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Posted: 6/2/2015 9:45:02 PM EDT
[#1]
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Maybe, just maybe the news media doesn't have access to all of the paperwork, timeline of events or investigative information to release yet. I don't have all of the information and neither do you but filling in the gaps of fact with your own unsubstantiated ideas doesn't change that you simply don't know. You are being obtuse. No one likes a Terd with sharp edges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. Really? I have yet to see that description in any of the reported information. And, exactly how would the cops have presented information on 250+ people within the span of a few minutes? They were arrested first, then processed. It could not have been otherwise. This is why they are so nervous - they know that there's dozens of skilled lawyers who will eat their lunch and cost the local population millions in payouts. This, Exactly this. They arrested first, set high bond, in order to sort it out later. Civil rights were violated. Maybe, just maybe the news media doesn't have access to all of the paperwork, timeline of events or investigative information to release yet. I don't have all of the information and neither do you but filling in the gaps of fact with your own unsubstantiated ideas doesn't change that you simply don't know. You are being obtuse. No one likes a Terd with sharp edges. Perhaps. Or, perhaps they did just as I indicated, arrest first, process second pretty much like every other department I've seen do. OTOH, it might be possible that there was a plan a-priori to arrest a long list of persons they already had arrest warrants issued for and they were using the occasion at the breastraunt to serve the warrants. I find that highly unlikely, though. I would surmise that the 1983 suit would not have been filed were there not sufficient circumstances to do so, since those suits are not normally like the ambulance-chasing lawsuit varieties with lottery-level payouts and such. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 9:45:31 PM EDT
[#2]
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Where did gene go? Disappeared awfully quick. 
Oh, never mind, looks like his sidecar life partner is picking up the slack. 
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Posted: 6/2/2015 9:49:16 PM EDT
[#3]
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BTW, Brittany Lannen? Smokin' hot, from what I saw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's a nice quote from the attorney that put this up on his site (Looney): At first, Paul Looney, who is representing William and Morgan English, said McLennan County public defenders were involved in circulating the document, but in a later Facebook post, Looney clarified his blame for the incident.
“That entire debacle was orchestrated by McLennan County private attorney Brittany Lannen,” Looney said. “Her behavior will be reported to the State Bar of Texas for investigation this week.” http://kdhnews.com/news/texas/attorneys-waco-shooting-detainees-could-be-legal-liability/article_0bed7304-08e1-11e5-894e-a7ed4c5d990b.html BTW, Brittany Lannen? Smokin' hot, from what I saw. 
Niiiiiiiiice. 
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Posted: 6/2/2015 9:57:14 PM EDT
[#4]
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Here's a nice quote from the attorney that put this up on his site (Looney): At first, Paul Looney, who is representing William and Morgan English, said McLennan County public defenders were involved in circulating the document, but in a later Facebook post, Looney clarified his blame for the incident.
“That entire debacle was orchestrated by McLennan County private attorney Brittany Lannen,” Looney said. “Her behavior will be reported to the State Bar of Texas for investigation this week.” http://kdhnews.com/news/texas/attorneys-waco-shooting-detainees-could-be-legal-liability/article_0bed7304-08e1-11e5-894e-a7ed4c5d990b.html She's really cute, but she may have a problem. BTW, Brittany Lannen? Smokin' hot, from what I saw. http://lannenlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/attorney-valley-mills-tx-the-law-offices-of-brittany-l.-lannen-pllc-attorney-profile-image.jpg Niiiiiiiiice.
