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I don't know about this story, but, several years ago one of the notorious local jurisdictions had an incident where a mother took her 8 year old and 11 year old daughters to the park. The kids got into a fight and someone called the police and the police came on scene and arrested the 8 year old for domestic violence and took her in. The mother went to the local news station and reported the arrest. The local station sent a reporter to the police dept. and a Lt. was interviewed outside the police dept. The Lt. said that when they are called to a domestic violence incident, "someone is going to jail." Even an 8 year old child. The reporter then went to the District Attorney's office and an Assistant District Attorney advised that his office had not received a referral from that police dept. for the child's criminal prosecution and he would decline it even if they did. Unfortunately, this police dept. has a long and infamous history. View Quote Sadly they have the same effect as laws, or worse. This man found out the hard way. https://abovethelaw.com/2011/06/man-literally-sets-himself-on-fire-on-the-courthouse-steps/ |
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My union gives me a lawyer for certain things and negotiates our contract. That's it. If I piss the wrong person off, I am gone. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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He thinks the Union is like some all power organization. He clearly doesn't understand that the Union would simply fight for their member. The firing might drag out, but he would ultimately be shitcanned if he was at fault even if a Union member. Since he's at will. He's out the door right then and there. |
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People wanted the State to "Do Something". Well, something was done. People need to be careful what they wish for. And the people don't want to repeal these laws. Hell, Arfcommers outside of Florida wanted us to reward the Republicans that passed these laws by voting them back into office. Shit, I remember when Rick Scott signed SB 7026 into law, folks here badmouthed him. Then they remembered he was running for the Senate. So they told us Floridians to vote for Rick Scott. What message did that send? Republicans can pass Big Government Authoritarian Control and Gun Control and they'll be rewarded with higher offices. View Quote |
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PBA made sure we have an arbitration process to fight IA. We also get legal coverage and they negotiate our contract. Which the last part means nothing but lobby the Legislature since as State LE. The Legislature determines pay, not the agency. View Quote |
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Without bringing race into it...
I am thankful that both the officer & child were both of the same race... There are enough bad narratives in the Media of evil officers arresting (or shooting) poor innocent children of color without another ... |
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And what were we going to get from Bill Nelson? A vote for Trump's impeachment? Lack of judicial confirmation? Fuck Rick Scott but fuck Nelson more. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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People wanted the State to "Do Something". Well, something was done. People need to be careful what they wish for. And the people don't want to repeal these laws. Hell, Arfcommers outside of Florida wanted us to reward the Republicans that passed these laws by voting them back into office. Shit, I remember when Rick Scott signed SB 7026 into law, folks here badmouthed him. Then they remembered he was running for the Senate. So they told us Floridians to vote for Rick Scott. What message did that send? Republicans can pass Big Government Authoritarian Control and Gun Control and they'll be rewarded with higher offices. Look at this legislative session with Galvano's attempts at UBC and the Special Carve Out for CCW at Political Meetings for Lawmakers Only. |
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Imagine the PR when the kid says the cop touched her private parts during transport View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What does a 6 year old do that causes them to be arrested? I'm pretty sure it's not angelic behavior I'm pretty sure it's not angelic behavior You have to admit handcuffing a non-combative 6 year old is bad PR |
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He thinks the Union is like some all power organization. He clearly doesn't understand that the Union would simply fight for their member. The firing might drag out, but he would ultimately be shitcanned if he was at fault even if a Union member. Since he's at will. He's out the door right then and there. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: But the union. And all the cops here saying this was appropriate. If he was a full timer, he wouldn't have been fired. He would have been suspended and the union would have been dragged in. |
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I guess you can't be wrong if you take both sides of a position. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: But the union. And all the cops here saying this was appropriate. If he was a full timer, he wouldn't have been fired. He would have been suspended and the union would have been dragged in. |
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They never "advocated" for the arrest. verb verb: advocate; 3rd person present: advocates; past tense: advocated; past participle: advocated; gerund or present participle: advocating /'adv??kat/ publicly recommend or support. https://i.imgflip.com/2pzj16.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Classic CYA Qhy did they call the police? Why didn't the school "handle" it? verb verb: advocate; 3rd person present: advocates; past tense: advocated; past participle: advocated; gerund or present participle: advocating /'adv??kat/ publicly recommend or support. https://i.imgflip.com/2pzj16.jpg I can’t recall how many times I’ve answered calls about an adult male living with his mother or grandmother who was violent because he was off his meds. Why the fuck ain’t he taking his meds? Then when violent asshole gets violent with me and my partner, and he gets a stick in the appropriate area of his body mom/grandma is screaming she just wanted him calmed down not arrested. This cop seems like a goofball according to his posted past, and handcuffing a compliant 6 year old-that said, society has a penchant for calling the trash man then bitching when he actually takes out the trash. |
