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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:34:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much do you want to downsize the military by? Fuck, how much do you want? We could cut the civilian bureaucracy that's non-deployable by 20% and the GOFO ranks by 30% alone and have a better military for it. In the meantime, our bases are crumbling, recruiting sucks and readiness blows. But we might get a stalemate out of it. For which we'll pay for more decades. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:35:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no problem going on record that Ukrainians who are willing to fight and die for their freedom are infinitely better people than useless American welfare sponges. I'd gladly trade every Ukrainian bleeding to be free for every useless EBT sponge. You seem to prefer welfare leaches soaking up your tax dollars though, which is entirely your prerogative. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:35:19 PM EDT
[#3]
This is worth monitoring but everyone should bear in mind most of the military pundits are saying they’re waiting until the end of August to evaluate the Ukraine offensive and the Congress doesn’t return till mid September so it’s most like October 1st we’ll have more info on where things are going - for those wanting to know where the rubber meets the road. For those of you not caring about that continue on gents.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:35:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I completely agree. There is an entire safe-space thread on them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hope so. There are a lot of useless "Americans". Interesting you don't agree. Quite progressive of you. There's a safe space thread discussing the benefits of welfare spending on Americans? Link? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:35:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It absolutely is. Much of the aid sent was stuff that was paid for years or even decades ago. It was already paid for, regardless of whether it got sent to Ukraine. Much of that was going to incur an expenditure for replacement no matter if it got sent overseas to Ukraine or not. Literally the only way to reduce that spending would have been to downsize the military. Its been explained at length why this narrative is false. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:37:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a safe space thread discussing the benefits of welfare spending on Americans? Link? People who want more success for other countries then our own. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:37:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Words spoken like a true Ukrainian patriot. You still have time to be a Ukrainian bleeding to be free. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have no problem going on record that Ukrainians who are willing to fight and die for their freedom are infinitely better people than useless American welfare sponges. I'd gladly trade every Ukrainian bleeding to be free for every useless EBT sponge. You seem to prefer welfare leaches soaking up your tax dollars though, which is entirely your prerogative.  |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:38:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another off topic and red herring post It's not progressive. It's American citizen first. It's interesting that you care more about people half way around the world than the people that are your neighbors and live in the same town, city, state, and country that you do. Your colors are showing again.   Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hey, guess how many threads there were raging when it was published in June there was $400 billion in COVID funds fraud (funding signed into law by a Republican)! I'll give you a clue, it's less than 1.  But I'm sure someone can explain the tortured math about how that fraud totaling ~3x our Ukraine expenditure somehow benefits Americans.  Another off topic and red herring post Quoted: I hope so. There are a lot of useless "Americans". Interesting you don't agree. Quite progressive of you. It's not progressive. It's American citizen first. It's interesting that you care more about people half way around the world than the people that are your neighbors and live in the same town, city, state, and country that you do. Your colors are showing again. Quoted: I completely agree. There is an entire safe-space thread on them. My neighbors definitely aren't receiving EBT. Sorry that you have to live where yours are. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:38:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait! Wut? I thought it was built and Mexico paid for it. Tee hee, so clever. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:38:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Words spoken like a true Ukrainian patriot. You still have time to be a Ukrainian bleeding to be free. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have no problem going on record that Ukrainians who are willing to fight and die for their freedom are infinitely better people than useless American welfare sponges. I'd gladly trade every Ukrainian bleeding to be free for every useless EBT sponge. You seem to prefer welfare leaches soaking up your tax dollars though, which is entirely your prerogative. But why? That's what my $900 is for. Until the last Ukrainian, or so I've been told. 
