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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:04:58 PM EDT
[#1]
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In the USAF, apparently you don't only get to choose your job, you choose the aircraft, then you choose what kind of war you want to fight. If only the enemy would cooperate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are we even discussing buying this POS? Every war isnt going to be against medieval tribesman and even they can control the low Alts with decent manpads and AA barrels. Those are the kind of wars you project for. I'd feel better with a B1 or B52 zipping around with about 40 2,000 lb GPS or Lazer guided's falling on top of whomever. It's always nice to hear the USAF take on things. That this war never mattered anyway. In the USAF, apparently you don't only get to choose your job, you choose the aircraft, then you choose what kind of war you want to fight. If only the enemy would cooperate. I look forward to @CFII coming in and saying that the Army is the same in their choice of airframes. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:05:53 PM EDT
[#2]
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42% of the class of 2016 got manned aircraft pilot slots. So 58% rather than 87. But let's not let facts interrupt your lack of a point Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why bother giving them a choice? There are plenty of people who would agree to become fighter pilots as a condition for employment. your wrong, we cannot fill the slots If you want a 200 meg PPT on it I have it. no one wants to do it despite what you hear on arf I live a few miles from the Air Force Academy, and I deal with cadets regularly. 99% of them want to be pilots. 87% are forced to do something else. All you are telling us, is that the Air Force personnel management is just as fucked up and retarded as their C2 concepts, CAS support and work ethic. There are jobs where we need to beg people to stay in the military for 20 years, then there are pilots. 42% of the class of 2016 got manned aircraft pilot slots. So 58% rather than 87. But let's not let facts interrupt your lack of a point 57% of the Cadets wanted to be pilots, and were told no. But the Airforce can't figure out how to get enough pilots. 
What a bunch of assclowns. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:08:28 PM EDT
[#3]
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57% of the Cadets wanted to be pilots, and were told no. But the Airforce can't figure out how to get enough pilots.
What a bunch of assclowns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why bother giving them a choice? There are plenty of people who would agree to become fighter pilots as a condition for employment. your wrong, we cannot fill the slots If you want a 200 meg PPT on it I have it. no one wants to do it despite what you hear on arf I live a few miles from the Air Force Academy, and I deal with cadets regularly. 99% of them want to be pilots. 87% are forced to do something else. All you are telling us, is that the Air Force personnel management is just as fucked up and retarded as their C2 concepts, CAS support and work ethic. There are jobs where we need to beg people to stay in the military for 20 years, then there are pilots. 42% of the class of 2016 got manned aircraft pilot slots. So 58% rather than 87. But let's not let facts interrupt your lack of a point 57% of the Cadets wanted to be pilots, and were told no. But the Airforce can't figure out how to get enough pilots.
What a bunch of assclowns. It's almost like 100% of Air Force officers aren't pilots. 
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:09:00 PM EDT
[#4]
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It's always nice to hear the USAF take on things. That this war never mattered anyway. Right. Who said that? Oh and quit with the whining. An aircraft that isnt survivable isnt worth anything to anyone. An aircraft lacking sensors in a sensor fused military isnt worth anything to anyone. If you think Afshitistan is bad just wait until you hit the beach in Iran, Korea, or Taiwan, watching these WW2 prop driven POS getting blown out of the sky like mosquitos. Even far worse then not having CAS is not having air superiority. Thats the prime mission of USAF and without it you ground/pud pounders get to be the video stars on Live Leak. Screw the costs. Our troops deserves the best CAS money can buy which means not shopping at the CAS Wallymart. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:12:46 PM EDT
[#5]
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Right. Who said that? Oh and quit with the whining. An aircraft that isnt survivable isnt worth anything to anyone. An aircraft lacking sensors in a sensor fused military isnt worth anything to anyone. If you think Afshitistan is bad just wait until you hit the beach in Iran, Korea, or Taiwan, watching these WW2 prop driven POS getting blown out of the sky like mosquitos. Even far worse then not having CAS is not having air superiority. Thats the prime mission of USAF and without it you ground/pud pounders get to be the video stars on Live Leak. Screw the costs. Our troops deserves the best CAS money can buy which means not shopping at the CAS Wallymart. Your customer service isn't very good. You haven't listened to a word that anyone has said. LAAR wouldn't work in MCO. So don't deploy them to MCO. There is plenty of work for an LIC oriented AVN unit. CAS in MCO is overrated. We have thousands of tubes and launchers for that. Interdiction is critical. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:13:33 PM EDT
