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The only problem with those tests is that I can't see any circumstance where I will be filling my gun with mud., regardless of whether it's an AR or AK. View Quote |
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Yup. I don't really need to argue it because I've seen it happen. Not often, but it has happened. Rifle locked up tight, BCG slightly OOB, gun WILL NOT OPEN. Period. At that point ther's little you can do without breaking out some tools to see what can be made to move to possibly break things loose. We won't get into broken bolts. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Brass over bolt. Doesn't even register as an issue with most guns, but it is on the AR. So we can redesign the hand guards to have freefloat barrels, but a small modification to prevent Brass over bolt is utterly beyond us... I'll take the extremely remote chance of that happening over all of the shitty detractors of the numerous examples posted here. |
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Excerpts from the article In the military we are taught that the AR-15 is a fine weapon "as long as you maintain it." In truth, the design works (80% of the time) in spite of itself, and has gone through so many design iterations that people have lost count. The history of the AR-15 is a history of band-aids The front sight assembly sits ridiculously high because the straight (non-ergonomic) stock has to contain a massive spring and buffer assembly. If the weight or spring compression in that assembly is off just a small amount, it causes malfunction. This design flaw, right out of the gate, causes a huge mechanical offset where the eye lines up around three inches higher than the barrel. That's why in 2019 you can't find a new AR-15 with an old school front sight assembly The gas tube is thin, fragile and subject to bending or breakingusually taking the rifle out of commission. ??????? The star chamber and bolt face are perhaps the single biggest design flaw of the AR-15. That's the eight-petaled flower at the front of the bolt. Flowers don't belong in assault rifles. Some say the star chamber provides accuracy. It does not. Bolt-action sniper rifles don't have star chambers. They have two or three lug bolts and they are the gold standard for accuracy. There is no delay in the bolt moving during the extraction phase and this causes tremendous mechanical resistance. When the bolt carrier begins to move, it tries immediately to turn the bolt without first gaining momentum. If the bolt is stuck to the inside of the chamber due to fouling (or crap ammo like in Vietnam) then there is often not enough energy to knock the bolt back into rotation. There's no "running start" to dislodge the bullet before turning the bolt. Almost all battle rifles, like the M14, M1 and AK use a delayed rotating bolt. The mass of the bolt carrier, once in motion, wants to stay in motion and hits the bolt like a hammer, knocking it into rotation and into extraction. Not so for the AR-15. The extractor, due to its design has issues because it is similar to a teeter-totter that is out of balance. This causes the extractor to want to slip off the rim of the casing causing failure to extract malfunctions. This is particularly evident when the chamber gets fouled from use in combat conditions. Almost all infantry soldiers carry cleaning rods to clear this brutal malfunction so they can knock a spent casing out of the chamber and get back in the fight. View Quote |
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The Colt 727, basically an A2-upper proto-M4. I made a quasi-clone of one from a Bushmaster A2 upper and Izzy barrel. View Quote They additionally had some older models in Somalia. I believe I read that Delta started with the Colt 723 at its founding. Some of the late 723 production had XM4 barrels. The 727 always had the A2 rear sight and XM4 barrel. They also had the 733 with 11.5" barrel. These were all COTS purchases and therefore didn't have any U.S. Gov't markings. They were generally marked M16A2 Carbine (unless the unit assembled one using an old lower). |
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It is really good to have a few but when shtf.. AK time. View Quote A lot of people seem to think it'll be hordes of bad guys and extended firefights with their AR, and they'll emerge victorious, saving their family and their dog atop a mountain of brass. The truth is, they'll he taken out with a single '06 round from Bob the hunter at 300 yards, out hiding under some garbage within 5 minutes. |
