Well said.  Underestimate China at your peril.  

That's going to be fun when we get to the point of "satellite" warfare.

We will get to see a the next evolution in warfare with the incorporation of space.

The land would fare better than the meat sacks.

And we'd probably intercept theirs.

Attached File

For the turbofan core, temps get really high, and the RPMs are blistering fast.  The hotter the engine runs, the more thrust you can achieve, and we've been demanding more and more performance from each generation.

MiG-15/ VK-1 (reverse-engineered British Rolls Royce Nene):  6,000lb thrust
F-86F/ GE J47-GE-27:  5,970lb thrust

F-100D/ J57-PW-21: 16,000lb in AB
MiG-19/ 2xTumansky RD-9B: 7,160lb thrust each

F-104G/ GE J79: 15,600lb in AB
F-105D/ P&W J75-PW-P19W: 24,500lb in AB

MiG-23MLD/ Khatchaturov  R-35-300: 28,700lb in AB
F-4E/GE 2x J79-GE-17A: 17,845lb each in AB

F-15A/ 2 x Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-100:  23,930lb each in AB
F-15C/ 2 x Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 DEEC: 23,930lb each in AB
F-15E/ 2 x Pratt & Whtinet F100-PW-229 IPE: 29,160lb each in AB

F-16A/F100-PW-200: 23,930lb in AB
MiG-29A/ 2 x RD-33 Kilmov: 18,277lb each in AB
F-16C Block 30/40/50 GE F110-GE-100:  28,000lb in AB
F110-GE-129: 29,400lb AB
F-16C Block 42/52 F100-PW-229 29,160lb in AB

Su-27/ 2 Saturn AL-31F: 27,560lb each in AB

F-22A/ 2 x Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100: 35,000lb thrust each in AB

F-35A/ Pratt  Whitney F135-PW-100: 28,000lb dry, 43,000lb thrust in AB





If you use a traditional alloy with inherent crystalline structure, you have areas all over the surface from which to propagate a fracture.

We cracked that code decades ago by using an advanced process with alloy in a molten state through tiny flow ports in the molds to form the single crystal blades.

We've only improved the quality and processes on that technology over the years and are working on problems well ahead of that.

For a baseline reference, the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 Improved Performance Engines have an extremely high reliability record as a result.

No F-16 loss has ever been attributed to the engine in the F100-PW-229 equipped Vipers, whereas most of the F-16 losses have been engine failure related.

No we helped them come along a LOT.

So what if the engine only lasts a few hundred hours.  Only has to work an hour to deliver anti-ship missiles at US carriers.

Agree100%.

And it doesn't hurt that their R&D is astronomically accelerated with wholesale IP theft on a scale that could be basis for a war all by itself.

You gotta train too.  Can't just throw a pilot in the aircraft and expect rounds on target.

Engine quality and durability are huge factors in maintaining realistic readiness levels.

Nobody does jet engine maintenance like the US.

Because the Chinese said so, just like they said their economic growth is at 7.5%, quarter after quarter.

And media repeats it because clickbait and lazy.

So they just buy / build more engines than aircraft.  Which they have the money and industrial capacity to do.

This is just another example of the best enemies money can buy.

China has been buying general aviation companies from the US for over a decade.

They send their students here train

we have been subsidizing their aviation industry for way to long.

Any Air Force that is even halfway serious already buys more engines than aircraft so that can replace them quickly to maintain OPTEMPO and sortie rates.

Quantity and quality high performance fighter engines require an established, competent industrial base with quality control measures that exceed what most people in other industries would even imagine.

The Chinese culture is one that lets things including their homes and automobiles dilapidate into erosion before even considering repairs.

What seems to be premised here is that they will simply throw money and resources at this problem and fix it.

China has never been known to do that.  It would be a massive cultural leap out of their skin for them to suddenly adopt stringent QC protocols and 1 per million defect industrial discipline.  Money rarely fixes fundamental cultural retardation, and contrarily, it usually exacerbates the endemic problems of the system.

Look at US public schools as an example.

In their defense, the external surfaces of the J-20 look cleaner than even the Russian Su-57.

They have obviously learned something from the F-35 TDP they stole.

The WS-10 is based on reverse-engineering airliner turbofans and Russian Saturn engines, along with whatever they've been able to steal via technical exploitation and IP theft in the US and Europe.  All of that still doesn't magically fill-in a vast propulsion industrial base for them.

Meanwhile, we've been flying F-22As for 20 years, and our first operational USAF F-35A Fighter Wing will have its full strength of 78 F-35As by the end of the year, with several other USMC F-35B Squadrons already operational, and USN coming online with their F-35Cs for a fleet of 360 aircraft already delivered, with 177,000 flight hours so far.

If China is trying to get into a 5th Gen Sensor-Shooter race with the US, they started 20 years too late down the track.

Why?  Chinese junk is still junk...

Does it works?

On paper, more like a gen 4+.

Why we allow them to steal from us is mind boggling

Not sure i'd trust an engine that turns in the wrong direction. isn't the post-combustion blade running backwards?