[#6]
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Air Force would have to bring warrant ranks back, though. Are there even any left in existence, even in the reserves? No. The last one retired circa 1982. I think he was appointed in 1959. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:14:33 PM EDT
[#7]
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Right. Who said that? Oh and quit with the whining. An aircraft that isnt survivable isnt worth anything to anyone. An aircraft lacking sensors in a sensor fused military isnt worth anything to anyone. If you think Afshitistan is bad just wait until you hit the beach in Iran, Korea, or Taiwan, watching these WW2 prop driven POS getting blown out of the sky like mosquitos. Even far worse then not having CAS is not having air superiority. Thats the prime mission of USAF and without it you ground/pud pounders get to be the video stars on Live Leak. Screw the costs. Our troops deserves the best CAS money can buy which means not shopping at the CAS Wallymart. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's always nice to hear the USAF take on things. That this war never mattered anyway. Right. Who said that? Oh and quit with the whining. An aircraft that isnt survivable isnt worth anything to anyone. An aircraft lacking sensors in a sensor fused military isnt worth anything to anyone. If you think Afshitistan is bad just wait until you hit the beach in Iran, Korea, or Taiwan, watching these WW2 prop driven POS getting blown out of the sky like mosquitos. Even far worse then not having CAS is not having air superiority. Thats the prime mission of USAF and without it you ground/pud pounders get to be the video stars on Live Leak. Screw the costs. Our troops deserves the best CAS money can buy which means not shopping at the CAS Wallymart. What if I told you that a LAAR would be better at CAS than anything in the current inventory, except AC-130? What if a I told you that airborne sensors are exceptionally over-rated, easily deceived, often defeated, and 87% of the time worthless to the man fighting in the ground? What if I told you that 87% of everything the Airforce taught you about warfare is either feel good propaganda, or an outright lie? |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:21:47 PM EDT
[#8]
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Give me the authority, a staff, a budget and I would make it happen in less than 4 years. I could easily establish a tactical air support unit. I wouldn't need a single active Air Force pilot to do it, nor would I require the current Air Force pilot training program. Make the Airforce Great Again aka MAGA. First step, avoid the sorry excuse of crybabies masquerading as a military service. Wanted: Men who want to kill the enemy from the air. Crybabies, Slack jawed, zipper suited, faggots, who think they are special and want to masterbate to pictures of stealth aircraft, need not apply. Lol. Keep going, you are really outing yourself. This is like watching one of those SJW protest videos where someone who has no clue what they are talking about go on and on digging themselves deeper. Btw, you should really let the marines know how to do cas while you are at it, though we use the same systems and procedures. Oh wait. The air force somehow infiltrated the marines like they did the army and prevented them from operating their aircraft as they wish. For a bunch of slack jaws, the air force apparently doesnt have much trouble imposing their will on the toughest soldiers and marines in the world. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:27:32 PM EDT
[#9]
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We cannot even train enough to keep up with the even smaller pool of jets, no one wants to do it. We have open slots all the time, its not about just shitting bodies to fill slots, we cannot get anyone to do it. Only idiots say "just have enlisted fly" Its a false argument to cover the fact they are clueless on what it takes to generate a competant pilot fine put them in there and have them start dropping bombs/shooting around you with the basic experience. You mean the artificial constraints that all the services put on source of aviators in order to artificially inflate the value of said aviators? Because, you could commission a 2000 hour ATP with a jet type as a permanent senior O3 and have a line around the block. And you could put that guy in a lift or tank unit in less than 6 months. There is no pilot shortage. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:36:34 PM EDT
[#10]