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:39:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Godamn we need to start making a fucking list |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:39:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, a safe space thread of useless Americans. People who want more success for other countries then our own. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's a safe space thread discussing the benefits of welfare spending on Americans? Link? People who want more success for other countries then our own. You surely have examples from this mystery thread, right? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:40:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey look, a red herring argument. How pathetic. EBT benefits American citizens. It keeps food in American citizens mouths. Get out of here with this argument, it's idiotic. Ukraine is not America. Ukranian orcs are not American citizens. GD certainly has changed. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:40:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get some guts and post the name. "Get some guts?" Nice. Tell me about your dangerous public service Ben. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:41:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what I was pointing out. This is just another uKrAiNe sUcKs thread with the same posters spouting the same tired schtick. Not a single person has changed their view about the war by reading one of these threads so why do they keep being posted? Like monkeys at the zoo sucking themselves off and flinging shit at anyone who dares to disagree. Thanks for the informed and civil discussion. With points like that, it's no wonder 80%+ of arfcom is against ukebroism. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:41:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But why? That's what my $900 is for. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:41:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing I will give the Russians credit for, is they are, and always have been, very good at disinformation. The switch in so many conservatives is a real alternate-universe head trip. A country that has spent the last 80 years actively threatening and creating war around the world is getting it's ass handed to it by a country everybody thought would roll over in a few days. Russian war doctrine is straight out of the middle ages. Brutality, rape, murder - it's standard practice. There are dozens of confirmed cases in Bucha where kids 12 years old and younger were raped repeatedly and murdered. The conservatives and republicans that have always stood against this brutality are now ignoring it because FJB!!! If Trump were to suddenly support Ukraine, GD would explode with the sudden switch in sides. If you want an economic argument, the money and gear spent on Ukraine is literally a drop in the bucket compared to cold war spending. There is another cold war ramping up, and it's with China. Leaving Ukraine to be butchered by the Russians would embolden China more than anything else we could do. GD complains about China treating us like their bitch, what do you think they would do if we suddenly acted like Russia's bitch? If you want to make a moral argument against helping Ukraine, you just can't. There's nothing moral about watching the little kid on the playground get abused when you're one of the big kids. Ukraine was strong armed into giving up most of their military with a promise to protect them. We aren't sending our soldiers to die on their battlefields (and we won't). Ukraine doesn't want our soldiers on their battlefields either, just the ammo to fight their own battles. It's a freaking win-win economically and morally. Not sure if serious. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:42:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD certainly has changed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hey look, a red herring argument. How pathetic. EBT benefits American citizens. It keeps food in American citizens mouths. Get out of here with this argument, it's idiotic. Ukraine is not America. Ukranian orcs are not American citizens. GD certainly has changed. You ain't kidding. Modern GD = Pacifist, anti-MIC, pro-EBT, and pro-pedo. 
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:42:33 PM EDT
[#19]
And what does that Pig-Latin say ?
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:43:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you fly a Ukrainian flag in your Avatar? Are you not an American first? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But why? That's what my $900 is for. Man, that Gadsden flag with a little blue sure triggers folks! Completely worth changing it.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:43:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not, this is about payback and hopefully causing their evil nation to fail. How is a nuclear armed version of Somalia in the interest of the US? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:44:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, that Gadsden flag with a little blue sure triggers folks! Completely worth changing it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:44:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia doesnt want good relations, it wants to take territory. Your cowardice on this subject is hilarious. We failed to deter them. We didn't fail to provoke them. Like lots of failures, the only outcome that is certain is more money from the taxpayer. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:45:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My neighbors definitely aren't receiving EBT. Sorry that you have to live where yours are. 2022 data: Ohio SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 11.7% Utah SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 5.1% Yikes. Look, we get it. You care more about Ukrainians than Americans as shown by your comments. Anyways, try to keep on topic. Ukraine has cost each American household $900. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:45:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And where has the EU been in all that time? They’ve seen the threat, knew it was coming and had at least 20 years to prepare, but as always it falls on Uncle Sugar and by extension the American tax payer to foot the bill. With the exception of Poland none of the European countries have done a darn thing to prepare, and that includes Ukraine, who above all others should have been ready. Ukrainians who blew off weeks of US warnings. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:45:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did your taxes go up ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If everything stayed the same did your taxes go up a grand? They are printing money. Did my savings and income lose value over a grand is the question. And yes it certainly has. Did your taxes go up ? Inflation is the hidden tax. The value of the dollar has certainly dropped significantly because of our policies and spending around this war. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:48:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok? zegermanznew made an unkind (and frankly stupid) comment to you... and your response was to lash out at someone completely different. Like you were thinking of him already. Even though he hasn't even posted in this thread or anything. Obsession ain't just a pretentious cologne. Nobody under 60 wears cologne anymore. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:48:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another off topic and red herring post It's not progressive. It's American citizen first. It's interesting that you care more about people half way around the world than the people that are your neighbors and live in the same town, city, state, and country that you do. Your colors are showing again. Don't make the mistake of thinking ukebros care about Ukrainians. Most just like a fantasy of Russian conscripts getting ground up, they aren't all that concerned about Ukrainians going into minefields, having cities leveled, being conscripted etc. Peace isn't even a goal. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:48:39 PM EDT
[#29]
I’m ok with my $900 of the National Debt going to crush Russia.