/TCP

It's clear from the pictures their TDS system is missing. Also the guidance of a PRC device or plane cannot endure BLVR at any speed close to attack or evasive levels of any significance. Given time and trial and error I would think the FLV can be adapted to a to sufficiently handle the stress encountered.

Chinook3

Agreed. Currently their 4th rate when it comes to military aviation. But with their funding far outpacing what the Russians can do, I expect them to be on par and maybe even better than the Russians within 20 years. Considering how their economy puts out some sophisticated technology (computers, electronics ect.) it doesn't surprise me they making great strides. And they're pouring money into these programs. Even if the first few are crap, eventually they'll get closer to the mark.

They have a long way to go to close the gap on the US or even western Europe, but don't under estimate them.

Looks like a high-res photo of a drop test in progress.

Or Musk’s BFR filled with MKVs under the guise of microsats for Internet.

I mean, wut?

Would accelerate AOC's "rebuild every house in America" plan.

Yes.

First strike on commies FTW

You're missing the point.

Where we they 20 years ago in terms of defense?  A joke.

Now they are close to a peer adversary.

Where was the US 20 years ago.

Look at how much they have caught up in 20 years, shit look at the last 10 years.

The United States has grown steadily weaker, irrespective if the administration was Republican or Democrat.  Granted it is more pronounced under Democrat administrations, but the blame is shared by both parties.

Look at how much further to left each successive Democrat administration becomes.

The US is now the global superpower, but it is one Democrat administration away from an "East of the Suez" type decision.

Britain was a global superpower in decline, and all it took was one far left administration to permanently destroy Britain's global military power.  Just one far left politician who was a KGB asset, to be maneuvered into the #1 political office in the land.

This site has a daily tossing fest over one such person in US politics who could well end up being the US military's "Harold Wilson".

Creating the military / defense infrastructure for a global military takes at least a generation to realize.  In Britain all it took was an administration that didn't want to pay for it for the next 5 years, instead squandering it on useless welfare programs and it was gone for 50+ years.

The back bone of US military dominance of the planet since 1944 has been it's air power.  For the 21st Century, that will shift ever more into space.

With the cancellation of the F-22 program at only 187 aircraft the US threw away the opportunity to procure large numbers of the most dominant fighter plane ever.

The procurement of the original 750 aircraft would have secured US air dominance, unequivocally for the next 30 years.

This wasting of a golden opportunity was a politically bi-partisan effort.

Think about that for a second, both political parties were afraid American air power might be too powerful.  Why?

The elephant in the room is the fact that the Chinese would still be in the technological stone age if the US did not allow and actively encourage the Chinese espionage of everything.  This is aided, abetted and sponsored again by both American political parties and large corporations.

America can pull the plug on Chinese military's advancement tomorrow, by actually having this thing called counter-intelligence.  Something that is basically non-existent.  WHY?

With everyday that passes America grows weaker and China grows stronger.  Their progress is inversely parasitic due to American corruption, greed and weakness.

In the not too distant future those lines of advancement and decline will intersect and it will be because America wanted it.

It doesn't.  It has to do with this part of your post: "They're still doing external stores carriage testing on the J-20." and the implication that the aircraft had no capability because testing is ongoing.

The USMC IOCed F-35 without the ability to carry even the threshold weapons and there is still a crap ton of testing to do on the platform for weapon carriage and a large number of additional capabilities it is supposed to have (threshold).

We allow them to study and learn here. Approx. 375,000 Chinese students are enrolled in higher education in the U.S. This constitutes about 1/3 of international students in the U.S.

For 2017-2018 there were approx. 765 undergrad and graduate students at MIT from China.

The weapons already exist. If we get into a real shooting war with a near-peer, it will happen.

The land would be fallout central and unusable until several inches of topsoil are removed.

No, but I'm glad that you have swallowed the Russian propaganda about that wholesale.

20 years ago, China was becoming a much more capable threat than before, thanks to technology transfer from the US, Russia, and Israel.

We're in agreement on the political side.

I'm talking about the cultural side of things.

In places like China and Russia, putting up a front to make your capabilities appear better than they are is critical for the internal security apparatus to maintain control.  Same for regional neighbors.

Every single regional neighbor who has fought for control of territory and resources that China got into open conflict with kicked their anus in, especially the Japanese, in ways that most people have not seen done in conventional warfare since that time.  The slaying that Japan unleashed on Manchuria was Genghis Khan levels of brutality and inhumanity.

When China tried to go teach little Vietnam a lesson in 1979, they got their fannies spanked again.

They aren't going to openly provoke the US into actual rounds exchanged unless they've gone totally retarded.

They would need a local regional little man to pick on to show strength to their interior, and almost all of their regional rivals are US allies.

If they aren't willing to exert and demonstrate capability, then they are just engaging in an arms race against themselves while their infrastructure collapses.

Nukes aren't that bad. They're really not, fallout wise.

I was only half kidding with my proposal.

During the cold war, we were talking about thousands and thousands of nukes. The destruction would've been crazy. Now? How many deliverable nukes do China and Russia have, and let's compare that to our defenses.

