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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:08:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think most would agree we have a drug epidemic in this country. I think most would also agree that we should not be executing the end users, who while not blamless in this, are often victims themselves. . there is such demand out here for narcotics that I can't see a viable strategy for drying it up. We are already doing what we can on the education side to try and show kids the dangers of these substances. I don't know how we can do more to reduce demand. On the medical side, the screws have been turned, and most family practitioners won't write for any narcotics at all. It's difficult even to get tramadol, and now scrutiny is being turned to valium and other such medications. I'd say, by and large, the supply problems coming from the medical side are being rigorously addressed. Which leaves the illicit conduit unaddressed for the most part. This is the only area where I see we can have a meaningful impact without being unduly harsh with the end user. I think mandatory 20 year sentences for mid level dealers would help discourage dealers. I'm actually OK with the death penalty for high volume dealers / distributors. they kill hundreds or even thousands for profit, and they know it. How many lives would be saved if we could reduce the supply 50% The trick here is to admit our human frailty, admit that some people want to get high, no matter the cost, and treat drug use and addiction as a medical issue, instead of a criminal one. Really, that's the answer. Doubling down on "this shit isn't working" doesn't seem like a strategy that anyone would get behind in ANY other facet of human behavior. BUT, you mention drugs and all of a sudden the people lose their fucking minds, reason goes out the window and "we just are doing it *hard* enough." When people make the claim that Communism works, despite human frailty, we laugh. They say "there's no country that's done it *enough* to be successful, that's why it fails" and we point and call them naive and stupid. We point out that human instincts and basic behavioral models preclude Communism's viability. Then we go and apply the same twisted logic to drug prohibition and the criminal answers to the issue. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:10:34 AM EDT
[#2]
While I support this at a purely emotional level, my logical self says hell no.
Like SO MANY laws that have been specifically passed to fight the war on drugs you can bet this will get misused within a decade. Think civil asset forfeiture. It may take 100 OXYs to reach trafficker status today but that number will certainly be reduded to 50, then 25, then 10 OXYs without a prescription in order to pump those arrest numbers up to make the police look like they need more manpower. Same as every other law we have today. Hire 20% more cops, the department better be making 20+% more arrests and giving 20+% more tickets to justify the current expense and future hiring. PD is a business just like any other and the line better be going up and to the right or there will be a change of scenery. What is the threshold for a trafficker of MJ? An ounce? We're going to be killing lots of wannabe hippie kids. No, just no. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:10:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing about drugs is that there is ALWAYS unlimited demand. Drug epidemics are not caused by a bunch of new users. There are always more willing users than there are drugs. Epidemics are caused by an increase in supply. I grew up in the 70's, surrounded by recreational drugs. There were always plenty of pills around, and nobody got addicted. The main reason was that there was never an endless, easy supply of any one thing. There were always plenty of opioids, but I don't know anyone that ever even saw heroin. There wasn't any. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does that include MDs? 