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Posted: 6/2/2015 10:02:39 PM EDT
[#5]
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No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 10:23:44 PM EDT
[#6]
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Maybe, just maybe the news media doesn't have access to all of the paperwork, timeline of events or investigative information to release yet. I don't have all of the information and neither do you but filling in the gaps of fact with your own unsubstantiated ideas doesn't change that you simply don't know. You are being obtuse. No one likes a Terd with sharp edges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. Really? I have yet to see that description in any of the reported information. And, exactly how would the cops have presented information on 250+ people within the span of a few minutes? They were arrested first, then processed. It could not have been otherwise. This is why they are so nervous - they know that there's dozens of skilled lawyers who will eat their lunch and cost the local population millions in payouts. This, Exactly this. They arrested first, set high bond, in order to sort it out later. Civil rights were violated. Maybe, just maybe the news media doesn't have access to all of the paperwork, timeline of events or investigative information to release yet. I don't have all of the information and neither do you but filling in the gaps of fact with your own unsubstantiated ideas doesn't change that you simply don't know. You are being obtuse. No one likes a Terd with sharp edges. I offered evidence based on people I know personally. You offered zero evidence except don't believe what you read on the innernetz. Who's being obtuse? What police department in the entire country has the ability to interview 300 people in an afternoon? What court in the entire country is prepared to process 170 people at one time on a Sunday afternoon? Nobody that was arrested that day left that restaurant to go anywhere but jail. They didn't go home and get picked up later after the magistrate hearing. What I KNOW is that people were kept in handcuffs on scene for 14 hours. 170 people arrested at one time on one crime scene in one day. Come on dude, seriously, NO WAY they all got their due process. NO WAY. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 10:36:10 PM EDT
[#7]
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IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. So, the police conducted the investigation, presented the information to a magistrate who issued a warrant. My two friends' bail was set at ONE MILLION dollars because they were involved in organized crime and were dangerous. But then, after two weeks, their bail was reduced to $25,000 and they were released. These three sentences are at odds with each other. Either they were dangerous enough to deserve the high bail or they weren't. If they were that dangerous, why were they let out. If they weren't (and the cops did a thorough investigation), why were they held for A MILLION dollars in the first place? They can't all be true. And neither can you lawdog. The real story is that (at least for my two friends) they were not involved in organized crime at all. They were not in an outlaw 1% club. They were not criminals. They were not involved in an assault. They went to jail anyway with a ridiculous bail that was later lowered. After they sat in jail for two weeks. I'm certain their charges will eventually be dismissed. Because THEY"RE GOOD PEOPLE who got railroaded. You act like arresting 170 people at once who are so dangerous that their bails ALL need to be set at ONE MILLION DOLLARS is some sort of ordinary occurrance. No way anything could go wrong there. Like I said, civil rights HAD to have been violated. NO WAY 170 people got their due process that fast. The reduced bail and letting people out just reinforces that. That and the first civil rights violation lawsuit that has already been filed. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:29:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. No. They weren't arrested and transported to jail until 0900 the following morning. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:32:14 AM EDT
[#9]
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No. They weren't arrested and transported until 0900 the following morning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. No. They weren't arrested and transported until 0900 the following morning. Right. Because they were detained in handcuffs for fourteen hours before they were arrested. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:36:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. Because they were detained in handcuffs for fourteen hours before they were arrested. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. No. They weren't arrested and transported until 0900 the following morning. Right. Because they were detained in handcuffs for fourteen hours before they were arrested. Ask your friends how long they were at the Civic Center in Waco being interviewed and processed. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:45:05 AM EDT
[#11]
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Here's a nice quote from the attorney that put this up on his site (Looney): At first, Paul Looney, who is representing William and Morgan English, said McLennan County public defenders were involved in circulating the document, but in a later Facebook post, Looney clarified his blame for the incident.
“That entire debacle was orchestrated by McLennan County private attorney Brittany Lannen,” Looney said. “Her behavior will be reported to the State Bar of Texas for investigation this week.” http://kdhnews.com/news/texas/attorneys-waco-shooting-detainees-could-be-legal-liability/article_0bed7304-08e1-11e5-894e-a7ed4c5d990b.html BTW, Brittany Lannen? Smokin' hot, from what I saw. http://lannenlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/attorney-valley-mills-tx-the-law-offices-of-brittany-l.-lannen-pllc-attorney-profile-image.jpg Niiiiiiiiice.
Looks like someone is trying to be District Attorney for that shit storm |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:48:16 AM EDT
[#12]
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Ask your friends how long they were at the Civic Center in Waco being processed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one was arrested without a review from a magistrate and warrant issued. The police didn't arrest anyone they conducted the investigation and then presented the information to the magistrate who issued the warrant. You do understand that EVERYONE was interviewed before any arrests were made, right? Internet hysteria is just that, hysteria. IIRC, they had all those folks arrested by the afternoon of the incident. There's no way they interviewed all of them or presented "information to the magistrate" and got arrest warrants for all of them in that time, especially not on a Sunday afternoon. These were likely all probable cause arrests based on the observations of the officers at the scene. No. They weren't arrested and transported until 0900 the following morning. Right. Because they were detained in handcuffs for fourteen hours before they were arrested. Ask your friends how long they were at the Civic Center in Waco being processed. Ask your friends if they were dangerous enough to hold for two weeks on ONE MILLION dollars bail, why was it reduced to $25,000 and why were they let go. Ask your friends why they were arrested in the first place since they're not in nor affiliated with an outlaw club. They sure as shit didn't participate in a gunfight on behalf of one outlaw club against another or against the police. And since they are not members of an outlaw club and don't do outlaw club type stuff, how they be engaged in "organized crime"? These are just three guys in an antique motorcycle enthusiast club who are members of the COCi attending a meeting that got wrapped up in all this mess. State politicians speak at these types of meetings. Why can't you admit the possibility exists that when you arrest 170 people at once that you're bound to get some guys who did nothing wrong? |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:54:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently.
ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:07:02 AM EDT
[#14]
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:11:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. Okay. You got me. Anything repeated first hand by their "club bros." is too solid for me. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:20:07 AM EDT
[#16]
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Okay. You got me. Anything repeated first hand by their "club bros." is too solid for me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. Okay. You got me. Anything repeated first hand by their "club bros." is too solid for me. Lol, there's only six guys in the club. They are just regular guys who build and ride antique choppers from the '40s, '50s, and '60s. I share the same passion. The antique chopper community is tiny compared to the MC world. These are guys who have a passion for 70 year old motorcycles, not running crank or smashing people over the head with padlocks tied to handkerchiefs, lol. If you knew these guys like I do, you would realize who outrageous it is they are lumped in with those outlaw types. It'll all come out in the wash. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:26:17 AM EDT
[#17]
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Lol, there's only six guys in the club. They are just regular guys who build and ride antique choppers from the '40s, '50s, and '60s. I share the same passion. The antique chopper community is tiny compared to the MC world. These are guys who have a passion for 70 year old motorcycles, not running crank or smashing people over the head with padlocks tied to handkerchiefs, lol. If you knew these guys like I do, you would realize who outrageous it is they are lumped in with those outlaw types. It'll all come out in the wash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. Okay. You got me. Anything repeated first hand by their "club bros." is too solid for me. Lol, there's only six guys in the club. They are just regular guys who build and ride antique choppers from the '40s, '50s, and '60s. I share the same passion. The antique chopper community is tiny compared to the MC world. These are guys who have a passion for 70 year old motorcycles, not running crank or smashing people over the head with padlocks tied to handkerchiefs, lol. If you knew these guys like I do, you would realize who outrageous it is they are lumped in with those outlaw types. It'll all come out in the wash. Good luck to your friends, it bodes well that their bails were reduced. There is going to be a lot of pressure to justify as many of the arrests as possible, to limit the fallout. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:32:41 AM EDT
[#18]
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When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. In my personal experience, I too would have branded them an OMG because they wear the diamond "13" patch. Not saying they're bad people, don't get me wrong, just pointing something out. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:34:26 AM EDT
[#19]
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In my personal experience, I too would have branded them an OMG because they wear the diamond "13" patch. Not saying they're bad people, don't get me wrong, just pointing something out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. In my personal experience, I too would have branded them an OMG because they wear the diamond "13" patch. Not saying they're bad people, don't get me wrong, just pointing something out. OMG's wear "1%er" patches. ViseGrip MC is NOT an outlaw club nor is it affiliated with any outlaw clubs. It's not a "farm team" for a larger outlaw club. They are not supporters nor do they wear any support patches for any outlaw clubs. They are not on the fringes of outlaw club lifestyles. The only thing they have in common with outlaw clubs is the fact that they ride motorcycles and that they are members of the Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents. The COCi is a political organization made up mostly of mom and pop riding clubs that concern themselves with motorcycle safety, motorcycle legislation, and motorcyclists' rights. Politicians come and speak at these COCi meetings. The media has made this out to be some sort of outlaw motorcycle gang summit, it wasn't. The COCi has these meetings in every region of the country on a regular basis without mass murder and without having 170 people arrested. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:36:00 AM EDT
[#20]
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OMG's wear "1%er" patches. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. In my personal experience, I too would have branded them an OMG because they wear the diamond "13" patch. Not saying they're bad people, don't get me wrong, just pointing something out. OMG's wear "1%er" patches. The "13" signifies the club is a 1% support club. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:51:00 AM EDT
[#21]
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The "13" signifies the club is a 1% support club. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well Terd, I will admit to that PD arresting the wrong people when you admit that 90% of what you posted in this thread is raw bullshit based upon bad second hand info. I will wait patiently. ETA: My info comes from my second cousin who is dating the ex-wife of a Waco cop. He tells her everything when he picks up their kids. Which makes my info as accurate as yours. When the charges are dismissed against the three ViseGrip guys, you can apologize. My info comes first hand from their club bros. Oh, and did I mention I know two of those three guys arrested personally? Not the type of guys to be involved in gunfights. They are NOT in an outlaw club and they DON'T do outlaw stuff. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Everything will come out in the wash. In my personal experience, I too would have branded them an OMG because they wear the diamond "13" patch. Not saying they're bad people, don't get me wrong, just pointing something out. OMG's wear "1%er" patches. The "13" signifies the club is a 1% support club. You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? ***ETA*** Clubs that support outlaw clubs wear patches that have the name, and/or initials, and/or colors of the club they support. There are no outlaw clubs in Texas with the colors of black and white. There are no outlaw clubs anywhere with the number 13 or the initials AC or M (which is what 13 would stand for). For instance, Hells Angels supporters will have "81" or "support 81" all over their vests. The 8 standing for H and the 1 for A. The support club doesn't choose what kind of patch to wear for the club they support. That is dictated by the larger club, and there is a uniformity nationwide for support club patches. Bandidos supporters would have patches that are red and gold. There are strict rules and more politics than your local city council in the MC world. I try to stay far away from it when I go to swap meets and bike shows. So you understand where I'm coming from, I just painted my '69 candy red. I want pinstriped flames on it. I can't use white, even though it would be the best looking color combo, because painting your bike red and white in a part of the state a rival club controls is begging for a talking to at the next bike show. For fucks sakes. 