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your wrong, we cannot fill the slots If you want a 200 meg PPT on it I have it. no one wants to do it despite what you hear on arf Meanwhile there are usually multiple applicants for every ANG/AFRES UPT slot... |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:38:52 PM EDT
[#11]
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2005-2007 the CJSOAC CDR refused to allow the 130 crews to fly during the day in Iraq. Wouldn't assume the risk. That's a fact. Would you like to guess which service had a random O6 laying around to fulfill that slot? Meanwhile, C-23s were and were the CJSOTF lift of choice. For a service that procured MC-130s for that very mission, that's a truck full of WTF. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:42:58 PM EDT
[#12]
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Meanwhile there are usually multiple applicants for every ANG/AFRES UPT slot... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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your wrong, we cannot fill the slots If you want a 200 meg PPT on it I have it. no one wants to do it despite what you hear on arf Meanwhile there are usually multiple applicants for every ANG/AFRES UPT slot... We recently hired a guy off the street with no military experience because we had so few applicants. And even then there is a lifestyle difference between actives and reserves. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:48:01 PM EDT
[#13]
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We recently hired a guy off the street with no military experience because we had so few applicants. And even then there is a lifestyle difference between actives and reserves. Just for my own edification, find out what his quals were. If you need more applicants, do what everyone else does...expand your pool. Source differently. I'd drop an IST packet tomorrow to fly for a great ANG unit like Lincoln or St. Joe. But I don't qualify. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:51:58 PM EDT
[#14]
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Just for my own edification, find out what his quals were. If you need more applicants, do what everyone else does...expand your pool. Source differently. I'd drop an IST packet tomorrow to fly for a great ANG unit like Lincoln or St. Joe. But I don't qualify. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We recently hired a guy off the street with no military experience because we had so few applicants. And even then there is a lifestyle difference between actives and reserves. Just for my own edification, find out what his quals were. If you need more applicants, do what everyone else does...expand your pool. Source differently. I'd drop an IST packet tomorrow to fly for a great ANG unit like Lincoln or St. Joe. But I don't qualify. 
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:52:32 PM EDT
[#15]
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Your customer service isn't very good. You haven't listened to a word that anyone has said. LAAR wouldn't work in MCO. So don't deploy them to MCO. There is plenty of work for an LIC oriented AVN unit. CAS in MCO is overrated. We have thousands of tubes and launchers for that. Interdiction is critical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Right. Who said that? Oh and quit with the whining. An aircraft that isnt survivable isnt worth anything to anyone. An aircraft lacking sensors in a sensor fused military isnt worth anything to anyone. If you think Afshitistan is bad just wait until you hit the beach in Iran, Korea, or Taiwan, watching these WW2 prop driven POS getting blown out of the sky like mosquitos. Even far worse then not having CAS is not having air superiority. Thats the prime mission of USAF and without it you ground/pud pounders get to be the video stars on Live Leak. Screw the costs. Our troops deserves the best CAS money can buy which means not shopping at the CAS Wallymart. Your customer service isn't very good. You haven't listened to a word that anyone has said. LAAR wouldn't work in MCO. So don't deploy them to MCO. There is plenty of work for an LIC oriented AVN unit. CAS in MCO is overrated. We have thousands of tubes and launchers for that. Interdiction is critical. Except LAAR would likely work in MCO with a little thought, planning and willingness to risk pilots. The bottom line is that mentality is only ok when you are talking about Army helicopters and Warrant officers. The zipper suited sun gods can't risk breaking a nail. Despite what they say, not everything needs to be stealth, or designed for air dominance. Do you want to know what would be REALLY hard for an enemy air defense unit? To try to detect fast, high altitude stealth aircraft, with the same systems you have to detect a slow, large RCS, low flying aircraft. But in the Air Force, you get to choose your job (pilot), platform (F35), war (China) and ignore everything else, even real wars, where real people die for over a decade and a half. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:55:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Just on the vague subject,I follow a female Apache pilot on Instagram. She doesn't have a college degree,she's prior service with a GED.