I am indeed making a joke, but the crazy part is if you just think about it, it's not really THAT crazy of an idea. If you want to stop military progress and send a message to your adversary, that's a pretty big way to do it.

I think it's interesting no one talks about first strikes anymore. The Russians and Chinese continue to develop first strike weapons but I'm sure the majority of this site would abhor a first strike US policy. Again, I'm not advocating it other than a thought exercise, but I most certainly think we need to discuss it more.

I didn't imply that they had "no capability" with the J-20.

I clearly pointed out that they are way behind the schedule compared to us.  We have yet to even see any indications of separation testing, let alone live missile shots against super-maneuvering drones.

AIM-120 integration on the USMC F-35B started from a baseline of legacy performance + and worked up from there, and will never cease throughout the life of the aircraft until AIM-120 is totally replaced.  If you get any info from POGO, understand that it is a foreign intelligence service-influenced disinformation outlet that takes DOT&E data, then misrepresents that data to demoralize and influence policy-makers from supporting the program, while misinforming everyone else at the same time.

Key tactics POGO uses are to list problems that were addressed years ago as if they were continuing problems, then repeat these in an accumulating list of "major failings" of the program so that every time a presstitute scavenges up some click-bait talking points, they can list the POGO research, because it sounds like a legitimate government watchdog organization.

If you critically read the DOT&E reports, then contrast them with what POGO claims, against an understanding of how Operational Test & Evaluation processes have played out in the past, you can clearly see how POGO takes data they don't understand nor do they care to, and manipulate that data to serve their purposes.

Notice that the Air-to-Air missile assessment found issues with Block 2b and 3i configurations that were still latent in the fleet, not actual 3F.

The purpose of DOT&E is to identify as many problems as possible, not hide them.  A person with no background in how operational test and evaluation or the underlying systems would read the DOT&E report and think the sky was falling, not having ever seen a baseline from F-15/F-16/F-18/F-22, engines, electro-optical sensors, radar, comms, cockpit display, emergency systems, and weapons integration challenges all of those programs have faced and continue to face.

If only I understood how T&E worked as well as you

What if our F35s can act as a sensor web in a space degraded environment?

Arguably it would be in the best interest of nation states with weaker space presences to degrade all space based assets by attempting to create Kessler syndrome.

We seem to be in overall agreement over the big picture.

With regard to the Chinese culture, I don't have much of a disagreement with you there.  Although they are experiencing a societal change along the lines that Western Europe did during the industrial revolution.

My point is we cannot afford to underestimate them.  We must overestimate their capability and plan accordingly.

Thank God, the Japanese seem to be waking back up in terms of their defense spending and long term outlook.

What is interesting is that the Japanese are partnering with the British to make the next generation long range A2A missile to be even better than the current Meteor.

Which begs the question, what will be the aircraft the Japanese intend to hang it off?

Partnership on the proposed F-22B and new 6th Gen Fighter would really be a step in the right direction of the US and it's allies in the region staying 1 step ahead of the Chinese.

Not worried about the Chicoms. I work with a dozen and they are the weakest, most frail, softest, confused all the time, small little guys I’ve ever met.

You think our millennials are bad? Lol

The Chinese have some really nice gear now. Their missile tech is especially impressive. Also they are building arguably the best surface ships in the world right now. Nobody who knows better is underestimating them.

I has cute little T-rex arms.

What T&E have you been involved with related to the teen fighters, their ancillary sensors, weapons, and test programs?

I thought you were a crew chief on rotary and fixed wing props in the Navy.

Thing is, they've done similar making Shanghai, Beijing, and Shenzen into shining beacons of progress... while the rest of the country crumbles into ruin around it.
And even then, the polish on those cities is only a veneer. Scratch it a little and you find that what should be reinforced concrete structure is wadded newspaper covered over with plaster.

By all accounts, the Luyang 3 is a hell of a ship, maybe better even than our Burkes or Ticos. But it's also being driven by the Chinese.
And for all their tech, everything they've been given, and everything they've learned, they'll build walls out of cardboard given half a chance.

I'd cut them off

With “Driver” in his name, I’d bet money he was a pilot.

Clearly not as much as you have.  Please tell us all about the 5th gen T&E with which you've been involved.

If you think I'm going to risk being AROCKED by listing my bona fides here, you're nuts.

My user name reflects what I was doing in 2002 when I joined.  How about yours?

What do you mean looking back?

It’s been clear for years that’s exactly what they’re doing, this shit isn’t accidental. The globalists are evil not stupid.

Either they have people on the inside or someone is selling it to them and then “whoops” it got “hacked”.

We have little choice but to let them catch up technologically and militarily before they provoke a conflict. Expect peace until China decides that they're ready to take us on.

China is a demographic time bomb that knows it has a short window (maybe 30 years) in order to assert itself as a global superpower. If they don't realize their aspirations and establish themselves during this window, they will get too old too fast.

It would not shock me if they were to engineer a confrontation during this period in order "take their shot" not unlike the Japanese during WW2 knowing their empire was getting strangled to death.