Murphy was the highest prescriber of opioids in the Medicare Part D program between 2013 and 2015, according to Raycom Media's analysis of the most recent data available. In a 3-year span, Murphy wrote more than 70,000 opioid prescriptions to just 3,200 Medicare patients. In 2015 alone, he gave those elderly and disabled patients enough opioids that, if taken as prescribed, would have lasted each of them 497 days. Raycom Media did a deep dive into the backgrounds of Medicare's top 1,000 opioid prescribers and found that few have faced discipline for prescribing drugs that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says should be restricted to cancer patients, those who had surgery or were involved in a serious accident and some with chronic pain. In the past two decades, 98 prescribers have been sanctioned for inappropriately prescribing medicine; 22 are facing criminal charges or have been convicted. But 49 of the prescribers with checkered pasts - including Murphy - have licenses that allow them to practice as of Feb. 14. Murphy lists his specialties as anesthesiology and pain management. In 1998, he received a medical license in Alabama and ran two clinics in the northern part of the state until the medical board began investigating his prescribing habits. In 2016, the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners levied an eight-count complaint against Murphy for, among other things, endangering patients and prescribing not for legitimate medical purposes. The 33-page complaint detailed Murphy's questionable care of 15 patients. One was a 58-year-old man who overdosed on a dangerous combination of opioids and other drugs prescribed by Murphy. Several other patients said they received opioids even though they had documented substance abuse issues. In some cases, Murphy increased the doses. The committee that investigated Murphy had "grave concerns" about him and recommended that the board revoke his medical license. But that didn't happen. Instead, the board allowed his license to practice in Alabama expire at the end of 2016 and dismissed the case two months later. That left Murphy's reputation unscathed by formal disciplinary actions, and free to practice medicine in his home state of Tennessee. I've always turned down prescription pain killers with one exception... kidney stones. Even when the oral surgeon removed my wisdom tooth, they insisted that I accept a prescription for hydrocodone. I accepted it because I wanted to leave the office. My wife made me get the prescription filled, but the bottle remains in the cabinet unopened. That's just logic, right there. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:10:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing about drugs is that there is ALWAYS unlimited demand. Drug epidemics are not caused by a bunch of new users. There are always more willing users than there are drugs. Epidemics are caused by an increase in supply. I grew up in the 70's, surrounded by recreational drugs. There were always plenty of pills around, and nobody got addicted. The main reason was that there was never an endless, easy supply of any one thing. There were always plenty of opioids, but I don't know anyone that ever even saw heroin. There wasn't any. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does that include MDs?
Murphy was the highest prescriber of opioids in the Medicare Part D program between 2013 and 2015, according to Raycom Media's analysis of the most recent data available. In a 3-year span, Murphy wrote more than 70,000 opioid prescriptions to just 3,200 Medicare patients. In 2015 alone, he gave those elderly and disabled patients enough opioids that, if taken as prescribed, would have lasted each of them 497 days. Raycom Media did a deep dive into the backgrounds of Medicare's top 1,000 opioid prescribers and found that few have faced discipline for prescribing drugs that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says should be restricted to cancer patients, those who had surgery or were involved in a serious accident and some with chronic pain. In the past two decades, 98 prescribers have been sanctioned for inappropriately prescribing medicine; 22 are facing criminal charges or have been convicted. But 49 of the prescribers with checkered pasts - including Murphy - have licenses that allow them to practice as of Feb. 14. Murphy lists his specialties as anesthesiology and pain management. In 1998, he received a medical license in Alabama and ran two clinics in the northern part of the state until the medical board began investigating his prescribing habits. In 2016, the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners levied an eight-count complaint against Murphy for, among other things, endangering patients and prescribing not for legitimate medical purposes. The 33-page complaint detailed Murphy's questionable care of 15 patients. One was a 58-year-old man who overdosed on a dangerous combination of opioids and other drugs prescribed by Murphy. Several other patients said they received opioids even though they had documented substance abuse issues. In some cases, Murphy increased the doses. The committee that investigated Murphy had "grave concerns" about him and recommended that the board revoke his medical license. But that didn't happen. Instead, the board allowed his license to practice in Alabama expire at the end of 2016 and dismissed the case two months later. That left Murphy's reputation unscathed by formal disciplinary actions, and free to practice medicine in his home state of Tennessee. I've always turned down prescription pain killers with one exception... kidney stones. Even when the oral surgeon removed my wisdom tooth, they insisted that I accept a prescription for hydrocodone. I accepted it because I wanted to leave the office. My wife made me get the prescription filled, but the bottle remains in the cabinet unopened. That's just logic, right there. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:12:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does that include MDs?