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People wanted the State to "Do Something". Well, something was done. People need to be careful what they wish for. And the people don't want to repeal these laws. Hell, Arfcommers outside of Florida wanted us to reward the Republicans that passed these laws by voting them back into office. Shit, I remember when Rick Scott signed SB 7026 into law, folks here badmouthed him. Then they remembered he was running for the Senate. So they told us Floridians to vote for Rick Scott. What message did that send? Republicans can pass Big Government Authoritarian Control and Gun Control and they'll be rewarded with higher offices. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: If they are that bad they need to be in a mental hospital (and/or parents need to be in counseling/parenting classes as well), or at least a special ed school. Police should have no involvement until they are much, much older than 6. Which is why courts have to be involved to take any serious measures, which in turn requires police involvement. If you don't have a police report number and all of the data from the report that you cannot otherwise get due to privacy laws, nobody at the court or juvenile intake will even be able to start in most cases. The school was closed by the time I could get there, but I do recall signing a paper to authorize corporal punishment, and I checked the law again just now. It hasn't been used on my kids, cause they are not little shits. I've never had to spank my kids either. But it's still legal in Oklahoma. I am going to ask them ASAP about their policies regarding calling police on students. Hell, Arfcommers outside of Florida wanted us to reward the Republicans that passed these laws by voting them back into office. Shit, I remember when Rick Scott signed SB 7026 into law, folks here badmouthed him. Then they remembered he was running for the Senate. So they told us Floridians to vote for Rick Scott. What message did that send? Republicans can pass Big Government Authoritarian Control and Gun Control and they'll be rewarded with higher offices. Want a security clearance? Nope, sorry, you were arrested in 4th grade for punching the school bully. Want a concealed carry permit? Sorry, you got arrested when you were 14 for throwing an egg at your gym teacher. Everything is being logged and digitized, are these stupid laws/policies going to haunt kids for the rest of their lives? Red flag laws, laws that say people with histories of arrest can't own guns, etc. Kids these days are getting lifetime "sex offender" charges for taking selfies of their own privates. While stupid, and retarded, kids do dumb shit, and parents provide them with the tools to do it. But should these kids REALLY have to live the rest of their life as a "sex offender for child porn" because they took a selfie? If anything toss their parents in jail for the night for giving their kids a smart phone... Part of me thinks there is a long term plan in place to create as many felons as possible. Just look at how the fed refuses to move on Marijuana laws, even though ~38 states have legal medical marijuana. Just another way to create as many prohibited persons as possible? People that can be prosecute at the whim of the fed? Or have their pasts drug up the first time they run for public office opposing "the chosen candidate"? |
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MY biggest concern, at this point is "are these arrests going to follow them through their life?". Want a security clearance? Nope, sorry, you were arrested in 4th grade for punching the school bully. Want a concealed carry permit? Sorry, you got arrested when you were 14 for throwing an egg at your gym teacher. Everything is being logged and digitized, are these stupid laws/policies going to haunt kids for the rest of their lives? Red flag laws, laws that say people with histories of arrest can't own guns, etc. Kids these days are getting lifetime "sex offender" charges for taking selfies of their own privates. While stupid, and retarded, kids do dumb shit, and parents provide them with the tools to do it. But should these kids REALLY have to live the rest of their life as a "sex offender for child porn" because they took a selfie? If anything toss their parents in jail for the night for giving their kids a smart phone... Part of me thinks there is a long term plan in place to create as many felons as possible. Just look at how the fed refuses to move on Marijuana laws, even though ~38 states have legal medical marijuana. Just another way to create as many prohibited persons as possible? People that can be prosecute at the whim of the fed? Or have their pasts drug up the first time they run for public office opposing "the chosen candidate"? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: If they are that bad they need to be in a mental hospital (and/or parents need to be in counseling/parenting classes as well), or at least a special ed school. Police should have no involvement until they are much, much older than 6. Which is why courts have to be involved to take any serious measures, which in turn requires police involvement. If you don't have a police report number and all of the data from the report that you cannot otherwise get due to privacy laws, nobody at the court or juvenile intake will even be able to start in most cases. The school was closed by the time I could get there, but I do recall signing a paper to authorize corporal punishment, and I checked the law again just now. It hasn't been used on my kids, cause they are not little shits. I've never had to spank my kids either. But it's still legal in Oklahoma. I am going to ask them ASAP about their policies regarding calling police on students. Hell, Arfcommers outside of Florida wanted us to reward the Republicans that passed these laws by voting them back into office. Shit, I remember when Rick Scott signed SB 7026 into law, folks here badmouthed him. Then they remembered he was running for the Senate. So they told us Floridians to vote for Rick Scott. What message did that send? Republicans can pass Big Government Authoritarian Control and Gun Control and they'll be rewarded with higher offices. Want a security clearance? Nope, sorry, you were arrested in 4th grade for