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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:03:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 15 weeks is actually popular positioning but you also have to make exceptions for rape and medical emergency where the fetus will not be viable and there is high risk for the mother. Which shouldn't be an issue considering how rare those situations are. What matters more than anything is how you sell a 15 week ban. If you call it that it will be used as a negative against you. If you frame it as federally protecting first trimester choice you can win with it. Words matter a fuck ton in these situations because the corporate media uses clips out of context and most people don't look past that. Trump is an idiot with language though so he'll probably fuck this up somehow. That said. It will be exciting to see all pro life trump cult members find ways to justify changing their mind on first trimester abortion . Lol there's pretty much never a medical reason where it's actually necessary to kill the unborn person. Sure removing them from their mother to save her life may result in their death but that is not the intentional killing with malice and forethought of a human being (murder). I am not sure where someone would have been raped and not be sure about an abortion till after 15 weeks. If 15 weeks is the standard then hand out plan b when they do the forensic rape kit. I guess maybe if you were held captive for 3 months after the rape there may be some argument there. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:04:16 PM EDT
[#2]
FP-MUTHAFUCKIN-NI
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:05:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: do NOT support abortion. It's evil. however, those are my values, not everyone. I would be fine if abortion happened prior to the baby having nerves or feeling any pain. Or PlanB type things that cause the pregnancy not to take. However, as much as I hate abortion, STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. Just say "SC has said this is a state issue, if you want it, push your state reps for options" This will just rile up the libs, and gains you basically nothing with the evangelicals. They still hate you cause you said a bad word once. I love Trump but damn dude, he keeps punching himself right in the dick. so the libs who were already convinced trump is hitler and gains nothing with evangelicals.... so net 0 effect on votes? |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:05:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and weed are stupid hills to die on. I’m not in favor of abortion. But it has its place, especially considering it’s mostly democrats getting them. Why are we stacking the deck against our own interests? They’re still gonna get abortions. Just like gay guys are still gonna have sex with each other, legally married or not. You don’t like abortion? Don’t get one. They don’t like guns? Don’t buy one. Freedom goes both ways. Yep...that's my take on it too. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:08:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump can’t win anyway so what does it matter? Only in GD does anyone think Trump is winning this election. GD and pretty much every fucking pollster |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:20:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "We need to be more like Europe" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/31782/murder-2348704.png In terms of stuff like gay marriage and abortion, the US has historically been FAR more "progressive" than many European countries. Abortion was only legal in Europe in a few countries before the US legalized it in 1973. The vast majority of countries in Europe did not legalize it until AFTER the US did - and there are countries in Europe where it wasn't legalized until very recently (Ireland in 2018, Switzerland in 2002, for example), and countries like Poland have very restrictive abortion laws. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:25:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Help me out here. A human pregnancy is typically 40 weeks, right? Abortion from Roe was legalized for pregnancies up until the end of the second trimester. Or ballpark 26-27 weeks. Is that right? If so, then while 15 weeks is within the second trimester (which begins at Week 13 or 14), it's certainly a large restriction from the previous position, and that would be controversial. Where am I wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wait, I thought he was a fake Christian? And your title is misleading - he supports a ban after 15 weeks (second trimester). Anyone who thinks that's controversial wasn't voting for him anyway. Help me out here. A human pregnancy is typically 40 weeks, right? Abortion from Roe was legalized for pregnancies up until the end of the second trimester. Or ballpark 26-27 weeks. Is that right? If so, then while 15 weeks is within the second trimester (which begins at Week 13 or 14), it's certainly a large restriction from the previous position, and that would be controversial. Where am I wrong? Partial-birth abortions were allowed under Roe. Using it as your benchmark for what would be deemed controversial to middle america is ridiculous. ETA - https://www.aei.org/op-eds/gallup-poll-shows-most-americans-would-vote-for-a-15-week-abortion-ban/ |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:27:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Partial-birth abortions were allowed under Roe. Using it as your benchmark for what would be controversial to middle america is ridiculous. All abortions are murder. One of four types of legal murders. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:30:18 PM EDT
[#9]
The Supreme Court relegated abortion back to the states where it belongs. The Donald should have kept his mouth shut on the issue.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:41:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Its a stupid issue to touch, not because the 15 week idea is particularly insane, but because every backwoods republican that has opened their mouth about extending abortion bans to Plan B, IUDs, and sundry other things provides quotes for attack ad fodder.
