching. It's complete bullshit, and that coupled with pay, terrible kids, and terrible parents is why no one wants to be a teacher. Too much bullshit for not enough payout. Yeah I totally just made all that up! Wasn’t involved in training new hires, FTEP, supervising, scheduling, filling all the vacant shifts, etc. I have zero clue about how old people were who came thru training at my agency or when I was teaching them at the academy! They must have all just looked old! Get a clue. If you want an LE job today, are not a complete weirdo, and have a clean background, you can be making 100k fairly easily. Give it a few years, more OT, and be where my coworkers are now- 150-200k+. You might not like the political situation, but the pay is what we are discussing here. We hired a ton of military retirees, they usually are about 40 years old when they start out, Great double dipping opportunity. I saw people over 50 years old going thru the academy. Lots and lots of mid 30’s and mid 40’s. Not being in your early 20’s is no reason at all to not go into LE. Hell, it was my second career choice, a major pivot, but I was in my 20’s when I decided to change career fields. Right now, starting pay at a nearby outlying city (not woke at all) is 80k, lateral is 96k, and that is before any OT. Nice newer house in that same town is about 400k. I would consider that place a good place to live, a decent place to work, but not the place for the highest pay. And their teacher pay for your wife would probably be around 100k. It is by no means unicorn pay, it is common pay on the west coast in areas nearby or in larger cities. Trick is to not live in those actual cities, but to take advantage of the higher pay in the area. Not sure why it is so hard to believe, the pay numbers are publicly available. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:33:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The decades of witnessing corporate America and Government screwing the working class over softened us up, but 2020 was the final blow. COVID and the "Summer of Love" broke people. Morale and trust in the establishment is at an all time low. Nobody wants to work for the Devil, and those that do are 100% in it for themselves. Zero loyalty because the working class knows that the establishment will fuck you over the instant it is politically or monetarily expedient to do so. Many would rather stay in their parent's basement or work just enough to be able to afford shelter, food, recreational drugs, and a device that allows them to go online and get the dopamine hits they need to keep from roping themselves. The train is already off the tracks and careening into a ravine, but it will take a while before it finally crashes into the dirt. Hopefully something better springs up from the ashes of the bullshit clown world we are currently in. Thats some sig-line material there buddy. 10/10 rant |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:34:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I totally just made all that up! Wasn’t involved in training new hires, FTEP, supervising, scheduling, filling all the vacant shifts, etc. I have zero clue about how old people were who came thru training at my agency or when I was teaching them at the academy! They must have all just looked old! Get a clue. If you want an LE job today, are not a complete weirdo, and have a clean background, you can be making 100k fairly easily. Give it a few years, more OT, and be where my coworkers are now- 150-200k+. You might not like the political situation, but the pay is what we are discussing here. We hired a ton of military retirees, they usually are about 40 years old when they start out, Great double dipping opportunity. I saw people over 50 years old going thru the academy. Lots and lots of mid 30’s and mid 40’s. Not being in your early 20’s is no reason at all to not go into LE. Hell, it was my second career choice, a major pivot, but I was in my 20’s when I decided to change career fields. Right now, starting pay at a nearby outlying city (not woke at all) is 80k, lateral is 96k, and that is before any OT. Nice newer house in that same town is about 400k. I would consider that place a good place to live, a decent place to work, but not the place for the highest pay. And their teacher pay for your wife would probably be around 100k. It is by no means unicorn pay, it is common pay on the west coast in areas nearby or in larger cities. Trick is to not live in those actual cities, but to take advantage of the higher pay in the area. Not sure why it is so hard to believe, the pay numbers are publicly available. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Everything I said was right on. You sound like you must live in Xanadu, because no one else here can confirm anything close about pay. You're a unicorn I guess. I don't know what state or county you live in, but you're by far in the minority, and you completely miss my point. Nobody is willfully changing careers to start off at 50k/year. Like I said, you either start LE or teaching as a career because later it is prohibitive. LEO pay (I guess it could be wrong, but it looks legit) Also, again, in regards to teaching, I don't know what state, county, or planet you're on, but my wife is a teacher too. She's got her Juris Doctorate, 10+ years of teaching experience, a bunch of certifications and when we moved almost every state wanted either a Masters specifically in teaching, or that she spend 1-2 years getting one while also teaching. It's complete bullshit, and that coupled with pay, terrible kids, and terrible parents is why no one wants to be a teacher. Too much bullshit for not enough payout. Yeah I totally just made all that up! Wasn’t involved in training new hires, FTEP, supervising, scheduling, filling all the vacant shifts, etc. I have zero clue about how old people were who came thru training at my agency or when I was teaching them at the academy! They must have all just looked old! Get a clue. If