Murphy was the highest prescriber of opioids in the Medicare Part D program between 2013 and 2015, according to Raycom Media's analysis of the most recent data available. In a 3-year span, Murphy wrote more than 70,000 opioid prescriptions to just 3,200 Medicare patients. In 2015 alone, he gave those elderly and disabled patients enough opioids that, if taken as prescribed, would have lasted each of them 497 days. Raycom Media did a deep dive into the backgrounds of Medicare's top 1,000 opioid prescribers and found that few have faced discipline for prescribing drugs that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says should be restricted to cancer patients, those who had surgery or were involved in a serious accident and some with chronic pain. In the past two decades, 98 prescribers have been sanctioned for inappropriately prescribing medicine; 22 are facing criminal charges or have been convicted. But 49 of the prescribers with checkered pasts - including Murphy - have licenses that allow them to practice as of Feb. 14. Murphy lists his specialties as anesthesiology and pain management. In 1998, he received a medical license in Alabama and ran two clinics in the northern part of the state until the medical board began investigating his prescribing habits. In 2016, the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners levied an eight-count complaint against Murphy for, among other things, endangering patients and prescribing not for legitimate medical purposes. The 33-page complaint detailed Murphy's questionable care of 15 patients. One was a 58-year-old man who overdosed on a dangerous combination of opioids and other drugs prescribed by Murphy. Several other patients said they received opioids even though they had documented substance abuse issues. In some cases, Murphy increased the doses. The committee that investigated Murphy had "grave concerns" about him and recommended that the board revoke his medical license. But that didn't happen. Instead, the board allowed his license to practice in Alabama expire at the end of 2016 and dismissed the case two months later. That left Murphy's reputation unscathed by formal disciplinary actions, and free to practice medicine in his home state of Tennessee. I've always turned down prescription pain killers with one exception... kidney stones. Even when the oral surgeon removed my wisdom tooth, they insisted that I accept a prescription for hydrocodone. I accepted it because I wanted to leave the office. My wife made me get the prescription filled, but the bottle remains in the cabinet unopened. That's just logic, right there. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:14:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Yup thats dumb.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:14:44 AM EDT
[#7]
What many fail to understand about addicts is that most of them do not want to take the drug any longer. The problem is that they got themselves addicted from taking it for a certain period of time. Most no longer even get high anymore from taking the drug. It just makes them feel "normal" and avoid getting sick from the horrible withdrawal effects that opiates cause. Thus they get stuck in a trap. And if somehow they do manage to get past the horrible physical WD effects then they deal with longer term effects such as terrible depression which causes many to relapse.
We need a different solution than the Drug War because the current system is not working. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:14:59 AM EDT
[#8]
And execute all alcohol distributors.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:17:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:18:34 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did I say that? Could you clarify your position if my estimation of it is off. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:19:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Site staff nevertrump troll wants his thread to get all the attention so he locks the original NY values |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:20:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Permanently removing drug dealers from the legal industry has struck a nerve here I see. It reminds me of how the electric and coal industry reacted when Obama put a hit on coal and all those jobs were lost.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:20:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Part of that has been in part due the big crackdown on doctors prescribing opioids. Now many of the people that were taking the pills like Percocet or Vicodin have resorted to harder drugs like heroin and fentanyl to avoid withdrawal. These drugs are now much more easily available than prescription pills and much cheaper. And as such there is a big demand now with it streaming across the border. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does that include MDs?