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Quoted: Yep. A good AK is hard to beat. Even a mini 14 will be superior to an AR in shtf. A lot of people seem to think it'll be hordes of bad guys and extended firefights with their AR, and they'll emerge victorious, saving their family and their dog atop a mountain of brass. The truth is, they'll he taken out with a single '06 round from Bob the hunter at 300 yards, out hiding under some garbage within 5 minutes. View Quote |
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Why would you use a firearm in a SHTF situation that would be hard as hell to scrounge basic replacement parts for including magazines? The AR is probably the easiest rifle you'll ever find to scrounge parts for if you prepped and the SHTF plus the cheapest to stockpile a few parts for. View Quote |
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It's why you carry something that won't need a ton of spare parts. Like an SKS, mini, AK, hell a nice bolt action rifle will probably outlast an AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why would you use a firearm in a SHTF situation that would be hard as hell to scrounge basic replacement parts for including magazines? The AR is probably the easiest rifle you'll ever find to scrounge parts for if you prepped and the SHTF plus the cheapest to stockpile a few parts for. |
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Quoted: Lol View Quote I'd sooner have a mini 14 if I had to have a mouse gun for personal defense. I think my situation will be very different than everyone else's though, because I'm sure as hell not planning on fighting other people. |
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Both shoot much smoother than ARs. It’s very noticeable. Scar is just as accurate and probably more reliable too. Tavor is much shorter. Scar stock can fold. Both are piston guns which are cleaner and keep gases away from the action and shooter. Piston ARs do the same and parts are proprietary as well
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Quoted: Sorry fellas, I've seen them go down too often without proper care, I wouldn't trust one without an armory to keep them maintained, at least within the confines of this discussion. I'd sooner have a mini 14 if I had to have a mouse gun for personal defense. I think my situation will be very different than everyone else's though, because I'm sure as hell not planning on fighting other people. View Quote You never answered who the hell at Little Creek thinks there's anything redeeming about Mini-14's. |
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Quoted: Sorry fellas, I've seen them go down too often without proper care, I wouldn't trust one without an armory to keep them maintained, at least within the confines of this discussion. I'd sooner have a mini 14 if I had to have a mouse gun for personal defense. I think my situation will be very different than everyone else's though, because I'm sure as hell not planning on fighting other people. View Quote |
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Quoted: Both shoot much smoother than ARs. It’s very noticeable. Scar is just as accurate and probably more reliable too. Tavor is much shorter. Scar stock can fold. Both are piston guns which are cleaner and keep gases away from the action and shooter. Piston ARs do the same and parts are proprietary as well View Quote |
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It's why you carry something that won't need a ton of spare parts. Like an SKS, mini, AK, hell a nice bolt action rifle will probably outlast an AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why would you use a firearm in a SHTF situation that would be hard as hell to scrounge basic replacement parts for including magazines? The AR is probably the easiest rifle you'll ever find to scrounge parts for if you prepped and the SHTF plus the cheapest to stockpile a few parts for. |
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Good. Because you don’t seem to have enough experience with guns to be very good at it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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My point of this post was as a diehard AR fan boy. But with new weapons purchases and experiences in the past few months (B&T, Scar, X95, Aug, XCR) I’m rethinking my go to weapon. It’s not for SHTF itself but for that time when a better weapon may be needed.