punching the school bully. Want a concealed carry permit? Sorry, you got arrested when you were 14 for throwing an egg at your gym teacher. Everything is being logged and digitized, are these stupid laws/policies going to haunt kids for the rest of their lives? Red flag laws, laws that say people with histories of arrest can't own guns, etc. Kids these days are getting lifetime "sex offender" charges for taking selfies of their own privates. While stupid, and retarded, kids do dumb shit, and parents provide them with the tools to do it. But should these kids REALLY have to live the rest of their life as a "sex offender for child porn" because they took a selfie? If anything toss their parents in jail for the night for giving their kids a smart phone... Part of me thinks there is a long term plan in place to create as many felons as possible. Just look at how the fed refuses to move on Marijuana laws, even though ~38 states have legal medical marijuana. Just another way to create as many prohibited persons as possible? People that can be prosecute at the whim of the fed? Or have their pasts drug up the first time they run for public office opposing "the chosen candidate"? |
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Why do so many agencies required ALL people transported, regardless of arrest to be searched and placed in cuffs? Cop gets fucked no matter what. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Nelson was (and is close) to dead. He wasn't going to last this term and honestly. If Scott wasn't in, the GOP would still have enough for Trump's Judicial Appointments. Instead we rewarded Scott with at least 20 years in office and the RPOFL was sent the message that it is okay to pass gun control. Look at this legislative session with Galvano's attempts at UBC and the Special Carve Out for CCW at Political Meetings for Lawmakers Only. View Quote |
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Yup. Even with in-car cameras I’d want another officer in the car due to her age, mental state and her gender. View Quote |
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I have ridden to the mental health facility in the back of patrol vehicles holding down feral kids who were doing everything imaginable. We also have a policy against employees riding in the cage compartment too. It's like you have to pick which rule to violate that you could get fucked on. View Quote Holy shit, it's almost like real life. |
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I have a Juvenile record. Folke got divorced when I was a kid. Until custody was determined I was a ward of the state. Every background red flags it as an arrest. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: If they are that bad they need to be in a mental hospital (and/or parents need to be in counseling/parenting classes as well), or at least a special ed school. Police should have no involvement until they are much, much older than 6. Which is why courts have to be involved to take any serious measures, which in turn requires police involvement. If you don't have a police report number and all of the data from the report that you cannot otherwise get due to privacy laws, nobody at the court or juvenile intake will even be able to start in most cases. The school was closed by the time I could get there, but I do recall signing a paper to authorize corporal punishment, and I checked the law again just now. It hasn't been used on my kids, cause they are not little shits. I've never had to spank my kids either. But it's still legal in Oklahoma. I am going to ask them ASAP about their policies regarding calling police on students. Hell, Arfcommers outside of Florida wanted us to reward the Republicans that passed these laws by voting them back into office. Shit, I remember when Rick Scott signed SB 7026 into law, folks here badmouthed him. Then they remembered he was running for the Senate. So they told us Floridians to vote for Rick Scott. What message did that send? Republicans can pass Big Government Authoritarian Control and Gun Control and they'll be rewarded with higher offices. Want a security clearance? Nope, sorry, you were arrested in 4th grade for punching the school bully. Want a concealed carry permit? Sorry, you got arrested when you were 14 for throwing an egg at your gym teacher. Everything is being logged and digitized, are these stupid laws/policies going to haunt kids for the rest of their lives? Red flag laws, laws that say people with histories of arrest can't own guns, etc. Kids these days are getting lifetime "sex offender" charges for taking selfies of their own privates. While stupid, and retarded, kids do dumb shit, and parents provide them with the tools to do it. But should these kids REALLY have to live the rest of their life as a "sex offender for child porn" because they took a selfie? If anything toss their parents in jail for the night for giving their kids a smart phone... Part of me thinks there is a long term plan in place to create as many felons as possible. Just look at how the fed refuses to move on Marijuana laws, even though ~38 states have legal medical marijuana. Just another way to create as many prohibited persons as possible? People that can be prosecute at the whim of the fed? Or have their pasts drug up the first time they run for public office opposing "the chosen candidate"? |
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I have ridden to the mental health facility in the back of patrol vehicles holding down feral kids who were doing everything imaginable. We also have a policy against employees riding in the cage compartment too. It's like you have to pick which rule to violate that you could get fucked on. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Yup. Even with in-car cameras I'd want another officer in the car due to her age, mental state and her gender. |
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Not that this is kinda not really sorta not at all in just a kinda bit not really...
Ehh.. they'll never enforce laws to take away our guns. Cause that ain't happening... Fuck everyone involved.. and fuck you too! |
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When the cop shows up the child and administrator are both calm and the incident is long over. Even when being taken to the car the child does not seem or sound violent, defiant, foul-mouthed, or anything except scared.
Absolutely no reason to restrain and arrest that child. |
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out.