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Posted: 6/3/2015 2:09:51 AM EDT
[#22]
What did I miss? Bikers in the streets again shooting up Waco?
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Posted: 6/3/2015 3:31:09 AM EDT
[#23]
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 5:16:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Say Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:15:22 AM EDT
[#25]
I just had breakfast with 6 Bandidos. One was at the Waco deal. They were the most polite group you could find at an IHOP at 1am. Seriously.
Just finished my food and they came in. I just said hi and they had me come to their table. Seemed like a really good group of guys. They didn't want my strawberry pancakes though. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 8:29:04 AM EDT
[#26]
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Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Some of you uppity civilians need to watch your ass and STFU. Logic, common sense and personal observation are NO substitute for advanced LEO training. It absolutely irrefutable that Waco PD made the haul of the century of the 170 most hard ass, bad news criminals in the country. At a Breastraunt. There is no f*cking way that any of these 170 bad asses were denied due process and all were deserving of a million dollar bond. If charges are later dropped or bond reduced, that's just cause they got bigger fish to fry. If the approved training gets an "innocent" perp a felony arrest record and financial ruin, well tough shit. They were dirty of something. How do I know? Well muh trainin of course. 
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Posted: 6/3/2015 11:51:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of you uppity civilians need to watch your ass and STFU. Logic, common sense and personal observation are NO substitute for advanced LEO training. It absolutely irrefutable that Waco PD made the haul of the century of the 170 most hard ass, bad news criminals in the country. At a Breastraunt. There is no f*cking way that any of these 170 bad asses were denied due process and all were deserving of a million dollar bond. If charges are later dropped or bond reduced, that's just cause they got bigger fish to fry. If the approved training gets an "innocent" perp a felony arrest record and financial ruin, well tough shit. They were dirty of something. How do I know? Well muh trainin of course.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Some of you uppity civilians need to watch your ass and STFU. Logic, common sense and personal observation are NO substitute for advanced LEO training. It absolutely irrefutable that Waco PD made the haul of the century of the 170 most hard ass, bad news criminals in the country. At a Breastraunt. There is no f*cking way that any of these 170 bad asses were denied due process and all were deserving of a million dollar bond. If charges are later dropped or bond reduced, that's just cause they got bigger fish to fry. If the approved training gets an "innocent" perp a felony arrest record and financial ruin, well tough shit. They were dirty of something. How do I know? Well muh trainin of course.
Lol, for realz. Satan worshipping biker gang. I have hard time believing I'm not being trolled. Except that I have a bunch of cops for friends that are switched on homicide detectives, undercover narcs, swat, and inner city gang intel that tell me of the moronic seminars they have had to sit through. It would be funny if these people didn't have the power to ruin your life because of what you look like and what they were told at the last gang "training" class. The same kinds of training classes that will tell you drug users still use the terms "H" or "scag" or "Horse" for heroin and "a lid of grass" or "Maui Wowie" for weed. It's like a Just Say No D.A.R.E. presentation from 1983. In this example, the cop insinuates that a vintage chopper riding club are satan worshipers, presumably because of the image of a goat on their vest. This information coming from a well known and vetted "undercover" who has spent years in the life getting to know the lifestyle and politics of outlaw motorcycle gangs. Meanwhile in the real world, one of the founders of the club is a goat farmer who just loves raising goats. It is beyond ridiculous the arrogance and ignorance of SOME cops. It would be funny if it weren't so SCARY. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 11:57:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Page links to a "press release" on a lawyers facebook page. Facebook page seems legit, more or less.