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Posted: 1/23/2017 9:55:40 PM EDT
[#17]
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Beech T6As are already in service with 3 branches as flight trainers, I'd expect these if they go the turbo route http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/beechcraft-at6.jpg RCAF has been using this with great success for training. Fast little friends they are too ! |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:06:02 PM EDT
[#18]
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Just for my own edification, find out what his quals were. If you need more applicants, do what everyone else does...expand your pool. Source differently. I'd drop an IST packet tomorrow to fly for a great ANG unit like Lincoln or St. Joe. But I don't qualify. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We recently hired a guy off the street with no military experience because we had so few applicants. And even then there is a lifestyle difference between actives and reserves. Just for my own edification, find out what his quals were. If you need more applicants, do what everyone else does...expand your pool. Source differently. I'd drop an IST packet tomorrow to fly for a great ANG unit like Lincoln or St. Joe. But I don't qualify. I didn't get my degree before I aged out. My own fault. The guy is a sharp fella with a decent resume. But it was still unheard of to have a non-prior service UPT slot. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:20:02 PM EDT
[#19]
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Either go big with a modernized Skyraider or go with a modernized OV-10 Bronco. No need for jets in this role, and the longer loiter time of prop-driven aircraft is an advantage. The Super Tucano just seems too light to be worth it. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:31:18 PM EDT
[#20]
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have you ever been to AFG??? you are out out lunch Not only have I been there, but I fought there. Not just flown above it. But, like you, when I did fly in Afghanistan, I was in the backseat, too. So I am equally as qualified as you are to talk about being in the backseat of an aircraft while in "combat" |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:32:29 PM EDT
[#21]
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It's almost like the Army already has a mission profile where they support forward operating aircraft from rapidly constructed logistical centers. They even have a term for it. what he is really saying is that the AF won't work in austere environments. which is true. which is why, as I stated initially, this is a wasted platform for the AF. They are incapable of using it properly. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:33:49 PM EDT
[#22]
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Using air and land power together forces the enemy to make hard choices. He can stay in one place and be hammered from the ground or he can move and be hammered from the air. Artillery is useful across the FLOT but once you get more than a few miles in your sensors can't generate the fire missions. That's why interdiction is the most important Air Force tactical mission. AF delivered CAS against moving targets isn't exactly their forte. smashing long abandoned grids they are all about, though. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:36:47 PM EDT
[#23]
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AF delivered CAS against moving targets isn't exactly their forte. smashing long abandoned grids they are all about, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Using air and land power together forces the enemy to make hard choices. He can stay in one place and be hammered from the ground or he can move and be hammered from the air. Artillery is useful across the FLOT but once you get more than a few miles in your sensors can't generate the fire missions. That's why interdiction is the most important Air Force tactical mission. AF delivered CAS against moving targets isn't exactly their forte. smashing long abandoned grids they are all about, though. "Ground commander's intention met" |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:48:37 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:02:25 PM EDT
[#25]
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Right. Who said that? Oh and quit with the whining. An aircraft that isnt survivable isnt worth anything to anyone. An aircraft lacking sensors in a sensor fused military isnt worth anything to anyone. If you think Afshitistan is bad just wait until you hit the beach in Iran, Korea, or Taiwan, watching these WW2 prop driven POS getting blown out of the sky like mosquitos. Even far worse then not having CAS is not having air superiority. Thats the prime mission of USAF and without it you ground/pud pounders get to be the video stars on Live Leak. Screw the costs. Our troops deserves the best CAS money can buy which means not shopping at the CAS Wallymart. 2. Air superiority? Is that why we needed f15s in Kunar? 3. Nothing to to with costs. Quality CAS is slower. Not playing pop-a-grid. Artillery does that faster. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:03:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Even the U.S. Army can't get the light attack/CAS stuff right. The most useful aircraft they possessed during the GWOT was the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Those aircraft and their fearless crews did phenomenal work. They were terrific at over-watch, their mission ready rates far exceeded that of Apache units and just the general manner in which they operated made them ideal for supporting ground units. Yet how does the army reward them for their tremendous efforts? They retire the entire Kiowa fleet and send everyone to Apaches or Blackhawks. The crews of the scout birds were unique and they brought something totally different to the fight than any other group of aviators. It was a complete and total shame the Kiowa fleet was retired without a suitable replacement. And no, the Apache is not a suitable replacement.