The 25% of women that have or will have an abortion in their lives isn't the big issue. Its the other 75%, which virtually all want birth control legal that can be manipulated to believing that Republicans, if they had the power, would restrict birth control. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:42:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump is swinging wildly. He's on the ropes and he knows it. This position will piss everyone off. Evangelical circles I'm in are already crying foul because it allows abortions for 15 weeks. Anyone pro abortion will balk at any kind of ban. Its like he's trying to lose the election. So the folks you know that feel that way are going to vote for Biden instead of Trump?? Or simply not participate in politics for the time being. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:43:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the folks you know that feel that way are going to vote for Biden instead of Trump?? Or simply not participate in politics for the time being. Believe it or not, there are right leaning individuals who become single issue voters when abortion is on the ballot. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:05:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Believe it or not, there are right leaning individuals who become single issue voters when abortion is on the ballot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the folks you know that feel that way are going to vote for Biden instead of Trump?? Or simply not participate in politics for the time being. Believe it or not, there are right leaning individuals who become single issue voters when abortion is on the ballot. Nuance matters. Abortion is not on the ballot. 2nd+ trimester abortion is. Only 37% would outright disagree with this proposal, while a majority (55%) agree with it. And here's a hint - none of that 37% was voting for Trump anyway (including you). https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:10:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Trump in favor of national abortion ban... just replaying this statement on repeat could lose him the election. It further loses the exact demographic he needs to recapture: suburban women. Trump's position is only a statistically winning issue with older, whiter, evangelical men and in states who are already voting for him. It's a MAJOR vote loser for many swing voters particularly in swing states he needs to peel away from the potato. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-leaning-toward-15-week-national-abortion-ban-2024-03-20/ Trump says he'd support the 15 week limit cuz he has to "win elections"... what the fuck is wrong with him? 6 week ban support is at 23% support nationally but his proposed national ban is still only has support in 30s nationally. And we still wonder why we lose election? To be fair, I believe that puts us inline with Europe but I agree it's a net-loss election wise. That said, Abortion for birth control purposes is abhorrent and has no place in a just society. 15 wks is a bit too soon, I believe politically a 26+ wk ban would be supported by the vast majority of Americans and not hurt one at the ballot box. EDT...That said, leave it up to the states to decide as it should be. Take the 'W' for over-turning Row vs Wade and wax about state voters being able to decide what makes sense, making this a federal issue only plays into the Dems. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:26:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump is a dumbass. Congressional legislation does not make a abortion ban constitutional, only a ratified amendment can do that. It is a state matter to regulate or not regulate. Congress, like the courts cannot change that. Dipshits, all of them. 100% this SCOTUS properly put it out of the purview of fedgov |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:26:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump is swinging wildly. He's on the ropes and he knows it. This position will piss everyone off. Evangelical circles I'm in are already crying foul because it allows abortions for 15 weeks. Anyone pro abortion will balk at any kind of ban. Its like he's trying to lose the election. People are starting to get it. What's easier? A- Standing on the sidelines saying I've been cheated and telling everyone things would be so much better if I was in charge. And criticize everyone in charge? B- Or actually being the one IN charge and putting money where your mouth is? Actually being held responsible and accountable for everything you claim? Which choice will bring in the most money? |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:28:31 PM EDT
[#17]
I don't know whether this is going to work out or not.
15 weeks w/strong protections for the mother's life and edge cases is the optimal political position IMO, but I don't see it benefitting Trump particularly. The issue is already part of the election though, Trump isn't going to be able to avoid taking a position when red states are going after IVF and such. Quoted: there's pretty much never a medical reason where it's actually necessary to kill the unborn person. Sure removing them from their mother to save her life may result in their death but that is not the intentional killing with malice and forethought of a human being (murder). I am not sure where someone would have been raped and not be sure about an abortion till after 15 weeks. If 15 weeks is the standard then hand out plan b when they do the forensic rape kit. I guess maybe if you were held captive for 3 months after the rape there may be some argument there. Rape/incest victims, especially minors, don't always report to authorities immediately. Anyone who's worked in a related field long enough will run into it. I quit working as an EMT because I didn't want any more of that stuff in my head. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:31:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Talk about chumming the water. The piranha fighting the sharks.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:34:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Talk about chumming the water. The piranha fighting the sharks. That's an interesting scenario. I know that some sharks, such as Bull sharks, occasionally wander into fresh water. I wonder what would happen if one was attacked by piranhas. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:39:05 PM EDT
[#20]
theatre
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:50:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nuance matters. Abortion is not on the ballot. 2nd+ trimester abortion is. Only 37% would outright disagree with this proposal, while a majority (55%) agree with it. And here's a hint - none of that 37% was voting for Trump anyway (including you). https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx No, kiddo. Nuance does not matter. Nuance is dead. Taking a measured stance on the issue just allows the left to declare “they are going to take away your right to an abortion”. People are motivated by headlines and clickbait. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:53:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Whether or not anyone agrees with it, the publicity of it isn't good.