This whole thing is a clusterfuck. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:06:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you understand where I'm coming from, I just painted my '69 candy red. I want pinstriped flames on it. I can't use white, even though it would be the best looking color combo, because painting your bike red and white in a part of the state a rival club controls is begging for a talking to at the next bike show. For fucks sakes. <a href="http://s12.photobucket.com/user/1313terdferguson1313/media/6e9c9d79-5a40-4fb6-9056-02ecacb460e6_zpstgsytnkv.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/1313terdferguson1313/6e9c9d79-5a40-4fb6-9056-02ecacb460e6_zpstgsytnkv.jpg</a> Nice! What are you gonna run for a front end? Thanks for the updates-I think the mass arrests were bullshit,and do think plenty of civil rights were violated.Keep us updated. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:21:16 PM EDT
[#31]
The report of "1000" weapons pointed to a loss of credibility.
And I can see arresting 170 people to sort the situation out, given time to properly interview and figure out just what in the blue fuck happened, but I don't believe in any way that all 170 were guilty of anything. I expected this to go a couple of days and see 100 or so released or charged with disorderly conduct, time served and let go, or dropped charges, or let go on a $500 bond of something. But not 2 or 3 weeks of all 170 at a million each. It's quickly going from "hooray for the police" to "you guys better sort out your shit soon". |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:25:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, for realz. Satan worshipping biker gang. I have hard time believing I'm not being trolled. Except that I have a bunch of cops for friends that are switched on homicide detectives, undercover narcs, swat, and inner city gang intel that tell me of the moronic seminars they have had to sit through. It would be funny if these people didn't have the power to ruin your life because of what you look like and what they were told at the last gang "training" class. The same kinds of training classes that will tell you drug users still use the terms "H" or "scag" or "Horse" for heroin and "a lid of grass" or "Maui Wowie" for weed. It's like a Just Say No D.A.R.E. presentation from 1983. In this example, the cop insinuates that a vintage chopper riding club are satan worshipers, presumably because of the image of a goat on their vest. This information coming from a well known and vetted "undercover" who has spent years in the life getting to know the lifestyle and politics of outlaw motorcycle gangs. Meanwhile in the real world, one of the founders of the club is a goat farmer who just loves raising goats. It is beyond ridiculous the arrogance and ignorance of SOME cops. It would be funny if it weren't so SCARY. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Some of you uppity civilians need to watch your ass and STFU. Logic, common sense and personal observation are NO substitute for advanced LEO training. It absolutely irrefutable that Waco PD made the haul of the century of the 170 most hard ass, bad news criminals in the country. At a Breastraunt. There is no f*cking way that any of these 170 bad asses were denied due process and all were deserving of a million dollar bond. If charges are later dropped or bond reduced, that's just cause they got bigger fish to fry. If the approved training gets an "innocent" perp a felony arrest record and financial ruin, well tough shit. They were dirty of something. How do I know? Well muh trainin of course.