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:12:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Am I too late...
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:18:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote Historywhile I love that picture (and, ironically, I hate the Stryker) this thread was always about CAS |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:20:22 PM EDT
[#29]
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Even the U.S. Army can't get the light attack/CAS stuff right. The most useful aircraft they possessed during the GWOT was the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Those aircraft and their fearless crews did phenomenal work. They were terrific at over-watch, their mission ready rates far exceeded that of Apache units and just the general manner in which they operated made them ideal for supporting ground units. Yet how does the army reward them for their tremendous efforts? They retire the entire Kiowa fleet and send everyone to Apaches or Blackhawks. The crews of the scout birds were unique and they brought something totally different to the fight than any other group of aviators. It was a complete and total shame the Kiowa fleet was retired without a suitable replacement. And no, the Apache is not a suitable replacement. If you are looking for an endorsement of the Army from me, look elsewhere. Army, "You can't kill the A-10. Its cheap to fly, troops love it (because troops are as retarded as the GOs that command them) and its purpose built for the mission. Oh, and we are killing the OH-58D even though its cheap to fly, troops love it and its purpose built for the mission." Odierno was so retarded he couldn't even recognize the hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:20:24 PM EDT
[#30]
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Just on the vague subject,I follow a female Apache pilot on Instagram. She doesn't have a college degree,she's prior service with a GED. She will be a 750 hour 777 Captain at UA when she gets out. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:24:19 PM EDT
[#31]
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Even the U.S. Army can't get the light attack/CAS stuff right. The most useful aircraft they possessed during the GWOT was the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Those aircraft and their fearless crews did phenomenal work. They were terrific at over-watch, their mission ready rates far exceeded that of Apache units and just the general manner in which they operated made them ideal for supporting ground units. Yet how does the army reward them for their tremendous efforts? They retire the entire Kiowa fleet and send everyone to Apaches or Blackhawks. The crews of the scout birds were unique and they brought something totally different to the fight than any other group of aviators. It was a complete and total shame the Kiowa fleet was retired without a suitable replacement. And no, the Apache is not a suitable replacement. Yep. Losing Kiowas for a UAV replacement, was far worse for the Army than losing A-10s without a replacement would be. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:26:08 PM EDT
[#32]
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Even the U.S. Army can't get the light attack/CAS stuff right. The most useful aircraft they possessed during the GWOT was the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Those aircraft and their fearless crews did phenomenal work. They were terrific at over-watch, their mission ready rates far exceeded that of Apache units and just the general manner in which they operated made them ideal for supporting ground units. Yet how does the army reward them for their tremendous efforts? They retire the entire Kiowa fleet and send everyone to Apaches or Blackhawks. The crews of the scout birds were unique and they brought something totally different to the fight than any other group of aviators. It was a complete and total shame the Kiowa fleet was retired without a suitable replacement. And no, the Apache is not a suitable replacement. Spent my entire 20s in that bird. God I hope they take off the plastic and send me back in. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:31:13 PM EDT
[#33]
God dammit I love these threads!
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:41:29 PM EDT
[#34]
"It won't work because it doesn't fit into our current operational concept."
That's thinking blue right there. What's truly needed is a shift in thought to work the problem backwards toward a solution. What is the current threat? What are the most efficient TTP's to eliminate or significantly reduce the threat? Do we have the equipment, manpower, and training to effectively employ these TTPs? If not, how do we procure them? Instead we have an organization (multiple actually) that choose a potential threat and focus on it to the detriment of everything else. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:43:33 PM EDT
[#35]
300 low-cost, light-attack fighters translates to 300 low cost, low altitude, snap back together targets. Fighters they are not.