I'm against 99% of abortions. I'm not a women and they are obviously wired differently, many support it. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:55:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, kiddo. Nuance does not matter. Nuance is dead. Taking a measured stance on the issue just allows the left to declare "they are going to take away your right to an abortion". People are motivated by headlines and clickbait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nuance matters. Abortion is not on the ballot. 2nd+ trimester abortion is. Only 37% would outright disagree with this proposal, while a majority (55%) agree with it. And here's a hint - none of that 37% was voting for Trump anyway (including you). https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx No, kiddo. Nuance does not matter. Nuance is dead. Taking a measured stance on the issue just allows the left to declare "they are going to take away your right to an abortion". People are motivated by headlines and clickbait. Lol. They were already saying that, so I guess this doesn't actually matter at all. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 4:56:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. They were already saying that, so I guess this doesn't actually matter at all. Ask Virginia or Ohio what happened last year. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:03:41 PM EDT
[#25]
he truly is an idiot
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:05:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing Trump should say about abortion is "it's a state-level issue". From what I heard on the radio he said just that. But I could be wrong |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:08:12 PM EDT
[#27]
For now leave it for each state to decide.
Not a battle to pick at this time. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:08:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask Virginia or Ohio what happened last year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol. They were already saying that, so I guess this doesn't actually matter at all. Ask Virginia or Ohio what happened last year. That more Dems came to the polls? That's what happens when you are a growing suburb of DC or put Marijuana on the ballot. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 5:20:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Abortion loses elections for Republicans. Its that simple.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 6:50:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, kiddo. Nuance does not matter. Nuance is dead. Taking a measured stance on the issue just allows the left to declare “they are going to take away your right to an abortion”. People are motivated by headlines and clickbait. except they were already saying that |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 6:56:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That more Dems came to the polls? That's what happens when you are a growing suburb of DC or put Marijuana on the ballot. You could have just said you didn’t pay attention to what happened in Virginia and Ohio last year. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:05:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: there's pretty much never a medical reason where it's actually necessary to kill the unborn person. Sure removing them from their mother to save her life may result in their death but that is not the intentional killing with malice and forethought of a human being (murder). I am not sure where someone would have been raped and not be sure about an abortion till after 15 weeks. If 15 weeks is the standard then hand out plan b when they do the forensic rape kit. I guess maybe if you were held captive for 3 months after the rape there may be some argument there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 15 weeks is actually popular positioning but you also have to make exceptions for rape and medical emergency where the fetus will not be viable and there is high risk for the mother. Which shouldn't be an issue considering how rare those situations are. What matters more than anything is how you sell a 15 week ban. If you call it that it will be used as a negative against you. If you frame it as federally protecting first trimester choice you can win with it. Words matter a fuck ton in these situations because the corporate media uses clips out of context and most people don't look past that. Trump is an idiot with language though so he'll probably fuck this up somehow. That said. It will be exciting to see all pro life trump cult members find ways to justify changing their mind on first trimester abortion . Lol there's pretty much never a medical reason where it's actually necessary to kill the unborn person. Sure removing them from their mother to save her life may result in their death but that is not the intentional killing with malice and forethought of a human being (murder). I am not sure where someone would have been raped and not be sure about an abortion till after 15 weeks. If 15 weeks is the standard then hand out plan b when they do the forensic rape kit. I guess maybe if you were held captive for 3 months after the rape there may be some argument there. Yes. Sex trafficking victims. Also girls being abused in their own home by their father, uncle, brother. Pregnancy might go unnoticed until the start of the school year. Or religious sect members with limited contact with the outside world. Their first opportunity to report their abuse may be after they’ve been pregnant 15-weeks |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:06:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nuance matters. Abortion is not on the ballot. 2nd+ trimester abortion is. Only 37% would outright disagree with this proposal, while a majority (55%) agree with it. And here's a hint - none of that 37% was voting for Trump anyway (including you). https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So the folks you know that feel that way are going to vote for Biden instead of Trump?? Or simply not participate in politics for the time being. Believe it or not, there are right leaning individuals who become single issue voters when abortion is on the ballot. Nuance matters. Abortion is not on the ballot. 2nd+ trimester abortion is. Only 37% would outright disagree with this proposal, while a majority (55%) agree with it. And here's a hint - none of that 37% was voting for Trump anyway (including you). https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx They see it like we see gun bans. A slippery slope to more restrictions |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:09:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and weed are stupid hills to die on. I’m not in favor of abortion. But it has its place, especially considering it’s mostly democrats getting them. Why are we stacking the deck against our own interests? They’re still gonna get abortions. Just like gay guys are still gonna have sex with each other, legally married or not. You don’t like abortion? Don’t get one. They don’t like guns? Don’t buy one. Freedom goes both ways. Freedom is not killing innocent babies or other 3rd parties. Don't like robbery, rape, murder don't do it. Sounds just as silly. That said I do agree it may not have been the best thing for Trump to say right now. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:09:52 PM EDT