Murphy was the highest prescriber of opioids in the Medicare Part D program between 2013 and 2015, according to Raycom Media's analysis of the most recent data available. In a 3-year span, Murphy wrote more than 70,000 opioid prescriptions to just 3,200 Medicare patients. In 2015 alone, he gave those elderly and disabled patients enough opioids that, if taken as prescribed, would have lasted each of them 497 days. Raycom Media did a deep dive into the backgrounds of Medicare's top 1,000 opioid prescribers and found that few have faced discipline for prescribing drugs that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says should be restricted to cancer patients, those who had surgery or were involved in a serious accident and some with chronic pain. In the past two decades, 98 prescribers have been sanctioned for inappropriately prescribing medicine; 22 are facing criminal charges or have been convicted. But 49 of the prescribers with checkered pasts - including Murphy - have licenses that allow them to practice as of Feb. 14. Murphy lists his specialties as anesthesiology and pain management. In 1998, he received a medical license in Alabama and ran two clinics in the northern part of the state until the medical board began investigating his prescribing habits. In 2016, the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners levied an eight-count complaint against Murphy for, among other things, endangering patients and prescribing not for legitimate medical purposes. The 33-page complaint detailed Murphy's questionable care of 15 patients. One was a 58-year-old man who overdosed on a dangerous combination of opioids and other drugs prescribed by Murphy. Several other patients said they received opioids even though they had documented substance abuse issues. In some cases, Murphy increased the doses. The committee that investigated Murphy had "grave concerns" about him and recommended that the board revoke his medical license. But that didn't happen. Instead, the board allowed his license to practice in Alabama expire at the end of 2016 and dismissed the case two months later. That left Murphy's reputation unscathed by formal disciplinary actions, and free to practice medicine in his home state of Tennessee. I've always turned down prescription pain killers with one exception... kidney stones. Even when the oral surgeon removed my wisdom tooth, they insisted that I accept a prescription for hydrocodone. I accepted it because I wanted to leave the office. My wife made me get the prescription filled, but the bottle remains in the cabinet unopened. That's just logic, right there. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:21:14 AM EDT
[#14]
For major cartel criminals, meth and herion/opioid dealers, I'm OK with this.
Death or loss of citizenship and deportation. Their choice. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:21:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People that years ago would not have been doing heroin are doing it now because it is cheap and it is everywhere. Its become a big problem here in VT. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? They aren't doing heroin because it's easy to get. They're doing heroin because it's easier to get than the shit they got hooked on to begin with. Another win in the fight to stop drug use, innit? |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:23:34 AM EDT
[#16]
The way of Duterte
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:25:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Backwards. Drug flow didn't increase because of demand, or pills. There is ALWAYS unlimited demand for drugs. Drug flow across the border increased because border security decreased, and allowed channels to become established. Heroin is especially bad around here, and the people that are dying aren't people that had bad backs and got addicted to Vicodin. They're people that never so much as sprained an ankle. They are life-long recreational drug users that got hooked on heroin. ETA: Wait, unless you're discussing purity disparity deaths. I can't argue with that assertion. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:27:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, no way Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I doubt the supreme court will approve |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:38:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Trump is starting to sound like a third world dictator. Maybe he needs to shut the fuck up and start “winning” like he promised.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:39:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trump is starting to sound like a third world dictator. Maybe he needs to shut the fuck up and start “winning” like he promised. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:41:12 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:41:59 AM EDT
[#22]
I wish we would take an approach that worked for European countries and Portugal.
Decriminalize drug use and create new policies and programs that would treat addicts Without addicts, there is no market for the dealers. The War on Drugs has been a massive and very expensive failure. All that money, trillions upon trillions of dollars, and we are worse off than ever. With no sign of it getting better. We need to stop treating drug use like a criminal problem and start treating it like a medical problem. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:42:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the only conclusion I could draw from your post. Apparently, you're convinced that "endless supply" is the reason people are using drugs. Could you clarify your position if my estimation of it is off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Where did I say that? Could you clarify your position if my estimation of it is off. Your experience may have been different in your AO, but I'm in rural/suburban Ohio. Things have changed here. The first real problem here was meth, because anyone could make it, and they did - all over the place -and it became readily available. Back in the day, LSD and Quaaludes were all the rage, and plentiful, but not quite so addictive. The OD's and the people in rehab are almost all from heroin. If there was no heroin, there would still be OD's, and there would still be addicts, but only a small fraction of what there is now, and mostly for something other than opioids. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:42:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah this kind of stuff is not going to win hearts and minds for re-election Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Trump is starting to sound like a third world dictator. Maybe he needs to shut the fuck up and start “winning” like he promised. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:45:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did I say that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does that include MDs?