Lol, for realz. Satan worshipping biker gang. I have hard time believing I'm not being trolled. Except that I have a bunch of cops for friends that are switched on homicide detectives, undercover narcs, swat, and inner city gang intel that tell me of the moronic seminars they have had to sit through. It would be funny if these people didn't have the power to ruin your life because of what you look like and what they were told at the last gang "training" class. The same kinds of training classes that will tell you drug users still use the terms "H" or "scag" or "Horse" for heroin and "a lid of grass" or "Maui Wowie" for weed. It's like a Just Say No D.A.R.E. presentation from 1983. In this example, the cop insinuates that a vintage chopper riding club are satan worshipers, presumably because of the image of a goat on their vest. This information coming from a well known and vetted "undercover" who has spent years in the life getting to know the lifestyle and politics of outlaw motorcycle gangs. Meanwhile in the real world, one of the founders of the club is a goat farmer who just loves raising goats. It is beyond ridiculous the arrogance and ignorance of SOME cops. It would be funny if it weren't so SCARY. Oh man....hey, not saying youre 100% percent right, but you're not far off. So, youre saying I shouldnt believe everything that the agent who dresses like axel rose tells us, so what about use of the term 'Old Lady'....don't only them there outlaw motor sickle guys use that? |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:30:47 PM EDT
[#33]
LOL, fuck biker gangs.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 12:43:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. I am not trying to get into a argument with you but sometimes symbols are used and the true or original meanings are not heeded or known. For example I went to the ViceGrips website and they have a goat head on their vests. The goat head is traditionally to some a symbol of Satan (such as "The Goat of Mendez"). Also they have the number thirteen in a diamond on their vest. That is known or associated to some for the letter M which can be used for a few things. "13, Usually warn on a diamond shaped patch, the same size as the 1% diamond patch. The letter M is the 13th letter of the alphabet. Some bikers (or even street gangs) will use the ''M' as the moniker for the word MURDER. Others use it to stand for Motorcycle or Marijuana. It depends on the wearer to decide what it means to him. If it is displayed inside a tear-drop shaped patch, It's fairly safe to assume the wearer is using it as the 'Murder' moniker" link The ViceGrips already have a MC patch on the vest so to some the 13/M could mean the "murder" part. This is all speculation and just a basic search of meanings of symbols. I personally wouldn't expect all people LEO or even MC groups to know what all symbols mean especially if someone decides to use it for another reason. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:04:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Then how do you explain the picture at the bottom of their website? VISE GRIP website. Here it is, for your convenience: 
Don't get offended here. I'm asking some tough questions because these questions are necessary to our discussion. You claim the Vise Grips are not an OMG and are just a bunch of guys who do fund drives and shit. Their website and their patches suggest differently. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:09:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not trying to get into a argument with you but sometimes symbols are used and the true or original meanings are not heeded or known. For example I went to the ViceGrips website and they have a goat head on their vests. The goat head is traditionally to some a symbol of Satan (such as "The Goat of Mendez"). Also they have the number thirteen in a diamond on their vest. That is known or associated to some for the letter M which can be used for a few things. "13, Usually warn on a diamond shaped patch, the same size as the 1% diamond patch. The letter M is the 13th letter of the alphabet. Some bikers (or even street gangs) will use the ''M' as the moniker for the word MURDER. Others use it to stand for Motorcycle or Marijuana. It depends on the wearer to decide what it means to him. If it is displayed inside a tear-drop shaped patch, It's fairly safe to assume the wearer is using it as the 'Murder' moniker" link The ViceGrips already have a MC patch on the vest so to some the 13/M could mean the "murder" part. This is all speculation and just a basic search of meanings of symbols. I personally wouldn't expect all people LEO or even MC groups to know what all symbols mean especially if someone decides to use it for another reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. I am not trying to get into a argument with you but sometimes symbols are used and the true or original meanings are not heeded or known. For example I went to the ViceGrips website and they have a goat head on their vests. The goat head is traditionally to some a symbol of Satan (such as "The Goat of Mendez"). Also they have the number thirteen in a diamond on their vest. That is known or associated to some for the letter M which can be used for a few things. "13, Usually warn on a diamond shaped patch, the same size as the 1% diamond patch. The letter M is the 13th letter of the alphabet. Some bikers (or even street gangs) will use the ''M' as the moniker for the word MURDER. Others use it to stand for Motorcycle or Marijuana. It depends on the wearer to decide what it means to him. If it is displayed inside a tear-drop shaped patch, It's fairly safe to assume the wearer is using it as the 