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:50:55 PM EDT
[#36]
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Even the U.S. Army can't get the light attack/CAS stuff right. The most useful aircraft they possessed during the GWOT was the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. Those aircraft and their fearless crews did phenomenal work. They were terrific at over-watch, their mission ready rates far exceeded that of Apache units and just the general manner in which they operated made them ideal for supporting ground units. didn't you know? aerial overwatch doesn't deter attacks every triggerman is a fearless mujahideen, they don't get spooked by a a flying lawnmower with a pod and a gun slung on the side /s what I liked most about having Kiowa pilots overhead is that you were guaranteed someone that wasn't radio-dumb, they spoke really fast and clearly and could indicate proper direction and distance and were always proactively looking for shit freaking night and day compared to trying to get information from some other vehicle in the convoy who could barely key the mic and drawl out what they wanted to say |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:55:09 PM EDT
[#37]
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300 low-cost, light-attack fighters translates to 300 low cost, low altitude, snap back together targets. Fighters they are not. are you saying helicopters are more survivable? |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 11:58:05 PM EDT
[#38]
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300 low-cost, light-attack fighters translates to 300 low cost, low altitude, snap back together targets. Fighters they are not. Who cares, we could have flown the 300 cheap air planes into the ground fighting the actual war going on for the 16 years with little increased risk and much better performance. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 12:03:56 AM EDT
[#39]
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No. The last one retired circa 1982. I think he was appointed in 1959. I met him back then when a general took him on a retirement tour. It was funny to note he had to use model paint for his CWO bars. Meeting the last of the dinosaurs was memorable and a lesson in obsolescence. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 12:21:57 AM EDT
[#40]
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Who cares, we could have flown the 300 cheap air planes into the ground fighting the actual war going on for the 16 years with little increased risk and much better performance. Your fantasy assessment is just that. Your assuming the enemy would be stupid enough to not adjust his tactics and procure some really cheap shoulder fired missiles to shoot down those really cheap aerial targets. You'd have wasted the lives of a lot of pilots, billions of dollars in training, procurement, maintenance, etc. and for what, so some arm chair commandos could have something else to bitch about? No thanks. Stick to your video games. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 12:29:28 AM EDT
[#41]
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Not only have I been there, but I fought there. Not just flown above it. But, like you, when I did fly in Afghanistan, I was in the backseat, too. So I am equally as qualified as you are to talk about being in the backseat of an aircraft while in "combat" Think of all those years of flight pay you missed out on by making the decision you did. Not his fault you chose poorly. You could have been getting paid for riding in the back. I guess the next best thing is acting self righteous and spouting about topics you only know about because you palled around with people smarter than you who sat across the cubicle at some joint billet. Its ok though, this is GD where knowing your subject matter isn't required, you just have to sound like you know what you're talking about to the rest of the mouth breathers- most of which are on the bandwagon in this thread. Nothing like a good ol' GD CAS thread to bring the shit out of the woodwork. Its only Monday too. Can't wait to see what Tuesday brings. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 12:33:39 AM EDT
[#42]
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Would be great if we got Super Tucnos and opened piloting back up to Enlisted Ranks. https://rhk111smilitaryandarmspage.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/a-29_super_tucano_thru_flickr1.jpg https://i1.wp.com/www.defensemedianetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/lr-Super-Tucano.jpg And put Marines in the seat! Keep them away from the AF! |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 12:35:19 AM EDT
[#43]
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Your fantasy assessment is just that. Your assuming the enemy would be stupid enough to not adjust his tactics and procure some really cheap shoulder fired missiles to shoot down those really cheap aerial targets. You'd have wasted the lives of a lot of pilots, billions of dollars in training, procurement, maintenance, etc. and for what, so some arm chair commandos could have something else to bitch about? No thanks. Stick to your video games. Huh, the bullets and IED's I dealt with on daily basis killed and injured my buddies but we still went and did our job, because it's a fucking war and people die, maybe even pilots. There is no way to completely eliminate risk when the enemy has a say, so let's focus on removing the enemy's say permanently. How many man pads have shot down helicopters in Afghanistan in the last 16 years? We have had Kiowa pilots engaging the enemy with m4s at point blank ranges mere yards off the ground, but the Air Force is walking into a massacre if they drop below 500 knots and 5000 feet? Your going to need to explain that one to me. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 12:41:44 AM EDT