Murphy was the highest prescriber of opioids in the Medicare Part D program between 2013 and 2015, according to Raycom Media's analysis of the most recent data available. In a 3-year span, Murphy wrote more than 70,000 opioid prescriptions to just 3,200 Medicare patients. In 2015 alone, he gave those elderly and disabled patients enough opioids that, if taken as prescribed, would have lasted each of them 497 days. Raycom Media did a deep dive into the backgrounds of Medicare's top 1,000 opioid prescribers and found that few have faced discipline for prescribing drugs that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says should be restricted to cancer patients, those who had surgery or were involved in a serious accident and some with chronic pain. In the past two decades, 98 prescribers have been sanctioned for inappropriately prescribing medicine; 22 are facing criminal charges or have been convicted. But 49 of the prescribers with checkered pasts - including Murphy - have licenses that allow them to practice as of Feb. 14. Murphy lists his specialties as anesthesiology and pain management. In 1998, he received a medical license in Alabama and ran two clinics in the northern part of the state until the medical board began investigating his prescribing habits. In 2016, the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners levied an eight-count complaint against Murphy for, among other things, endangering patients and prescribing not for legitimate medical purposes. The 33-page complaint detailed Murphy's questionable care of 15 patients. One was a 58-year-old man who overdosed on a dangerous combination of opioids and other drugs prescribed by Murphy. Several other patients said they received opioids even though they had documented substance abuse issues. In some cases, Murphy increased the doses. The committee that investigated Murphy had "grave concerns" about him and recommended that the board revoke his medical license. But that didn't happen. Instead, the board allowed his license to practice in Alabama expire at the end of 2016 and dismissed the case two months later. That left Murphy's reputation unscathed by formal disciplinary actions, and free to practice medicine in his home state of Tennessee. I've always turned down prescription pain killers with one exception... kidney stones. Even when the oral surgeon removed my wisdom tooth, they insisted that I accept a prescription for hydrocodone. I accepted it because I wanted to leave the office. My wife made me get the prescription filled, but the bottle remains in the cabinet unopened. That's just logic, right there. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:47:11 AM EDT
[#26]
A couple of points here.
Most drug overdose deaths are illegal street drugs, the equivalent of "bathtub gin" during Prohibition. As for "three strikes" there are so many felonies today that the law would punish people convicted felony speeding the same as those convicted of armed robbery. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:49:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most research points to those white collar soccer moms getting hooked on pills they were prescribed that they can no longer easily get as the impetus for heroin use among the demographics that "normally wouldn't." They aren't doing heroin because it's easy to get. They're doing heroin because it's easier to get than the shit they got hooked on to begin with. Another win in the fight to stop drug use, innit? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? They aren't doing heroin because it's easy to get. They're doing heroin because it's easier to get than the shit they got hooked on to begin with. Another win in the fight to stop drug use, innit? 
The people that are addicted and dying here aren't white collar anything. They're mostly life long drug using trailer trash. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:50:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Never happen.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:50:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You seem to be confusing addiction with overdose. People OD'ed all the time. It wasn't because they were addicted. The reason people are using drugs is the same as it has been for thousands of years. The reason they are getting addicted is that far more people have an endless supply of powerful drugs that are highly addictive. Your experience may have been different in your AO, but I'm in rural/suburban Ohio. Things have changed here. The first real problem here was meth, because anyone could make it, and they did - all over the place -and it became readily available. Back in the day, LSD and Quaaludes were all the rage, and plentiful, but not quite so addictive. The OD's and the people in rehab are almost all from heroin. If there was no heroin, there would still be OD's, and there would still be addicts, but only a small fraction of what there is now, and mostly for something other than opioids. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Where did I say that? Could you clarify your position if my estimation of it is off. Your experience may have been different in your AO, but I'm in rural/suburban Ohio. Things have changed here. The first real problem here was meth, because anyone could make it, and they did - all over the place -and it became readily available. Back in the day, LSD and Quaaludes were all the rage, and plentiful, but not quite so addictive. The OD's and the people in rehab are almost all from heroin. If there was no heroin, there would still be OD's, and there would still be addicts, but only a small fraction of what there is now, and mostly for something other than opioids. Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? Now that you've repeated your position I can see there's little point in debating it. I can only bring reason to bear and I can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:52:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most research will say anything you want it to say. How many doctors that prescribe to soccer moms are inept enough to allow them to become addicted?