'Murder' moniker" link The ViceGrips already have a MC patch on the vest so to some the 13/M could mean the "murder" part. This is all speculation and just a basic search of meanings of symbols. I personally wouldn't expect all people LEO or even MC groups to know what all symbols mean especially if someone decides to use it for another reason. You are correct in most of what you have posted. The 13 on the ViseGrip vest stands for M for Motorcycle. I was just waiting for the cop to tell me it was another indicator of their satan worship. Now, as to the last sentence of your post... You can best believe that anybody in a Riding Club, Motorcyle Club, or outlaw 1%er Motorcycle Club ABSOLUTELY know what all the symbols mean. BECAUSE THEY WILL GET CHECKED THE FIRST TIME THEY RUN INTO SOME GUYS WHO TAKE THAT STUFF AS LIFE AND DEATH SERIOUS. Just like all the gang bangers know what all the chicken scratch gang graffiti means and which side you fly your flag and how you fold it and how you lace your shoes and what color your belt is and a million other rules and regs you have to follow when you're in a gang. And a good cop should know what they mean as well, especially if they are using those symbols as evidence that a suspect is involved in "organized crime". For fucks sakes, a cop was told by intel that a club formed by a few friends in order to preserve the history and love of 60 and 70 year old choppers WORSHIPS THE DEVIL. BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GOAT PATCH. BECAUSE ONE OF THE FOUNDERS RAISES GOATS. No argument here, so long as you can see the ignorance of SOME of these so called "gang experts". |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:13:33 PM EDT
[#37]
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Then how do you explain the picture at the bottom of their website? VISE GRIP website. Here it is, for your convenience: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aOGW_A6QsdU/S42QkamXObI/AAAAAAAAAHo/69HjAbdZ3j0/S660/last+supper.jpg Don't get offended here. I'm asking some tough questions because these questions are necessary to our discussion. You claim the Vise Grips are not an OMG and are just a bunch of guys who do fund drives and shit. Their website and their patches suggest differently. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Then how do you explain the picture at the bottom of their website? VISE GRIP website. Here it is, for your convenience: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aOGW_A6QsdU/S42QkamXObI/AAAAAAAAAHo/69HjAbdZ3j0/S660/last+supper.jpg Don't get offended here. I'm asking some tough questions because these questions are necessary to our discussion. You claim the Vise Grips are not an OMG and are just a bunch of guys who do fund drives and shit. Their website and their patches suggest differently. They also like metal music. Just more evidence of their satan worshipping. Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? Nowhere on their website is any outlaw 1%er activity, they DO NOT WEAR an outlaw 1%er patch LIKE EVERY OTHER OUTLAW 1%er GANG. They build old motorcycles to ride and compete in vintage chopper shows. THEY DO NOT WORSHIP THE DEVIL. Jeez, I can't believe I just typed that. Do you also think AC/DC worshipped the devil cause an ablum cover had them with horns? Do you have any idea of what the term "counterculture" means. You are the definition of a "square" with no expertise outside the letter of the law and what you are spoon fed by other squares who have never done anything so outrageous as to have listened to loud music at a party. Your desperate need to say these guys worship the devil reminds me of the hysterical '80s with all the satan worshipping day care child molesting murder cults that turn out never to have existed. Look at it this way, which is easier to believe... 1. Some innocent guys got wrapped up at the wrong place at the wrong time after something terrible happened for no other reason than they were on motorcycles and looked similar to the bad guys from a cop's perspective that has had bad training and bad intel of what makes an outlaw 1%er biker an outlaw 1%er biker. Or... 2. These guys are secret devil worshipping secret hardcore bikers (that don't wear the uniform of ALL THE OTHER HARDCORE OUTLAW BIKERS) who are just as guilty as the bandidos who shot it out with rival gang members and shot it out with the police which is why their bond was eventually lowered and they were released. TAKE A STEP BACK AND THINK FOR JUST A MOMENT. It's 2015 and you're accusing some guys who ride motorbikes and raise goats of being DEVIL WORSHIPERS because of a picture of a goat on their vest and a picture of a metal album cover on their blog. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:29:34 PM EDT
[#38]
If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:50:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different. 
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:57:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different.
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. It's a valid point. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:58:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different.
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. 
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Posted: 6/3/2015 2:16:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different.
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. Thanks.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 2:28:16 PM EDT
[#43]
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Thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different.
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. Thanks. Welcome. 