I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. |
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. View Quote The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. |
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If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. I I have seen a second grader show up to a class mid-year and rack up multiple suspensions with the course of two months. It happens. What do you do when none of that works and the kid is still assaulting classmates? The specific manner in which the cop handled this was not good, but the general concept of getting police involved ... at a certain point that is necessary, as it's the only way to force the school and the student's family to take real steps. |
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If I had hit one of my teachers growing up, I would be lucky if I ever walked again View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I can sure tell what generation most of you guys grew up in.. Shit, if I had hit a teacher, my dad would have been busting my ass after he made me find the switch to do it with and then make me write an apology to the teacher and read it out loud in front of the class! |
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Pretty good gig. He gets to use the cuffs, keeps his count up, doesn't have to apprehend grown men and goes home safe every night...... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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This is your second post practically bragging about the abuse you’ve taken from kids. We don’t all share the same hobbies. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. |
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Excuse me, @ryann, I can assure you that the love, dedication, and investment I have made into my family and every single foster child that comes through my door is not now nor has it ever been a 'hobby.' I shared my personal experiences with children who behave poorly and act out to illustrate that handcuffing and arresting a child is NOT the answer. It is possible to deescalate a situation without utilizing anything on a cop's toolbelt when a tiny child is the one on the receiving end. But you already knew that. However, since your hobbies seem to include being as disingenuous as possible when speaking to someone who would dare challenge your point of view, I'm not surprised that you would go there about my family. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. I’ve encountered teens who have attempted to assault me, and instead of hugging them and de-escalating (whatever that means to you) I prevented an attack on myself via pain compliance. If I want to be assaulted I’ll hire a dominatrix |
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I didn’t go anywhere near your family, I just commented on your need to brag about the physical abuse you’ve so proudly experienced; I’m not supporting this cop handcuffing this kid, bit I’m also not advocating anyone be assaulted by anyone of any age. I’ve encountered teens who have attempted to assault me, and instead of hugging them and de-escalating (whatever that means to you) I prevented an attack on myself via pain compliance. If I want to be assaulted I’ll hire a dominatrix View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. I’ve encountered teens who have attempted to assault me, and instead of hugging them and de-escalating (whatever that means to you) I prevented an attack on myself via pain compliance. If I want to be assaulted I’ll hire a dominatrix |
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I read to me that he was talking about his kids and you decide to turn the conversation sexual. Interesting. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. I’ve encountered teens who have attempted to assault me, and instead of hugging them and de-escalating (whatever that means to you) I prevented an attack on myself via pain compliance. If I want to be assaulted I’ll hire a dominatrix It read to me “look at me I’ve been assaulted” you should be willing to be assaulted too.” You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in.-iteotwawki You want him on your jury if you were the defendant in a self defense trial? |
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totally agree, if the lesson is not taught early that what he did was wrong, the child will continue. Good arrest. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I can sure tell what generation most of you guys grew up in.. Shit, if I had hit a teacher, my dad would have been busting my ass after he made me find the switch to do it with and then make me write an apology to the teacher and read it out loud in front of the class! |
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That would be a good point in a country where police officers are allowed to make those decisions unrestrained by a Bill of Rights. However, officer social justice still has to act within the parameters of the Fourth Amendment, which doesn't allow unreasonable seizures. Even pretrial detainees aren't allowed to be subjected to being punished just for the lesson of being punished. For some reasons, some schools think they legally act as parents in regards to students. But they don't. They still have to comply with the Fourth Amendment, unlike parents. Ironically, there was a school search locally a few weeks back, and the SRO proudly announced to the media that the 4th amendment doesn't apply in schools because the school acts as the parent. Uh...actually that's completely wrong according to the SCOTUS. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I can sure tell what generation most of you guys grew up in.. Shit, if I had hit a teacher, my dad would have been busting my ass after he made me find the switch to do it with and then make me write an apology to the teacher and read it out loud in front of the class! What does loco parentis actually mean? |
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Why are school districts allowed to search lockers and backpacks if they have to comply with the 4A? What does loco parentis actually mean? View Quote School admins searching persons/personal effects have to have reasonable suspicion of violation of a school policy or law. Lower standard but not a total evisceration of the 4A. They have to have some specific, articulable fact(s) from which the logical inference can be drawn that a policy or law violation is occurring which would be revealed by the search. A SRO still needs PC and a warrant exception if performing in a LE role. It gets more complicated if the SRO and admin are there together and the admin asks the SRO to search. |
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No reasonable expectation of privacy in a school locker, since it's owned by (and in fact attached to) the school. School admins searching persons/personal effects have to have reasonable suspicion of violation of a school policy or law. Lower standard but not a total evisceration of the 4A. They have to have some specific, articulable fact(s) from which the logical inference can be drawn that a policy or law violation is occurring which would be revealed by the search. A SRO still needs PC and a warrant exception if performing in a LE role. It gets more complicated if the SRO and admin are there together and the admin asks the SRO to search. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why are school districts allowed to search lockers and backpacks if they have to comply with the 4A? What does loco parentis actually mean? School admins searching persons/personal effects have to have reasonable suspicion of violation of a school policy or law. Lower standard but not a total evisceration of the 4A. They have to have some specific, articulable fact(s) from which the logical inference can be drawn that a policy or law violation is occurring which would be revealed by the search. A SRO still needs PC and a warrant exception if performing in a LE role. It gets more complicated if the SRO and admin are there together and the admin asks the SRO to search. |
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Your last paragraph-what right does an SRO have to go around the 4A just because he’s doing it at the direction of a school official? View Quote |
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Although it was once open to debate whether that protection extends to school children, the Supreme Court held for the first time in New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325, 105 S.Ct. 733, 83 L.Ed.2d 720 (1985), that searches and seizures conducted on school premises by school officials are governed by the limits of the Fourth Amendment, see id. at 336-37, 105 S.Ct. 733. In reaching that conclusion, the Court rejected the notion that school officials act purely in loco parentis over school children. See id. ("In carrying out searches and other disciplinary functions ..., school officials act as representatives of the State, ... and they cannot claim the parents' immunity from the strictures of the Fourth Amendment.").