[#35]
So, four more years of Biden it is. Got it.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:10:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Retarded
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:11:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and weed are stupid hills to die on. I'm not in favor of abortion. But it has its place, especially considering it's mostly democrats getting them. Why are we stacking the deck against our own interests? They're still gonna get abortions. Just like gay guys are still gonna have sex with each other, legally married or not. You don't like abortion? Don't get one. They don't like guns? Don't buy one. Freedom goes both ways. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:11:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Whores are going to be maaaadddd.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:14:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know whether this is going to work out or not. 15 weeks w/strong protections for the mother's life and edge cases is the optimal political position IMO, but I don't see it benefitting Trump particularly. The issue is already part of the election though, Trump isn't going to be able to avoid taking a position when red states are going after IVF and such. Rape/incest victims, especially minors, don't always report to authorities immediately. Anyone who's worked in a related field long enough will run into it. I quit working as an EMT because I didn't want any more of that stuff in my head. The problem with nuance is that knuckleheads on both sides will only hear the parts they find disagreeable. Some extremists on both sides may shout down any leeway at all. Especially on the Christian National front - they beleive they are fighting a war against evil and that they will get to share a robe with Jesus if they get all abortion outlawed, period. === Trump also said “you have to have exceptions” in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is threatened, claiming he believes in the same exceptions as Ronald Reagan—a comparison he has drawn in the past. https://www.forbes.com/sites/caileygleeson/2024/03/20/trump-signals-support-for-15-week-abortion-ban-but-he-hasnt-always-thought-this-way/ |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:18:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They see it like we see gun bans. A slippery slope to more restrictions |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:22:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could have just said you didn't pay attention to what happened in Virginia and Ohio last year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That more Dems came to the polls? That's what happens when you are a growing suburb of DC or put Marijuana on the ballot. You could have just said you didn't pay attention to what happened in Virginia and Ohio last year. I pay plenty of attention. I just don't write down the democrat talking points and hit the Internet like you. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:30:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I pay plenty of attention. I just don't write down the democrat talking points and hit the Internet like you. Yes. Inconvenient facts = democrat talking points. Welcome to Trumplandia. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:41:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Life is always a winning position
Only dirt bags like abortions |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:43:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Murderer’s go to Hell
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:44:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Call it genocide and see the people side with Stalin and Mao.
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:47:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a state issue. Trump is allowed his opinion just like everyone else. My opinion is that abortion is murder. I don’t care what others the Mk about my opinion. He is entitled to his opinion. I also think there should be national ban on performing gender reassignment surgery on minors. Another opinion Right on. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 9:12:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Inconvenient facts = democrat talking points. Welcome to Trumplandia. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I pay plenty of attention. I just don't write down the democrat talking points and hit the Internet like you. Yes. Inconvenient facts = democrat talking points. Welcome to Trumplandia. Please, enlighten me with some facts. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 9:57:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good! This will shore up some votes he may have lost with the evangelical crowd by being himself lol. The pro abortion nut jobs were never voting for him in the first place and were likely to come out in full force anyway. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:02:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its a stupid issue to touch, not because the 15 week idea is particularly insane, but because every backwoods republican that has opened their mouth about extending abortion bans to Plan B, IUDs, and sundry other things provides quotes for attack ad fodder. The 25% of women that have or will have an abortion in their lives isn't the big issue. Its the other 75%, which virtually all want birth control legal that can be manipulated to believing that Republicans, if they had the power, would restrict birth control. This is probably the first smart thing he has done in his campaign so far. Choosing populist position on the issue democrats has hoped to beat him over the head with is smart politics |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 11:32:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please, enlighten me with some facts. In 2020, Ohio went solidly Republican 53% to 45%. In the 2023 special election, Issue 1 was on the ballot to add an amendment to the state constitution enshrining the right to abortion. It passed with 57% support. In 2019 Ohio passed and signed into law a near total abortion ban, which had been put on hold due to legal challenges. Those legal challenges were about to expire. Like I said, countless right leaning voters care about having access to abortions. And it becomes a single issue for them, when that is threatened. |
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