The people that are addicted and dying here aren't white collar anything. They're mostly life long drug using trailer trash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? They aren't doing heroin because it's easy to get. They're doing heroin because it's easier to get than the shit they got hooked on to begin with. Another win in the fight to stop drug use, innit?
The people that are addicted and dying here aren't white collar anything. They're mostly life long drug using trailer trash. Another triumph in the WoD. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:54:45 AM EDT
[#31]
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Drugs are the main cause for violence in this country, yet the socialists are blaming guns for this while condoning drug abuse. I'm perfectly fine with it. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:57:41 AM EDT
[#32]
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Drug POLICY is the main cause of violence in this country. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Drugs are the main cause for violence in this country, yet the socialists are blaming guns for this while condoning drug abuse. I'm perfectly fine with it. 
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Posted: 3/19/2018 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Involuntary manslaughter has NEVER been a capital offense in western civilization that I am aware of, just in shithole countries. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you sell someone something horrible like Meth, or Heroine, that they intend to use & it kills them, at the very least you should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. If someone sold someone bad heroine they knew would kill them then it should be ratcheted up to Manslaughter 1. I never said I agreed with a death penalty for dealing. Now if the dealer shot up their client with knowingly bad drugs or knowingly gave them too much, that could be charged as murder. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:02:54 PM EDT
[#34]
I've seen firsthand the permanent damage it has on the user and those around them.
There is a special place in hell for drug dealers, and I have no problem seeing them executed. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:05:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that what you are saying it true, unless you are only talking about MJ. Are you telling me that someone who uses opiods "recreationally" Just puts them down and walks away? we know it dose'nt work like that. not with meth, opiods (including morphine), or really any other drugs. I'm not even sure you can say that about the vast majority of MJ users Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think that what you are saying it true, unless you are only talking about MJ. Are you telling me that someone who uses opiods "recreationally" Just puts them down and walks away? we know it dose'nt work like that. not with meth, opiods (including morphine), or really any other drugs. I'm not even sure you can say that about the vast majority of MJ users If what you said above were remotely true, we wouldn't have all these hard core junkies and addicts and deaths from OD. We are in a drug crisis in this country, and you are in denial. I tried a LOT of stuff, and yet I'm not some down and out druggie. Lots of people do and wind up fine. And a ton of people currently play around with certain substances from time to time. Professional people that will smoke weed occasionally, do some MDMA or coke, or take an annual trip with mushroom or LSD. As to opioids, these are people that will, at a party, take a few prescription pills but then not touch the stuff for another year. The demand for mind-altering substances is as old as mankind itself, and much of the demand is "invisible" demand, because those people don't ever run across law enforcement or rehab. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:05:05 PM EDT
[#36]
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I've seen firsthand the permanent damage it has on the user and those around them. There is a special place in hell for drug dealers, and I have no problem seeing them executed. If we could just get people to stop selling drugs, nobody would use them. FWIW, I'm aware of your story, I'm not making light of your pain. I'm pointing out that you're misplacing the blame, here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:05:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Giving government more power to be abused is insane.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:05:51 PM EDT
[#38]
I don’t trust Trump, Sessions, or the entirety of the US Government with anything. Much less expanding the War on Drugs via increased use of the death penalty.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:06:23 PM EDT
[#39]
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So GD is for the War on Drugs now? I thought we decided was a waste of time? Place is bipolar |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:09:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Can some of you please stop using the word ”heroine” to describe heroin? At least know how to spell the name of the drug. Jeez.