I don’t care about cost or availability of parts. I just want the top weapon that won’t fail as easy and will preform exceptionally when needed. And I’m sorry to say it but I’m starting to think there are other weapons I would chose that will put preform the AR in areas like... Compactness Reliability/durability Accuracy Ease of shooting If any of my weapons break while I need it most I won’t be worried about fixing it or finding spare parts. I’m going to put it aside and find another weapon. Hence the reason why I prefer the best and most reliable weapon for the job. The AR is an awesome weapon. But I’m starting to think there are better for the first time in a long time based on my increasing experience w other weapons. If you don’t have experience with other weapons then o don’t think you are qualified to speak on a comparison between the AR and that weapon. So, try this other weapons and maybe you’ll see what I’m saying. For example, rapid fire with the X95 and scar is a lot easier to manage than an AR using the same muzzle devices on each. Putting more lead on n target because of this is very important to me. So, try out other weapons and u may be surprised as I was. That’s all I’m trying to say. |
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Quoted: It's why you carry something that won't need a ton of spare parts. Like an SKS, mini, AK, hell a nice bolt action rifle will probably outlast an AR. View Quote My AR is north of 10,000 rounds and has had 1 malfunction... ever. (first run pmag split down spine and tried to double penetrate my chamber) My AR will shoot flat base handloads sub-moa off a bench with a good shooter (*I* can't do it every time.) It will also dump lead on a paper plate as fast as you can twitch your finger with hardly any bounce. It shoots flat. It runs good with a can. It runs good dirty. It is light and small. It is cheap. It just fucking works. I WANT to like other rifles better, but it is just boringly reliable. It has the good juju. |
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It's why you carry something that won't need a ton of spare parts. Like an SKS, mini, AK, hell a nice bolt action rifle will probably outlast an AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why would you use a firearm in a SHTF situation that would be hard as hell to scrounge basic replacement parts for including magazines? The AR is probably the easiest rifle you'll ever find to scrounge parts for if you prepped and the SHTF plus the cheapest to stockpile a few parts for. When it comes to round count, civilian rifles tend to suck compared to Mil weapons that often shoot more in one engagement then many civilian bolt action rifles will shoot in a lifetime. Even when it comes to Bolt actions, there is a reason military designs tended to be hell for strong as compared to civi bolt action rifles and many high end custom bolt actions were built around a Mil rifle action. As far as accuracy, it's 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other, there just isn't any difference in practical accuracy anymore between a quality AR and a bolt action. Can't say that when it comes to sustained rate of fire and reloading speed. |
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Quoted: A lot of people seem to think it'll be hordes of bad guys and extended firefights with their AR, and they'll emerge victorious, saving their family and their dog atop a mountain of brass. The truth is, they'll he taken out with a single '06 round from Bob the hunter at 300 yards, out hiding under some garbage within 5 minutes. View Quote |
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It's why you carry something that won't need a ton of spare parts. Like an SKS, mini, AK, hell a nice bolt action rifle will probably outlast an AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why would you use a firearm in a SHTF situation that would be hard as hell to scrounge basic replacement parts for including magazines? The AR is probably the easiest rifle you'll ever find to scrounge parts for if you prepped and the SHTF plus the cheapest to stockpile a few parts for. By the time you need to replace the bolt on your AR (a $60 drop in replacement part), many AKs will have shot their trunnions loose. SKSs and Mini-14's break parts too. Mags are often the first thing to break. AR mags are cheap and can be found anywhere. |
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My point of this post was as a diehard AR fan boy. But with new weapons purchases and experiences in the past few months (B&T, Scar, X95, Aug, XCR) I'm rethinking my go to weapon. It's not for SHTF itself but for that time when a better weapon may be needed. I don't care about cost or availability of parts. I just want the top weapon that won't fail as easy and will preform exceptionally when needed. And I'm sorry to say it but I'm starting to think there are other weapons I would chose that will put preform the AR in areas like... Compactness Reliability/durability Accuracy Ease of shooting If any of my weapons break while I need it most I won't be worried about fixing it or finding spare parts. I'm going to put it aside and find another weapon. Hence the reason why I prefer the best and most reliable weapon for the job. The AR is an awesome weapon. But I'm starting to think there are better for the first time in a long time based on my increasing experience w other weapons. If you don't have experience with other weapons then o don't think you are qualified to speak on a comparison between the AR and that weapon. So, try this other weapons and maybe you'll see what I'm saying. For example, rapid fire with the X95 and scar is a lot easier to manage than an AR using the same muzzle devices on each. Putting more lead on n target because of this is very important to me. So, try out other weapons and u may be surprised as I was. That's all I'm trying to say. View Quote AR is the best all-around fighting rifle in circulation, period. And it's hugely reliable with even basic maintenance done competently. |