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:49:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does the pig-latin say ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Man, that Gadsden flag with a little blue sure triggers folks! Completely worth changing it. I have no idea what you're referring to. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:49:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't make the mistake of thinking ukebros care about Ukrainians. Most just like a fantasy of Russian conscripts getting ground up, they aren't all that concerned about Ukrainians going into minefields, having cities leveled, being conscripted etc. Peace isn't even a goal. Every one of them could go to Ukraine tomorrow if they wanted to fight. Yet they don’t. For the fight of our lifetimes. Interesting. Go team go is all this is. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:50:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And, for SOME reason, they’ve suckered a whole lot of Conservatives into wild eyed warmonger mode. I don’t get it. I get it. It ranges from people with familial or marriage links to Ukraine, to the desire of being success approximate. Russia is an adversary and a threat. Their failure IS a positive, though if its worth enabling the Chinese, and costing us billions, a question if its a net positive one. The problem was that anything we did in Ukraine was going to be provocative to the Russians, so it required a requisite level of deterrence that via our actions from 2014-16, and then from 2020, we failed to provide. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:51:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. I want my $900 back (and with the amount I pay it’s likely much more than that). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And you don't think $900 is a cheap price to absolutely destroy the Russian military? Nope. I want my $900 back (and with the amount I pay it’s likely much more than that). Funny, I've checked my Quicken and there's no indication anywhere of a -$900. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:53:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is, the Russian military isn't anywhere close to being destroyed. Even the US military admits it . Unlike Ukraine Russia has a large domestic military industry and they can make their own stuff to replace their losses. And before you say "but muh sanctions!" it's becoming obvious that with the help of the Chinese, Indians, and other countries, they're evading sanctions and getting US-made parts without a problem . So at this point my $900 hasn't bought me anything but a higher national debt and increased chances of a worldwide war. We're at about the 1964 point in the Viet Nam War , where it became obvious the South Vietnamese couldn't cut the mustard but our leaders promised if we just gave more support victory would be around the corner. How much more do you want to spend? Even there, by 1968 the insurgency was destroyed and by 1972, the conventional invasion blunted. Our abandonment of the South Vietnamese at that was the opposite of sunk cost fallacy, where we gave up our massive investment right at the point where there would be ROI. At this point its hard to see an outcome where Ukraine isn't a perpetual resource sump for American dollars, in the most wild probable version of Ukrainian success. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:54:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2022 data: Ohio SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 11.7% Utah SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 5.1% Yikes. Look, we get it. You care more about Ukrainians than Americans as shown by your comments. Anyways, try to keep on topic. Ukraine has cost each American household $900. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My neighbors definitely aren't receiving EBT. Sorry that you have to live where yours are. 2022 data: Ohio SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 11.7% Utah SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 5.1% Yikes. Look, we get it. You care more about Ukrainians than Americans as shown by your comments. Anyways, try to keep on topic. Ukraine has cost each American household $900. Actually... Ukraine has only really cost each American household ~$209, which would be commensurate with the amount of financial aid we've sent. The rest has gone really gone to sourcing new, updated equipment for our military. And yes, I care more about buying our military brand new gear than welfare leaches, as any good Conservative should.  