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:11:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you provide some support for your assertions? Because ALL of the policy research I've done says the opposite about the *cause* of the opiate epidemic. ETA: Wait, unless you're discussing purity disparity deaths. I can't argue with that assertion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Backwards. Drug flow didn't increase because of demand, or pills. There is ALWAYS unlimited demand for drugs. Drug flow across the border increased because border security decreased, and allowed channels to become established. Heroin is especially bad around here, and the people that are dying aren't people that had bad backs and got addicted to Vicodin. They're people that never so much as sprained an ankle. They are life-long recreational drug users that got hooked on heroin. ETA: Wait, unless you're discussing purity disparity deaths. I can't argue with that assertion. It would also mean that all of those white collar soccer moms that somehow accidentally manage to get addicted to pills that a doctor prescribed to them, sought out a heroin dealer, rather than mentioning it to their doctor. Ridiculous. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:12:41 PM EDT
[#42]
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In your reply that he quoted. Lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does that include MDs?
Murphy was the highest prescriber of opioids in the Medicare Part D program between 2013 and 2015, according to Raycom Media's analysis of the most recent data available. In a 3-year span, Murphy wrote more than 70,000 opioid prescriptions to just 3,200 Medicare patients. In 2015 alone, he gave those elderly and disabled patients enough opioids that, if taken as prescribed, would have lasted each of them 497 days. Raycom Media did a deep dive into the backgrounds of Medicare's top 1,000 opioid prescribers and found that few have faced discipline for prescribing drugs that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says should be restricted to cancer patients, those who had surgery or were involved in a serious accident and some with chronic pain. In the past two decades, 98 prescribers have been sanctioned for inappropriately prescribing medicine; 22 are facing criminal charges or have been convicted. But 49 of the prescribers with checkered pasts - including Murphy - have licenses that allow them to practice as of Feb. 14. Murphy lists his specialties as anesthesiology and pain management. In 1998, he received a medical license in Alabama and ran two clinics in the northern part of the state until the medical board began investigating his prescribing habits. In 2016, the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners levied an eight-count complaint against Murphy for, among other things, endangering patients and prescribing not for legitimate medical purposes. The 33-page complaint detailed Murphy's questionable care of 15 patients. One was a 58-year-old man who overdosed on a dangerous combination of opioids and other drugs prescribed by Murphy. Several other patients said they received opioids even though they had documented substance abuse issues. In some cases, Murphy increased the doses. The committee that investigated Murphy had "grave concerns" about him and recommended that the board revoke his medical license. But that didn't happen. Instead, the board allowed his license to practice in Alabama expire at the end of 2016 and dismissed the case two months later. That left Murphy's reputation unscathed by formal disciplinary actions, and free to practice medicine in his home state of Tennessee. I've always turned down prescription pain killers with one exception... kidney stones. Even when the oral surgeon removed my wisdom tooth, they insisted that I accept a prescription for hydrocodone. I accepted it because I wanted to leave the office. My wife made me get the prescription filled, but the bottle remains in the cabinet unopened. That's just logic, right there. What has changed has nothing to do with doctors, or drug companies. It has to do with heroin and synthetics streaming across the border. The supply has become unlimited. The media and the pols like the term "opioid", because it deflects attention from the border, on to the evil drug companies. The vast majority of the time, when you hear of an opioid overdose, it was heroin, or a synthetic. As far as DJT, I believe that this is part of a strategy to focus the attention where it belongs - on the people bringing the drugs here. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Being the EHS/EMS/Healthcare field...God bless you President Trump.