you want an LE job today, are not a complete weirdo, and have a clean background, you can be making 100k fairly easily. Give it a few years, more OT, and be where my coworkers are now- 150-200k+. You might not like the political situation, but the pay is what we are discussing here. We hired a ton of military retirees, they usually are about 40 years old when they start out, Great double dipping opportunity. I saw people over 50 years old going thru the academy. Lots and lots of mid 30’s and mid 40’s. Not being in your early 20’s is no reason at all to not go into LE. Hell, it was my second career choice, a major pivot, but I was in my 20’s when I decided to change career fields. Right now, starting pay at a nearby outlying city (not woke at all) is 80k, lateral is 96k, and that is before any OT. Nice newer house in that same town is about 400k. I would consider that place a good place to live, a decent place to work, but not the place for the highest pay. And their teacher pay for your wife would probably be around 100k. It is by no means unicorn pay, it is common pay on the west coast in areas nearby or in larger cities. Trick is to not live in those actual cities, but to take advantage of the higher pay in the area. Not sure why it is so hard to believe, the pay numbers are publicly available. And yet you give zero indication where this might be. 200k. For a patrol LEO? Really? |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:37:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2020 was also the time many long-time established employees that could swing it bailed, at least in my industry. The people that replace them only last a few months before they bail too. Tons of knowledge and experience has been lost in such a short time. Our department has been the exception to this phenomenon but everything and everyone around us is a complete shitshow. You just need to Embrace The Suck and learn to live in Clown World dude. Every day is a fucking Dumpster Fire for me dealing with incompetent people and noobs who don't know anything trying to pick up the pieces from the boomers. Seriously, it's not hard to excel in Idiocracy. I've never made more money than now. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:37:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a holdover of gatekeepers by boomers @CSeaBass. Starting in the late 80s and early 90s. Boomers in management positions started changing the requirements for jobs, all while insulating themselves and exempting themselves via grandfathering their positions. It was done to make it harder for younger workers to apply for their positions. It has since carried over to just about everything now. I've seen cases where job postings require an exorbitant amount of experience and degrees/certs and pay shit. It turns people away, and allows companies to hire H1Bs at a cheaper price than American labor. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hate to break it to ya. Getting fat is cheap. You buy boxes of processed shit food for 1.50 a box. To make the equivalent from. Fresh food, it's 15.00. Do a lap around the perimeter of your local chain grocer. Those are the relatively healthy food. Now look at the prices down the isles. Make s3nse now? I am a fat, who has recently made the switch to eating healthy and losing weight. I spend 2 to 2 5 times more on food a month now. That said, we can't get people to work for 25 bucks an hour. Part of it is the requirements have gone up for menial work. Around here, they want a college degree to be a secretary. Employers have an unreasonable expectation of new hires in some fields. I've seen cases where job postings require an exorbitant amount of experience and degrees/certs and pay shit. It turns people away, and allows companies to hire H1Bs at a cheaper price than American labor. This phenomena of low pay for us, then getting H1Bs to take the jobs is disgusting. Shame on people responsible for this. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:38:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what Oregon State Police (OSP) are offering for a new state cop: (PERS) is the state Public Employee Retirement System. (Pension) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/trooper_pay_JPG-2967282.JPG so a miniumum of $66252/yr starting wage. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/trooper_benifits_JPG-2967284.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/76/trooper_PERS_JPG-2967285.JPG They also get incentive pay, and extra pay depending on what area of the state they are assigned to such as PDX or Salem. And those base numbers are likely old. And OSP were never one of the better paying agencies in OR to begin with. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:39:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The decades of witnessing corporate America and Government screwing the working class over softened us up, but 2020 was the final blow. COVID and the "Summer of Love" broke people. Morale and trust in the establishment is at an all time low. Nobody wants to work for the Devil, and those that do are 100% in it for themselves. Zero loyalty because the working class knows that the establishment will fuck you over the instant it is politically or monetarily expedient to do so. Many would rather stay in their parent's basement or work just enough to be able to afford shelter, food, recreational drugs, and a device that allows them to go online and get the dopamine hits they need to keep from roping themselves. The train is already off the tracks and careening into a ravine, but it will take a while before it finally crashes into the dirt. Hopefully something better springs up from the ashes of the bullshit clown world we are currently in. @AngryNagant Excellent post. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:40:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Listening last night to a police officer in a large community and she said they are short staffed. Are people sitting home? Do we have more jobs post covid and not enough workers? Help me understand. Why the HELL would anyone want to be a cop these days? <=retired cop, 20 years. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:51:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's something definitely up with this phenomenon. I have 20 years experience in my field. I've been working independently for 4 years, started that just before the COVID crap started (great timing, /s). It's been a rollercoaster and I have been applying to corporate jobs for the past 6 months. Few call backs and the postings just stay up for months?!? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Listening last night to a police officer in a large community and she said they are short staffed. Are people sitting home? Do we have more jobs post covid and not enough workers? Help me understand. A lot of places here are crying about wanting help, but either pay shit wages or are just collecting applications and doing nothing with them. I've noticed this trend for a while now job hunting on LinkedIn. I see job posts that have been posted for 2-4 weeks and have 400-500 applicants, yet they stay up for another 2-4 weeks. I applied for a job that was posted 3-weeks ago. The role is for the exact same role I have today, with our number one competitor. I have displaced many of their customers and actively sell against them every single day. I meet every single requirement on the job listing, yet I can't get a call back from anyone there. I believe companies are gaining something by having X number of job postings, and have no intention of filling them. I just don't know what it is. There's something definitely up with this phenomenon. I have 20 years experience in my field. I've been working independently for 4 years, started that just before the COVID crap started (great timing, /s). It's been a rollercoaster and I have been applying to corporate jobs for the past 6 months. Few call backs and the postings just stay up for months?!? Directly applying for jobs online is for Suckers. You need an in or a good recruiter these days. Good luck filling out all those database forms that get circle filed because the HR filter algorithm doesn't like the keywords you entered. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:52:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Directly applying for jobs online is for Suckers. You need an in or a good recruiter these days. Good luck filling out all those database forms that get circle filed because the HR filter algorithm doesn't like the keywords you entered. Generally, yes, but it still works sometimes if you've got the resume. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:55:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it. I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's something definitely up with this phenomenon. I have 20 years experience in my field. I've been working independently for 4 years, started that just before the COVID crap started (great timing, /s). It's been a rollercoaster and I have been applying to corporate jobs for the past 6 months. Few call backs and the postings just stay up for months?!? More and more of civilization seems to be becoming a cargo cult. People going through the motions, not understanding how anything works and hoping that more "cargo" will fall from the sky and everything will somehow work out. I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it. I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them. Get a bit more creative with thinking on how HR departments are run. By having a perpetual stream of open positions going, some of the HR tards are justifying their positions. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 9:57:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is incredibly tragic but hilarious. People don't understand how terrible the career has become. The ironic part, is that the elite private schools actually manage to pay Less, because there's always a surplus of people who prefer a "better" work environment. (It's still a horrible environment, but slightly less terrible) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: State of Florida accordioned 15 year veteran teacher pay all the way down to 0-year newbies last year. My district has 500 openings, offering the baseline $47,500, and there are ZERO applicants. Why the fuck you would suppress pay when you're at an all time high vacancy problem is beyond retarded and DeSantis won't fix it. I don't know of a school with less than 50% turnover rate year-to-year the last four years. I don't even bother learning my co-workers' names. Remember when DeSantis wanted veterans in the classroom? The first year, all 6 statewide quit. Last year, 38 of 38 statewide quit. This year, looks like none of the 65 are staying either. This is incredibly tragic but hilarious. People don't understand how terrible the career has become. The ironic part, is that the elite private schools actually manage to pay Less, because there's always a surplus of people who prefer a "better" work environment. (It's still a horrible environment, but slightly less terrible) |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:02:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As an example for my millennial friends: 1- Is a machinist and works full-time and has a Masters in Library Sciences lol 1- is a CNC fabricator/designer and is full-time, although he primary designed and built set components for hollywood before the strike 1- went into business for himself using Amazon and Ebay as the medium, he's going out of business and shifting into a different market Me- I'm getting into YouTube content creation and currently sucking at it, but getting better 1- still active duty and getting ready for E-8 looks I was a warehouse manager making $17/hour before being laid-off, but I don't have a college degree. The best offer I've received for normal work is a full-time store assistant manager for $14.50/hour. Not even worth my time at that pay. excuse me where the fuck do you live exactly. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:03:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet you give zero indication where this might be. 200k. For a patrol LEO? Really? West coast. Already mentioned at the front end of end of this thread. Absolutely for a Sgt, assuming you work OT. And doable for a deputy/officer if you really try. 24% of my pay was incentives above and beyond the listed top step on the scale. Not making it up, the folks still working tell me how the pay rates have sky rocketed since I retired, and much more double time available as well. My highest year was just shy of 200k, but I have been retired a few years now. I made around 100k as a deputy- in 2007. And patrol is absolutely where you make the most money anyhow, it is where the most OT is. Now everyone seems to bail for MT, ID, TX, or FL when they retire, but who can really blame them? Why put up with the politics when you are not being paid to do so anymore? But this thread is about pay, not politics. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:15:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the past, I was looking at employment for the LE agencies in DC since their pay is fantastic. But when I looked at the cost of living, I said screw that. Sure, I could've made $100k easily pre-Trump (that's when I was looking) but $100k even back then in the DC metro area was nothing. I totally understand. I spent four years in DC. Mid to late 90s. My home is now proportionally three times what it was for me then. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:19:08 PM EDT
[#27]
I can only speak to LE in the southeast, but I can tell you it’s a miserable state of affairs all over down here. My state (Georgia) has seen about a 10% decline in the numbers in the LE workforce in the last couple of years.
My agency is 140 sworn officers when fully-staffed, but we haven’t been fully-staffed in at least half a decade… we’re averaging about 20 open positions most of that time. Since January 2021, over 80 officers have left the PD and all the replacements have been non-sworn (read: NO experience) folks who have to be sent to the academy, so from the date they start the job it’s a solid 10-12 months before they can be expected to handle even the most basic of calls on their own. Add to all of it the horrible pay rates (I make $66k after twenty-two years with the agency) and the compression issue which has come about as a result of raising starting pay rates but not scaling senior officers’ pay proportionally (an 8-year officer now makes 96% of what I make) and it’s a recipe for disaster. And I don’t work for a sleepy, podunk agency… we’re a suburb of Atlanta and close enough to get all the violence and shenanigans that go with it. I only stay because I’m 6 years from retirement. My pension is nothing to write home about, but if I leave now I get basically nothing AND I’d have to wait years extra to get what little there would be after penalties. Also, our dental and medical plans SUCK for those who like to make that argument. I tell everyone who asks me about LE to run far and fast. I don’t know what the future of the job will be, but I am NOT impressed by the job candidates walking through our doors… they are BAD. I suspect an enormous crash and correction of the profession is coming if not nationwide, at least in some regions. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:24:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the name - ramairthree - either you are a young guy who likes old Pontiacs or you are a Boomer too. The Boomers had the draft, Vietnam, limited information (no internet) and expensive communication. In many ways there are way more opportunities for people today. The society has decayed but that is another topic. Sure prices were lower but so were wages. I was too young for Vietnam but entered the working world during the high interest rate stagflation period of the early 1980's. Not an easy time to find a good job. There are slackers in every generation. I was born in the 60s but am Gen X. Sure, I’m closer to 60 than to 50. But…. I know what vehicles cost, rent was, etc. in the early 60s. And what costs were for people coming of age in the 80s/90s. And what they are for young adults now. Proportionally- Young adults are getting their shit pushed in now. I crushed shit like a boss. Passed a SOF pipeline. Got a STEM degree. Got a legit hard doctorate. Had a military career with some selections that were very above the norm. Took a civilian job that made me a one percenter and by both objective data and subjective reputation was a superstar. But… My first apartment for someone now in my shoes then, as well as my starter home and my first “nice” home, and my current, well, estate- Are not reachable in the same stages for a younger version of me. And there is something very wrong about that. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:24:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every time this comes up for discussion few ever call out the real reason this is. There are simply not enough people to support the level of services we have now to sustain the population at today's level. We will see a inverse affect of this once the boomers begin to decline faster... we are just around the half way point now so have a number of years to go. Since birth rates are very low; low experience jobs are few and far taken as simply not enough young people to fill them. In professional levels you have the opposite affect; not anywhere near the amount of skilled labor to fill all of them boomers are exiting and a price war is happening for a select group. I am in this group and see it; it will continue to get worse unless brand new labor comes in to fill the gap and a retraction of services most of us are accustomed too. yep. i see this. im in commercial HVAC. the job is so ludicrously varied and complicated that i think about my demographic. who the fuck is going to learn how to Braze, solder, wire, diagnose high voltage, low voltage, learn air flow, air pressure, refrigerant pressures. water to air (WSHP's), air to air, water to water chillers, air to water chillers, VFD diagnosis, pump alignment, furnace diagnosis, boiler diagnosis, etc. who the fuck is capable, motivated and DOESNT have better prospects for employment? journeyman for us basically make 98k if you count benefits including whole family no premium healthcare. Thats before OT. there as much OT as you could want honestly. We are beyond busy. weve all given up on "catching up", we just pick which jobs we think we can get done. this is an industry wide issue. the economy is growing faster than the population. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 10:31:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was Hispanics who gave DeSantis his margin of victory. In fact, DeSantis won majority Hispanic counties, counties that haven't gone Republican in over a decade or more. Counties that even Trump couldn't win. I haven’t checked demographics lately. But the Cuban wave of immigration was basically the most intelligent, educated wave of immigration we ever had. Hispanic can mean productive citizen. It can also mean unintelligent, illiterate in their native language exploited cheap labor by the right/subsidized net negative but the right cote by the left. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 11:08:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I totally just made all that up! Wasn't involved in training new hires, FTEP, supervising, scheduling, filling all the vacant shifts, etc. I have zero clue about how old people were who came thru training at my agency or when I was teaching them at the academy! They must have all just looked old! Get a clue. If you want an LE job today, are not a complete weirdo, and have a clean background, you can be making 100k fairly easily. Give it a few years, more OT, and be where my coworkers are now- 150-200k+. You might not like the political situation, but the pay is what we are discussing here. We hired a ton of military retirees, they usually are about 40 years old when they start out, Great double dipping opportunity. I saw people over 50 years old going thru the academy. Lots and lots of mid 30's and mid 40's. Not being in your early 20's is no reason at all to not go into LE. Hell, it was my second career choice, a major pivot, but I was in my 20's when I decided to change career fields. Right now, starting pay at a nearby outlying city (not woke at all) is 80k, lateral is 96k, and that is before any OT. Nice newer house in that same town is about 400k. I would consider that place a good place to live, a decent place to work, but not the place for the highest pay. And their teacher pay for your wife would probably be around 100k. It is by no means unicorn pay, it is common pay on the west coast in areas nearby or in larger cities. Trick is to not live in those actual cities, but to take advantage of the higher pay in the area. Not sure why it is so hard to believe, the pay numbers are publicly available. Guess what, that alone tells me what cops need to know. Smile and wave policing. You probably work in Washington State and are on the razor's edge of getting thrown under the bus for doing your job correctly. Use force, get into a shooting, pull over thr "wrong" suspect, etc... and your ass is being persecuted like Ofc. Tou Thao in Minnesota due to George Floyd. Hell, Tou Thao didn't even do anything and he's serving a five year sentence. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 11:09:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As someone once pointed out to me, rather aptly: The skills you need to survive poverty are different from the ones that lift you out of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://static.politifact.com/politifact/photos/Appalachian_map.jpg Whites in Appalachia make being multi-generational welfare leeches doped up on heroin, meth, or oxy an olympic sport to where they get the gold medal. They can't really get themselves out of poverty either. They don't have the work experience, they don't have the education, and they don't have the clean backgrounds. Nor do they have the financial means to actually pick-up and move to better economic opportunities. Nor do they even have the property assets that they can liquidate to finance a move. The same is happening in Black and Hispanic communities. multi-generational poverty has a stranglehold on future generations because they are born into an environment that automatically hobbles them from the start. Couple that with no major investment in areas of the US and jobs offering shit wages with higher and higher costs of living. Being on the public dole and shooting up smack to be stoned along with drinking rot-gut beer is what many of them do. Because they can't do anything else. The skills you need to survive poverty are different from the ones that lift you out of it. Too fucking bad. Guaranteed almost all would figure something out if they had to. Those that truly can't should receive our help. But not the lazy. I'm lazy too but somehow have made a good living. I'm very blessed I will admit. I was a cable guy for five years after high school. Everyone in section 8 housing with the entire family sitting at home at 11am on a Wednesday had a nicer TV than me, nice PlayStation 2's when all I had was a genesis and an old computer. Funny how they could all afford hbo and Cinemax. If I didn't get it for free I would've had just the basic 12 channels. Like I did for years before Netflix and some time did without. Those lazy slobs were also by far the most demanding and rude customers. That time cured me of feeling bad for them. Oh and they were all fat as fuck. Clearly not hungry. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 11:09:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The labor participation rate has dropped because some states are paying people more than $100,000 a year to not work and plenty pay more than $80,000. You want to go look for a job and work or just sit at home and make $40-$50 an hour? Source. NY didn't even make the list I can't believe it |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 11:13:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can only speak to LE in the southeast, but I can tell you it's a miserable state of affairs all over down here. My state (Georgia) has seen about a 10% decline in the numbers in the LE workforce in the last couple of years. My agency is 140 sworn officers when fully-staffed, but we haven't been fully-staffed in at least half a decade we're averaging about 20 open positions most of that time. Since January 2021, over 80 officers have left the PD and all the replacements have been non-sworn (read: NO experience) folks who have to be sent to the academy, so from the date they start the job it's a solid 10-12 months before they can be expected to handle even the most basic of calls on their own. Add to all of it the horrible pay rates (I make $66k after twenty-two years with the agency) and the compression issue which has come about as a result of raising starting pay rates but not scaling senior officers' pay proportionally (an 8-year officer now makes 96% of what I make) and it's a recipe for disaster. And I don't work for a sleepy, podunk agency we're a suburb of Atlanta and close enough to get all the violence and shenanigans that go with it. I only stay because I'm 6 years from retirement. My pension is nothing to write home about, but if I leave now I get basically nothing AND I'd have to wait years extra to get what little there would be after penalties. Also, our dental and medical plans SUCK for those who like to make that argument. I tell everyone who asks me about LE to run far and fast. I don't know what the future of the job will be, but I am NOT impressed by the job candidates walking through our doors they are BAD. I suspect an enormous crash and correction of the profession is coming if not nationwide, at least in some regions. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:50:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a prime example of gatekeeping. Your employer wants skilled labor but offers shit wages, yet there is an ample pool of young labor willing to work/learn at shit wages. But turns them away because they aren't skilled. Prior to the Boomers really getting into power and playing gatekeepers. It used to be that you can hire on and learn. On the job training was a thing. That's how Boomers got their jobs. But they decided to change it up and say fuck it. What he said. I had a boomer boss that taught me how to fix aircraft radios. Turns out he was one of the only ones willing to do it outside the military. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:08:29 AM EDT
[#36]
deleted
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Posted: 9/27/2023 5:51:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet you give zero indication where this might be. 200k. For a patrol LEO? Really? Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet you give zero indication where this might be. 200k. For a patrol LEO? Really? Doable with a lot of OT in some areas. This is from an article from 10 years ago on Long Island. In Nassau County Gary Renick tops the list as the highest paid cop in the state at $306,299. A significant portion of that salary comes from overtime from court appearances stemming from his 118 DWI arrests. This is from last month, also on Long Island. The employee taking home the most overtime pay in both counties in 2022 was Officer Gardy Wool, a 17-year veteran of the Suffolk County police force, who made $241,717 in overtime, the data shows. Then you have the Port Authority Police in NY/NJ. From 2020. The top 10 earners at the Port Authority last year all work for its police department and raked in more than $300,000 each — thanks to six-figure overtime payments. The agency’s highest-paid employee was Regina Womack, a PAPD sergeant who took home $423,467 — after pulling down $259,717 in OT on top of her base pay of $131,843, according to numbers released by the nonprofit Empire Center. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 6:37:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yep. i see this. im in commercial HVAC. the job is so ludicrously varied and complicated that i think about my demographic. who the fuck is going to learn how to Braze, solder, wire, diagnose high voltage, low voltage, learn air flow, air pressure, refrigerant pressures. water to air (WSHP's), air to air, water to water chillers, air to water chillers, VFD diagnosis, pump alignment, furnace diagnosis, boiler diagnosis, etc. who the fuck is capable, motivated and DOESNT have better prospects for employment? journeyman for us basically make 98k if you count benefits including whole family no premium healthcare. Thats before OT. there as much OT as you could want honestly. We are beyond busy. weve all given up on "catching up", we just pick which jobs we think we can get done. this is an industry wide issue. the economy is growing faster than the population. That’s why we have an open boarder policy. Rather than increase pay and hire the most capable, many of these “conservative” business owners like cheap immigrant labor. As one boss once told me, I don’t care what it looks like as long as I get paid for the job! |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:06:27 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doable with a lot of OT in some areas. This is from an article from 10 years ago on Long Island. This is from last month, also on Long Island. Then you have the Port Authority Police in NY/NJ. From 2020. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And yet you give zero indication where this might be. 200k. For a patrol LEO? Really? Doable with a lot of OT in some areas. This is from an article from 10 years ago on Long Island. In Nassau County Gary Renick tops the list as the highest paid cop in the state at $306,299. A significant portion of that salary comes from overtime from court appearances stemming from his 118 DWI arrests. This is from last month, also on Long Island. The employee taking home the most overtime pay in both counties in 2022 was Officer Gardy Wool, a 17-year veteran of the Suffolk County police force, who made $241,717 in overtime, the data shows. Then you have the Port Authority Police in NY/NJ. From 2020. The top 10 earners at the Port Authority last year all work for its police department and raked in more than $300,000 each thanks to six-figure overtime payments. The agency's highest-paid employee was Regina Womack, a PAPD sergeant who took home $423,467 after pulling down $259,717 in OT on top of her base pay of $131,843, according to numbers released by the nonprofit Empire Center. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:09:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's why we have an open boarder policy. Rather than increase pay and hire the most capable, many of these "conservative" business owners like cheap immigrant labor. As one boss once told me, I don't care what it looks like as long as I get paid for the job! |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:32:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The jobs I'm talking about, aren't H1B positions. I'm talking Sales Roles, Account Managers, Low Level Management, etc. No specialty education needed. There are thousands posted, hundreds of applicants to each, and no one seems to be getting any callbacks. I've never seen anything like this in over a decade in the field. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it. I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them. The jobs I'm talking about, aren't H1B positions. I'm talking Sales Roles, Account Managers, Low Level Management, etc. No specialty education needed. There are thousands posted, hundreds of applicants to each, and no one seems to be getting any callbacks. I've never seen anything like this in over a decade in the field. I have a number of friends that are older millennials and Gen-x that have been looking for some time. They are finding lots of "open positions" but it appears they are not being filled. Multiple interviews, plane trips, etc. but then companies not filling the positions. My neighbor is a headhunter and confirms the same - sending lots of good applicants to companies and them not selecting anyone or filling positions. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:37:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats some sig-line material there buddy. 10/10 rant Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The decades of witnessing corporate America and Government screwing the working class over softened us up, but 2020 was the final blow. COVID and the "Summer of Love" broke people. Morale and trust in the establishment is at an all time low. Nobody wants to work for the Devil, and those that do are 100% in it for themselves. Zero loyalty because the working class knows that the establishment will fuck you over the instant it is politically or monetarily expedient to do so. Many would rather stay in their parent's basement or work just enough to be able to afford shelter, food, recreational drugs, and a device that allows them to go online and get the dopamine hits they need to keep from roping themselves. The train is already off the tracks and careening into a ravine, but it will take a while before it finally crashes into the dirt. Hopefully something better springs up from the ashes of the bullshit clown world we are currently in. Thats some sig-line material there buddy. 10/10 rant Every bit of this. We are ripe for The Antichrist. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:44:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Good thread. Was a long read.
Relevant to the topic: 60 Percent of the Population Growth Since the Pandemic is Age 65+ https://mishtalk.com/economics/60-percent-of-the-population-growth-since-the-pandemic-is-age-65/ ^^^ Boomers aging out and what seems like maybe mortality for the 55-59 group because -1,215 vs. +347 is a big swing over only 3 years. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 9:51:40 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Compression is part of why I left and hung up the badge. New hires were making more than me and I had over a decade's worth of experience. Experienced folks were treated like shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can only speak to LE in the southeast, but I can tell you it's a miserable state of affairs all over down here. My state (Georgia) has seen about a 10% decline in the numbers in the LE workforce in the last couple of years. My agency is 140 sworn officers when fully-staffed, but we haven't been fully-staffed in at least half a decade we're averaging about 20 open positions most of that time. Since January 2021, over 80 officers have left the PD and all the replacements have been non-sworn (read: NO experience) folks who have to be sent to the academy, so from the date they start the job it's a solid 10-12 months before they can be expected to handle even the most basic of calls on their own. Add to all of it the horrible pay rates (I make $66k after twenty-two years with the agency) and the compression issue which has come about as a result of raising starting pay rates but not scaling senior officers' pay proportionally (an 8-year officer now makes 96% of what I make) and it's a recipe for disaster. And I don't work for a sleepy, podunk agency we're a suburb of Atlanta and close enough to get all the violence and shenanigans that go with it. I only stay because I'm 6 years from retirement. My pension is nothing to write home about, but if I leave now I get basically nothing AND I'd have to wait years extra to get what little there would be after penalties. Also, our dental and medical plans SUCK for those who like to make that argument. I tell everyone who asks me about LE to run far and fast. I don't know what the future of the job will be, but I am NOT impressed by the job candidates walking through our doors they are BAD. I suspect an enormous crash and correction of the profession is coming if not nationwide, at least in some regions. Sounds like the nursing profession. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 10:20:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is that they have given up on life. .......... This ^^^ is key! |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 10:52:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No life, all work, miserable people in the end. Padding that pension doesn't really pay out when the actuarial tables catch up and you're dead within five years. That "dead within 5 years of retirement" isn't really a thing with those PDs where you can retire in your 40s after 20 years of service. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:55:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a number of friends that are older millennials and Gen-x that have been looking for some time. They are finding lots of "open positions" but it appears they are not being filled. Multiple interviews, plane trips, etc. but then companies not filling the positions. My neighbor is a headhunter and confirms the same - sending lots of good applicants to companies and them not selecting anyone or filling positions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it. I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them. The jobs I'm talking about, aren't H1B positions. I'm talking Sales Roles, Account Managers, Low Level Management, etc. No specialty education needed. There are thousands posted, hundreds of applicants to each, and no one seems to be getting any callbacks. I've never seen anything like this in over a decade in the field. I have a number of friends that are older millennials and Gen-x that have been looking for some time. They are finding lots of "open positions" but it appears they are not being filled. Multiple interviews, plane trips, etc. but then companies not filling the positions. My neighbor is a headhunter and confirms the same - sending lots of good applicants to companies and them not selecting anyone or filling positions. This is exactly what I'm talking about (gen-X here). I've been to interviews where they straight up told me, once I got on site, that the role has been open for months (why?). Interview goes well, panel interview style with great discussion, looks promising, and...crickets, hmmm. And the role stays open. I also get headhunters from Manpower and the like, call me saying I'd be a great fit for XYZ. Actually just had one yesterday. Talking with them, I can easily check all the boxes they're looking for. I submit my resume to them and never hear back. So weird. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:18:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doable with a lot of OT in some areas. This is from an article from 10 years ago on Long Island. This is from last month, also on Long Island. Then you have the Port Authority Police in NY/NJ. From 2020. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And yet you give zero indication where this might be. 200k. For a patrol LEO? Really? Doable with a lot of OT in some areas. This is from an article from 10 years ago on Long Island. In Nassau County Gary Renick tops the list as the highest paid cop in the state at $306,299. A significant portion of that salary comes from overtime from court appearances stemming from his 118 DWI arrests. This is from last month, also on Long Island. The employee taking home the most overtime pay in both counties in 2022 was Officer Gardy Wool, a 17-year veteran of the Suffolk County police force, who made $241,717 in overtime, the data shows. Then you have the Port Authority Police in NY/NJ. From 2020. The top 10 earners at the Port Authority last year all work for its police department and raked in more than $300,000 each — thanks to six-figure overtime payments. The agency’s highest-paid employee was Regina Womack, a PAPD sergeant who took home $423,467 — after pulling down $259,717 in OT on top of her base pay of $131,843, according to numbers released by the nonprofit Empire Center. I lived on Long Island for a good number of years in the past. Its hard to get into those departments. Those income figures sound good though they aren't quite as good as one may think due to taxes and the crazy high cost of living there. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:18:53 PM EDT
[#49]
A local site development/surface mining company has plenty of new hires walk in the door, yet less than half of them pass the drug test or flat-out refuse to take it (they are warned ahead of time that passing an observed drug test is a condition of employment).
A significant portion of new hires don't show up for their first day without notice. They don't shy away from hiring felons, probationers, people with suspended licenses, etc. Either they can't pass a simple drug test or they don't want to work. YMMV |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:22:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Republican lawmakers in FL fought a mandatory e-verify bill because it would personally affect their businesses. The current State Commissioner of Agriculture & Consumer Services and previous State Senate President squashed the e-verify bill multiple times. Why? Because his poultry business would have no labor. Mind you, he campaigned on being tought on immigration and wanting the borders closed and illegals deported. Anyone from the south should automatically know that a white southern named Wilton is a country club elitist that just tells the country bumpkins from his district what they want to hear. |
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