ETA: Some folks really liked posting this in another thread. It does a good job showing how little actual money America has sent Ukraine compared to the rest of the world.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:55:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually... Ukraine has only really cost each American household ~$209, which would be commensurate with the amount of financial aid we've sent. The rest has gone really gone to sourcing new, updated equipment for our military. And yes, I care more about buying our military brand new gear than welfare leaches, as any good Conservative should. How much has went to Ukraine pensions? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:57:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m ok with my $900 of the National Debt going to crush Russia. When is the crushing supposed to start? I guess it needs to be well underway by October, which is why Biden is pushing Zelensky to send more conscripts into minefields. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:58:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m ok with my $900 of the National Debt going to crush Russia. What’s the definition of crushed? What’s the end state? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 10:58:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much has went to Ukraine pensions? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually... Ukraine has only really cost each American household ~$209, which would be commensurate with the amount of financial aid we've sent. The rest has gone really gone to sourcing new, updated equipment for our military. And yes, I care more about buying our military brand new gear than welfare leaches, as any good Conservative should. How much has went to Ukraine pensions? No idea. I'm sure you can find out how much of the ~$26 billion in financial assistance went towards that. Let us know! I'm curious what the cost per household is of that since that's apparently a big sticking point. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:00:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No idea. I'm sure you can find out how much of the ~$26 billion in financial assistance went towards that. Let us know! I'm curious what the cost per household is of that since that's apparently a big sticking point. I figured you already knew that. You certainly seem like you know everything. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:02:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually... Ukraine has only really cost each American household ~$209, which would be commensurate with the amount of financial aid we've sent. The rest has gone really gone to sourcing new, updated equipment for our military. And yes, I care more about buying our military brand new gear than welfare leaches, as any good Conservative should. ETA: Some folks really liked posting this in another thread. It does a good job showing how little actual money America has sent Ukraine compared to the rest of the world. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/bz9uacD_png-2915522.JPG There is no evidence or sourcing of your claims. That graph shows that America has provided an unbelievable amount of money, arms, and cash to fund the entire country of Ukraine including to pay their citizens pensions. You keep making red herring arguments and changing the subject. We get it, you care more about Ukrainians than American citizens as shown by the repeated comments. Your colors are showing again. Please keep it on topic. Ukraine "aid" has cost American households $900 dollars each. America should care about Americans before Ukrainians. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:02:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Inflation is the hidden tax. The value of the dollar has certainly dropped significantly because of our policies and spending around this war. Certainly NOT just this war, but due to simply not living within our means. It would be nice, I suppose if I could wave a magic wand and find the waste/fraud/abuse in the Federal budget and magic that to other priorities, but that's not realistic. Instead, we are stuck with our general federal budget laydown. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:06:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Our budget for 2023 is almost 6 trillion dollars.