The opiate epidemic needs serious attention. It absolutely amazes me how things are actually this bad...but yet it remains so unseen by the general population. I would 100% be in favor of the death penalty for the head of a major distribution ring. 100%. Wanna know why? Because they would kill you with a knife or gun or their products without a moments hesitation and without a smidgen of regret or remorse. Remove these people from society. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:13:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People that years ago would not have been doing heroin are doing it now because it is cheap and it is everywhere. Its become a big problem here in VT. I used to try nearly *anything*, but I would never have tried heroin back then. Even when someone tossed down some in front of me, I along with my friends passed on it. I honestly think it's a brain thing whether or not someone gets addicted. I did plenty of addicting shit, but never felt the urge to seek these things out later. The WOD™ has lost a lot of credibility with the younger people, because of the misinformation out there. You hear LSD is addictive and habit forming. Then as a young hippie you try it, are completely blown away by just how awesome it is, but yet still don't feel an urge to keep doing it. And then you learn that you physically *can't* trip on it more than one day in a row, because the brain's receptors to it just won't trigger from another dose. And then, as a young hippie, you completely dismiss everything you are told about drug use, because you know you were lied to. Just like reefer madness. Education starts with telling people just what effects these drugs have, and picking your battles. When my kid grows up, will I be upset if he tries mushrooms? Pot? LSD? Nope. Meth? Heroin? Yes. So let's put the focus there, throw out the "gateway drug" fallacy, and admit that 99.9999% of all people who take acid (as one example) grow emotionally and intellectually as a result of having taken it, and accept that it's a part of growing up. If you're gonna take it, you're gonna take it. I grew up in rural OH and those things, along with opium weren't hard to come by at all. So much for the War On Drugs stemming supply. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:14:02 PM EDT
[#45]
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Policy research done by whom? The people trying to steer the policy? Do you really believe that doctors over-prescribing has caused the epidemic? There would have to be almost as many stupid doctors as there are drug addicts. I assure you, it was MUCH easier to get pills from a doctor 20 years ago, and we didn't have an epidemic. It would also mean that all of those white collar soccer moms that somehow accidentally manage to get addicted to pills that a doctor prescribed to them, sought out a heroin dealer, rather than mentioning it to their doctor. Ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Backwards. Drug flow didn't increase because of demand, or pills. There is ALWAYS unlimited demand for drugs. Drug flow across the border increased because border security decreased, and allowed channels to become established. Heroin is especially bad around here, and the people that are dying aren't people that had bad backs and got addicted to Vicodin. They're people that never so much as sprained an ankle. They are life-long recreational drug users that got hooked on heroin. ETA: Wait, unless you're discussing purity disparity deaths. I can't argue with that assertion. It would also mean that all of those white collar soccer moms that somehow accidentally manage to get addicted to pills that a doctor prescribed to them, sought out a heroin dealer, rather than mentioning it to their doctor. Ridiculous. I asked you to support your position, you could have said "no" or "I can't" or even "I'm rubber, you're glue." Any of those would have save us both a lot of time writing and reading. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:14:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remember this? Yeah, you just said that, again. Now that you've repeated your position I can see there's little point in debating it. I can only bring reason to bear and I can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Where did I say that? Could you clarify your position if my estimation of it is off. Your experience may have been different in your AO, but I'm in rural/suburban Ohio. Things have changed here. The first real problem here was meth, because anyone could make it, and they did - all over the place -and it became readily available. Back in the day, LSD and Quaaludes were all the rage, and plentiful, but not quite so addictive. The OD's and the people in rehab are almost all from heroin. If there was no heroin, there would still be OD's, and there would still be addicts, but only a small fraction of what there is now, and mostly for something other than opioids. Wait, so your position is that heroin was harder to get in the past and *that's* why people didn't OD? Now that you've repeated your position I can see there's little point in debating it. I can only bring reason to bear and I can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:14:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We going to kill big tobacco executives too? Salesmen? The fact that you equate the two shows how little you know about the subject. ETA: Weird copypasta on the first sentence. |
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:15:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can everyone please stop using the word ”heroine” to describe heroin? At least know how to spell the name of the drug you want to put people to death for. Jeez. 
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:17:31 PM EDT
[#49]
I want witches burned at the stake, communists too
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Posted: 3/19/2018 12:18:36 PM EDT
[#50]
I worked street to mid-level narcotics for 7 years, I don't have a problem with this.
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