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Posted: 6/3/2015 5:46:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They also like metal music. Just more evidence of their satan worshipping. Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? Nowhere on their website is any outlaw 1%er activity, they DO NOT WEAR an outlaw 1%er patch LIKE EVERY OTHER OUTLAW 1%er GANG. They build old motorcycles to ride and compete in vintage chopper shows. THEY DO NOT WORSHIP THE DEVIL. Jeez, I can't believe I just typed that. Do you also think AC/DC worshipped the devil cause an ablum cover had them with horns? Do you have any idea of what the term "counterculture" means. You are the definition of a "square" with no expertise outside the letter of the law and what you are spoon fed by other squares who have never done anything so outrageous as to have listened to loud music at a party. Your desperate need to say these guys worship the devil reminds me of the hysterical '80s with all the satan worshipping day care child molesting murder cults that turn out never to have existed. Look at it this way, which is easier to believe... 1. Some innocent guys got wrapped up at the wrong place at the wrong time after something terrible happened for no other reason than they were on motorcycles and looked similar to the bad guys from a cop's perspective that has had bad training and bad intel of what makes an outlaw 1%er biker an outlaw 1%er biker. Or... 2. These guys are secret devil worshipping secret hardcore bikers (that don't wear the uniform of ALL THE OTHER HARDCORE OUTLAW BIKERS) who are just as guilty as the bandidos who shot it out with rival gang members and shot it out with the police which is why their bond was eventually lowered and they were released. TAKE A STEP BACK AND THINK FOR JUST A MOMENT. It's 2015 and you're accusing some guys who ride motorbikes and raise goats of being DEVIL WORSHIPERS because of a picture of a goat on their vest and a picture of a metal album cover on their blog. I'm making unbiased and objective observations based on how they present themselves. If you think getting hostile at me is going to win this discussion, you need to reevaluate your reasons for defending these people. I've been polite to you, and you have responded with insults and hostility. At face value, you are simply grasping at argumentative straws at this point. Did you ever ask them why they chose to put the diamond 13 patch on their jackets? As to the part in red, if you knew the first thing about me you wouldn't think that. But keep insulting me all you want. It is very telling about the validity of your argument. Yes, and do you want to know why I make this argument? Because it shows they present themselves as an outlaw gang, therefore it goes to reason they will be treated as an outlaw gang. Suppose you see a young black man walking down the sidewalk. He walks with a gangster limp, he wears all red, he has a red bandana, and he is throwing gang signs at passing cars. Would you believe this person was most likely a member of the Bloods criminal gang? Of course, and nobody would fault you for that. The same thing happens to bikers. The criminal gangs wear a certain style, like a uniform, so they can tell each other apart. When a non-criminal gang wears this to "pose" as a criminal gang, because it's the lifestyle or the look, it's not the fault of the public when those people are treated as criminals. My advice is to stop looking like a gang, stop acting like a gang, and stop associating like a gang, and you won't be treated like a criminal gang. You say they're just dudes? I call them posers. Everybody wants to be a gangsta until it's time to do gangsta shit, right? |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:02:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then how do you explain the picture at the bottom of their website? VISE GRIP website. Here it is, for your convenience: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aOGW_A6QsdU/S42QkamXObI/AAAAAAAAAHo/69HjAbdZ3j0/S660/last+supper.jpg Don't get offended here. I'm asking some tough questions because these questions are necessary to our discussion. You claim the Vise Grips are not an OMG and are just a bunch of guys who do fund drives and shit. Their website and their patches suggest differently. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have no idea what you're talking about. Where did you learn that? Gangland? Or a law enforcement seminar? Yes, and they get their intel from deep undercover people who live the life for years, get involved in the politics, and have a deeper understanding of the scene than you do. You'll have to excuse me if I believe a vetted and well-known expert over an anonymous internet guy who has an obvious bias. No offense, just how the real world works. ETA: Ask your friends in the Vise Grips why they wear the diamond 13 on their backs. I'm interested to know their reasoning. Also ask if they are Satan worshipers. You know how I know you and your vetted well-known expert have no idea what you're talking about? Because you just asked if they worship satan. Seriously. I have a friend on a local department who attended a law enforcement seminar on motorcycle gangs. The "intel" given was laughable and very outdated. Then how do you explain the picture at the bottom of their website? VISE GRIP website. Here it is, for your convenience: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aOGW_A6QsdU/S42QkamXObI/AAAAAAAAAHo/69HjAbdZ3j0/S660/last+supper.jpg Don't get offended here. I'm asking some tough questions because these questions are necessary to our discussion. You claim the Vise Grips are not an OMG and are just a bunch of guys who do fund drives and shit. Their website and their patches suggest differently. Goat is the sign of the devil. and, Goatboy owns ARF. Making ARF a devil worshiping website. You are a member here so why do you worship the devil? 
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:19:05 PM EDT
[#46]
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Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was black motorcycle gang(s) this thread would be... different.
Note: That's the closest animation on the site for rolling one's eyes. 
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:39:28 PM EDT
[#47]
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Goat is the sign of the devil. and, Goatboy owns ARF. Making ARF a devil worshiping website. You are a member here so why do you worship the devil? You know, to be fair here, ARFCOM doesn't display on its masthead or anywhere, a picture depicting Satan and the Disciples feasting on the heart of Christ. And it's not some "trendy" "counter culture" thing, and I don't give a damn if it's an album cover- it's there as a statement. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:41:37 PM EDT
[#48]
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Goat is the sign of the devil. and, Goatboy owns ARF. Making ARF a devil worshiping website. You are a member here so why do you worship the devil? I sold my soul for hookers and blow. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:49:20 PM EDT
[#49]
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!?
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Posted: 6/3/2015 6:51:19 PM EDT
[#50]
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WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!? Apparently we're all going to hell.
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