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Quoted: Yep. A good AK is hard to beat. Even a mini 14 will be superior to an AR in shtf. A lot of people seem to think it'll be hordes of bad guys and extended firefights with their AR, and they'll emerge victorious, saving their family and their dog atop a mountain of brass. The truth is, they'll he taken out with a single '06 round from Bob the hunter at 300 yards, out hiding under some garbage within 5 minutes. View Quote |
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I stopped reading right here:
I'm a 28-year Green Beret veteran View Quote |
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I've had low use factory built sks and ak fail. My AR is north of 10,000 rounds and has had 1 malfunction... ever. (first run pmag split down spine and tried to double penetrate my chamber) My AR will shoot flat base handloads sub-moa off a bench with a good shooter (*I* can't do it every time.) It will also dump lead on a paper plate as fast as you can twitch your finger with hardly any bounce. It shoots flat. It runs good with a can. It runs good dirty. It is light and small. It is cheap. It just fucking works. I WANT to like other rifles better, but it is just boringly reliable. It has the good juju. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I've had low use factory built sks and ak fail. My AR is north of 10,000 rounds and has had 1 malfunction... ever. (first run pmag split down spine and tried to double penetrate my chamber) My AR will shoot flat base handloads sub-moa off a bench with a good shooter (*I* can't do it every time.) It will also dump lead on a paper plate as fast as you can twitch your finger with hardly any bounce. It shoots flat. It runs good with a can. It runs good dirty. It is light and small. It is cheap. It just fucking works. I WANT to like other rifles better, but it is just boringly reliable. It has the good juju. I've never experienced any of this with an AK, SKS or mini 14. Maybe Im just unlucky/lucky I've had 10/22s fail, yet Marlin 60s just run and run. I abuse the fuck out of my guns. They're tools, not safe queens and internet gun porn. Hell I've had a Blackhawk 44 go tits up on me. And I know they're built like tanks. Out here in the rough, not a shooting range or your back yard shit just breaks, and I want to stick with what works for me, because believe it or not, sometimes my life depends in it even now. Quoted: Name a centerfire bolt action civilian hunting rifle that will hold up to tens of thousands of rounds without breakage. When it comes to round count, civilian rifles tend to suck compared to Mil weapons that often shoot more in one engagement then many civilian bolt action rifles will shoot in a lifetime. Even when it comes to Bolt actions, there is a reason military designs tended to be hell for strong as compared to civi bolt action rifles and many high end custom bolt actions were built around a Mil rifle action. As far as accuracy, it's 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other, there just isn't any difference in practical accuracy anymore between a quality AR and a bolt action. Can't say that when it comes to sustained rate of fire and reloading speed. |
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Ok, I always thought M16s and M4s were military full autos and ARs were semi autos. Strange that the author mentioned using AR15s in the military and not M16s etc. However the whole article was strange, so I guess it makes sense???
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Putting aside all the stupid shit in that article, we all talk about "whats best for SHTF" as if we all have a mutual understanding of what "SHTF" means.
SHTF in the sense that five drug addicts break into your house and try to kidnap you so they can sacrifice you to whatever alien god they're hallucinating about on their psychedelics? SHTF in the sense of regional civil unrest where you have to hunker down for a week and wait for the police and national guard to clear out hoards of rioters? SHTF in the sense of a foreign country invading American soil and having to fight and avoid foreign troops while you try to retreat your family to safe territory? SHTF in the sense of a zombie apocalypse where over half the world's human population has been converted to cannibal monsters and the entire concept of civilization is a thing of the past? How you decide what's best will vary quite a lot depending on what "SHTF" means. |