[#44]
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Your fantasy assessment is just that. Your assuming the enemy would be stupid enough to not adjust his tactics and procure some really cheap shoulder fired missiles to shoot down those really cheap aerial targets. You'd have wasted the lives of a lot of pilots, billions of dollars in training, procurement, maintenance, etc. and for what, so some arm chair commandos could have something else to bitch about? No thanks. Stick to your video games. But we used those, right? To me, an ignorant civilian, this seems like needed procurement to get the troops on the ground some longer loiter, maybe higher sortie rate?, CAS at helicopter prices. If the AF will cooperate, of course. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 3:03:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your fantasy assessment is just that. Your assuming the enemy would be stupid enough to not adjust his tactics and procure some really cheap shoulder fired missiles to shoot down those really cheap aerial targets. You'd have wasted the lives of a lot of pilots, billions of dollars in training, procurement, maintenance, etc. and for what, so some arm chair commandos could have something else to bitch about? No thanks. Stick to your video games. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who cares, we could have flown the 300 cheap air planes into the ground fighting the actual war going on for the 16 years with little increased risk and much better performance. Your fantasy assessment is just that. Your assuming the enemy would be stupid enough to not adjust his tactics and procure some really cheap shoulder fired missiles to shoot down those really cheap aerial targets. You'd have wasted the lives of a lot of pilots, billions of dollars in training, procurement, maintenance, etc. and for what, so some arm chair commandos could have something else to bitch about? No thanks. Stick to your video games.
So why didn't they do that to shoot down the helicopters that have been raping them for the last 15 years? Or the A-10's? Everyone knows A-10's can't survive anti air systems. God forbid a pilot gets shot at in a war. People could get hurt that way. Good thing the enemy doesn't have any explosives, rockets or guns. Thousands of our troops could have died. I guess it's hard to see from the air, when your very small fleet of overpriced aircraft flies at 20K and spends more time in maintinence, than in the air. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 4:04:30 AM EDT
[#46]
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You know our military uses equipment and vehicles from all over the world, right? Just the Air Force has aircraft from a half dozen countries. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We dont need a fucking tucano its foreign made...
You know our military uses equipment and vehicles from all over the world, right? Just the Air Force has aircraft from a half dozen countries. The Tucanos we are giving to the Afghan AF are being built in FL. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 4:23:50 AM EDT
[#47]
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The Tucanos we are giving to the Afghan AF are being built in FL. 
I was surprised myself to learn how much foreign equipment we use. I'm fine with it though, we don't always have the best solutions. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 4:27:27 AM EDT
[#48]
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AF delivered CAS against moving targets isn't exactly their forte. smashing long abandoned grids they are all about, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Using air and land power together forces the enemy to make hard choices. He can stay in one place and be hammered from the ground or he can move and be hammered from the air. Artillery is useful across the FLOT but once you get more than a few miles in your sensors can't generate the fire missions. That's why interdiction is the most important Air Force tactical mission. AF delivered CAS against moving targets isn't exactly their forte. smashing long abandoned grids they are all about, though.
I've seen plenty of GBU-54s smashing vehicles full of HVTs at 60mph. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 4:30:47 AM EDT
[#49]
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Never understood why we mothball perfectly good aircraft and build new ones for 100x the money to do a job a P51 could. Not saying we don't need the latest and greatest. Airframe hours, safety, training, tooling, etc. And cash grabs, payoffs, corruption, etc. |
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Posted: 1/24/2017 6:01:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Holy shit this thread is awesome.
As for Army airframe selection, it happens after you fly Primary (learning to hover, fly etc), Instruments (self explanitory), and BWS (Low Level nav, vietnam shit). You take a couple of checkrides in each phase, those scores are averaged along with your academic average, and your PT score, and some other shit. This forms an OML. On the day of selection there is a whiteboard with all the available airframes that day (47F, 64D, 64E, UH60M, UH60AL, C12). They call off your name down the OML, and you simply tell them what aircraft you want. After its all done, they put up a slide talking about duty stations, and then you tell them the top 3 you want. You will get whatever the fuck the Army wants to give you, its a joke
Point is, selection is all you. |
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