Searches and seizures carried out by school officials are governed by the same Fourth Amendment principles that apply in other contexts. See id. at 337, 105 S.Ct. 733. As a starting point, the Court has repeatedly emphasized that "[t]o be reasonable under the Fourth Amendment, a search ordinarily must be based on individualized suspicion of wrongdoing." Chandler v. Miller, 520 U.S. 305, 117 S.Ct. 1295 1301, 137 L.Ed.2d 513 (1997); see also Skinner v. Railway Labor Executives' Ass'n, 489 U.S. 602, 624, 109 S.Ct. 1402, 103 L.Ed.2d 639 (1989). Exceptions to that requirement have been upheld only in "certain limited circumstances," Chandler, 117 S.Ct. at 1298 (citation omitted), where the search is justified by "special needs, beyond the normal need for law enforcement," id. 117 S.Ct. 1295 at 1301 (citation omitted). Where the government asserts "special needs"--defined as "concerns other than crime detection"--as justification for a suspicionless search, "courts must undertake a context-specific inquiry, examining closely the competing private and public interests advanced by the parties." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1301 (citation omitted). The search will be upheld only where the government's interests in conducting the search are "substantial--important enough to override the individual's acknowledged privacy interest, sufficiently vital to suppress the Fourth Amendment's normal requirement of individualized suspicion." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1303; see, e.g., Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523, 87 S.Ct. 1727, 18 L.Ed.2d 930 (1967) (upholding suspicionless, random code-enforcement inspections where justified by health and safety concerns and where requirement of individualized suspicion would render search regime ineffectual); Skinner, 489 U.S. at 630-31, 109 S.Ct. 1402 (upholding suspicionless urinalysis of railroad employees following train accidents where compelling interest in preventing accidents from occurring would not be served by requirement of individualized suspicion). The Supreme Court laid the ground rules for suspicion-based school searches in T.L.O. There, the Court held that the constitutionality of school searches based on individualized suspicion would be evaluated by the two-pronged reasonableness standard first announced in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968). See T.L.O., 469 U.S. at 341, 105 S.Ct. 733. Pursuant to that standard, the reasonableness of a search is determined by considering first "whether the ... action was justified at its inception," id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868), and second, "whether the search as actually conducted was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place,' " id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868). T.L.O. did not hold that individualized suspicion is an essential element of reasonableness for all school searches. See id. at 342 n. 8, 105 S.Ct. 733. The Court found it unnecessary to address that issue since any requirement of individualized suspicion was easily satisfied by the facts presented in that case. See id. Nevertheless, the Court cautioned that, as in other contexts, a search conducted in the absence of individualized suspicion would be reasonable only in a narrow class of cases, "where the privacy interests implicated by a search are minimal and where 'other safeguards' are available 'to assure that the individual's reasonable expectation of privacy is not subject to the discretion of the official in the field.' " Id. (quoting Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648, 654-55, 99 S.Ct. 1391, 59 L.Ed.2d 660 (1979)). See DesRoches by DesRoches v. Caprio, 156 F.3d 571 (4th Cir. 1998) There's more as well.... but you can see where it's going. |
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You read sexual into the dominatrix comment? What you should have gleaned is that if I want to be assaulted I’ll choose to be assaulted. It read to me “look at me I’ve been assaulted” you should be willing to be assaulted too.” You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in.-iteotwawki You want him on your jury if you were the defendant in a self defense trial? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. I’ve encountered teens who have attempted to assault me, and instead of hugging them and de-escalating (whatever that means to you) I prevented an attack on myself via pain compliance. If I want to be assaulted I’ll hire a dominatrix It read to me “look at me I’ve been assaulted” you should be willing to be assaulted too.” You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in.-iteotwawki You want him on your jury if you were the defendant in a self defense trial? dom·i·na·trix /?däm?'natriks/ noun noun: dominatrix; plural noun: dominatrices; plural noun: dominatrixes A dominating woman, especially one who takes the sadistic role in sadomasochistic sexual activities. |
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People complain when kids in school do outrageous things without consequence. People complain when kids are disciplined. People complain...