113 billion equates to about 6 days of taxation over the year. At least half of that 113 billion is realized in old military equipment. Of that 6 trillion, the majority goes to absolute bullshit. Welfare, fiscally irresponsible horseshit, spending buckets with literally zero return. I'm still fine with this portion of our budget going to the decimation of Russia's military and to their humiliation on the global stage. We all already know the government is ridiculously wasteful with our tax dollars. Let's not make believe the money would be spent in our best interest elsewhere. You all know it would go to transgender basket weaving classes in Pakistan or some other shit. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:06:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2022 data: Ohio SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 11.7% Utah SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 5.1% Yikes. Look, we get it. You care more about Ukrainians than Americans as shown by your comments. Anyways, try to keep on topic. Ukraine has cost each American household $900. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My neighbors definitely aren't receiving EBT. Sorry that you have to live where yours are. 2022 data: Ohio SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 11.7% Utah SNAP benefit rate per 100k Citizens: 5.1% Yikes. Look, we get it. You care more about Ukrainians than Americans as shown by your comments. Anyways, try to keep on topic. Ukraine has cost each American household $900. Did your taxes raise? |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:06:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I figured you already knew that. You certainly seem like you know everything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No idea. I'm sure you can find out how much of the ~$26 billion in financial assistance went towards that. Let us know! I'm curious what the cost per household is of that since that's apparently a big sticking point. I figured you already knew that. You certainly seem like you know everything. Here (first search result) you go! That report did not say how much was spent on pensions, but a USAID spokesperson sent us another USAID report to Congress that indicated $4 billion of budget support for Ukraine was spent on pensions as of Nov. 30, 2022. So, accounting for time passed between February 2022 and November 2022 and the $4 billion reportedly spent on pensions in that time frame, let's round up to $6 billion to now. That means pensions for Ukraine cost each household roughly $47.87, using OP's figures. And that's what the fuss is over?
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:07:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no evidence or sourcing of your claims. That graph shows that America has provided an unbelievable amount of money, arms, and cash to fund the entire country of Ukraine including to pay their citizens pensions. You keep making red herring arguments and changing the subject. We get it, you care more about Ukrainians than American citizens as shown by the repeated comments. Your colors are showing again. Please keep it on topic. Ukraine "aid" has cost American households $900 dollars each. America should care about Americans before Ukrainians. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually... Ukraine has only really cost each American household ~$209, which would be commensurate with the amount of financial aid we've sent. The rest has gone really gone to sourcing new, updated equipment for our military. And yes, I care more about buying our military brand new gear than welfare leaches, as any good Conservative should. ETA: Some folks really liked posting this in another thread. It does a good job showing how little actual money America has sent Ukraine compared to the rest of the world. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/102941/bz9uacD_png-2915522.JPG There is no evidence or sourcing of your claims. That graph shows that America has provided an unbelievable amount of money, arms, and cash to fund the entire country of Ukraine including to pay their citizens pensions. You keep making red herring arguments and changing the subject. We get it, you care more about Ukrainians than American citizens as shown by the repeated comments. Your colors are showing again. Please keep it on topic. Ukraine "aid" has cost American households $900 dollars each. America should care about Americans before Ukrainians. Everyone wants to be the sole world superpower until it's time to do superpower shit. 
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:09:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here (first search result) you go! That report did not say how much was spent on pensions, but a USAID spokesperson sent us another USAID report to Congress that indicated $4 billion of budget support for Ukraine was spent on pensions as of Nov. 30, 2022. So, accounting for time passed between February 2022 and November 2022 and the $4 billion reportedly spent on pensions in that time frame, let's round up to $6 billion to now. That means pensions for Ukraine cost each household roughly $47.87, using OP's figures. And that's what the fuss is over? So I should have to pay $50 for some Ukrainians pension? Wow. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:10:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Here is $60B worth of oil gone. This is related to the sanctions on Russian oil and how this has been absorbed. It won't be much longer.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:10:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So I should have to pay $50 for some Ukrainians pension? Wow. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here (first search result) you go! That report did not say how much was spent on pensions, but a USAID spokesperson sent us another USAID report to Congress that indicated $4 billion of budget support for Ukraine was spent on pensions as of Nov. 30, 2022. So, accounting for time passed between February 2022 and November 2022 and the $4 billion reportedly spent on pensions in that time frame, let's round up to $6 billion to now. That means pensions for Ukraine cost each household roughly $47.87, using OP's figures. And that's what the fuss is over? So I should have to pay $50 for some Ukrainians pension? Wow. Yes. |
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Posted: 8/10/2023 11:11:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone wants to be the sole world superpower until it's time to do superpower shit. What are you doing? Are you doing your part? Tickets to Ukraine can’t be that expensive. |
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