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I have a had time believing a simple, and well built rifle like a 223 rem 700 or a higher dollar 3k+ rifle will fail, lock up, or malfunction before an AR in the same caliber. Bolts are just very simplistic designs. View Quote I've replaced several Remington 700 extractors that failed under normal (hunting) use. I don't think modern bolt actions (even the 3k+ ones) can achieve the MRBF you think they can. (Bolt guns also present a greater probability of user error during operation). Note that USSOCOM specified a MRBF of only 1,000 rounds for their Precision Sniper Rifle (PSR) program, under which the Remington MSR (bolt-action) won the contract. Even if both action types were completely reliable, the AR would still be the better general-purpose weapon. |
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Sorry fellas, I've seen them go down too often without proper care, I wouldn't trust one without an armory to keep them maintained, at least within the confines of this discussion. I'd sooner have a mini 14 if I had to have a mouse gun for personal defense. I think my situation will be very different than everyone else's though, because I'm sure as hell not planning on fighting other people. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Lol I'd sooner have a mini 14 if I had to have a mouse gun for personal defense. I think my situation will be very different than everyone else's though, because I'm sure as hell not planning on fighting other people. Prove me wrong. |
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Author of that shit is retarded and everything he wrote doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
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I've had a gas key crack, I've had two firing pins break, I've had my rifle malfunction due to lack of cleaning. I've never experienced any of this with an AK, SKS or mini 14. Maybe Im just unlucky/lucky I've had 10/22s fail, yet Marlin 60s just run and run. I abuse the fuck out of my guns. They're tools, not safe queens and internet gun porn. Hell I've had a Blackhawk 44 go tits up on me. And I know they're built like tanks. Out here in the rough, not a shooting range or your back yard shit just breaks, and I want to stick with what works for me, because believe it or not, sometimes my life depends in it even now. I have a had time believing a simple, and well built rifle like a 223 rem 700 or a higher dollar 3k+ rifle will fail, lock up, or malfunction before an AR in the same caliber. Bolts are just very simplistic designs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've had low use factory built sks and ak fail. My AR is north of 10,000 rounds and has had 1 malfunction... ever. (first run pmag split down spine and tried to double penetrate my chamber) My AR will shoot flat base handloads sub-moa off a bench with a good shooter (*I* can't do it every time.) It will also dump lead on a paper plate as fast as you can twitch your finger with hardly any bounce. It shoots flat. It runs good with a can. It runs good dirty. It is light and small. It is cheap. It just fucking works. I WANT to like other rifles better, but it is just boringly reliable. It has the good juju. I've never experienced any of this with an AK, SKS or mini 14. Maybe Im just unlucky/lucky I've had 10/22s fail, yet Marlin 60s just run and run. I abuse the fuck out of my guns. They're tools, not safe queens and internet gun porn. Hell I've had a Blackhawk 44 go tits up on me. And I know they're built like tanks. Out here in the rough, not a shooting range or your back yard shit just breaks, and I want to stick with what works for me, because believe it or not, sometimes my life depends in it even now. Quoted: Name a centerfire bolt action civilian hunting rifle that will hold up to tens of thousands of rounds without breakage. When it comes to round count, civilian rifles tend to suck compared to Mil weapons that often shoot more in one engagement then many civilian bolt action rifles will shoot in a lifetime. Even when it comes to Bolt actions, there is a reason military designs tended to be hell for strong as compared to civi bolt action rifles and many high end custom bolt actions were built around a Mil rifle action. As far as accuracy, it's 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other, there just isn't any difference in practical accuracy anymore between a quality AR and a bolt action. Can't say that when it comes to sustained rate of fire and reloading speed. Basically, stop buying junk parts and figure out what “lube” is and those failures don’t happen. |