As long as feminists run the show things are going to be f'ed up. If everyone passes the buck than shit rolls downhill and the police end up with the job. Until we put men back in charge this is going to be how things are. Arresting a six year old kid is better than doing nothing and letting them get worse and worse... |
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Do you really want me to explain it to you? It will be a long explanation. Who is paying for this? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why are school districts allowed to search lockers and backpacks if they have to comply with the 4A? What does loco parentis actually mean? Forget it. |
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I got it from a thing called the dictionary: dom·i·na·trix /?däm?'natriks/ noun noun: dominatrix; plural noun: dominatrices; plural noun: dominatrixes A dominating woman, especially one who takes the sadistic role in sadomasochistic sexual activities. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wish news agencies could figure their shit out. I've read one article that states that the school resource officer in this situation was at that school all day every day and wasn't called --- he was already there. I've read another article that states he was a school resource officer that split his time between three schools that are close together there and was at another one when the incident occurred and was called there. So which is it? I still maintain that I've dealt with some of the worst kids you can possibly deal with and I've never needed or wanted to put cuffs on them or call the police to put cuffs on them and take them away - especially a little six-year-old. If you can't handle a six year old then don't work with kids. I've had training in physically restraining a child with autism that would self injure and I've pulled that move ONCE on a boy who didn't have autism but was bigger than me and going after my wife, but I've never needed or wanted the police to get involved. And I homeschool every single child of school age that comes through my door so I've never had issues with a school or expected them to handle any kid in my care. I homeschool all of them ... the ones that arrive addicted to drugs or withdrawing. The ones that are pregnant or recently had a child that was taken from them. The ones that hoard food, cut themselves, come onto adults sexually, come on to each other sexually, can't read at fifteen, damage my property, fight my kids, fight me, shove me, hit me, and more. I've ADOPTED twins who were passed around sexually by their bio family to one another and friends so often that my daughter had a hysterectomy before she was in the double digits age-wise. The boy I restrained? That's now my son, one of the twins. I know damaged kids. I know them well because I was one with a similar story to the twins. There is a right way and a wrong way to deal with damaged kids. You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in. If you need to physically restrain a child from harming themselves or someone else then go for it but the little girl in that video was calm, she wasn't fighting, she wasn't threatening anyone or being bad at the time he cuffed her. She was remorseful, apologetic, agreeable and asking/begging for a second chance. At the point he cuffed her ... it wasn't required to do so. The situation seemed to have passed. The school could have suspended her and called someone from her family to come get her. They could have put her in some sort of isolation like in school suspension for the rest of the day if no family could come get her and then suspended her out of school for several days after that. There were options available. It sounds like the school didn't want her cuffed and stuffed but the bragging officer - who had a very lengthy disciplinary history including abusing his own kid from what I've read - enjoyed being the total authority over tiny kids. Made him feel big in the trousers, I think. The cops not getting much sympathy in this thread, but the school shoved their problem onto the cop because they didn’t want to deal with her. I’ve encountered teens who have attempted to assault me, and instead of hugging them and de-escalating (whatever that means to you) I prevented an attack on myself via pain compliance. If I want to be assaulted I’ll hire a dominatrix It read to me “look at me I’ve been assaulted” you should be willing to be assaulted too.” You can use your words to deescalate just about any situation you find yourself in.-iteotwawki You want him on your jury if you were the defendant in a self defense trial? dom·i·na·trix /?däm?'natriks/ noun noun: dominatrix; plural noun: dominatrices; plural noun: dominatrixes A dominating woman, especially one who takes the sadistic role in sadomasochistic sexual activities. You just want to talk shit I’m not gonna enable you |
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Although it was once open to debate whether that protection extends to school children, the Supreme Court held for the first time in New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325, 105 S.Ct. 733, 83 L.Ed.2d 720 (1985), that searches and seizures conducted on school premises by school officials are governed by the limits of the Fourth Amendment, see id. at 336-37, 105 S.Ct. 733. In reaching that conclusion, the Court rejected the notion that school officials act purely in loco parentis over school children. See id. ("In carrying out searches and other disciplinary functions ..., school officials act as representatives of the State, ... and they cannot claim the parents' immunity from the strictures of the Fourth Amendment."). Searches and seizures carried out by school officials are governed by the same Fourth Amendment principles that apply in other contexts. See id. at 337, 105 S.Ct. 733. As a starting point, the Court has repeatedly emphasized that "[t]o be reasonable under the Fourth Amendment, a search ordinarily must be based on individualized suspicion of wrongdoing." Chandler v. Miller, 520 U.S. 305, 117 S.Ct. 1295 1301, 137 L.Ed.2d 513 (1997); see also Skinner v. Railway Labor Executives' Ass'n, 489 U.S. 602, 624, 109 S.Ct. 1402, 103 L.Ed.2d 639 (1989). Exceptions to that requirement have been upheld only in "certain limited circumstances," Chandler, 117 S.Ct. at 1298 (citation omitted), where the search is justified by "special needs, beyond the normal need for law enforcement," id. 117 S.Ct. 1295 at 1301 (citation omitted). Where the government asserts "special needs"--defined as "concerns other than crime detection"--as justification for a suspicionless search, "courts must undertake a context-specific inquiry, examining closely the competing private and public interests advanced by the parties." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1301 (citation omitted). The search will be upheld only where the government's interests in conducting the search are "substantial--important enough to override the individual's acknowledged privacy interest, sufficiently vital to suppress the Fourth Amendment's normal requirement of individualized suspicion." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1303; see, e.g., Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523, 87 S.Ct. 1727, 18 L.Ed.2d 930 (1967) (upholding suspicionless, random code-enforcement inspections where justified by health and safety concerns and where requirement of individualized suspicion would render search regime ineffectual); Skinner, 489 U.S. at 630-31, 109 S.Ct. 1402 (upholding suspicionless urinalysis of railroad employees following train accidents where compelling interest in preventing accidents from occurring would not be served by requirement of individualized suspicion). The Supreme Court laid the ground rules for suspicion-based school searches in T.L.O. There, the Court held that the constitutionality of school searches based on individualized suspicion would be evaluated by the two-pronged reasonableness standard first announced in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968). See T.L.O., 469 U.S. at 341, 105 S.Ct. 733. Pursuant to that standard, the reasonableness of a search is determined by considering first "whether the ... action was justified at its inception," id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868), and second, "whether the search as actually conducted was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place,' " id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868). T.L.O. did not hold that individualized suspicion is an essential element of reasonableness for all school searches. See id. at 342 n. 8, 105 S.Ct. 733. The Court found it unnecessary to address that issue since any requirement of individualized suspicion was easily satisfied by the facts presented in that case. See id. Nevertheless, the Court cautioned that, as in other contexts, a search conducted in the absence of individualized suspicion would be reasonable only in a narrow class of cases, "where the privacy interests implicated by a search are minimal and where 'other safeguards' are available 'to assure that the individual's reasonable expectation of privacy is not subject to the discretion of the official in the field.' " Id. (quoting Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648, 654-55, 99 S.Ct. 1391, 59 L.Ed.2d 660 (1979)). See DesRoches by DesRoches v. Caprio, 156 F.3d 571 (4th Cir. 1998) There's more as well.... but you can see where it's going. View Quote |
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I see where it’s going-more copy and paste View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Although it was once open to debate whether that protection extends to school children, the Supreme Court held for the first time in New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325, 105 S.Ct. 733, 83 L.Ed.2d 720 (1985), that searches and seizures conducted on school premises by school officials are governed by the limits of the Fourth Amendment, see id. at 336-37, 105 S.Ct. 733. In reaching that conclusion, the Court rejected the notion that school officials act purely in loco parentis over school children. See id. ("In carrying out searches and other disciplinary functions ..., school officials act as representatives of the State, ... and they cannot claim the parents' immunity from the strictures of the Fourth Amendment."). Searches and seizures carried out by school officials are governed by the same Fourth Amendment principles that apply in other contexts. See id. at 337, 105 S.Ct. 733. As a starting point, the Court has repeatedly emphasized that "[t]o be reasonable under the Fourth Amendment, a search ordinarily must be based on individualized suspicion of wrongdoing." Chandler v. Miller, 520 U.S. 305, 117 S.Ct. 1295 1301, 137 L.Ed.2d 513 (1997); see also Skinner v. Railway Labor Executives' Ass'n, 489 U.S. 602, 624, 109 S.Ct. 1402, 103 L.Ed.2d 639 (1989). Exceptions to that requirement have been upheld only in "certain limited circumstances," Chandler, 117 S.Ct. at 1298 (citation omitted), where the search is justified by "special needs, beyond the normal need for law enforcement," id. 117 S.Ct. 1295 at 1301 (citation omitted). Where the government asserts "special needs"--defined as "concerns other than crime detection"--as justification for a suspicionless search, "courts must undertake a context-specific inquiry, examining closely the competing private and public interests advanced by the parties." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1301 (citation omitted). The search will be upheld only where the government's interests in conducting the search are "substantial--important enough to override the individual's acknowledged privacy interest, sufficiently vital to suppress the Fourth Amendment's normal requirement of individualized suspicion." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1303; see, e.g., Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523, 87 S.Ct. 1727, 18 L.Ed.2d 930 (1967) (upholding suspicionless, random code-enforcement inspections where justified by health and safety concerns and where requirement of individualized suspicion would render search regime ineffectual); Skinner, 489 U.S. at 630-31, 109 S.Ct. 1402 (upholding suspicionless urinalysis of railroad employees following train accidents where compelling interest in preventing accidents from occurring would not be served by requirement of individualized suspicion). The Supreme Court laid the ground rules for suspicion-based school searches in T.L.O. There, the Court held that the constitutionality of school searches based on individualized suspicion would be evaluated by the two-pronged reasonableness standard first announced in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968). See T.L.O., 469 U.S. at 341, 105 S.Ct. 733. Pursuant to that standard, the reasonableness of a search is determined by considering first "whether the ... action was justified at its inception," id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868), and second, "whether the search as actually conducted was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place,' " id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868). T.L.O. did not hold that individualized suspicion is an essential element of reasonableness for all school searches. See id. at 342 n. 8, 105 S.Ct. 733. The Court found it unnecessary to address that issue since any requirement of individualized suspicion was easily satisfied by the facts presented in that case. See id. Nevertheless, the Court cautioned that, as in other contexts, a search conducted in the absence of individualized suspicion would be reasonable only in a narrow class of cases, "where the privacy interests implicated by a search are minimal and where 'other safeguards' are available 'to assure that the individual's reasonable expectation of privacy is not subject to the discretion of the official in the field.' " Id. (quoting Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648, 654-55, 99 S.Ct. 1391, 59 L.Ed.2d 660 (1979)). See DesRoches by DesRoches v. Caprio, 156 F.3d 571 (4th Cir. 1998) There's more as well.... but you can see where it's going. |
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Well you seem at times to be using this site as an infomercial to promote your practice so don’t get pissy when you’re asked a question. Forget it. View Quote |
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It's copied and pasted from my own work, grandpa. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Although it was once open to debate whether that protection extends to school children, the Supreme Court held for the first time in New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325, 105 S.Ct. 733, 83 L.Ed.2d 720 (1985), that searches and seizures conducted on school premises by school officials are governed by the limits of the Fourth Amendment, see id. at 336-37, 105 S.Ct. 733. In reaching that conclusion, the Court rejected the notion that school officials act purely in loco parentis over school children. See id. ("In carrying out searches and other disciplinary functions ..., school officials act as representatives of the State, ... and they cannot claim the parents' immunity from the strictures of the Fourth Amendment."). Searches and seizures carried out by school officials are governed by the same Fourth Amendment principles that apply in other contexts. See id. at 337, 105 S.Ct. 733. As a starting point, the Court has repeatedly emphasized that "[t]o be reasonable under the Fourth Amendment, a search ordinarily must be based on individualized suspicion of wrongdoing." Chandler v. Miller, 520 U.S. 305, 117 S.Ct. 1295 1301, 137 L.Ed.2d 513 (1997); see also Skinner v. Railway Labor Executives' Ass'n, 489 U.S. 602, 624, 109 S.Ct. 1402, 103 L.Ed.2d 639 (1989). Exceptions to that requirement have been upheld only in "certain limited circumstances," Chandler, 117 S.Ct. at 1298 (citation omitted), where the search is justified by "special needs, beyond the normal need for law enforcement," id. 117 S.Ct. 1295 at 1301 (citation omitted). Where the government asserts "special needs"--defined as "concerns other than crime detection"--as justification for a suspicionless search, "courts must undertake a context-specific inquiry, examining closely the competing private and public interests advanced by the parties." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1301 (citation omitted). The search will be upheld only where the government's interests in conducting the search are "substantial--important enough to override the individual's acknowledged privacy interest, sufficiently vital to suppress the Fourth Amendment's normal requirement of individualized suspicion." Id. 117 S.Ct. at 1303; see, e.g., Camara v. Municipal Court, 387 U.S. 523, 87 S.Ct. 1727, 18 L.Ed.2d 930 (1967) (upholding suspicionless, random code-enforcement inspections where justified by health and safety concerns and where requirement of individualized suspicion would render search regime ineffectual); Skinner, 489 U.S. at 630-31, 109 S.Ct. 1402 (upholding suspicionless urinalysis of railroad employees following train accidents where compelling interest in preventing accidents from occurring would not be served by requirement of individualized suspicion). The Supreme Court laid the ground rules for suspicion-based school searches in T.L.O. There, the Court held that the constitutionality of school searches based on individualized suspicion would be evaluated by the two-pronged reasonableness standard first announced in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968). See T.L.O., 469 U.S. at 341, 105 S.Ct. 733. Pursuant to that standard, the reasonableness of a search is determined by considering first "whether the ... action was justified at its inception," id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868), and second, "whether the search as actually conducted was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place,' " id. (quoting Terry, 392 U.S. at 20, 88 S.Ct. 1868). T.L.O. did not hold that individualized suspicion is an essential element of reasonableness for all school searches. See id. at 342 n. 8, 105 S.Ct. 733. The Court found it unnecessary to address that issue since any requirement of individualized suspicion was easily satisfied by the facts presented in that case. See id. Nevertheless, the Court cautioned that, as in other contexts, a search conducted in the absence of individualized suspicion would be reasonable only in a narrow class of cases, "where the privacy interests implicated by a search are minimal and where 'other safeguards' are available 'to assure that the individual's reasonable expectation of privacy is not subject to the discretion of the official in the field.' " Id. (quoting Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648, 654-55, 99 S.Ct. 1391, 59 L.Ed.2d 660 (1979)). See DesRoches by DesRoches v. Caprio, 156 F.3d 571 (4th Cir. 1998) There's more as well.... but you can see where it's going. |
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