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My point of this post was as a diehard AR fan boy. But with new weapons purchases and experiences in the past few months (B&T, Scar, X95, Aug, XCR) I'm rethinking my go to weapon. It's not for SHTF itself but for that time when a better weapon may be needed. That better weapon will end up being an AR based rifle. I don't care about cost or availability of parts. I just want the top weapon that won't fail as easy and will preform exceptionally when needed. M-16/ AR-15 has proven that in decades of war and police use around the world. And I'm sorry to say it but I'm starting to think there are other weapons I would chose that will put preform the AR in areas like... Compactness Reliability/durability Accuracy Ease of shooting You can think that all you want, but look at what's dropping bodies the most. If any of my weapons break while I need it most I won't be worried about fixing it or finding spare parts. I'm going to put it aside and find another weapon. Hence the reason why I prefer the best and most reliable weapon for the job. Read that sentence again and assume someone else is reading it, and you'll see how little sense it makes. The AR is an awesome weapon. But I'm starting to think there are better for the first time in a long time based on my increasing experience w other weapons. Start shooting three gun with your other weapons, then your AR, post results. If you don't have experience with other weapons then o don't think you are qualified to speak on a comparison between the AR and that weapon. Glad I have a lot of experience with other weapons! So, try this other weapons and maybe you'll see what I'm saying. For example, rapid fire with the X95 and scar is a lot easier to manage than an AR using the same muzzle devices on each. I can do sub .15 splits with AR's all day long and stay accurate, what are your split times on the X95 and SCAR vs the AR with teh same muzzle device? Putting more lead on n target because of this is very important to me. cases of ammo and good practice will make your put more lead on target, not trying to buy your way into vs a different gun. So, try out other weapons and u may be surprised as I was. That's all I'm trying to say. Sounds like you're just in the honeymoon faze with other guns. View Quote |
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Bullshit. You get that BCG into the buffer tube & jammed at the lucking lugs with something like a popped primer or similar. Your ass is doing NOTHING in the field with that gun without some actual tools. Gun won't even hinge open at that point...Tap, rack, bang ain't fixing that shit. Possibly same if something gets into the FCG, you'll be disassembling the entire FCG to get whatever jammed it up out of there. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Horseshit. Basic "keep the gun running" maintenance requires the same stuff with an AK or an AR. More advanced "change or replace parts" maintenance for the AR requires a hell of a lot less specialized equipment than the AK. You get that BCG into the buffer tube & jammed at the lucking lugs with something like a popped primer or similar. Your ass is doing NOTHING in the field with that gun without some actual tools. Gun won't even hinge open at that point...Tap, rack, bang ain't fixing that shit. Possibly same if something gets into the FCG, you'll be disassembling the entire FCG to get whatever jammed it up out of there. |
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Quoted: I've had a gas key crack, I've had two firing pins break, I've had my rifle malfunction due to lack of cleaning. I've never experienced any of this with an AK, SKS or mini 14. Maybe Im just unlucky/lucky I've had 10/22s fail, yet Marlin 60s just run and run. I abuse the fuck out of my guns. They're tools, not safe queens and internet gun porn. Hell I've had a Blackhawk 44 go tits up on me. And I know they're built like tanks. Out here in the rough, not a shooting range or your back yard shit just breaks, and I want to stick with what works for me, because believe it or not, sometimes my life depends in it even now. I have a had time believing a simple, and well built rifle like a 223 rem 700 or a higher dollar 3k+ rifle will fail, lock up, or malfunction before an AR in the same caliber. Bolts are just very simplistic designs. View Quote |
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Quoted: I've had a gas key crack, I've had two firing pins break, I've had my rifle malfunction due to lack of cleaning. Allow me to be of assistance... 1. Start taking better care of your shit. I've never experienced any of this with an AK, SKS or mini 14. Maybe Im just unlucky/lucky Yes, you are and that "luck of yours will change with the choices cited, particularly with your admitted practices I've had 10/22s fail, yet Marlin 60s just run and run. I abuse the fuck out of my guns. They're tools, not safe queens and internet gun porn. Hell I've had a Blackhawk 44 go tits up on me. And I know they're built like tanks. Brownie points are not awarded to those equating abusing the fuck out of a tool as using it properly Out here in the rough, not a shooting range or your back yard shit just breaks, and I want to stick with what works for me, because believe it or not, sometimes my life depends in it even now. a=...and now you've spoken from both sides of your mouth, conceding that shit happens (ATV accidents, packs going into freefall down an embankment, or any number of non use-related mishaps that could damage or destroy a stock, barrel or other vital component. Feel free to use a Hi-pernt because you shoot better with it, but please opt the fuck out of the debate society when people cite ease of replacement as leading influence to their choice. It is abundantly clear you haven't thought this though I have a had time believing a simple, and well built rifle like a 223 rem 700 or a higher dollar 3k+ rifle will fail, lock up, or malfunction before an AR in the same caliber. Bolts are just very simplistic designs. View Quote |
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